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cathdoki
Guest
No problem. Who do you think would lead him to deny the divinity of Christ. The Angel Gabriel as he claimed?
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KathleenGee
Guest
Simple Soul…about Christ warning those who give scandal…he is referring to people who literally wear the outward form of appearance but by their attitude and actions, contradict it committing crimes. All religions are guilty of this.
Murder and inhumanity in the name of God blaspheme God’s holy name and His creation.
Murder and inhumanity in the name of God blaspheme God’s holy name and His creation.
S
simple_soul
Guest
*Well, without even having to answer this, I find this even more convincing that he did not have full knowledge and understanding of who Jesus Christ is. Otherwise, I believe he would have known not to listen to him. But then again, maybe not. *No problem. Who do you think would lead him to deny the divinity of Christ. The Angel Gabriel as he claimed?
K
Kitsune633
Guest
That was not the Angel Gabriel, it was either a Djinn or the Devil himself, who seeked a new tool to do his bidding and of course, get a chance to lure millions into believing false words that this Demon placed on God’s mouth.No problem. Who do you think would lead him to deny the divinity of Christ. The Angel Gabriel as he claimed?
youtube.com/watch?v=VT7g04UdQys
This little peace of music defies what Islam really is, oppressive, sinister, evil, full of hate. It is not compatible with Western values such as democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of RELIGION, instead, it wants to rule all with its oppressive grip and laws made by the Devil. Sharia laws come from the Devil, only the Devil would want to have more slaves and if one leaves, that deserter must die. Only the Evil One would put words in God’s mouth, only a pure evil can distort millions into believing in a false doctrine. It’s time to follow what the Bible says, we must preach the Gospel to the Nations and save them from the Hellfire.
In Islam, you are allowed to lie, cheat, and steal as long as its OK and for the name of Islam. Only the Father of all Lies wants us to do this, to lie, cheat, and steal and hurt our fellow men and women just for our gain. Muslims are mindless, they are machines who follow a defective program that should of died centuries ago.
Amid the absurdity, the common thread with other manifestations of the Islamic supremacist agenda, is that they’ll say anything to get what they want. And all too many will go in for it, hook, line, and sinker.
So, enjoy your insalubrious gravity and magnetism, kuffar. “Giant Mecca clock seeks to call time on Greenwich,” by Adrian Blomfield, Middle East Correspondent, and Martin Beckford for the Telegraph, August 11:
For more than a century, a point on the top of a hill in south-east London has been recognised as the centre of world time and the official starting point of each new day.
But now the supremacy of Greenwich Mean Time is being challenged by a gargantuan new clock being built in Mecca, by which the world’s 1.5 billion Muslims could soon be setting their watches.
Due to start ticking on Thursday as the faithful begin fasting during the month of Ramadan, the timepiece sits atop the Royal Mecca Clock Tower which dominates Islam’s holiest city… As Mohammed al-Arkubi, manager of one of the hotels in the complex, put it: “Putting Mecca time in the face of Greenwich Mean Time. This is the goal.”
According to Yusuf al-Qaradawi, an Egyptian cleric known around the Muslim world for his popular television show “Sharia and Life”, Mecca has a greater claim to being the prime meridian because it is “in perfect alignment with the magnetic north.”
This claim that the holy city is a “zero magnetism zone” has won support from some Arab scientists like Abdel-Baset al-Sayyed of the Egyptian National Research Centre who says that there is no magnetic force in Mecca.
Islam wants this and that, and of course, change time to Mecca time. They still think the World is flat and still believe Mecca is the center of the world. 21st century and they still thing the world IS FLAT?“That’s why if someone travels to Mecca or lives there, he lives longer, is healthier and is less affected by the earth’s gravity,” he said. “You get charged with energy.”
Note:Information I got it from here: jihadwatch.org/2010/08/the-lighter-side-of-supremacist-agendas-and-deceptive-claims.html
K
KathleenGee
Guest
There are many Muslims who want to leave Islam but cannot.
The son of a leader of Hamas said that this type of Islam is ready to implode within itself in 10 years, and now his life is endangered. Time will tell.
I like Stephen John because he has been part of a Catholic parish. He was getting discouraged about some things and i explained to him this is how it is…he needs to know where to focus and understand the spirit of the Church. So I suggested he read Vatican II…he went through it the best he could…amazing! And he goes to his mosque and helps out.
Stephen John is giving me a picture of Muslims that I can trust. They are humane. May God bless them!
And God bless those who curse us.
There are mosques who curse the infidels. And the Christian and Jewish places of worship pray for all people around the world. We must pray…the challenge is not to hold people in bondage either of these grievances we share…each day is a new day of the Lord…and each day has hope.
I suggest all Muslims go to www.newageislam.com where they are working to recover their past, their philosophers, their rights for women.
The son of a leader of Hamas said that this type of Islam is ready to implode within itself in 10 years, and now his life is endangered. Time will tell.
