Understanding Islamic Views

[Alcrusader]

OY VEY…

Your link showed up as Arabic & hieroglyphics… couldn’t read a thing…!!

You couldn’t read that?

I couldn’t even find an option for English translation… I wonder why…???

OK, resume the thread…

hehe it’s because it’s creepn language

I will try to find an English version with similar meaning… which is hard

 

[Rachel_1]

It is absolutely true. READ THE koran. Please. It’s the only way to know what you are up against.

I thought I read somewhere that the Catholic Church said Islam was ok (I’m paraphrasing of course).
I’d still like a muslim to comment on that video if one would be so kind. (here)- youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w&feature=player_embedded
Thx

 

[KathleenGee]

(Rachel, what the Church is referring to are the Muslims who sincerely worship God and know in their hearts that what the others do are not right. There was a Muslim here who was of another sect but believed in tolerance and respect for others’ religions and countries.)

 

[cathdoki]

I thought I read somewhere that the Catholic Church said Islam was ok (I’m paraphrasing of course).
I’d still like a muslim to comment on that video if one would be so kind.
Thx

That’s not the case at all. The CC says they worship the same God, but that is disputable considering the CC has never said that before. If they worship the same God, then how could they reject Jesus as God?

Let me leave you with something to think about. Would an angel of God tell Mohammad that Jesus isn’t God. One more question. Who has the most to gain from the denial of Jesus as God. (Clue: He doesn’t really have a pitchfork, horns and a tail )

 

[KathleenGee]

cathodoki…there are some fruits of Islam that are the same as ours…A number of praises of God can be compared to Islam’s…respect for parents, not stealing, being pure – however they do interpret that way beyond ours…and so on…

It would be good to do a comparative where Islam and Catholic Christianity have similarities…oh well, back to the topic…

 

[elwill]

Could you be clear in what you are trying to say and stop reading deedat and zakir naik, read the Holy Bible and bring in your questioons.

it’s very simple
if mohammed pbuh asked allah forgivness 70 time a day means to you that he commit 70 sins a day

so i need to know why jesus was Baptized by John the Baptist , was he a sinner ?

and why did he asked forgivness , was he a sinner ?

 

[Rachel_1]

(Rachel, what the Church is referring to are the Muslims who sincerely worship God and know in their hearts that what the others do are not right. There was a Muslim here who was of another sect but believed in tolerance and respect for others’ religions and countries.)

KathleenGee,
if you watch this video here- youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9ro…layer_embedded you’ll see one thing said in it is that in Islam they say it’s cool to lie to the infidels in order to spread islam and sharia law and that none of them are really peaceful. In fact, if they sincerely worship God (Allah) according to this video, they will have to lie to us and stuff

 

[jakasaki]

i will answer you , but i want to know your openion about that

Jesus (PBUH) prayed to the Father in the Heaven; “And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.” (Matthew 6:12)

Further Jesus (pbuh) was Baptized by John the Baptist and we know about John the Basptist; “And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.” (Luke 3:3)

I’m not going to let you do this Elwill - we were discussing mohamads sins.

If you have a question about the 2 Bible verses, start a new thread.

**Was mohamad free of sin **- islam claims that all previous prophets based on the koran are sinless

 

[Rachel_1]

The video also says that some muslims quote stuff that sounds peaceful but that in the qur’an that it says that all earlier stuff (the peaceful stuff) is superseded by the later stuff (the violent stuff) and that they have to follow the stuff that is later in the qur’an. The quoting of the peaceful (early stuff) is just the "it’s ok to lie to infidels’ thing mentioned earlier. Of course I’ve paraphrased all of this, so watch the video incase I messed up any of it.
Also, I have a qur’an here, but due to my past I won’t read it (I’m getting rid of all of my books, an extensive library of books on other religions and belief systems and have been for months now).

