Understanding better the sexuality within marriage

[Tele]

Hello! I’have just married my husband and we are uncertain about the problem of sexuality. In what concerns the women (me, but there are also many others) that have irregular menstruations, what should be the proper way in which we could have normal family relations? I mean I cannot calculate my fertile/infertile periods. This happens since a long time. And I understood that there is hard to solve this problem before 1 year or 2 or so. This means that we cannot have sexual relations 2 years from? I think it absurd because the purpose of sexuality is not only the procreation(which we cannot think of now, because we still are both students) but also the communion of the two husbands. I mean, this is not a tenporary problem, this will be the case all our lives because one cannot afford to bear pregnancy after pregnancy. My question would be: is there any exception from the use or contraception or should we avoid sexuality some years from now?
I have one more question, as a young wife : ok, coitus interruptus is not allowed and masturbation also. But in having relationships with your wives/husbands do you have a complete sexual act? I mean, even if I knew my infertile periods, this would be very stressful for me to know that there was a complete sexual act and every month I would expect to be pregnant, because everyone knows that the infertile periods are very relative. I mean, I would better avoid making sex at all than conceiving a child when I don’t have the means to raise him.

 

[PaulGH]

Natural Family Planning (NFP) works for most women, even if their periods are irregular. My wife has periods ranging from 27 days to over 40 days, and we have used NFP successfully to avoid pregnancy during times when we have had a serious reason to avoid pregnancy.

There are several different NFP methods, which you can learn about by searching on this forum for NFP or Natural Family Planning. Some of the available NFP methods are Creighton, Billings, Sympto-Thermal, and Marquette. You can also contact your diocese or search online to find NFP teaching couples or NFP classes in your area. It would be best to take a class, but you can learn from a book if necessary.

 

[Snowball7]

If you get pregnant, God will provide.

Do not fear.

 

[oldfashcathgirl]

If you get pregnant, God will provide.

Do not fear.

Yes!!! also take an NFP class as was posted before…
Know that children are the fruit of your love for your husband, and his love for you Trust God’s plan.

 

[ricofall]

Truthfully, if you are having sex, you should always be open to life. If you do not want to have children, avoid sex completely. My wife and I once avoided sex for a few months until she got her regular cycle back to practice NFP. However, we also understand if she became pregnant, we will be ok with that as well.

 

[mrs_ahs]

Natural Family Planning (NFP) works for most women, even if their periods are irregular. My wife has periods ranging from 27 days to over 40 days, and we have used NFP successfully to avoid pregnancy during times when we have had a serious reason to avoid pregnancy.

There are several different NFP methods, which you can learn about by searching on this forum for NFP or Natural Family Planning. Some of the available NFP methods are Creighton, Billings, Sympto-Thermal, and Marquette. You can also contact your diocese or search online to find NFP teaching couples or NFP classes in your area. It would be best to take a class, but you can learn from a book if necessary.

Exactly. Long or irregular cycles do not in any way preclude the successful use of NFP. Rhythm method will not work well with irregular cycles, but that is completely different from NFP.

OP, please take an NFP class with your husband.

 

[mrs_ahs]

Truthfully, if you are having sex, you should always be open to life. ** If you do not want to have children, avoid sex completely**. My wife and I once avoided sex for a few months until she got her regular cycle back to practice NFP. However, we also understand if she became pregnant, we will be ok with that as well.

That is why those who practice NFP **don’t have sex **during the fertile time. While total abstinence is acceptable as a personal choice, it is NOT binding on Catholics. Please do not present it as such. Periodic continence is equally acceptable and is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality and preserves the dignity of each marital act as well as representing a form of responsible parenthood. Each couple is responsible for discerning family planning (within the confines of morality) in their own marriage.

 

[Tele]

Thanks for the answers. Ok, but I understood also that this method doesn’t work on irregular cycles, I mean the temperature and other symptoms change when you have unequal cycles. . And not having sex at all, as you suggested, would be a variant for me, for medical reasons, let’s say. But what should I tell my husband, I mean, we are just married and you know, as a normal man, he expected this from me, and now I should tell him… well, sorry…
Such kind of courses don’t exist in my diocese(but i have learnt them by myself), in fact, I feel that I am somehow alone in this, even my catholic friends use contraception and as I go to a gynecologyst i am criticized for not using protection.
Well but that is something else. Im of course open to life but I really couldn’t afford it now. Me and my husband have no income and will not have 2 years from now, it;s not that easy.
And please give me an answer also to the part with ‘a complete sexual act’. I know that is more delicate, but I need to know. Thank you all!