I like Stephen John because he has been part of a Catholic parish. He was getting discouraged about some things and i explained to him this is how it is…he needs to know where to focus and understand the spirit of the Church. So I suggested he read Vatican II…he went through it the best he could…amazing! And he goes to his mosque and helps out.
Stephen John is giving me a picture of Muslims that I can trust. They are humane. May God bless them!
And God bless those who curse us.
There are mosques who curse the infidels. And the Christian and Jewish places of worship pray for all people around the world. We must pray…the challenge is not to hold people in bondage either of these grievances we share…each day is a new day of the Lord…and each day has hope.
I suggest all Muslims go to www.newageislam.com where they are working to recover their past, their philosophers, their rights for women.
J
John_Paul_Jones
Guest
Well not everyone agrees to that.Allegorical or literal would make no difference to the point i was making, **prophets (pbut) do sin **but they are still prophets.
Yes, Muhammad (pbuh&hf) **is infallible. He does not sin **or commit mistakes both minor and major both consciously or unconsciously.
I understand it was the point you trying to make that prophets do sin. But I found it interesting that you said Moses struck in your words “Yeshua” (at the time I don’t know if it refered to Joshua) and the reason I thought it was from the koran, was that it was in a paragraph that was speaking of the koran.Maybe it is not about the conclusion i came to, i was questioning the one you came to. i saw no reason in my post for you to assume it was a Quranic verse i was referring to but for you decided things about me with no reasonable foundation, thats only my take on it not judgment over you.
Steven John:
It was intriguing to say the least, why you would say that Moses struck Joshua (later did I find out that you meant Jesus). But it seem plausible that the koran would have a story about Moses striking Joshua. Remember the rhetorical question poses to Moses that made him flee “Do you mean to kill me as you killed the Egyptian?” (that is found in the Bible) So Moses striking someone (which is how you phrased it - not as a something) seem likely to happen.The Quran explains … It also explains … Moses (pbuh) is said to have struck Yeshua (pbwh) with his stick and thus was not allowed into the promised land, it does not nullify him as a prophet, it makes him human G-d uses humans to serve each other
The koran does have some 50 people that are taken from the Bible (mostly from the Old Testament). You have to understand that I did not know that you were substituting the allergorical meaning (at that particualr time) of the rock with the personal name for which it represents. The fact that you made a substitution and that it was a personal name changed the whole context of the story and made it unfimilar, and thus it seem plausible that it could be koranic verse; because Moses striking Joshua (at the time I thought you meant him) is not from what I recall what took place in the real Bible. But it must had some origin to the story, and it seem to me that if of all the stories in the koran that I do not know of it would be one of them - in restrospect maybe I should have asked what you had meant by “Moses (pbuh) is said to have struck Yeshua (pbwh)”
Whether that explanation is a reasonable enough foundation for the miscommunication in regard to the actions of Moses is entirely up to you to comprehend the miscomprehension between us.
S
Steven_John
Guest
Dear Brother,
I really do need to be mindful in forums i have to consider i dont really have just the other person to consider. I make the mistake of asking guidance for speaking to that person when i need to pray with us all in mind. G-d willing i will do better in the future.
May G-d bless and guide you and yours
as we have made a mess, apologized for by me in post #689 i am unsure if you are including yourself in not every one agrees, not that it matters to me as you sayWell not everyone agrees to that.
Thats all i was trying to do.I understand it was the point you trying to make that prophets do sin.
Yes Bro I ahve understod it whaen you said it in previous posts.But I found it interesting that you said Moses struck in your words “Yeshua” (at the time I don’t know if it refered to Joshua)
That makes sense, i have poor language or gramma skills. I was speaking to a person who is Christian and made that grave error of assuming they would have the same teaching you explain for us and would have understood. Best i remember it was ok for them.and the reason I thought it was from the koran, was that it was in a paragraph that was speaking of the koran.
I really do need to be mindful in forums i have to consider i dont really have just the other person to consider. I make the mistake of asking guidance for speaking to that person when i need to pray with us all in mind. G-d willing i will do better in the future.
i appreciate you efforts explain your thinking to me.It was intriguing to say the least, why you would say that Moses struck Joshua (later did I find out that you meant Jesus).But it seem plausible that the koran would have a story about Moses striking Joshua. Remember the rhetorical question poses to Moses that made him flee “Do you mean to kill me as you killed the Egyptian?” (that is found in the Bible) So Moses striking someone (which is how you phrased it - not as a something) seem likely to happen.
yes brother it is a good lesson for me also, qualifying before jumping will help me be more effective in loving people. Sadly i dont feel confidant i will always do this. May G-d strengthen me in faith He can do this in me.The koran does have some 50 people that are taken from the Bible (mostly from the Old Testament). You have to understand that I did not know that you were substituting the allergorical meaning (at that particualr time) of the rock with the personal name for which it represents. The fact that you made a substitution and that it was a personal name changed the whole context of the story and made it unfimilar, and thus it seem plausible that it could be koranic verse; because Moses striking Joshua (at the time I thought you meant him) is not from what I recall what took place in the real Bible. But it must had some origin to the story, and it seem to me that if of all the stories in the koran that I do not know of it would be one of them - in restrospect maybe I should have asked what you had meant by “Moses (pbuh) is said to have struck Yeshua (pbwh)”
yes brother and i have learned much from your sharing. What i was missing was it was in the same paragraph one i read this all fell into place.Whether that explanation is a reasonable enough foundation for the miscommunication in regard to the actions of Moses is entirely up to you to comprehend the miscomprehension between us.