 

[elwill]

I thought I read somewhere that the Catholic Church said Islam was ok (I’m paraphrasing of course).
I’d still like a muslim to comment on that video if one would be so kind. (here)- youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w&feature=player_embedded
Thx

hi , Rachel
it’s not true that all peacefull veses are abrogated by all violence verse
do you think that it’s possible for this information to be unbiased , logical or islamic view
offcourse not , it’s all allegations from those who hate islam and it’s all a lies from those who always says that muslims practice taqqiya

anyway , if you verified from muslims or islamic sites and sources you will find that such view isn’t there , but you will find some people always says to you that muslims and muslims sites and muslims source hide the facts from you so that you can’t find the facts about islam but with them (anti_muslims ) , you are free to trust whoever you want

peace

 

[Rachel_1]

hi , Rachel
it’s not true that all peacefull veses are abrogated by all violence verse
do you think that it’s possible for this information to be unbiased , logical or islamic view
offcourse not , it’s all allegations from those who hate islam and it’s all a lies from those who always says that muslims practice taqqiya

anyway , if you verified from muslims or islamic sites and sources you will find that such view isn’t there , but you will find some people always says to you that muslims and muslims sites and muslims source hide the facts from you so that you can’t find the facts about islam but with them (anti_muslims ) , you are free to trust whoever you want

peace

thank you elwill,
Can you please comment on this- muhammadanism.org/Quran/abrogation_koran.pdf

 

[elwill]

I’m not going to let you do this Elwill - we were discussing mohamads sins.

If you have a question about the 2 Bible verses, start a new thread.

**Was mohamad free of sin **- islam claims that all previous prophets based on the koran are sinless

can’t you see the relation between both views , i just trying to help you find the answers of your questions by yourself , just ask the same question you asked me to yourself about your relegion

i’m sure you will find the answer of it

 

[Alcrusader]

hehe it’s because it’s creepn language

I will try to find an English version with similar meaning… which is hard

couldn’t find better then this…
translate.google.com.lb/translate?hl=en&sl=ar&tl=en&u=http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp%3Fhnum%3D5832%26doc%3D0%26IMAGE%3D%25DA%25D1%25D6%2B%25C7%25E1%25CD%25CF%25ED%25CB

It may look like Chinese for instance, but it’s the closest enough…

the main point of this hadis is that: mohammad asked forgiveness for “silly things” like drinking, eating, and making sex, fighting others, and other things… which are considered to be “small sins”, knowing that Prophets are Infallible, and don’t sin…[as if fighting Christian and Jews “a small sin”?!?]
and the number “70” or “100” is doubtful and not accurate, and the purpose is to magnify the action…

