Understanding SSPX and SSPV

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commenter said:
It seems like sedevacantism would not be “all or nothing”, but a matter of degree. For instance, someone could say “There has been no valid pope since 1963” while another sede could say “No valid pope since 1958” or 1914, etc. They are not all alike.

Or one person could say they are not a sedevacantist, but go on to say “I accept pope Francis, but only as a moral leader, not a teacher of doctrine”; while another could say “I accept this pope, but only when he teaches what I already know to be true”, etc. In other words, even people who “recognize” this pope, may not consider him a Pope in the sense they still consider Pius XII as a Pope. If someone has chosen to evaluate rather than obey the current pope, one can say they are a little bit sedevantist, in effect.
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I have a buddy thats sedevacantist and the general consensus is that the chair of Peter has been empty since the death of Pius XII.
There is general suspicioun that John XXIII was a freemason and the moderism (particularly the new mass, lectionary during mass (ie, removal of all “controversial” Pauline episals, second confetior, prayers at the foot of the altar, softening of fasting, modernized this and that)…all is looked upon by sedes as widespread masonic infiltration in the church.,
 
Sedevacantists study Catholic Tradition but also rely on a contemporary source that evaluates Vatican II, recent popes and bishops, and tells them what went wrong, what didn’t go wrong, and guides the proper response for Catholics today. So in a sense that trusted person, organization, or website is their pope right now.

Some who who accept the validity of papal elections since 1958 say subsequent papal teachings need to be taken more selectively than those before 1958. They may say “Catholic Tradition is the standard I use”. But invariably there is a living person or website that summarizes and interprets that Tradition for them, that picks and chooses which documents from the past are relevant to refute this recent papal document - and which 99% of old documents are not relevant.

In other words, their current guide, a priest or a website, becomes for them something equal to the pope. Some websites keep referring to Francis not as “the pope” but rather “this pope”. In other words, his teachings might be transitory, or provisional, not authoritative, let’s wait it out, see what the next pope says.

My point is that sedevacantism isn’t all or nothing, it can be gradual.
 
giuseppeTO said:
Bravo and kudos. A succinct answer without polemics!

A couple more details on the SSPV. They are most definitely sedevacantist and do not mention the current Pope in the canon of the Mass. .
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Do they even use the 1962 Missal? Or the 1945 or another edition?
 
I find that many of there priests are good and Holy men. You can argue about there status in the church, but you cannot argue that they have been a tool of God to help to assist and defend against modernist attacks against the church. I pray that there will be unity one day.
 
I am a convert of 10 years. During the last 14 months, I have started wondering
if there really is such a thing as one holy catholic apostolic Church. I don’t think I
need to explain why it has only been during the last 14 months. I am currently pianist, cantor, choir director and organist in a fairly conservative Novus Ordo parish. I cut my spiritual Catholic teeth on the Novus Ordo mass and recitation of the rosary.

Because of the current persecution of certain traditionalist groups, I became aware of the
TLM which I knew nothing about until last summer. I’ve been doing a ton of reading about Vatican 2 and the creation of the Novus
Ordo Mass — and the information has been disturbing, disappointing and saddenng. Sometimes I think the only way I can keep believing that this is really the Church is to switch to a sede position and I have considered secretly receiving Communion only at a sede chapel during the week.

I cannot afford to give up my job at the
Novus Ordo parish, but I have made changes to our music
selections----more Latin, only pre Vat 2 choral pieces for the 2nd Communion
meditation music, using more traditional hymns, etc. Fortunately the
priest is young and prefers traditional music; it’s the older choir
members that are resistant. I have not spoken to him about
this because I don’t want to lose my job.

I want to remain faithful to the teachings of the Church, but, I
am very afraid that after the October synod that may be
difficult for all of us.

Maybe I should have started a separate thread for
this.
 
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