May G-d bless and guide you and yours
E
elwill
Guest
it dosn’t matter if i was muslim or notare you a Muslim?
you said that quran said " jesus is sinless" , i want to read this verse
thanx
S
Steven_John
Guest
This is experience based not doctrines or teachings. So it speaks for nothing but my heart if i can get it into words you can understand.
Where i live we have Muslims of the Islamic religions from all corners of the globe.
They seem to me have very wide interpretations of Sharia law though all explain it is narrow.
I have prayed how can so many Muslims who cant discuss the Quran as they dont know it well be so full on for Sharia law.
The answer is simple they want G-ds law, the same i live in hope Christians and Jews do. His will not mine or yours. In government our will to be His will.
Now where i live but for Muslims, i dont think they want Sharia as their understanding is the atrocities seen on TV and discounting non-believers want G-d out of parliament and many Christians think government and religion should be and are two different things. If Christians say Jesus (pbwh) is the divine and man perfectly as one it seems to me a contradiction.
The TV here will not show near any positive things that Sharia law enforces do, ie ensuring welfare of their people with pensions and so forth. A response to them giving pensions maybe well we have been doing that here for years. Self -esteem rather than others-esteem, that responds praise G-d let, there be more of that in the world.
In this space, time world what ever you like to call it i dont think any system of government is safe from corruption. Democracy and communism looks good until men fall for money and power. Though democracy makes sin acceptable and right seeming to its people if the majority are for it. Some of us in of Western countries argued to our parents everybody else is doing it
All your books show G-d builds kingdoms.
Until The King is sent (live for that day brethren) or better said seen or realised by our putting faith in him, satan will stick his head in all your forms of government. Power and wealth of this world open the door for him and he is the deceiver.
The word sharia is a problem because we speak it without translation maybe other people languages would do better to separate the applications of sharia and there are many in the world.
If it really does mean G-ds law and a Christian speaks against sharia in words alone they say they are against G-ds law. i know that is pedantic its just to illustrate the interpretation you have for a word may not be the same for all.
In a global world of many languages communication is very hard if we are not really patient and open to learn the others understanding of the words they are saying.
peace and blessings to you all
Where i live we have Muslims of the Islamic religions from all corners of the globe.
They seem to me have very wide interpretations of Sharia law though all explain it is narrow.
I have prayed how can so many Muslims who cant discuss the Quran as they dont know it well be so full on for Sharia law.
The answer is simple they want G-ds law, the same i live in hope Christians and Jews do. His will not mine or yours. In government our will to be His will.
Now where i live but for Muslims, i dont think they want Sharia as their understanding is the atrocities seen on TV and discounting non-believers want G-d out of parliament and many Christians think government and religion should be and are two different things. If Christians say Jesus (pbwh) is the divine and man perfectly as one it seems to me a contradiction.
The TV here will not show near any positive things that Sharia law enforces do, ie ensuring welfare of their people with pensions and so forth. A response to them giving pensions maybe well we have been doing that here for years. Self -esteem rather than others-esteem, that responds praise G-d let, there be more of that in the world.
In this space, time world what ever you like to call it i dont think any system of government is safe from corruption. Democracy and communism looks good until men fall for money and power. Though democracy makes sin acceptable and right seeming to its people if the majority are for it. Some of us in of Western countries argued to our parents everybody else is doing it
All your books show G-d builds kingdoms.
Until The King is sent (live for that day brethren) or better said seen or realised by our putting faith in him, satan will stick his head in all your forms of government. Power and wealth of this world open the door for him and he is the deceiver.
The word sharia is a problem because we speak it without translation maybe other people languages would do better to separate the applications of sharia and there are many in the world.
If it really does mean G-ds law and a Christian speaks against sharia in words alone they say they are against G-ds law. i know that is pedantic its just to illustrate the interpretation you have for a word may not be the same for all.
In a global world of many languages communication is very hard if we are not really patient and open to learn the others understanding of the words they are saying.
peace and blessings to you all
S
Steven_John
Guest
I would like to ask Catholics do you believe in Djinn? i ask because a I once read a professing Catholic said the Quran was maybe given by one.
I don’t think Catholics believe in such and to be honest am too lazy to research as best Catholics have ranks of angels and demons and it could take some time.
If Catholics dont believe in Djinn and someone says the Quran may have come from one they may do well to consider they have a greater connection to the Quran than they are aware of.
If thats not the case and the person believes G-d / The Holy Spirit guides who is in the drivers seat?
For me too often i let my emotions take over and push G-d from the drivers seat so to speak.
Blessings to you all
I don’t think Catholics believe in such and to be honest am too lazy to research as best Catholics have ranks of angels and demons and it could take some time.
