Understanding Latin?

[twopekinguys]

Returning to the original question:

Are the readings in a Tridentine Mass ever done only in Latin, when few people know that language? Now, I wouldn’t object if the readings were available in the Missal, or if they were done in both the vernacular and Latin, but isn’t it the objective to have the people know what is being said there?

My mind just boggles at the idea of the Tridentine Mass not giving people full access to the scriptures.

The readings are done in Latin, but the Epistle and the Gospel are done in Latin, and the vernacular.
The thing to keep in mind is, the Missalette has it in both Latin and the Vernacular. So even if you don’t “understand” Latin, you can still “understand” the reading.

 

[ibkc]

Returning to the original question:

Are the readings in a Tridentine Mass ever done only in Latin, when few people know that language? Now, I wouldn’t object if the readings were available in the Missal, or if they were done in both the vernacular and Latin, but isn’t it the objective to have the people know what is being said there?

My mind just boggles at the idea of the Tridentine Mass not giving people full access to the scriptures.

It boggles my mind that someone would hold up his attendance at the TLM as the ultimate example that he is a paragon of “cath cred”, then retreat into an argument that the TLM is hopelessly archaic and impossible to understand when it is pointed out that he has no idea what even goes on at a TLM.

 

[Jerusha]

He is a different kind of Jello. The ambivalence is positively wierd. But lets stay on topic.

 

[HOPEFUL_IN_UK]

When I am out of town I take the mormon sacrament because there is no catholic church. The Mass is only once of month where my daughters live. I accompany my daughters to the mormon meetings and take the sacrament. But when I am in town, I go to mass and take the communion.

OK. You’re not supposed to do that. Seriously. That’s not OK. Catholics don’t partake of the sacraments of other religions. You can argue all you want that it’s OK for you to do so, but there has never, ever been one Pope or Bishop in the entire history of the Church that would agree with you.

 

[why_me]

It boggles my mind that someone would hold up his attendance at the TLM as the ultimate example that he is a paragon of “cath cred”, then retreat into an argument that the TLM is hopelessly archaic and impossible to understand when it is pointed out that he has no idea what even goes on at a TLM.

I hope that you are not referring to me since I said no such thing. What I did say is that many catholics would not understand the latin Tridentine mass. And that is true since as you or someone has said, there are English translations in missals.

I find it really strange. I post good videos of the mass out of respect for the mass and as a learning tool and you guys can do nothing else but trash and be disrespectful. Not a fine specimen of catholicism.

 

[ibkc]

I hope that you are not referring to me since I said no such thing. What I did say is that many catholics would not understand the latin Tridentine mass. And that is true since as you or someone has said, there are English translations in missals.

I find it really strange. I post good videos of the mass out of respect for the mass and as a learning tool and you guys can do nothing else but trash and be disrespectful. Not a fine specimen of catholicism.

And you’re down in the Non-Catholic Religions forum posting links to Mormon apologetics sites, and defending Mormon theology as true. Yet again.

I’ll see you back down there. I’m sure the patience of the good people here in the traditional forum is wearing thin of this silliness.

 

[why_me]

And you’re down in the Non-Catholic Religions forum posting links to Mormon apologetics sites, and defending Mormon theology as true. Yet again.

I’ll see you back down there. I’m sure the patience of the good people here in the traditional forum is wearing thin of this silliness.

Unfortunately you and the others from the non-catholic section derailed this thread by making it personal about me as an individual. It is rather unfortunate since this thread was an interesting thread.

Comment about the topic. I am not the topic. :tsktsk:

 

[stmaria]

When I am out of town I take the mormon sacrament because there is no catholic church. The Mass is only once of month where my daughters live. I accompany my daughters to the mormon meetings and take the sacrament. But when I am in town, I go to mass and take the communion.

Exactly what is the “Mormon sacrament”? What do they believe that it is and why would you, if you are a Catholic, even consider going to a Mormon service and how can you take communion in the Catholic Mass.? Are you a Catholic?

 

[jimmy]

I have a discussion going on in the non-catholic section of the forum. I made a claim that most ordinary catholics would not understand the latin in a Tridentine mass nor would they be able to understand latin in general. Would I be correct in my judgement?

I am interested in your opinions. It was suggested that I post such a question here. My antagonist on the non-catholic section disagreed with me and suggested I seek you people out for your opinion.

The modern Catholics don’t but I think that many of the Catholics previous to the changes did. I know that the children who go to the Latin Mass learn the latin prayers in CCD.

 

[why_me]

Exactly what is the “Mormon sacrament”? What do they believe that it is and why would you, if you are a Catholic, even consider going to a Mormon service and how can you take communion in the Catholic Mass.? Are you a Catholic?

This is a side issue and I do want to derail the thread. But I was born catholic, converted to mormonism at 18 (now a few decades older) and now I attend Mass once more for the last couple of years or so.

The mormon sacrament is given at ‘sacrament meeting’. The bread and water is blessed and passed to the congregation. And then, various members who have been assigned talks speak to the congregation. The sacrament meeting lasts about one hour.

When I visit my daughters I attend the mormon service with them. There is no catholic church where my daughters live.

 

[why_me]

The modern Catholics don’t but I think that many of the Catholics previous to the changes did. I know that the children who go to the Latin Mass learn the latin prayers in CCD.

I didn’t know that children that go to the latin mass learn the latin prayers in CCD. But I suppose that every parish can not afford such a class or has enough people interested in the latin mass that they would send their children to such a class.