 

[ricofall]

That is why those who practice NFP **don’t have sex **during the fertile time. While total abstinence is acceptable as a personal choice, it is NOT binding on Catholics. Please do not present it as such. Periodic continence is equally acceptable and is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality and preserves the dignity of each marital act as well as representing a form of responsible parenthood. Each couple is responsible for discerning family planning (within the confines of morality) in their own marriage.

Sorry but I am not sure how I presented as binding? I stated a fact that having sex has the potential to make babies. If you want to absolutely avoid making babies, do not have sex (as we used to tell teenagers)

 

[PaulGH]

Ok, but I understood also that this method doesn’t work on irregular cycles, I mean the temperature and other symptoms change when you have unequal cycles.

Based on what my wife and I have learned about NFP, from reading several books and from our own experience, what you have stated here is incorrect. NFP **does **work for irregular cycles.

My wife and I use the Billings method of NFP, which is a mucus-only method (no taking temperatures), and we find that the mucus comes when she is fertile, and is absent when she is not fertile, regardless of whether her fertility comes on day 15 or day 20 or day 25. (I am oversimplifying a little about the mucus to make my point, so make sure you read a book or preferably take a class to know exactly what kind of mucus to look for, when to abstain, etc.)

Here are some links that might be helpful if you want to learn more about NFP:

thebillingsovulationmethod.org/
nfpandmore.org/
onemoresoul.com/
fertilitycare.org/
nfp.marquette.edu/
ccli.org/

By the way, what country are you in (if you don’t mind answering)? With that information, someone might be able to recommend classes or doctors closer to you.

 

[PaulGH]

I have one more question, as a young wife : ok, coitus interruptus is not allowed and masturbation also. But in having relationships with your wives/husbands do you have a complete sexual act? I mean, even if I knew my infertile periods, this would be very stressful for me to know that there was a complete sexual act and every month I would expect to be pregnant, because everyone knows that the infertile periods are very relative. I mean, I would better avoid making sex at all than conceiving a child when I don’t have the means to raise him.

You are correct about the part that I put in bold. You know that those things are not allowed. So yes, that means that a sexual act must be completed in the normal way; it cannot be incomplete. And yes, husbands and wives should be intimate in that way, unless there is some serious reason not to be.

It sounds like you are so scared of pregnancy that you are afraid to have relations even during times when you know you are infertile. I can understand that, but I don’t think that you need to have that fear if you are well-trained in NFP and if you are following the rules of NFP. It is very much possible for a husband and wife to have intercourse multiple times per month while using NFP, while still knowing that the chance of getting pregnant is very close to zero. (At least that is true for most couples, but there could be exceptions, as some women’s fertility signs are more difficult to interpret.)

And as others have said, if you do have a baby, have faith in God! He will not abandon you!

 

[mrs_ahs]

Ok, maybe I misunderstood you. I apologize if I did. The way you gave this instruction to the OP: “If you do not want to have children, avoid sex completely.” really rubbed me the wrong way.

 

[mrs_ahs]

Thanks for the answers. Ok, but I understood also that this method doesn’t work on irregular cycles, I mean the temperature and other symptoms change when you have unequal cycles. . And not having sex at all, as you suggested, would be a variant for me, for medical reasons, let’s say. But what should I tell my husband, I mean, we are just married and you know, as a normal man, he expected this from me, and now I should tell him… well, sorry…
Such kind of courses don’t exist in my diocese(but i have learnt them by myself), in fact, I feel that I am somehow alone in this, even my catholic friends use contraception and as I go to a gynecologyst i am criticized for not using protection.
Well but that is something else. Im of course open to life but I really couldn’t afford it now. Me and my husband have no income and will not have 2 years from now, it;s not that easy.
And please give me an answer also to the part with ‘a complete sexual act’. I know that is more delicate, but I need to know. Thank you all!