If Catholics dont believe in Djinn and someone says the Quran may have come from one they may do well to consider they have a greater connection to the Quran than they are aware of.
If thats not the case and the person believes G-d / The Holy Spirit guides who is in the drivers seat?
For me too often i let my emotions take over and push G-d from the drivers seat so to speak.
Blessings to you all
W
wwolverine
Guest
hello Elwillit dosn’t matter if i was muslim or not
you said that quran said " jesus is sinless" , i want to read this verse
thanx
Somewhere I had read that Jesus was the only child who was not touched by devil at birth and i believe it was on this forum, but not in this topic, quite a long time ago. but anyway, check this verse from quran
019.019
YUSUFALI: He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.
PICKTHAL: He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.
SHAKIR: He said: I am only a messenger of your Lord: That I will give you a pure boy
also check this as I cannot open it here. possible banned.
All struck by Satan except Jesus. Sahih Muslim vol.4 book 31 no.6429 p.1399 …
www.muslimhope.com/SahihMuslim.htm -
C
cathdoki
Guest
I agreeThat was not the Angel Gabriel, it was either a Djinn or the Devil himself, who seeked a new tool to do his bidding and of course, get a chance to lure millions into believing false words that this Demon placed on God’s mouth.
S
seraphime2008
Guest
SJ,
don’t u think that if we agree that we should enacted God’s law on governing the society, there will be people with different faith arguing one another about their own understanding of each other interpretation of God’s law, not only in among one religion but also amongst different faiths, not to mention there would be people acting in the name of God claiming that he is the most guided one by God? There will be chaos or if not there will be oppression of one by the other?
I believe that God’s law should be planted in everyone’s heart first then we will see the fruit emerging from it. If we believe that people do have their mind, soul, and conscience directed to the most important law of “reciprocal” action, there will be people who will act on responsiblity and concerns towards other.
Just my two cents!
don’t u think that if we agree that we should enacted God’s law on governing the society, there will be people with different faith arguing one another about their own understanding of each other interpretation of God’s law, not only in among one religion but also amongst different faiths, not to mention there would be people acting in the name of God claiming that he is the most guided one by God? There will be chaos or if not there will be oppression of one by the other?
I believe that God’s law should be planted in everyone’s heart first then we will see the fruit emerging from it. If we believe that people do have their mind, soul, and conscience directed to the most important law of “reciprocal” action, there will be people who will act on responsiblity and concerns towards other.
Just my two cents!
E
elwill
Guest
the arabic word mentioned here is zakiya , which means rightious , good and pure son , it dosn’t mean sinlesshello Elwill
Somewhere I had read that Jesus was the only child who was not touched by devil at birth and i believe it was on this forum, but not in this topic, quite a long time ago. but anyway, check this verse from quran
019.019
YUSUFALI: He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.
PICKTHAL: He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.
SHAKIR: He said: I am only a messenger of your Lord: That I will give you a pure boy
also check this as I cannot open it here. possible banned.
All struck by Satan except Jesus. Sahih Muslim vol.4 book 31 no.6429 p.1399 …
www.muslimhope.com/SahihMuslim.htm -
sinless in arabic means " ma3soom" / " معصوم "
Mohsen Khan : (The angel) said: “I am only a messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son.”
whatever wanna to say that my objestions dosn’t mean that jesus (pbuh) is a sinner , he is the most rightious prophets from point of view of muslims , we love him much and respect him much
sinless of creature dosn’t make him God , we believe that angles are sinless , but we will not ever says that they are Gods beause they are sinless
C
cathdoki
Guest
When Moses Asked God what name the people should call Him, He told Moses “I AM”.the arabic word mentioned here is zakiya , which means rightious , good and pure son , it dosn’t mean sinless
sinless in arabic means " ma3soom" / " معصوم "
Mohsen Khan : (The angel) said: “I am only a messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son.”
whatever wanna to say that my objestions dosn’t mean that jesus (pbuh) is a sinner , he is the most rightious prophets from point of view of muslims , we love him much and respect him much
sinless of creature dosn’t make him God , we believe that angles are sinless , but we will not ever says that they are Gods beause they are sinless
When Pontius Pilate asked Jesus who He was he said “I AM”. Jesus is God.
S
seraphime2008
Guest
Never have any Christian say that since Jesus is sinless than He autonomously become God…! you put it way around!the arabic word mentioned here is zakiya , which means rightious , good and pure son , it dosn’t mean sinless
sinless in arabic means " ma3soom" / " معصوم "
Mohsen Khan : (The angel) said: “I am only a messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son.”
whatever wanna to say that my objestions dosn’t mean that jesus (pbuh) is a sinner , he is the most rightious prophets from point of view of muslims , we love him much and respect him much
sinless of creature dosn’t make him God , we believe that angles are sinless , but we will not ever says that they are Gods beause they are sinless
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Catholics believe in Satan/devil/Evil One. Jinn are demons, Djinn is the evil one…
Reviewing the beginning sharings of Islam explaining Christianity, I usually find Muslims greatly misunderstanding the bible, not knowing how it was formed or the reasons so, and when the Bible began to be changed, only 500 years ago.