[RIGHT
**… ‏قَوْله ( أَكْثَر مِنْ سَبْعِينَ مَرَّة ) ‏
‏وَقَعَ فِي حَدِيث أَنَس " إِنِّي لَأَسْتَغْفِر اللَّه فِي الْيَوْم سَبْعِينَ مَرَّة , فَيَحْتَمِل أَنْ يُرِيد الْمُبَالَغَة وَيَحْتَمِل أَنْ يُرِيد الْعَدَد بِعَيْنِهِ . وَقَوْله " أَكْثَر " مُبْهَم فَيَحْتَمِل أَنْ يُفَسَّر بِحَدِيثِ اِبْن عُمَر الْمَذْكُور وَأَنَّهُ يَبْلُغ الْمِائَة . وَقَدْ وَقَعَ فِي طَرِيق أُخْرَى عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَة مِنْ رِوَايَة مَعْمَر عَنْ الزُّهْرِيِّ بِلَفْظِ " إِنِّي لَأَسْتَغْفِر اللَّه فِي الْيَوْم مِائَة مَرَّة " لَكِنْ خَالَفَ أَصْحَاب الزُّهْرِيِّ فِي ذَلِكَ . نَعَمْ أَخْرَجَ النَّسَائِيُّ أَيْضًا مِنْ رِوَايَة مُحَمَّد بْن عَمْرو عَنْ أَبِي سَلَمَة بِلَفْظِ " إِنِّي لَأَسْتَغْفِر اللَّه وَأَتُوب إِلَيْهِ كُلّ يَوْم مِائَة مَرَّة " وَأَخْرَجَ النَّسَائِيُّ أَيْضًا مِنْ طَرِيق عَطَاء عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَة " أَنَّ رَسُول اللَّه صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ جَمَعَ النَّاس فَقَالَ : يَا أَيّهَا النَّاس تُوبُوا إِلَى اللَّه , فَإِنِّي أَتُوب إِلَيْهِ فِي الْيَوْم مِائَة مَرَّة " وَلَهُ فِي حَدِيث الْأَغَرّ الْمُزَنِيِّ رَفَعَه مِثْله , وَهُوَ عِنْده وَعِنْد مُسْلِم بِلَفْظِ " إِنَّهُ لَيُغَان عَلَى قَلْبِي وَإِنِّي لَأَسْتَغْفِر اللَّه كُلّ يَوْم مِائَة مَرَّة " قَالَ عِيَاض : الْمُرَاد بِالْغَيْنِ فَتَرَات عَنْ الذِّكْر الَّذِي شَأْنه أَنْ يُدَاوِم عَلَيْهِ , فَإِذَا فَتَرَ عَنْهُ لِأَمْرٍ مَا عَدَّ ذَلِكَ ذَنْبًا فَاسْتَغْفَرَ عَنْهُ . وَقِيلَ هُوَ شَيْء يَعْتَرِي الْقَلْب مِمَّا يَقَع مِنْ حَدِيث النَّفْس , وَقِيلَ هُوَ السَّكِينَة الَّتِي تَغْشَى قَلْبه وَالِاسْتِغْفَار لِإِظْهَارِ الْعُبُودِيَّة لِلَّهِ وَالشُّكْر لِمَا أَوْلَاهُ , وَقِيلَ هِيَ حَالَة خَشْيَة وَإِعْظَام وَالِاسْتِغْفَار شُكْرهَا , وَمِنْ ثُمَّ قَالَ الْمُحَاسِبِيّ : خَوْف الْمُتَقَرِّبِينَ خَوْف إِجْلَال وَإِعْظَام . وَقَالَ الشَّيْخ شِهَاب الدِّين السُّهْرَوَرْدِيّ : لَا يُعْتَقَد أَنَّ الْغَيْن فِي حَالَة نَقْص , بَلْ هُوَ كَمَال أَوْ تَتِمَّة كَمَال . ثُمَّ مَثَّلَ ذَلِكَ بِجَفْنِ الْعَيْن حِين يُسْبَل لِيَدْفَع الْقَذَى عَنْ الْعَيْن مَثَلًا فَإِنَّهُ يَمْنَع الْعَيْن مِنْ الرُّؤْيَة , فَهُوَ مِنْ هَذِهِ الْحَيْثِيَّة نَقْص , وَفِي الْحَقِيقَة هُوَ كَمَال . هَذَا مُحَصَّل كَلَامه بِعِبَارَةٍ طَوِيلَة , قَالَ : فَهَكَذَا بَصِيرَة النَّبِيّ صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ مُتَعَرِّضَة لِلْأَغْيِرَة الثَّائِرَة مِنْ أَنْفَاس الْأَغْيَار فَدَعَتْ الْحَاجَة إِلَى السَّتْر عَلَى حَدَقَة بَصِيرَته صِيَانَة لَهَا وَوِقَايَة عَنْ ذَلِكَ اِنْتَهَى . وَقَدْ اسْتَشْكَلَ وُقُوع