Understanding Marian devotion ie St. Alphonsus and St. Louis

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Yeah its very difficult honestly, but at least I have narrowed it down to Marian devotion and kneeling to saints/statutes in prayer. I guess i kinda let devotional writing slide. But it still feels like there’s all this attention on Mary that I’m not used to. I’m not saying no attention, but it just seems like its so much that is equal or more than the amount God gets. It could be just cause I’m sensitive to it but still. there was a picture and it was something like " Oh we focus on Mary too much?. Sorry I was to busy prostrating in front of are blessed Lord." I’m thinking about making a separte thread for the stautes subject. as it may be more effect and streamlined to sepatre. But thanks and converting feels like the right think and i really dont think i could go back to protestantism and I dont see orthodox happening. but yeah theres something deep in my soul that wants to do it. Like I said it grabbed me through my happy then it eventually spread in my heart like wildfire.
All the prayers that are sent to Mary are made perfect and given to Jesus. She keeps nothing for herself. It doesn’t get any better than that.

I would recommend reading “True devotion to Mary”. montfort.org/content/uploads/pdf/PDF_EN_26_1.pdf
 
Marian devotion is not a requirement.
An incorrect statement.

CCC 971 971 “All generations will call me blessed”: "The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."515 The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."516 The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an “epitome of the whole Gospel,” express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.517

There are Holy Days of Obligation dedicated to the Blessed Virgin Mary, in which you are required to attend and participate in the Sacred Liturgy in devotion to the Blessed Virgin. This is the minimum required devotion.
I

I do have a feeling that deep in my soul I should become Catholic, I fell in love with the faith years ago and while I didn’t pursue it till recently. Its aura never escaped me.
MARIALIS CULTUS

Perhaps, this will help you.

(frequently previewing the post will keep you from being logged out.) 🙂
 
Yeah its very difficult honestly, but at least I have narrowed it down to Marian devotion and kneeling to saints/statutes in prayer. I guess i kinda let devotional writing slide. But it still feels like there’s all this attention on Mary that I’m not used to. I’m not saying no attention, but it just seems like its so much that is equal or more than the amount God gets. It could be just cause I’m sensitive to it but still. there was a picture and it was something like " Oh we focus on Mary too much?. Sorry I was to busy prostrating in front of are blessed Lord." I’m thinking about making a separte thread for the stautes subject. as it may be more effect and streamlined to sepatre. But thanks and converting feels like the right think and i really dont think i could go back to protestantism and I dont see orthodox happening. but yeah theres something deep in my soul that wants to do it. Like I said it grabbed me through my happy then it eventually spread in my heart like wildfire.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=908476

Mary as Gebirah and Queen Mother
Taken from The Crucified Rabbi: Judaism and the Origins of Catholic Christianity
By Taylor R. Marshall

The royal and messianic Kingdom of David held its capital in Jerusalem, beginning with King David ca. 1004 B.C. and was eclipsed in 586 B.C. with the capture of King Zedekiah and the forced exile of those Jews who were still alive. Prior to the tragic Babylonian exile, the true King of Judah and heir of David sat enthroned in Jerusalem. Moreover, there were two other important figures alongside the Davidic king in the messianic court of Jerusalem. Next to the king, the second most important person in the Kingdom of Judah was the Gebirah. This Hebrew title translates literally, “Mighty Woman” and refers to the mother of the Jewish king. Most translators render Gebirah as “Queen Mother.”

This Jewish Gebirah possessed a powerful influence over the kingdom. This power and authority flowed from her status as the mother of the Davidic king, not from her own personal importance. Rightly understood, the Queen Mother held a political office and signified the legitimate genealogy of the king. King Solomon the Wise instituted the formal place of the Queen Mother when he ascended to the throne of his father, King David. One of the first things King Solomon did after his enthronement was to place a throne at his right hand and enthrone his mother as the Gebirah:
12 So Solomon sat on the throne of his father David; and his kingdom was firmly established. 13 Then Adonijah son of Haggith came to Bathsheba, Solomon’s mother. She asked, “Do you come peaceably?” He said, “Peaceably.” 14 Then he said, “May I have a word with you?” She said, “Go on.” 15 He said, “You know that the kingdom was mine, and that all Israel expected me to reign; however, the kingdom has turned about and become my brother’s, for it was his from the LORD. 16 And now I have one request to make of you; do not refuse me.” She said to him, “Go on.” 17 He said, “Please ask King Solomon—he will not refuse you—to give me Abishag the Shunammite as my wife.” 18 Bathsheba said, “Very well; I will speak to the king on your behalf.” 19 So Bathsheba went to King Solomon, to speak to him on behalf of Adonijah. The king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her; then he sat on his throne, and had a throne brought for the king’s mother, and she sat on his right (1 Kings 2:12-19).
King Solomon rose to greet his mother and bowed down before her—not because he worshipped her as a goddess, but rather because as King he understood the honor due to the Queen Mother. Her presence in the court signified that Solomon was the legitimate heir of King David because she literally served as the flesh and blood link between father and son. Give the importance of genealogical dynasties, the office and role of the Queen Mother existed in many other cultures, as well. A similar office of a Gebirah was also honored in the northern kingdom of Israel. “We are going down to visit the princes and the family of the queen mother” (2 Kings 10:13).

