C
cathdoki
Guest
What is fake?
- Status
E
elwill
Guest
spiritual feeling toward specific relegion dosn’t make this relegion true
C
cathdoki
Guest
Elwill, you are absolutely correct. That’s why Christianity has the only TRUE and MOST COMPLETE Word of God to rely on.
E
elwill
Guest
offcourse , i agree with you
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Elwill,
I have the impression that the Islamic view of Allah is that He is sovereign…but do Muslims experience the intimacy in Christ that I have shared? This inner experience is the same among Christians throughout the world. So to have such a common universal experience in Christ is not fake…if that is what you are referring to…
I am saying my impression of the Islamic view of God is more distant, does not connect with every human being…Christ is represented in every person and truly it is something we must renew every day and throughout the day…I see Islam does categorize people.
There are people who just do not relate to the Church or the Church’s definition of Christ, but do practice good will to others, and in this way, also works towards salvation. This is from Vatican II. Jesus said He is the way, the truth and the life. He also said that those who eat His body and blood in the Eucharist will have eternal life.
When it comes to Christ, only He can judge.
I have the impression that the Islamic view of Allah is that He is sovereign…but do Muslims experience the intimacy in Christ that I have shared? This inner experience is the same among Christians throughout the world. So to have such a common universal experience in Christ is not fake…if that is what you are referring to…
I am saying my impression of the Islamic view of God is more distant, does not connect with every human being…Christ is represented in every person and truly it is something we must renew every day and throughout the day…I see Islam does categorize people.
There are people who just do not relate to the Church or the Church’s definition of Christ, but do practice good will to others, and in this way, also works towards salvation. This is from Vatican II. Jesus said He is the way, the truth and the life. He also said that those who eat His body and blood in the Eucharist will have eternal life.
When it comes to Christ, only He can judge.
E
elwill
Guest
may be i misrepresented my point , may i misundertood you
whatever , i’m not sure what inner experience which is the same among christians in the world , may be i need more details about what you meant
J
John_Paul_Jones
Guest
Jesus isn’t a communist. A communist is a person who describes himself in regard to his belief in a political system, yes more importantly he is human being. But the fact a communist is a human and Jesus has a human nature doesn’t make Him a communist. What communist believes in, Communism, is doctrine that has many errors in it. Jesus is complete Truth and Communism isn’t. The fact a person calls himself a communist is an indictation that he is in the need of Truth, like a person who says he is thirsty needs a drink. A Christian if he is to respect the communist as if he is a person in need, like a person who thirst, the Christian must admonish the communist, and show the errors in his ways, or prayer for them.
The same for other religions as with communism. People call themselves Protestant muslim, atheist, agnostic, communist or socialist etc because of what they believe in, but what a people describes themselves because of what they believe in and who they are are two different things. However it’s true, one should treat every person dispite what they describe themselves as a human being.
Jesus is not that contradicts Him. So if a person describes himself because he believes in something that not from Christ, the best thing is speak the truth and after that it is up to that person (of a particular religion) to accept or reject; and you have to respect that he has free will.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Again, I am not referring to a person’s conviction. I am referring to the basic condition of a human being. We all need food, clothing, water, love, meaning to life.
Just because a person is a communist, let’s say, doesn’t mean I mistreat him. Because he does have a soul, he was made in the image of God, and so I am to treat my neighbor accordingly.
There are communists in China who will not leave the party but are becoming Christians!!
Just because a person is a communist, let’s say, doesn’t mean I mistreat him. Because he does have a soul, he was made in the image of God, and so I am to treat my neighbor accordingly.
There are communists in China who will not leave the party but are becoming Christians!!
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Elwill,
What I am showing you is one person’s experience as a Christian who happens to be a priest. We have spiritual groups where we read materials and then share our reflections with one another…Reflections can also be called contemplation if they are done not just intellectually but in prayer seeking to become closer to God.
Also when I was referring to Mother Theresa, yes it might look fake. She was a religious, left ‘the world’ to serve Christ in the poor. That was the direction of her mission so you would not have experienced that.
We have to live, work, and deal with every day life issues. So we do not have the complete focus of Christ on our work like a priest or vowed religious does. So for lay people it is a struggle.
Many of us are turning to the Prayer of the Church, another name, the Liturgy of the Hours, or the Divine Office. All the same. Here is the same text priests, sisters and brothers use. Those in monastery pray 7 times a day. Mohammed came across ascetic Christians who prayed throughout the day. Again, these are people who left the world to be with God alone. I read St. John Climacus of the Desert Fathers in Syria. I don’t recall how old his text is.
I am interested in Carmelite and Franciscan spiritualities…The Carmelites trace their desert experience back to Elijah on the Mountain of Mt Carmel.