In the discernment for truth, it is in our faith tradition that true prophets do not contradict each other, that they are being used by God to prepare the Jewish people to receive the Messiah and for that alone, they are to be kept separate from others until that time. A true prophet always followed the previous prophet, bore the same fruit of guiding or rebuking the people or condemning their transgressions and calling them back to God.
A false prophet led people away from the tradition of faith of Salvation History, they did not live holy lives, and their prophecies did not come true.
Another is that a Truth will be revealed, people will accept that…but then what follows is the evil one giving another concept that contradicts and confusing the people leading some to fall away.
Christ warned in His Gospels to realize there would come false Christ. As Catholics, we know the full message of Christ, Who He is, the meaning of His life, and what it means for us to live in His life and Spirit. And this tradition is 2,000 years and the Holy Spirit has protected this faith for 2,000 years.
We are not slaves. Through Christ we are made free. And in this freedom we can work to retain our faith or allow ourselves to fall away and become slaves of this world and of our own passions.
The Catholic Church has many ongoing teachings that pertain to each generation. The Vatican has the greatest library in the world. We have theologians to help us understand Scripture, the Word of God, in the immediate times we are living. The problems we have today are the same of yesterday, but science and the world economy, and rapid change and information now has created new issues that seem overwhelming.
But the message and spirit is always the same of Jesus Christ. We have countless saints down through the ages that had their individual charisms, but they always produced the knowledge of the fruit of the same Jesus Christ – for 2,000 years.
For a Muslim to honestly and accurately understand what we believe, the context, and why one needs to go to a professional Catholic teacher.
But to understand basic Catholicism, you have to understand the spirit and context of vision for today found in Vatican II, you have to read our morality found in the universal catechism, to understand our worship and its background you have to study the Constitutions of the Liturgy from Vatican II, we have the documents of canon law that governs pastoral issues as well construction and maintenance of parishes, religious orders and congregations. There are Cardinals heading evangelization and many other areas of church life. Then we have the area of spirituality and mysticism, the lives of the saints and the discipline of how people can become saints. There are the charisms of the many religious orders and what their individual missions are. Our church is 2,000 years old.
For me, when somebody draws on foreign means to explain Christ and the Word of God…I find it overwhelming. There are so many layers of understanding Scripture. And that is explained as well in the first part of the Catechism. Catholics relate to the Word of God akin to the Jews whereas the Protestants have many denominations, sects and perspectives based more on individualism than God coming to a gathering of people.
So things are pretty complex and I find it impossible to see how Scripture can be adequately explained to a Muslim. Scripture gives way to the establishment of Christ’s Church. Scripture and Church – the fulfillment of Scripture go hand in hand.
Reviewing the beginning sharings of Islam explaining Christianity, I usually find Muslims greatly misunderstanding the bible, not knowing how it was formed or the reasons so, and when the Bible began to be changed, only 500 years ago.
In the discernment for truth, it is in our faith tradition that true prophets do not contradict each other, that they are being used by God to prepare the Jewish people to receive the Messiah and for that alone, they are to be kept separate from others until that time. A true prophet always followed the previous prophet, bore the same fruit of guiding or rebuking the people or condemning their transgressions and calling them back to God.
A false prophet led people away from the tradition of faith of Salvation History, they did not live holy lives, and their prophecies did not come true.
Another is that a Truth will be revealed, people will accept that…but then what follows is the evil one giving another concept that contradicts and confusing the people leading some to fall away.
Christ warned in His Gospels to realize there would come false Christ. As Catholics, we know the full message of Christ, Who He is, the meaning of His life, and what it means for us to live in His life and Spirit. And this tradition is 2,000 years and the Holy Spirit has protected this faith for 2,000 years.
We are not slaves. Through Christ we are made free. And in this freedom we can work to retain our faith or allow ourselves to fall away and become slaves of this world and of our own passions.
The Catholic Church has many ongoing teachings that pertain to each generation. The Vatican has the greatest library in the world. We have theologians to help us understand Scripture, the Word of God, in the immediate times we are living. The problems we have today are the same of yesterday, but science and the world economy, and rapid change and information now has created new issues that seem overwhelming.
But the message and spirit is always the same of Jesus Christ. We have countless saints down through the ages that had their individual charisms, but they always produced the knowledge of the fruit of the same Jesus Christ – for 2,000 years.
For a Muslim to honestly and accurately understand what we believe, the context, and why one needs to go to a professional Catholic teacher.
But to understand basic Catholicism, you have to understand the spirit and context of vision for today found in Vatican II, you have to read our morality found in the universal catechism, to understand our worship and its background you have to study the Constitutions of the Liturgy from Vatican II, we have the documents of canon law that governs pastoral issues as well construction and maintenance of parishes, religious orders and congregations. There are Cardinals heading evangelization and many other areas of church life. Then we have the area of spirituality and mysticism, the lives of the saints and the discipline of how people can become saints. There are the charisms of the many religious orders and what their individual missions are. Our church is 2,000 years old.