If you believe that NFP does not work on irregular cycles, I find it hard to believe that you have had any NFP instrutction at all. And I don’t mean that in an offensive way. But that is one of the first things you will learn in any NFP class, or by reading any NFP book. NFP does work successfully with irregular cycles. The rhythm method, which is based on the calendar, assuming that your cycles will always be the same, is ineffective when cycles are not regular. NFP looks at the signs your body gives you in each individual cycle to determine your fertility and infertility. Cervical mucus appears more fertile as your body approaches ovulation. Your basal temperature goes up after ovulation, regardless of whether it is day 10 or day 40. For example, I am on cycle day 31 and my cycles are irregular because I recently had a baby and am breastfeeding. I have not yet ovulated this cycle, but I am approaching peak. My temp is still low. It should go up in a couple of days. Normally I peak on day 15 and have a temp rise within a couple of days after that.

Many methods have online instruction and you can even sometimes find an experienced instructor that will speak with you via phone or email to help you learn the method. Saying that NFP doesn’t work with irregular cycles does not make sense to me. Maybe you could explain more what you mean? I strongly suggest that you take a class ASAP, with your husband. I think things will become much clearer for you if you do so. You say that you are self taught - what method did you learn?

 

[ahs]

Thanks for the answers. Ok, but I understood also that this method doesn’t work on irregular cycles, I mean the temperature and other symptoms change when you have unequal cycles. . And not having sex at all, as you suggested, would be a variant for me, for medical reasons, let’s say.

I think this has been covered very thoroughly so far.

But what should I tell my husband, I mean, we are just married and you know, as a normal man, he expected this from me, and now I should tell him… well, sorry…

It’s a cross to bear, so to speak. When you were married, you vowed to lovingly accept children, I assume? For better and for worse, right? Marriage, by its very nature, is ordered toward the begetting and upbringing of children…toward family. But, now you find yourselves in a situation where you need to avoid begetting for right now. Well, the only morally right way to do that is to not have sex…and when you DO have sex, it must be morally ordered toward its purpose…it must be done the natural way. No one can tell you what to tell your husband…that’s something you and he will have to work on.

… Im of course open to life but I really couldn’t afford it now. Me and my husband have no income and will not have 2 years from now, it;s not that easy.

Then you options are to abstain from sex when you want to avoid conception, and to be open to the possibility of conception (by completing the sex act in the natural way) when you DO have sex. NFP is a great tool for helping you here, as others have posted.

And please give me an answer also to the part with ‘a complete sexual act’. I know that is more delicate, but I need to know. Thank you all! (ok, coitus interruptus is not allowed and masturbation also. But in having relationships with your wives/husbands do you have a complete sexual act?)

I’m not really sure what you mean by this…are you asking if you can begin the sex act and them stop before climax?

There are things to consider here. You need to know what is meant by “masturbation” and what is meant by “conjugal love”. I recommend you get a Catechism of the Catholic Church if you don’t already have one and study these areas. Each sex act/conjugal union must be ordered, per se, toward procreation (and unification).

You also need to understand what your limits are. Kissing and hugging and petting…“foreplay” so to speak…where do you draw the line between kissing to express a kiss, or kissing to “gear up” for sex. If you are “gearing up” for sex and then stop…aren’t you making it harder on yourself and your husband…if you start off knowing that you will not be completing a sexual act?

In short…I don’t really know what to tell you here…you should study your catechism. My latest memory tells me that you may NOT begin intercourse (penis inside vagina) and then stop as a means to prevent conception. But I cannot find the source for this so I won’t claim it just yet.

 

[Tele]

There are things to consider here. You need to know what is meant by “masturbation” and what is meant by “conjugal love”. I recommend you get a Catechism of the Catholic Church if you don’t already have one and study these areas. ** Each sex act/conjugal union must be ordered, per se, toward procreation (and unification).**

Thanks you all for your answers.
In what concerns what I put in bold, I don’t know if I agree with that. You say that each sex act must be ordered towards procreation. Then, I am asking myself, why do we use our infertile days if our purpose must be to procreate?
Please do not send me all of you towards the Cathechism, I have indeed read it but it;s because some things are not so clear to me that I came here with my answers.
I mean, our purpose is not to procreate, this is what we want when we use these periods, so inside us we should still be open to make a baby, is that what you wanted to say?
About the term ‘masturbation’ I understand it very well… when I used it I had in mind the very common case when(sorry for being direct) the husband and wife have not an orgasm in the same time. So that sexual act whoulld it be wrong only because it was not a ‘complete sexual act’? or complete refers only to what the man is doing? Sorry again for the language, but I try to put it as clear as possible.
Thanks again

 

[Zekariya]

God decides who conceives. God chooses to create a human in His timing (there are no accidental pregnancies even when conceived by rape). Trust God.

