Uneccesary C-section immoral?

[rcwitness]

I dont believe we have any Teaching from the Church regarding C-sections. I am curious about Catholic opinions. I am living in Brasil and there is a strong practice of uneccesary scheduled C-sections. Our first child was born here and we were not ready for this mentality. We were lied to and coersed into a c-section. Now, our second pregnancy, we are more prepared and have planned on a home delivery. This has been against the advice of many people and family here. As a Christian, I find it difficult to support cutting a woman open to extract a baby for no reasons of avoiding an evident risk to mother or childs health. I dont know of any Church Teaching against the practice, so I dont want to accuse those who choose an uneccesary c-section of sin! But I personally think it is an offense to the natural birth which God fashioned. What do you guys think?

 

[THP]

There is no such thing as an unnecessary c-section.

 

[rcwitness]

There is no such thing as an unnecessary c-section.

You’re not from Brazil are you?

 

[mommamaree]

I won’t comment upon an at-home VBAC, and will stick strictly with your original question.

Coercion to force a mother into complying with the OB’s preferences for a C-section, in absence of any medical necessity, would be immoral on the part of the OB. The parents who are coerced or forced into compliance would bear no culpability.

I have heard of the Brazilian phenomenon of OB’s not allowing a mother to labor or deliver naturally, but instead coercing the parents to acquiesce to a C-section. I am sorry this has affected you and your wife negatively. Some regions in the states have incredibly high section rates, too, but as far as I know, none are as high as Brazil.

 

[rcwitness]

I won’t comment upon an at-home VBAC, and will stick strictly with your original question.

No prob. JFYI, there will be a team of specialists assisting and a doctor and hospitol chosen for the event of emergency.

Coercion to force a mother into complying with the OB’s preferences for a C-section, in absence of any medical necessity, would be immoral on the part of the OB. The parents who are coerced or forced into compliance would bear no culpability.

I have heard of the Brazilian phenomenon of OB’s not allowing a mother to labor or deliver naturally, but instead coercing the parents to acquiesce to a C-section. I am sorry this has affected you and your wife negatively. Some regions in the states have incredibly high section rates, too, but as far as I know, none are as high as Brazil.

I completely agree with your post. I am actually more concerned about Catholic opinion whether the practice of an uneccessary and planned c-section is morally right, not the coersion and influence of the practice.

 

[THP]

I am actually more concerned about Catholic opinion whether the practice of an uneccessary and planned c-section is morally right, not the coersion and influence of the practice.

How can it be anything but morally neutral?

 

[rcwitness]

How can it be anything but morally neutral?

Perhaps you’re right. I see it as disgusting to make a birth into a surgury for reasons of vanity and avoiding the pain which was fashioned due to our sin.

16 To the woman he said,

“I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children,
yet your desire shall be for your husband,
and he shall rule over you.”

 

[THP]

Perhaps you’re right. I see it as disgusting to make a birth into a surgury for reasons of vanity and avoiding the pain which was fashioned due to our sin.

16 To the woman he said,

“I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children,
yet your desire shall be for your husband,
and he shall rule over you.”

I think pain and fear of pain are a normal part of human existence. I can’t imagine how the desire to avoid physical pain would be considered sinful. Does that mean a more painful birth is more righteous? Is using meditation and breathing techniques to minimize pain sinful? This just seems cruel to women.

I agree that coercion by a physician into a c-section that is not medically indicated at the time (that is not the same thing as unnecessary) is ethically wrong. However, if a patient desires a c-section of her own free will, that doesn’t seem morally wrong to me.

 

[rcwitness]

I think pain and fear of pain are a normal part of human existence.

And a normal God given part of birth.

I can’t imagine how the desire to avoid physical pain would be considered sinful.

its not the mere desire to avoid pain, but the measure taken to cut out the baby from the womb in order to avoid the pain, or various vain reasons woman here have.

Does that mean a more painful birth is more righteous?

No, just a natural (as in vaginal) birth should be attempted unless dangers to the health are evident. Whether one woman might have an easier natural birth than another is only due to natural process out of their control. I dont blame a woman for hoping for less pain.

Is using meditation and breathing techniques to minimize pain sinful? This just seems cruel to women.

Is God cruel to fashion birth with pain involved? I dont know if anything we are talking about is sinnful. The medication (drug) use, would seem to diminish the mother’s participation in the experience (in a “disconnecting” way). But im not neccesarily concerned about that. Plus, it becomes a wide range of drug use to just label it sinfull. As for breathing techniques and other natural means to assist the birth process, that is a completely different thing.

I agree that coercion by a physician into a c-section that is not medically indicated at the time (that is not the same thing as unnecessary) is ethically wrong. However, if a patient desires a c-section of her own free will, that doesn’t seem morally wrong to me.

I appreciate and respect your opinion. Thanks

 

[Cat]

But there is pain with a C-section. A C-section is not painless for most women, and it’s dangerous (abdominal surgery is always dangerous; actually any surgery has an element of danger).

I had two C-sections, and had very little pain. But most women I know are in pain after a C.

 

[THP]

And a normal God given part of birth.

 

[rcwitness]

But there is pain with a C-section.A C-section is not painless for most women, and it’s dangerous (abdominal surgery is always dangerous; actually any surgery has an element of danger).