الِاسْتِغْفَار مِنْ النَّبِيّ صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ وَهُوَ مَعْصُوم , وَالِاسْتِغْفَار يَسْتَدْعِي وُقُوع مَعْصِيَة . وَأُجِيبَ بِعِدَّةِ أَجْوِبَة : مِنْهَا مَا تَقَدَّمَ فِي تَفْسِير الْغَيْن , وَمِنْهَا قَوْل اِبْن الْجَوْزِيّ : هَفَوَات الطِّبَاع الْبَشَرِيَّة لَا يَسْلَم مِنْهَا أَحَد , وَالْأَنْبِيَاء وَإِنْ عُصِمُوا مِنْ الْكَبَائِر فَلَمْ يُعْصَمُوا مِنْ الصَّغَائِر . كَذَا قَالَ , وَهُوَ مُفَرَّع عَلَى خِلَاف الْمُخْتَار , وَالرَّاجِح عِصْمَتهمْ مِنْ الصَّغَائِر أَيْضًا . وَمِنْهَا قَوْل اِبْن بَطَّال : الْأَنْبِيَاء أَشَدّ النَّاس اِجْتِهَادًا فِي الْعِبَادَة لِمَا أَعْطَاهُمْ اللَّه تَعَالَى مِنْ الْمَعْرِفَة , فَهُمْ دَائِبُونَ فِي شُكْره مُعْتَرِفُونَ لَهُ بِالتَّقْصِيرِ اِنْتَهَى . وَمُحَصَّل جَوَابه أَنَّ الِاسْتِغْفَار مِنْ التَّقْصِير فِي أَدَاء الْحَقّ الَّذِي يَجِب لِلَّهِ تَعَالَى , وَيَحْتَمِل أَنْ يَكُون لِاشْتِغَالِهِ بِالْأُمُورِ الْمُبَاحَة مِنْ أَكْل أَوْ شُرْب أَوْ جِمَاع أَوْ نَوْم أَوْ رَاحَة , أَوْ لِمُخَاطَبَةِ النَّاس وَالنَّظَر فِي مَصَالِحهمْ , وَمُحَارَبَة عَدُوّهُمْ تَارَة وَمُدَارَاته أُخْرَى , وَتَأْلِيف الْمُؤَلَّفَة وَغَيْر ذَلِكَ مِمَّا يَحْجُبهُ عَنْ الِاشْتِغَال بِذِكْرِ اللَّه وَالتَّضَرُّع إِلَيْهِ وَمُشَاهَدَته وَمُرَاقَبَته , فَيَرَى ذَلِكَ ذَنْبًا بِالنِّسْبَةِ إِلَى الْمَقَام الْعَلِيّ وَهُوَ الْحُضُور فِي حَظِيرَة الْقُدْس . وَمِنْهَا أَنَّ اِسْتِغْفَاره تَشْرِيع لِأُمَّتِهِ , أَوْ مِنْ ذُنُوب الْأُمَّة فَهُوَ كَالشَّفَاعَةِ لَهُمْ . وَقَالَ الْغَزَالِيّ فِي " الْإِحْيَاء " كَانَ صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ دَائِم التَّرَقِّي , فَإِذَا اِرْتَقَى إِلَى حَال رَأَى مَا قَبْلهَا دُونهَا فَاسْتَغْفَرَ مِنْ الْحَالَة السَّابِقَة , وَهَذَا مُفَرَّع عَلَى أَنَّ الْعَدَد الْمَذْكُور فِي اِسْتِغْفَاره كَانَ مُفَرَّقًا بِحَسَبِ تَعَدُّد الْأَحْوَال , وَظَاهِر أَلْفَاظ الْحَدِيث يُخَالِف ذَلِكَ . وَقَالَ الشَّيْخ السُّهْرَوَرْدِيّ : لَمَّا كَانَ رُوح النَّبِيّ صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ لَمْ يَزَلْ فِي التَّرَقِّي إِلَى مَقَامَات الْقُرْب يَسْتَتْبِع الْقَلْب , وَالْقَلْب يَسْتَتْبِع النَّفْس , وَلَا رَيْب أَنَّ حَرَكَة الرُّوح وَالْقَلْب أَسْرَع مِنْ نَهْضَة النَّفْس فَكَانَتْ خُطَا النَّفْس تَقْصُر عَنْ مَدَاهُمَا فِي الْعُرُوج , فَاقْتَضَتْ الْحِكْمَة إِبْطَاء حَرَكَة الْقَلْب لِئَلَّا تَنْقَطِع عَلَاقَة النَّفْس عَنْهُ فَيَبْقَى الْعِبَاد مَحْرُومِينَ , فَكَانَ صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ يَفْزَع إِلَى الِاسْتِغْفَار لِقُصُورِ النَّفْس عَنْ شَأْو تَرَقِّي الْقَلْب , وَاَللَّه أَعْلَم . ‏[/RIGHT]