Today we see the Mountain as the Lord…climbing the Mountain of the Lord to be in union with Him…some see the mountain representing our sins…we have to climb over our sins to reach Christ. “Mary of Mt Carmel, be our guide and help in climbing the Holy Mountain of the Lord, Jesus Christ”.
I think sharing actual experiences with Muslims may help more.
And if you don’t quite understand our experience, that is the point.
We are coming out of a different experience with God in Christ of Whom you venerate as Prophet. We also see Him as Son of Man, Son of God, True Man and True God…how the Father through the dimension or personhood of the Spirit, also becomes one with us.
I went to a Jewish synagogue for service for a client’s Bat Mitzvah, a young girl. The Jews were shocked when I said I experienced God there…but His dimension was so ancient, He was overlooking His people. It was the same sense I got of Him in my church, but through Jesus God becomes ‘today’ and sweet and makes me happy and free. That is what Christ does for me, as well as heal me of all my transgression and help me to be good and not fight.
What I am showing you is one person’s experience as a Christian who happens to be a priest. We have spiritual groups where we read materials and then share our reflections with one another…Reflections can also be called contemplation if they are done not just intellectually but in prayer seeking to become closer to God.
Also when I was referring to Mother Theresa, yes it might look fake. She was a religious, left ‘the world’ to serve Christ in the poor. That was the direction of her mission so you would not have experienced that.
We have to live, work, and deal with every day life issues. So we do not have the complete focus of Christ on our work like a priest or vowed religious does. So for lay people it is a struggle.
Many of us are turning to the Prayer of the Church, another name, the Liturgy of the Hours, or the Divine Office. All the same. Here is the same text priests, sisters and brothers use. Those in monastery pray 7 times a day. Mohammed came across ascetic Christians who prayed throughout the day. Again, these are people who left the world to be with God alone. I read St. John Climacus of the Desert Fathers in Syria. I don’t recall how old his text is.
I am interested in Carmelite and Franciscan spiritualities…The Carmelites trace their desert experience back to Elijah on the Mountain of Mt Carmel.
Today we see the Mountain as the Lord…climbing the Mountain of the Lord to be in union with Him…some see the mountain representing our sins…we have to climb over our sins to reach Christ. “Mary of Mt Carmel, be our guide and help in climbing the Holy Mountain of the Lord, Jesus Christ”.
I think sharing actual experiences with Muslims may help more.
And if you don’t quite understand our experience, that is the point.
We are coming out of a different experience with God in Christ of Whom you venerate as Prophet. We also see Him as Son of Man, Son of God, True Man and True God…how the Father through the dimension or personhood of the Spirit, also becomes one with us.
I went to a Jewish synagogue for service for a client’s Bat Mitzvah, a young girl. The Jews were shocked when I said I experienced God there…but His dimension was so ancient, He was overlooking His people. It was the same sense I got of Him in my church, but through Jesus God becomes ‘today’ and sweet and makes me happy and free. That is what Christ does for me, as well as heal me of all my transgression and help me to be good and not fight.
E
elwill
Guest
thank you for your patience with me Kathleene , i appreciate that
i was confused because of two question you asked through your post
the first question was “do Muslims experience the intimacy in Christ that I have shared”
we muslims loves the christ jesus and mosas and abraham and all prophets of God , we don’t believe that he is God as you believe and consequently we havn’t the same experience you had about him
secondly you said
“This inner experience is the same among Christians throughout the world”.
this statment confused me much , in which authoruty you claim that inner experience is the same among christians , so that i though may be i misunderstanding your point , as for we know that many christians actually have inner conflicts about thier beliefs
anyway , i read great islamic article here , may be you can find the answer of your question within it , i don’t know !
let us start from there and inform me your comments
islam101.com/sociology/spiritualPath.htm
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Thanks Elwill for your response.
We Christians who have fellowship with each other can share like experiences in how the Lord has helped us over come things in our life.
There is a book put out by Rick Warren, ‘On the Purpose Driven Life’ a few years ago. My protestant neighbors invited those of us to come. I went through the whole book and basically agreed with it. Many times where people differ is in how we worship. So the author said you all have your own places of worship.
So the Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans/Episcopalians and Lutherans have liturgies. The rest of the Protestants do not have liturgies but some or no ritual and have teachings on the Scriptures. Many times their worship space is very simple. Those of us who have liturgies have altars and symbolic art that also teach various topics of Scripture.
This split from worship goes back to the schism with the Orthodox; the other break happened in the Protestant Reformation as a response to corruption of the Catholic clergy. From these more broke away from Protestants to be where they just have teachings and prayer in a very simple church environment.
We consider, or we are supposed to consider, our Orthodox and Protestant Christians as separated brethren and we do pray at most Sunday worship for the restoration of Christian unity.