For me, when somebody draws on foreign means to explain Christ and the Word of God…I find it overwhelming. There are so many layers of understanding Scripture. And that is explained as well in the first part of the Catechism. Catholics relate to the Word of God akin to the Jews whereas the Protestants have many denominations, sects and perspectives based more on individualism than God coming to a gathering of people.
So things are pretty complex and I find it impossible to see how Scripture can be adequately explained to a Muslim. Scripture gives way to the establishment of Christ’s Church. Scripture and Church – the fulfillment of Scripture go hand in hand.
A
Alcrusader
Guest
oky oky, No Problemo.it dosn’t matter if i was muslim or not
you said that quran said " jesus is sinless" , i want to read this verse
thanx
let’s see what the Arabic text say
الغلام الزكي: نقرأ في سورة مريم 19 “قال انما انا رسول ربك لأهب لك غلامًا زكيًا” فالمسيح وحده ولد من عذراء، ووحده ولد بدون مس الشيطان له رغم اقرار القرآن بهذا المس الشيطاني لكل انسان فور ولادته. لكن المسيح كان زكيًا روحًا ونفسًا وجسدًا، فوحده عاش طاهرًا بريئًا من الذنوب.
(البيضاوي)
Surah Mariam 19 He said: “No, I am only a messenger from your Lord, to announce to you the gift of a holy[1] son.”
[1] “Holy” can also be translated “pure” or “faultless”. Prophet 'Isa Ibn Maryam is the only prophet who is said to be without sin in the Quran. The Injil says the same thing–'Isa was “without sin” (Hebrews 4:15) and “did not sin” (1 Peter 2:22). It is a commonly held error that the other prophets are sinless. For more on this subject see Lesson Two of the study course “The Testimony of the Holy Quran.” See also Surah 47:19.
al-kitab.org/al-kitab/quran/SURAH019.htm#_ftn1
المبارك: نقرأ في سورة مريم 31 “وجعلني مباركًا أينما كنت”، فأي نبي خصه الله بهذه البركة كل ايام حياته؟ أي نبي لم تفارقه البركة في لحظات الضعف؟ وحده المسيح عيسى هو المبارك دائمًا.
Jesus Was Blessed: Surah Mariam 31 And he has made me [Allah] blessed wherever I be, and has enjoined on me prayer and charity as long as I live;
So which prophet had this kind of Blessing that endure until the end of his life? Which prophet had not moments of weakness and still be blessed? Only the blessed Jesus the Messiah
البتول: لا يذكر القرآن انه كان لعيسى زوجة او اولادًا، ولا يلمح حتى الى اية علاقة له مع النساء. فوحده مع يحيى ابن زكريا كان “حصورًا”، لقد ولد من بتول وعاش بتولاً الى ان مات وقام وارتفع الى السماء.
Issa was Virgin. The Qu’ran never mention anything about him having a wife or kids, nor dose he say anything about having anykind of relationship with women. Only him and ‘Yahya ibn Zakariya’ [John the baptist] were virgins. Jesus was born From A Virgin, lived as A Virgin untill he died and resurrected from the death, and rose to the sky.
عصمته في رسالته كما في سيرته يتوهّم البعض أنّ العصمة في الرسالة تقترن حتماً بالعصمة في السيرة ولكنّ نصوص القرآن تنقض هذا الوهم. إذ نقرأ في سوره الكثير من النصوص التي تفيد أنّ حياة الأنبياء لم تكن بلا لوم، لا قبل الرسالة ولا بعدها. أمّا المسيح في القرآن فسيرته معصومة كرسالته. فقد شهد الملاك بذلك إذ قال لأمّه : أنا رسول ربّك لأهب لك غلاماً زكيّاً. وقد قال البيضاويّ في تفسيركلمة زكيّ إنّ عيسى كان مترقّياً من سنّ إلى سنّ.
Jesus was Infallible: Many imagine that been Infallible in the message is to be compared to (base on) the biography and the way the prophet lived, but the fact is that the Quanic texts reject this myth. As we read more and more in the Qu’ran we find out that the life of prophets were not “with nothing to be blamed for”, they all did mistakes, before and after their message began.
Unlike all other prophets in the Qu’ran, Issa /Jesus was the only who had a sinless message as long as him been sinless. He was Infallible.
And we can see that from the Angel Gibril (Gabriel) when he said to his mother:
He said: “No, I am only a messenger from your Lord, to announce to you the gift of a holy son.”