Jeremiah highlighted the place of preeminence held by the Queen Mother by the end of the Davidic Kingdom when he wrote: “Say to the king and to the queen mother: Come down from your throne” (Jer 13:18). The end of the Davidic reign from Jerusalem is signaled by the dethronement of the Davidic king and his mother. The Queen Mother was so important that the end of the kingdom meant that she must also be deposed.

We see here that it is quite natural for Catholic Christians to honor the Blessed Virgin Mary. Her son is the true Davidic King and she is rightly enthroned at his right hand as the Gebirah and Queen Mother of the Kingdom of God (The Crucified Rabbi, Marshall, Taylor R., p.53-54).

 
A couple of thoughts from a fellow convert:

Firstly, perhaps you’d like to ask Mary to help you understand her role in God’s plan of salvation and that she help you draw closer to her Son (her reason for being God’s ambassadress).

Secondly, that you consider that everything you’ve learned about Mary and worship is based on non-Catholic perspectives deeply engrained in your mind. Seeing things from a different perspective is not unlike becoming a citizen of another country–one with very difference sensibilities, history and emphasis.

And that you understand that what we believe about Mary is under the authority of Christ’s Church which he founded on Peter and the Apostles, not on our likes and dislikes or what we think okay or what “seems” right to us. Jesus formed a new family with himself as the head, each of us has our place in the body. The saints you cited, and others, have likened Mary to the neck of Christ’s body–she cannot make a move the head doesn’t direct, but she can move the head–through our prayers offered up through her.
Solid post thank you. Yeah its interesting that the Pope and Eucharist are natural to me and I can say now that there’s no issues there and one of the most attractive parts of Catholicism. So what you said helps about papal authority helps. I know its all about intercession and i know im a novice at this but reading some of these prayers just seems to make the line bury about if the Saint is doing the action or God. Theres a 12th century gallican chant call "o helper through out the ages I believe from the Codex Callixtnus and what surprised me is some of the words I thought there were talking about God but there were talking about St. James… through me for a loop. One of the lines was lead us into Salvation and thats the one that stuck out, but is St. James leading us into SAlavtion or God? but i guess it makes sense, you could say that my priest is leading me into salvation as has taking on the path but obv God not my priest is the final destintion.

I’m still very uncomfortable about Kneeling in prayer to statues that are not God and the question in my mind is why does the church think this is ok. But then again the Anglican church and Protestantism in general has allowed unspeakable things but one of the worst seems to be the division and relativism. So while I just started working on myself trying to be comfortable with what I said about statures, i dont seem myself going to anyother other faith. Im in a bad place in life and cany wait to convert and to start a new chapter.

Yeah Thats a good idea it might help to start talking to Mary gradually more to heal it. at th rish of sounding novice. I just kneel down and prayer to her like I do God? I dont seem my method os standing up and “yelling up stairs” lasting long haha.
 
An incorrect statement.

CCC 971 971 “All generations will call me blessed”: "The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."515 The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."516 The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an “epitome of the whole Gospel,” express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.517

There are Holy Days of Obligation dedicated to the Blessed Virgin Mary, in which you are required to attend and participate in the Sacred Liturgy in devotion to the Blessed Virgin. This is the minimum required devotion.

MARIALIS CULTUS

Perhaps, this will help you.

(frequently previewing the post will keep you from being logged out.) 🙂
Thanks Pal! that helps, yeah I obv dont have a problem going to mass haha 😛
 
All the prayers that are sent to Mary are made perfect and given to Jesus. She keeps nothing for herself. It doesn’t get any better than that.

I would recommend reading “True devotion to Mary”. montfort.org/content/uploads/pdf/PDF_EN_26_1.pdf
de Monfort might be a bit over my head as someone said as hed be close to the other end of the spectrum on Marian devotion as me but definitly worth giving it a shot and i see it helping thanks! itd help to familiarize myself of what i dont feel right about.
 