I had two C-sections, and had very little pain. But most women I know are in pain after a C.

I agree that there is pain. Its more recovery pain. But by large, a vaginal birth is more painfull. It can vary, and many can be very difficult. I dont think the pain is the only reason, but the huge effort involved too.

Yes, surguries have their risks for sure! Try teaching this to Brazilian women.

There are actual measures being taken from the government to fiscalize (sp?) a counter action against the high number of uneccesary c-sections performed here. Their is a global medical commitee that has come up with a number of around 15% of births should be considered neccesary c-sections in a hospitol, and some here in Brazil are as high as 80%.

Doctors charge more money for a c-section and create propoganda to put fear into women in order to create a streamline system of c-sections. A normal vaginal birth is now classified as a “humanized birth”. Many doctors refuse to take a woman patient who wants a vaginal birth. Doctors are even losing the knowledge and skills to help deliver the babies!

But there is a movement trying to educate women and break this practice.

 

[Sarcelle]

rcwitness;12368933:

Along with numerous other things for which we treat pain.

I don’t understand why the measure matters?

I disagree, as long as the mother understands the various risks involved.

I guess that is debatable - many of the Old Testament punishments doled out by God do seem pretty cruel to me. Just because God said childbirth will be painful doesn’t mean is has to be or we are somehow violating Natural Law. Is an epidural during a vaginal delivery morally wrong, or sinful?

Actually you were wondering in your first post if you were accusing women of sin by having an elective c-section.

Imagine a man shouting at his wife in labor at the delivery floor,

“You want painkillers? Bah, suffer woman, it is because of sin that you are suffering. Offer it up.”

 

[rcwitness]

I don’t understand why the measure matters?

The measure of surgically cutting out a baby from the womb rejects a fundamental aspect of birth. Outside the real avoidence of harm to mother or child

I guess that is debatable - many of the Old Testament punishments doled out by God do seem pretty cruel to me. Just because God said childbirth will be painful doesn’t mean is has to be or we are somehow violating Natural Law. Is an epidural during a vaginal delivery morally wrong, or sinful?

Do you think Mary would have chosen a c-section?

 

[Xantippe]

But there is pain with a C-section. A C-section is not painless for most women, and it’s dangerous (abdominal surgery is always dangerous; actually any surgery has an element of danger).

I had two C-sections, and had very little pain. But most women I know are in pain after a C.

Yes. In the US, almost nobody thinks of a c-section as the easy way out, given the difficult recovery and the lack of at-home support many American women face. If you have no helpful relatives close by and can’t afford paid help, and especially if you have a toddler at home already, a c-section and the long recovery afterward is a a very daunting prospect.

 

[Hobbes42]

I dont think the pain is the only reason, but the huge effort involved too.

Those lazy, wimpy women~! They should just suck it up!

[Sarcasm/]

 

[rcwitness]

THP;12368953:

Imagine a man shouting at his wife in labor at the delivery floor,

“You want painkillers? Bah, suffer woman, it is because of sin that you are suffering. Offer it up.”

This sounds like the melo dramatic exaggeration from Brazilians. No, I would not say that to my wife.

Im not asking about drug use. Im asking about c-sections planned, scheduled, and performed without any medical reasons for avoiding a vaginal birth.

 

[Hobbes42]

Sarcelle;12368971:

This sounds like the melo dramatic exaggeration from Brazilians. No, I would not say that to my wife.

Im not asking about drug use. Im asking about c-sections planned, scheduled, and performed without any medical reasons for avoiding a vaginal birth.

It seemed that you were. You specifically pointed out that, according to you, childbirth should be as painful as possible. Something about drugs “disconnecting” the mother from the experience.

 

[mommamaree]

Perhaps you’re right. I see it as disgusting to make a birth into a surgury for reasons of vanity and avoiding the pain which was fashioned due to our sin.

16 To the woman he said,

“I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children,
yet your desire shall be for your husband,
and he shall rule over you.”

Whoa, hang on.

If reducing pain or suffering (or death!) by using medicine or surgery is disgusting, we better tell all the men to give up their farm equipment, vehicles, machines and other technology that helps humans do their work with less pain and suffering.
Pain in childbirth is a consequence of the fall, but it is not a punishment which we must therefore enforce upon each other.
Your assertion here really sounds kind of misogynistic. Please reconsider.

And back to your original question: surgery such as C-section is morally neutral. The question of immoral vs. moral only comes in through the circumstances and the reasoning behind it and the way in which a doctor/person pushes for it.

 

[rcwitness]

It seemed that you were. You specifically pointed out that, according to you, childbirth should be as painful as possible. Something about drugs “disconnecting” the mother from the experience.

One person asked me about drugs during delivery. This was my response…

Is God cruel to fashion birth with pain involved? I dont know if anything we are talking about is sinnful. The medication (drug) use, would seem to diminish the mother’s participation in the experience (in a “disconnecting” way). But im not neccesarily concerned about that. Plus, it becomes a wide range of drug use to just label it sinfull. As for breathing techniques and other natural means to assist the birth process, that is a completely different thing.

In no way have I implied that a birth should be anymore painfull than what it naturally may be. The use of drugs is not the question I have.

My wife, without any influence from me believes that she does not want to use drugs. I am not interested in debating about drug use. I dont think it is sinfull to choose drugs. Not the better choice, but not immoral.