الولادة العجيبة. يذكر لنا القرآن هذا الحوار بين مريم العذراء وملاك الربّ حين جاء ليبشّرها، قال : ·إِنَّمَا أَنَا رَسُولُ رَبِّكِ لِأَهَبَ لَكِ غُلاَماً زَكِيّاً قَالَتْ أَنَّى يَكُونُ لِي غُلاَمٌ وَلَمْ يَمْسَسْنِي بَشَرٌ وَلَمْ أَكُ بَغِيّاً قَالَ كَذَلِكَ قَالَ رَبُّكِ هُوَ عَلَيَّ هَيِّنٌ وَلِنَجْعَلَهُ آيَةً لِلنَّاسِ وَرَحْمَةً مِنَّا وَكَانَ أَمْراً مَقْضِيّاً مريم 19 :19-21. وقد علّق البيضاويّ على ولادة يسوع المعجزيّة بقوله : تلك ميّزة تفرّد بها المسيح على العالمين والمرسَلين. لأنّه وُلِد دون أن تضمّه الأصلاب والأرحام الطوامس. أمّا الفخر الرازيّ، فعلّق على الموضوع هكذا :
العبارة ·لأهب لك غلاماً زكيّاً قال : الزكيّ يفيد أموراً ثلاثة :
الأّول أنّه الطاهر من الذنوب.
الثاني أنّه ينمو على التزكية، لأنّه يُقال في مَن لا ذنب له زكيّ، وفي الزرع النامي زكيّ،
… الثالث النزاهة والطهارة
العبارة ·لأهب لك غلاماً زكيّاً قال : الزكيّ يفيد أموراً ثلاثة :
الأّول أنّه الطاهر من الذنوب.
الثاني أنّه ينمو على التزكية، لأنّه يُقال في مَن لا ذنب له زكيّ، وفي الزرع النامي زكيّ،
… الثالث النزاهة والطهارة
The Miracles and Marvels Birth: The Qu’ran mention the dialog between the virgin Mary and the Angel who came to tell her about the plan of God:
19 He said: “No, I am only a messenger from your Lord, to announce to you the gift of a holy son.”
20 She said: “How shall I have a son, seeing that non man has touched me and I am not unchaste?”
21 He said: “So it will be: Your Lord says, ‘That is easy for me: and we wish to appoint him as a sign to men and a mercy from us.’ It is a matter so decreed.” Surah Mariam 19: 19-21
Commenting on the Miracles birth of Jesus, ‘Al-baydawi’ said: This is one Particular characteristic that only the Messiah had in the hole Worlds and between all the Messengers, because he came on earth without any physical intercourse. Also ‘Al-fakher Al-razy’ said about the phrase " to announce to you the gift of a holy son."
*Holy has means 3 things:
1- Sinless and Pure from any guilt. (Tahir)
2- Grow in a Pure and Saintly way, because he was born Pure (Zaki) and so shall he be always Pure (Zaki).
3- Integrity and Purity.
continue reading more arabicbible.com/arabic/a_jesus/a_jesus_jesuspersoninquran.htm
A
Alcrusader
Guest
**
Abu Huraira reported Allaah’s Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) as saying: The mother of every person gives him birth according to his true nature. It is subsequently his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Magian. Had his parents been Muslim he would have also remained a Muslim. Every person to whom his mother gives birth (has two aspects of his life) ; when his mother gives birth** Satan strikes him** but it was not the case with Mary and her son (Jesus Christ).
{ Sahih Muslim no.6429 }
and
حدثنا أبو بكر بن أبي شيبة حدثنا عبد الأعلى عن معمر عن الزهري عن سعيد عن أبي هريرة
أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال ما من مولود يولد إلا نخسه الشيطان فيستهل صارخا من نخسة الشيطان إلا ابن مريم وأمه
ثم قال أبو هريرة اقرءوا إن شئتم
http://hadith.al-islam.com/images/{.gif وإني أعيذها بك وذريتها من الشيطان الرجيم http://hadith.al-islam.com/images/}.gif
و حدثنيه محمد بن رافع حدثنا عبد الرزاق أخبرنا معمر ح و حدثني عبد الله بن عبد الرحمن الدارمي حدثنا أبو اليمان أخبرنا شعيب جميعا عن الزهري بهذا الإسناد وقالا يمسه حين يولد فيستهل صارخا من مسة الشيطان إياه وفي حديث شعيب من مس الشيطان
صحيح مسلم بشرح النووي
قَوْله صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ : ( مَا مِنْ مَوْلُود يُولَدُ إِلَّا نَخَسَهُ الشَّيْطَان فَيَسْتَهِلُّ صَارِخًا مِنْ نَخْسَةِ الشَّيْطَان إِلَّا اِبْن مَرْيَم وَأُمّه )
هَذِهِ فَضِيلَة ظَاهِرَة , وَظَاهِر الْحَدِيث اِخْتِصَاصهَا بِعِيسَى وَأُمّه , وَاخْتَارَ الْقَاضِي عِيَاض أَنَّ جَمِيع الْأَنْبِيَاء يُشَارِكُونَ فِيهَا .
hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?Doc=1&ID=101192&SearchText=%E3%C7%20%E3%E4%20%E3%E6%E1%E6%CF%20%ED%E6%E1%CF%20%C5%E1%C7%20%E4%CE%D3%E5%20%C7%E1%D4%ED%D8%C7%E4&SearchType=root&Scope=all&Offset=0&SearchLevel=QBE
BUKHARI’S HADITH 4.506: Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, “When any human being is born. Satan touches him at both sides of the body with his two fingers, except Jesus, the son of Mary, whom Satan tried to touch but failed, for he touched the placenta-cover instead.”