Solid post thank you. Yeah its interesting that the Pope and Eucharist are natural to me and I can say now that there’s no issues there and one of the most attractive parts of Catholicism. So what you said helps about papal authority helps. I know its all about intercession and i know im a novice at this but reading some of these prayers just seems to make the line bury about if the Saint is doing the action or God. Theres a 12th century gallican chant call "o helper through out the ages I believe from the Codex Callixtnus and what surprised me is some of the words I thought there were talking about God but there were talking about St. James… through me for a loop. One of the lines was lead us into Salvation and thats the one that stuck out, but is St. James leading us into SAlavtion or God? but i guess it makes sense, you could say that my priest is leading me into salvation as has taking on the path but obv God not my priest is the final destintion.
I think part of your problem is you are equating redemption with salvation. They are two separate things. We all help each other on our way to salvation because, as long as we’re alive we can still sin and sin gravely enough to endanger our salvation. Redemption, though is what Jesus accomplished on the cross–he redeemed the debt to God for us all–so we can be saved. So yes, he certainly saves us–in many ways–through the sacraments, through prayer, and through the aid of others in his holy family, both living on earth and those in heaven with him.
I’m still very uncomfortable about Kneeling in prayer to statues that are not God and the question in my mind is why does the church think this is ok. But then again the Anglican church and Protestantism in general has allowed unspeakable things but one of the worst seems to be the division and relativism. So while I just started working on myself trying to be comfortable with what I said about statures, i dont seem myself going to anyother other faith. Im in a bad place in life and cany wait to convert and to start a new chapter.
As for kneeling, it’s a sign of honor and respect for those who “fought the good fight” and gained heaven–not through their own merits, of course, but through their faithfulness. We ask for their prayers in the manner men have used for centuries, by taking a posture of a supplicant, which is on the knees.–this is called veneration. When we worship Christ we do more than honor him and respect him, we give him adoration because he is God incarnate. We don’t give adoration to Mary and the saints, only to God.

And while it’s true that Protestantism began as rebellion, most Protestants aren’t rebelling against anyone or anything. They were brought up as Protestants and generally know nothing else. I’d say there are very few who know much about the Catholic Church from which their own denomination was derived. It’s not surprising that people are comfortable with what they know and don’t wish their lives to be upset by looking into something else. Whatever they have that is true is good. Their worship of God is good. Their baptisms are valid and make them imperfectly joined to the Church. It’s a great pity we aren’t reunited, but it is hoped that in time all who claim Christ will be. It’s something we should make part of our daily prayers.
Yeah Thats a good idea it might help to start talking to Mary gradually more to heal it. at th rish of sounding novice. I just kneel down and prayer to her like I do God? I dont seem my method os standing up and “yelling up stairs” lasting long haha.
All you need to do is talk to Mary like you’d talk to anyone else. Kneeling is fine, especially when we want to venerate Mary as the Mother of God and the Mother of all believers. But, she isn’t fussy about such things. Simply tell her about your reservations and wishes. She is with us to help us draw closer to Christ. Let her do that. The only creature to whom I used to “yell up the stairs” was my Siamese cat, and my brothers and sisters when I was a kid. 😃 You don’t have to go to those lengths–she’s always listening for our prayers, which she hears through the power of the Holy Spirit. She lives outside of time and space in eternity, but she’s right here with us, always wanting and waiting to help us. Go to Mary and you can’t possible miss meeting with Jesus, as well. 😉
 
All the prayers that are sent to Mary are made perfect and given to Jesus. She keeps nothing for herself. It doesn’t get any better than that.

I would recommend reading “True devotion to Mary”. montfort.org/content/uploads/pdf/PDF_EN_26_1.pdf
de Monfort might be a bit over my head as someone said as hed be close to the other end of the spectrum on Marian devotion as me but definitly worth giving it a shot and i see it helping thanks! itd help to familiarize myself of what i dont feel right about.

I only got to the first sentence and I found something i disagree with… haha.

“It was through the Blessed Virgin Mary that Jesus came into the world, and it is also through her that he must reign in the world.”

When I read this it makes it sound like he’s limiting God. God (Christ) Can’t reign by himself? which ties me into the Teresa quote no Mary no Jesus, know Mary know Jesus. How does the first part of that make sense? God could of came into the world any way he wanted to limit him and to say he couldn’t or wouldn’t of done it without out Mary… Not saying there saying that but I just feel like people are taking the glory off of God and putting on to Mary. But then again I wasn’t raised with the comm. of saints. or when you honor a saint, your honor God through them. it makes sense but like i said im understandably over whelmed by all the devotion I see. Like I said I get this feeling a lot of Catholics are scared of God because of the uncertainty of salvation and purgatory and I will hear things like why go to the king by yourself when you can have an advocate etc. I’m not saying I don’t love saints or don’t prayer to them. this whole process makes me think Prot. are really missing out by not having them. But I don’t see how anyone can love us more than God as he created us and gives us heaven. I would use the analogy of a little girl always going to her mother and never talking to her Dad as shes scared of him. if shes always goes to her mother and never builds a personal relationship with her father then thats really un healthy right? maybe if she started slowly maybe shed understand where her father is coming from and that hes not so scary after all? I think the comm of saints is a beautiful idea but I just would hate for people to perpuate the idea of God as this scary judge and its foolish to go alone. I’m not recommended not praying to saints though I love it and love Saint George but stil new to doing it.