 

[ricofall]

There are things to consider here. You need to know what is meant by “masturbation” and what is meant by “conjugal love”. I recommend you get a Catechism of the Catholic Church if you don’t already have one and study these areas. ** Each sex act/conjugal union must be ordered, per se, toward procreation (and unification).******

When you have sex, it must be open to life. However, it does not need to create life with each act. NFP is a form of natural birth control since you are using it to avoid pregnancy. Whereas using the pill or a condom prevents pregnancy thru killing the egg, and blocking sperm, etc.

 

[Zekariya]

When you have sex, it must be open to life. However, it does not need to create life with each act. NFP is a form of natural birth control since you are using it to avoid pregnancy. Whereas using the pill or a condom prevents pregnancy thru killing the egg, and blocking sperm, etc.

I just want to clarify if that’s okay, condoms (though morally very sinful) do not kill the unborn. The pill, however, does kill the unborn.

 

[Em_in_FL]

There are things to consider here. You need to know what is meant by “masturbation” and what is meant by “conjugal love”. I recommend you get a Catechism of the Catholic Church if you don’t already have one and study these areas. ** Each sex act/conjugal union must be ordered, per se, toward procreation (and unification).**

Thanks you all for your answers.
In what concerns what I put in bold, I don’t know if I agree with that. You say that each sex act must be ordered towards procreation. Then, I am asking myself, why do we use our infertile days if our purpose must be to procreate?
Please do not send me all of you towards the Cathechism, I have indeed read it but it;s because some things are not so clear to me that I came here with my answers.
I mean, our purpose is not to procreate, this is what we want when we use these periods, so inside us we should still be open to make a baby, is that what you wanted to say?
About the term ‘masturbation’ I understand it very well… when I used it I had in mind the very common case when(sorry for being direct) the husband and wife have not an orgasm in the same time. So that sexual act whoulld it be wrong only because it was not a ‘complete sexual act’? or complete refers only to what the man is doing? Sorry again for the language, but I try to put it as clear as possible.
Thanks again

This is a complete misunderstanding of the meaning.
We know, both from science and our faith, that sex has two purposes - both to unite the couple and to procreate.
We also know, both from science and our faith, that not every single sex act will actually produce children (this is the term procreation) because the woman is not ALWAYS fertile (she cycles in and out of fertility every month).

However, the church does not insist that every single act of sex MUST be done ONLY in the fertile time…
Therefore we must re-look at the meanings and definitions of what the church is teaching.

The church teaches that every sexual act must be unitive and procreative.
“Procreative” is an adverb that describes how the verb “sex” is performed.
It says NOTHING about the FERTILITY of the woman at that point in time.

Each and every sex act must be performed (“ordered toward”) in a way that COULD bring about life (all depending on the woman’s fertility whether it actually does!)…
Therefore - this fully answers all your questions… this is why masturbation and coitus interruptus is also not allowed… these are sexual actions that could not bring about life, regardless of the woman’s fertility.

So the complete layman’s answer… for each sexual act to be both unitive and procreative… the husband must finish inside the wife.

This allows for NFP (which DEFINITELY DOES WORK WITH IRREGULAR CYCLES!!) because the act is still performed in the right way (remember, fertility isn’t part of that moral equation).

Hope that helps!

 

[Rico_S]

When you have sex, it must be open to life. .

No

Church says it must be ordered toward procreation. Since I don’t think most people’s understanding of “open to life” = “ordered toward procreation,” it is a poor phrase to use when talking about the procreative aspect of the sex. Granted, it is used frequently, but it is used incorrectly and serves only to confuse people.