YOU SEE Elwill THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHO TAKE REVELATION FROM SATAN AND BETWEEN WHO SATAN CAN’T TOUCH???**
and here is the Hadishello Elwill
Somewhere I had read that Jesus was the only child who was not touched by devil at birth and i believe it was on this forum, but not in this topic, quite a long time ago. but anyway, check this verse from quran
019.019
YUSUFALI: He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.
PICKTHAL: He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.
SHAKIR: He said: I am only a messenger of your Lord: That I will give you a pure boy
also check this as I cannot open it here. possible banned.
All struck by Satan except Jesus. Sahih Muslim vol.4 book 31 no.6429 p.1399 …
www.muslimhope.com/SahihMuslim.htm
Abu Huraira reported Allaah’s Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) as saying: The mother of every person gives him birth according to his true nature. It is subsequently his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Magian. Had his parents been Muslim he would have also remained a Muslim. Every person to whom his mother gives birth (has two aspects of his life) ; when his mother gives birth** Satan strikes him** but it was not the case with Mary and her son (Jesus Christ).
{ Sahih Muslim no.6429 }
كلّ مولودٍ لامرأة يلكزه الشيطان إلا المسيح. صحيح مسلم المجلد 4 الكتاب 31 العدد 6429 صفحة 1399.
and
حدثنا أبو بكر بن أبي شيبة حدثنا عبد الأعلى عن معمر عن الزهري عن سعيد عن أبي هريرة
أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال ما من مولود يولد إلا نخسه الشيطان فيستهل صارخا من نخسة الشيطان إلا ابن مريم وأمه
ثم قال أبو هريرة اقرءوا إن شئتم
http://hadith.al-islam.com/images/{.gif وإني أعيذها بك وذريتها من الشيطان الرجيم http://hadith.al-islam.com/images/}.gif
و حدثنيه محمد بن رافع حدثنا عبد الرزاق أخبرنا معمر ح و حدثني عبد الله بن عبد الرحمن الدارمي حدثنا أبو اليمان أخبرنا شعيب جميعا عن الزهري بهذا الإسناد وقالا يمسه حين يولد فيستهل صارخا من مسة الشيطان إياه وفي حديث شعيب من مس الشيطان
صحيح مسلم بشرح النووي
قَوْله صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ : ( مَا مِنْ مَوْلُود يُولَدُ إِلَّا نَخَسَهُ الشَّيْطَان فَيَسْتَهِلُّ صَارِخًا مِنْ نَخْسَةِ الشَّيْطَان إِلَّا اِبْن مَرْيَم وَأُمّه )
هَذِهِ فَضِيلَة ظَاهِرَة , وَظَاهِر الْحَدِيث اِخْتِصَاصهَا بِعِيسَى وَأُمّه , وَاخْتَارَ الْقَاضِي عِيَاض أَنَّ جَمِيع الْأَنْبِيَاء يُشَارِكُونَ فِيهَا .
hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?Doc=1&ID=101192&SearchText=%E3%C7%20%E3%E4%20%E3%E6%E1%E6%CF%20%ED%E6%E1%CF%20%C5%E1%C7%20%E4%CE%D3%E5%20%C7%E1%D4%ED%D8%C7%E4&SearchType=root&Scope=all&Offset=0&SearchLevel=QBE
BUKHARI’S HADITH 4.506: Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, “When any human being is born. Satan touches him at both sides of the body with his two fingers, except Jesus, the son of Mary, whom Satan tried to touch but failed, for he touched the placenta-cover instead.”
YOU SEE Elwill THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHO TAKE REVELATION FROM SATAN AND BETWEEN WHO SATAN CAN’T TOUCH???**
S
Steven_John
Guest
Yes Sister, i think we are on the same page for the here and now and your speaking is for patience that is needed until humans are under the true King.SJ,
don’t u think that if we agree that we should enacted God’s law on governing the society, there will be people with different faith arguing one another about their own understanding of each other interpretation of God’s law, not only in among one religion but also amongst different faiths, not to mention there would be people acting in the name of God claiming that he is the most guided one by God? There will be chaos or if not there will be oppression of one by the other?
I believe that God’s law should be planted in everyone’s heart first then we will see the fruit emerging from it. If we believe that people do have their mind, soul, and conscience directed to the most important law of “reciprocal” action, there will be people who will act on responsiblity and concerns towards other.
Just my two cents!
I maybe misunderstanding the law or reciprocal action. As stab do you mean for example where we allow people freedom of religion so other countries owe us the same?
I often here people of this country complain “why should we let them do that here they would not allow us to do our things in their country”.
My laws are to do the same to and for others regardless to their actions as i value mercy above justice. The aspiration of my heart, sadly not always in action of the flesh is to hold regardless of what any does to me i will keep doing as i should.
Bless ya Sister pray well and stay well.
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