 

[elwill]

thank you elwill,
Can you please comment on this- muhammadanism.org/Quran/abrogation_koran.pdf

falsehood
not islamic openion
without any proofs
without any laws and criteria for such conclusions
without any references , sources

 

[elwill]

couldn’t find better then this…
translate.google.com.lb/translate?hl=en&sl=ar&tl=en&u=http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp%3Fhnum%3D5832%26doc%3D0%26IMAGE%3D%25DA%25D1%25D6%2B%25C7%25E1%25CD%25CF%25ED%25CB

It may look like Chinese for instance, but it’s the closest enough…

the main point of this hadis is that: mohammad asked forgiveness for “silly things” like drinking, eating, and making sex, fighting others, and other things… which are considered to be “small sins”, knowing that Prophets are Infallible, and don’t sin…[as if fighting Christian and Jews “a small sin”?!?]
and the number “70” or “100” is doubtful and not accurate, and the purpose is to magnify the action…

and i believe that he said this to inspire his followers to repent to Allah often.

This does not mean that the Holy Prophet had actually committed an error willfully, but its correct meaning is that it did not even behoove the servant who was the greatest worshiper of his Lord that he should harbor even a tinge of the pride of accomplishment in his heart, but his true position also was that in spite of all his great and glorious services he should continue confessing his shortcomings before his Lord. It was under this state of the mind that the Holy Prophet often implored his Lord for forgiveness.

for a person with more responsibility and greater honor, the standards are also different. Holy Prophet (PBUH) received direct revelations from the Almighty so he was supposed to be the best and at times when he had actually done no wrong , he was still admonished because of the higher levels set for him.

 

[Alcrusader]

i will answer you , but i want to know your openion about that

Jesus (PBUH) prayed to the Father in the Heaven; “And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.” (Matthew 6:12)

 

[famdigy]

**Was mohamad free of sin **- islam claims that all previous prophets based on the koran are sinless

Yes, Muhammad (pbuh&hf) is infallible. He does not sin or commit mistakes both minor and major both consciously or unconsciously.

 

[KathleenGee]

Famdigy,

First time I heard that…Muhammed’s actions greatly contradict Christ Who committed no sin…when I hear this I am thinking some ancient writer is now putting Muhammed in competition with Christ…No contest. And no disrespect intended…but as people say incessantly, there is a great contradiction between your Christ and ours…

And one of the great fruits of being Christian is that although there are many kinds of peoples and ways of expressions, they who are faithful all bear the same fruit of Christ…but then Muhammed comes and now we are hearing a different story…

Usually in real life, the former is the true story.

 

[simple_soul]

thank you for your comment ,

but i think that prophet mohammed (pbuh) want to teach us that however hard and sincerely may man be trying to serve and worship his Lord and fighting and struggling in the cause of His Religion, he should never be involved in the misunderstanding that he has done and accomplished whatever he was required to do. Rather, on the contrary, he should have the feeling that he has not been able to do full justice to what was expected of him by his Lord and Master. Therefore, he should confess his errors constantly and pray to Allah saying 'Lord, forgive me for whatever fault and error I may have committed in Your service."

Holy Prophet (PBUH) used to ask Allah for forgiveness as a token of his modesty and also to teach his companions and followers to do the same.

Narrated Abu Huraira: I heard Allah’s Messenger saying." By Allah! I ask for forgiveness from Allah and turn to Him in repentance more than seventy times a day." (Sahih Bukhari, Hadith 5832)

Ibn Umar narrated: I heard Allah’s Messenger saying, “O people ask Allah for forgiveness verily I ask Him for forgiveness hundred times a day.” (Musnad Ahmad Hadith 17173)

*Dear elwill,

To me this sounds like some one who understood that his own teachings, either in words or in actions, could contain faults and errors. But he himself, either willfully or in ignorance, did not understand those faults or errors.
I believe that if he had come to believe in and know Jesus Christ, The Divine Word of God Incarnate, God’s Divine Son, through the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit, then he would have come to understand the faults and errors that he seemed to know he might have.*

 

[cathdoki]

Of course Mohammad sinned! Didn’t he deny Christ?

But anyway…

muhammadanism.org/Inquiries/Muhammad/Muhammad_sin.htm