The Catholic/Orthodox Mass/worship has essentials going back to times before 100 AD. It is an area of study we should all know more about and many are coming into the Catholic church seeing that we basically have the same spirit and tone of worship as we did 2,000 years ago. We also hold on to the Oral Tradition of the teachings of Jesus Christ (there was no printing press until Gutenberg…1400’s??)…through the Apostles and their successors.
Christ had 12 witnesses and many followers. There were only 4 who provided us with the Gospels; others went out to be missionaries or were bishops. St. James the Lesser was the first head of the Church of Jerusalem. When the Roman Empire worked to remove all the Jews from Jerusalem, they fled and established themselves elsewhere.
But I think the bottom line of Christianity is that we are all human, we all come from the same God – I mean there are aspects of Islam that we can recognize true religion --, that we are to continually forgive and share.
Today’s teachings was on owning possessions. Our pastor said God created everything. We have our houses full of things, garages, basements…give to the poor what we do not need. It does not matter if the poor think like we or not.
I simply shared that contemplation because Islam does not recognize Christ also as the Son of God…and the reason why He referred to himself as the Son of Man…He is here to serve us…and like wise we are to learn from Him and serve others. I was just wondering if you had any connection to the contemplative reflection or not. Just was wondering or if you could parallel anything to Islamic reflection. Thanks for atleast reading it.
We Christians who have fellowship with each other can share like experiences in how the Lord has helped us over come things in our life.
There is a book put out by Rick Warren, ‘On the Purpose Driven Life’ a few years ago. My protestant neighbors invited those of us to come. I went through the whole book and basically agreed with it. Many times where people differ is in how we worship. So the author said you all have your own places of worship.
So the Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans/Episcopalians and Lutherans have liturgies. The rest of the Protestants do not have liturgies but some or no ritual and have teachings on the Scriptures. Many times their worship space is very simple. Those of us who have liturgies have altars and symbolic art that also teach various topics of Scripture.
This split from worship goes back to the schism with the Orthodox; the other break happened in the Protestant Reformation as a response to corruption of the Catholic clergy. From these more broke away from Protestants to be where they just have teachings and prayer in a very simple church environment.
We consider, or we are supposed to consider, our Orthodox and Protestant Christians as separated brethren and we do pray at most Sunday worship for the restoration of Christian unity.
The Catholic/Orthodox Mass/worship has essentials going back to times before 100 AD. It is an area of study we should all know more about and many are coming into the Catholic church seeing that we basically have the same spirit and tone of worship as we did 2,000 years ago. We also hold on to the Oral Tradition of the teachings of Jesus Christ (there was no printing press until Gutenberg…1400’s??)…through the Apostles and their successors.
Christ had 12 witnesses and many followers. There were only 4 who provided us with the Gospels; others went out to be missionaries or were bishops. St. James the Lesser was the first head of the Church of Jerusalem. When the Roman Empire worked to remove all the Jews from Jerusalem, they fled and established themselves elsewhere.
But I think the bottom line of Christianity is that we are all human, we all come from the same God – I mean there are aspects of Islam that we can recognize true religion --, that we are to continually forgive and share.
Today’s teachings was on owning possessions. Our pastor said God created everything. We have our houses full of things, garages, basements…give to the poor what we do not need. It does not matter if the poor think like we or not.
I simply shared that contemplation because Islam does not recognize Christ also as the Son of God…and the reason why He referred to himself as the Son of Man…He is here to serve us…and like wise we are to learn from Him and serve others. I was just wondering if you had any connection to the contemplative reflection or not. Just was wondering or if you could parallel anything to Islamic reflection. Thanks for atleast reading it.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Elwill,
Thanks for the link. Please be patient with me…I have been working 24 hour shifts where I get up to care for a sick person a number of times per night. Just got back a while ago…and need to sleep.
I will make time this evening, God willing!
Thanks for the link. Please be patient with me…I have been working 24 hour shifts where I get up to care for a sick person a number of times per night. Just got back a while ago…and need to sleep.
I will make time this evening, God willing!
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Elwill,
I was able to read the intro to the page you linked…I will look more at it this week when I get back from my work. As I shared on contemplation and mentioned the ascetics from the desert…in contrast to Islam, in the topic of the body vs the spirit, …the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak, I read Islam’s different take on this…but we both agree on the development of the human being. This is part of the heritage of being made in the image of God.
But Catholicism particularly recognizes the different faith forms and charisms…and no matter if someone is living an ordinary life or an ascetic one, we all draw on the same fruit. Drawing on the same fruit, but having limitless diversity…the fruit Jesus Christ. So we accept ascetism for those who want to take that walk as well as the ordinary life. There is not this inclination among a number of Protestant denominations, though.
I will have to read later.