Like i talked about with the other poster it could help me more to heal my relationship with mary if i got to ger a little bit more
 
An incorrect statement.

CCC 971 971 “All generations will call me blessed”: "The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."515 The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."516 The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an “epitome of the whole Gospel,” express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.517

There are Holy Days of Obligation dedicated to the Blessed Virgin Mary, in which you are required to attend and participate in the Sacred Liturgy in devotion to the Blessed Virgin. This is the minimum required devotion.
He means praying the Rosary or other devotions like that.
 
Regarding the question of reigning through her…

Disclaimer - I have read deMonfort but I am not an expert.

The catechism indicates that Mary is the mother of God and also mother of the church.

Scripture indicates that the church is His body.

Mary gave birth to that same body. However, Jesus is not diminished by His mother. Her merits are still attributed to Him.

Since the church is His body, born of the Virgin Mary, and if there is one church on heaven and earth, I’m not certain the sentence about reigning through her is inconsistent with Jesus as Lord.
 
de Monfort might be a bit over my head as someone said as hed be close to the other end of the spectrum on Marian devotion as me but definitly worth giving it a shot and i see it helping thanks! itd help to familiarize myself of what i dont feel right about.

I only got to the first sentence and I found something i disagree with… haha.

“It was through the Blessed Virgin Mary that Jesus came into the world, and it is also through her that he must reign in the world.”

When I read this it makes it sound like he’s limiting God. God (Christ) Can’t reign by himself? which ties me into the Teresa quote no Mary no Jesus, know Mary know Jesus. How does the first part of that make sense? God could of came into the world any way he wanted to limit him and to say he couldn’t or wouldn’t of done it without out Mary… Not saying there saying that but I just feel like people are taking the glory off of God and putting on to Mary. But then again I wasn’t raised with the comm. of saints. or when you honor a saint, your honor God through them. it makes sense but like i said im understandably over whelmed by all the devotion I see. Like I said I get this feeling a lot of Catholics are scared of God because of the uncertainty of salvation and purgatory and I will hear things like why go to the king by yourself when you can have an advocate etc. I’m not saying I don’t love saints or don’t prayer to them. this whole process makes me think Prot. are really missing out by not having them. But I don’t see how anyone can love us more than God as he created us and gives us heaven. I would use the analogy of a little girl always going to her mother and never talking to her Dad as shes scared of him. if shes always goes to her mother and never builds a personal relationship with her father then thats really un healthy right? maybe if she started slowly maybe shed understand where her father is coming from and that hes not so scary after all? I think the comm of saints is a beautiful idea but I just would hate for people to perpuate the idea of God as this scary judge and its foolish to go alone. I’m not recommended not praying to saints though I love it and love Saint George but stil new to doing it.

Like i talked about with the other poster it could help me more to heal my relationship with mary if i got to ger a little bit more
Do you believe in the Immaculate conception, ie. Mary was born without original sin?
Do you believe that Mary has never sinned and always loves God perfectly?
 
Do you believe in the Immaculate conception, ie. Mary was born without original sin?
Do you believe that Mary has never sinned and always loves God perfectly?
i definietly struggled with and and wasnt sure, but id say more sure of it then not. thankfully im gettin bapized in the church soon looking forward to that. just feels like Catholicism is in my heart and theres nothing else that could replace it. its the faith of the ages that was literally ripped way from us in 16th ct Europe/ I’m thinkful to those who kept the fire burning hot.
 
i definietly struggled with and and wasnt sure, but id say more sure of it then not. thankfully im gettin bapized in the church soon looking forward to that. just feels like Catholicism is in my heart and theres nothing else that could replace it. its the faith of the ages that was literally ripped way from us in 16th ct Europe/ I’m thinkful to those who kept the fire burning hot.
I’m happy to hear that you will be baptized soon! Jesus and Mary go hand in hand. The closer you get to Mary, the closer you will get to Jesus. The closer you get to Jesus, the closer you will get to Mary.

God Bless you.
 
I’m happy to hear that you will be baptized soon! Jesus and Mary go hand in hand. The closer you get to Mary, the closer you will get to Jesus. The closer you get to Jesus, the closer you will get to Mary.

God Bless you.
same to you and thank you so much that helps 🙂
 
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