 

[Jerusha]

Parishes are required to provide religious education for the children, either through the parochial school, or CCD for those who go to public school. It is not a matter of expense, since CCD teachers are volunteers, although usually supervised by a paid Director of Religious Education.

There is not much difference in instruction for those who prefer their children to learn their prayers in Latin. Those children are taught with the rest. There is more difference in those parishes where there are enough parents who want their children instructed in Spanish, and that is still a volunteer program.

 

[Lance]

No, that is not the discussion. The discussion is about just how many ordinary catholics would understand the latin in the mass. I said very few. I have found it rather difficult to follow along with the english translation during the tridentine mass. I couldn’t follow the priest’s latin with the translation because I do not know latin and when the mass is sung, it is even more difficult.

I also think that during a tridentine mass, following along with a missal, might be a little strange since the mass is prayerful and reverant but I could be wrong. Our mind should be on god and not on the missal if I understand the meaning of the mass correctly.

I converted to Catholicism about 35 years ago and it has been even longer since I took Latin in school, so you are probably right that I would not understand many of the words in TLM but I have attended masses that were said in Polish, Italian, Spanish and German and never had much trouble knowing what part of the mass we were in. I would go to a TLM if my parish had one, just to see what it was like, but I think I would probably stay with the English mass for the most part.

 

[stmaria]

This is a side issue and I do want to derail the thread. But I was born catholic, converted to mormonism at 18 (now a few decades older) and now I attend Mass once more for the last couple of years or so.

The mormon sacrament is given at ‘sacrament meeting’. The bread and water is blessed and passed to the congregation. And then, various members who have been assigned talks speak to the congregation. The sacrament meeting lasts about one hour.

When I visit my daughters I attend the mormon service with them. There is no catholic church where my daughters live.

Were your children baptized in the Mormon faith? This is important. The Church does not recognize the Mormon baptism as valid. The Mormon’s have no authority to “bless” bread and wine. You should not partake.

 

[ibkc]

Were your children baptized in the Mormon faith? This is important. The Church does not recognize the Mormon baptism as valid. The Mormon’s have no authority to “bless” bread and wine. You should not partake.

He doesn’t care. Believe me, we’ve been through this dozens of times in the non-Catholic religions forum. He thinks all religions are valid.

 

[Lance]

Were your children baptized in the Mormon faith? This is important. The Church does not recognize the Mormon baptism as valid. The Mormon’s have no authority to “bless” bread and wine. You should not partake.

For a Catholic to partake in any protestant ‘communion’ is a very serious sin but I think a Morman ‘communion’ would be even more so. “why me” if you have done this for the sake of you soul get to Reconciliation ASAP and don’t do it again.

 

[Pandora]

Dear ibkc,

In the tridentine mass, the priest if he has no microphone can be difficult to hear. This is why it is hard to follow along. I also have pointed out that for many it is a first time experience and it does take some time to get used to. If one can not hear the priest clearly, how is one to recognize the latin words and follow along.

I also pointed out that one should not be reading the missal anyway during the mass since the mass is about prayer. But…just condemnation from my catholic friends.

Not Fr.Taurasi, if he were miked we’d all be deaf. You can hear him loud and clear even in the back of Holy Trinity.

I have only a year of Latin from my freshman year of high school which was a long time ago. It took my all of 3 times to be able to follow along with no problems. I did have my missal which helped. (do the red read, say the black). We have missals for the NO so I don’t get this not reading the missal nonsense. Yes we pray and we read some of those prayers from the missal. What’s the problem?

 

[why_me]

I converted to Catholicism about 35 years ago and it has been even longer since I took Latin in school, so you are probably right that I would not understand many of the words in TLM but I have attended masses that were said in Polish, Italian, Spanish and German and never had much trouble knowing what part of the mass we were in. I would go to a TLM if my parish had one, just to see what it was like, but I think I would probably stay with the English mass for the most part.

I think that you would find the ‘singing’ (chanting)Tridentine Mass very beautiful. I think what is important during that mass is the prayful attitude of the congregation sitting in the pews. It is also very beautiful. Once you see the videos posted on this thread on the meaning of the Tridentine mass, it becomes more clear when you attend in person.

My first experiences were mixed. The low mass was difficult because I could not hear the priest since he was not facing the pews. But in the singing mass, all was clear and he spoke much more clearly and loudly for all to hear.

Try to find a tridentine singing (chanting) mass. You will not be disappointed.

youtube.com/watch?v=enWiFcsBqIE&feature=related

 

[why_me]

Were your children baptized in the Mormon faith? This is important. The Church does not recognize the Mormon baptism as valid. The Mormon’s have no authority to “bless” bread and wine. You should not partake.

Yes, they were never catholic. I converted to mormonism as a teenager but now I attend Mass. I see no harm in taking the mormon sacrament. I don’t think that god is so easily offended by such actions, especially if the situation is like mine. However, I would say that god would be offended if I took the mormon sacrament or the communion unworthily. But this is why there is confession.

 

[why_me]

Not Fr.Taurasi, if he were miked we’d all be deaf. You can hear him loud and clear even in the back of Holy Trinity.

You are very lucky. The Tridentine mass was a special moment at my parish and it won’t happen again for awhile. The Tridentine mass was celebrated for three days. I attended two. The first was spoken quietly by the priest facing the altar. The second however was loud and clear. I suppose the organizers made some adjustments.