I was able to read the intro to the page you linked…I will look more at it this week when I get back from my work. As I shared on contemplation and mentioned the ascetics from the desert…in contrast to Islam, in the topic of the body vs the spirit, …the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak, I read Islam’s different take on this…but we both agree on the development of the human being. This is part of the heritage of being made in the image of God.
But Catholicism particularly recognizes the different faith forms and charisms…and no matter if someone is living an ordinary life or an ascetic one, we all draw on the same fruit. Drawing on the same fruit, but having limitless diversity…the fruit Jesus Christ. So we accept ascetism for those who want to take that walk as well as the ordinary life. There is not this inclination among a number of Protestant denominations, though.
I will have to read later.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
tqualey,
I had to go out…and asked my son to check the glove compartment as that is where I kept my Christ cards. I got this one from the Priests of the Sacred Heart…www.poshusa.org.
The prayer on back that the Muslim woman read and helped her understand how we relate to Christ goes as such:
"In every need let me come to You with humble trust, saying: Jesus, help me!
In all my doubts, perplexities and temptations, Jesus help me!
In the hours of loneliness, weariness, and trials: Jesus help me!
In the failure of my plans and hopes, in disappointments, troubles and sorrows: Jesus help me!
When I throw myself on Your tender Love as a Father and Savior: Jesus help me!
When my heart is cast down by failure, at seeing no good come from my efforts, Jesus help me!
When I fell impatient and my cross irritates me, Jesus help me!
When I am ill and my head and hands cannot work, and I am lonely: Jesus help me!
Always, always, in spite of weakness, falls and shortcomings of every kind: Jesus, help and never forsake me."
I had to go out…and asked my son to check the glove compartment as that is where I kept my Christ cards. I got this one from the Priests of the Sacred Heart…www.poshusa.org.
The prayer on back that the Muslim woman read and helped her understand how we relate to Christ goes as such:
"In every need let me come to You with humble trust, saying: Jesus, help me!
In all my doubts, perplexities and temptations, Jesus help me!
In the hours of loneliness, weariness, and trials: Jesus help me!
In the failure of my plans and hopes, in disappointments, troubles and sorrows: Jesus help me!
When I throw myself on Your tender Love as a Father and Savior: Jesus help me!
When my heart is cast down by failure, at seeing no good come from my efforts, Jesus help me!
When I fell impatient and my cross irritates me, Jesus help me!
When I am ill and my head and hands cannot work, and I am lonely: Jesus help me!
Always, always, in spite of weakness, falls and shortcomings of every kind: Jesus, help and never forsake me."
S
swariffin
Guest
Still the point I don’t understand. You said that Allah is not in the KaBah.
Another question if you don’t mind. Do you believe that KaBah was build by Adam? So, the age of KaBah can be dated to millions of years of age. In this case, Adam has develop a certain knowledge of civil engineering and geometry.
S
swariffin
Guest
Did Adam, Abraham, Moses, Isa ever spell the Shahada?
S
swariffin
Guest
The Dome of the rock were built from the former Jewish temple. The mosque in Istambul was built from the former Church established by queen Sophia from Constantinople (the former name of Istambul). So, modern Muslim are in violation of Omar’s view.
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
Peace and Goodwill towards all man…
Whats going on all my brothers of Blood.
Whats going on all my brothers of Blood.
E
elwill
Guest
Some commentators of the Qur’an say that it was first built by Adam (peace and blessings be upon him) and some others say that it was first built by the angels on this earth. When Prophet Ibrahim (peace and blessings be upon him) arrived at the place of the Ka
bah, the building itself did not exist. Even the city of Makkah had no inhabitants. Allah showed Prophet Ibrahim the site of the Kabah and then he and his son Isma`il (peace and blessings be upon them both) together raised its foundations and built it from the ground upIt is certainly possible, however, to infer from the Qur’an that Prophet Ibrahim and his son Isma
il (peace and blessings be upon them)only rebuilt the Kabah, and that Prophet Ibrahim (peace and blessings be upon him) was guided to the site.
E
elwill
Guest
Islam means “submission to the will of God and obedience to His law”.
so according to this meaning , they are all muslims
Nowhere in the Bible will you find God saying to Prophet Moses’ people or their descendants that their religion is Judaism, nor to the followers of Christ that their religion is Christianity.
The religion of Islam is not named after a person as in the case of Christianity which was named after Jesus Christ (AS). Buddhism after Gotama Buddha, and Confucianism after Confucius. Nor was it named after a tribe like Judaism after the tribe of Judah and Hinduism after the Hindus. Islam is the true religion of “Allah (God)” and as such, its name represents the central principle of Allah’s religion: the total submission to the will of Allah (God).
Man possesses the quality of intelligence and choice, thus he is invited to submit to the good will of God and obey His law (i.e. become a Muslim).
- Status