Uneccesary C-section immoral?

[rcwitness]

And back to your original question: surgery such as C-section is morally neutral. The question of immoral vs. moral only comes in through the circumstances and the reasoning behind it and the way in which a doctor/person pushes for it.

Thank you for your honest opinion

Do you think there would be morally acceptable reasons to choose a c-section outside of a medical risk birth?

 

[rcwitness]

Do you really think that Mary would have possibly and in moral purity, chosen to C-section Jesus without any known danger to deliver naturally?/B]

 

[KatieM2]

Perhaps you’re right. I see it as disgusting to make a birth into a surgury for reasons of vanity and avoiding the pain which was fashioned due to our sin.

16 To the woman he said,

“I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children,
yet your desire shall be for your husband,
and he shall rule over you.”

I agree with this. It is clearly God’s will that childbirth should be painful, and any attempt to minimise that is therefore immoral. Centuries ago it could be argued that C-sections were more painful than vaginal delivery as anaesthetics had not yet been invented. But now they have, and unless you can find a hospital that will give you a C-section without pain meds, I think they are best avoided.

 

[thewanderer]

Thank you for your honest opinion

Do you think there would be morally acceptable reasons to choose a c-section outside of a medical risk birth?

I know I’m not mommamaree, but in my opinion, yes. Say the mother had a bad experience with vaginal birth in the past and has built up a huge fear/phobia around vaginal birth. There isn’t a strictly health reason for her or the baby to have a c-section there, but I cannot see how it would be immoral for her to choose a c-section if she knows a vaginal birth will become a hugely traumatic experience because of triggering traumatic memories etc. I’m sure there are many other scenario’s one could come up with that would be moral as well. Also, just because some lay people deem a c-section “not medically necessary” doesn’t mean that there aren’t good medical indications for a c-section. Its all about weighing possible effects and the risks versus the good results. If the good outweighs the risks then of course it would not be immoral, whether those good effects are medical in nature or not.

 

[Sarcelle]

Sarcelle;12368971:

This sounds like the melo dramatic exaggeration from Brazilians. No, I would not say that to my wife.

Im not asking about drug use. Im asking about c-sections planned, scheduled, and performed without any medical reasons for avoiding a vaginal birth.

Melodramatic eh?

My post, tongue in cheek as it is, was aimed at people who say that pain in childbirth is a result of sin and using painkillers is questionable from a morality standpoint. You obviously don’t share this point of view, therefore my post was not aimed at you.

My friend is an obstetrician and she says ceasarians are usually a last resort because they take longer recovery times than natural births. Of course not all obstetricians share her point of view.

 

[Millie123]

Thank you for your honest opinion

Do you think there would be morally acceptable reasons to choose a c-section outside of a medical risk birth?

In addition to the answer that thewanderer was given to you. My answer is also yes…there are women who may have experienced sexual assault. Some of these assaults may or may not result in pregnancy. If these women are emotionally/spiritually hurt from there past sex abuse then they may have a very real fear of childbirth. These women may choose a c section even though there may not be a medical necessity for one.

 

[Sarcelle]

I agree with this. It is clearly God’s will that childbirth should be painful, and any attempt to minimise that is therefore immoral. Centuries ago it could be argued that C-sections were more painful than vaginal delivery as anaesthetics had not yet been invented. But now they have, and unless you can find a hospital that will give you a C-section without pain meds, I think they are best avoided.

Ceasarians can save lives.

Not all ceasarians are due to vanity reasons.

Can you tell me where in the teachings of the Church is the use of pain killers in childbirth prohibited and is sin?

 

[Millie123]

In addition to the other answer that thewanderer has given to you. My answer is also yes…there are women who may have experienced sexual assault. Some of these assaults may or may not result in pregnancy. If these women are emotionally/spiritually hurt from there past sex abuse then they may have a very real fear of childbirth. These women may choose a c section even though there may not be a medical necessity for one.

 

[Isca]

I was a midwife in the UK. Planned sections were not done for any reason other than necessity, as they involve major surgery and leave a scar on the uterus. Women’s bodies are designed to have babies and we have a great deal of effective pain-relief these days, including epidurals.

I am aware that some women want sections for non-medical reasons, in order to remove the risk of vaginal trauma and to ensure that the baby is born on a pre-arranged date. I never met any woman myself who had been given this option, but I worked in the NHS.

 

[rcwitness]

Ceasarians can save lives.

Not all ceasarians are due to vanity reasons.

Can you tell me where in the teachings of the Church is the use of pain killers in childbirth prohibited and is sin?

C-Sections have also caused deaths and harm!

Im asking about personal Catholic OPINIONS about a planned and scheduled c-section for reasons outside of a medical danger which already exists. I have NO issue with an emergency c-section in order to save the child or mother.

 

[on_the_hill]

My wife has had three c-sections, all of which were medically necessary. If not for c-section no. 1, I probably would have lost her and our daughter.

They are not painless, so anyone wanting to have a c-section to avoid pain is deluding herself.

There are women in the U.S. who schedule c-sections for a number of reasons, sometimes to fit a vacation schedule, for example. This seems not right to me.

 

[rayne89]

There is no such thing as an unnecessary c-section.

Of course there is. When a child can be born healthy and the mother is not at risk without a c-section than a c-section would be unnecessary.

 

[THP]

Do you really think that Mary would have possibly and in moral purity, chosen to C-section Jesus without any known danger to deliver naturally?/B]

Absolutely! In fact if I were Mary’s obstetrician (I happen to be an obstetrician, btw) I would in fact recommend a scheduled c-section at 39 weeks. It is so unpredictable as to who is going to have a difficult birth that with someone as important to humanity at Jesus I would want to completely take that out of the equation. I would accept the increased risk to Mary.

 

[LightBound]

Ceasarians can save lives.

Not all ceasarians are due to vanity reasons.

Can you tell me where in the teachings of the Church is the use of pain killers in childbirth prohibited and is sin?

She can’t find any because they don’t exist. It should be noted she is also not Catholic and you can see from her past posts (those the moderators did not delete) that she has her own fundamentalist interpretation of scripture and likes to stir the pot when it comes to controversial posts.

 

[Allegra]

I have a really hard time believing that a c-section is less painful than a vaginal birth with an epidural. I really can’t think of any “selfish” reason a woman would choose to have a c-section, other then maybe a case where the baby is due and she just isn’t going into labor. (I know a lady who went almost two weeks beyond her due date, but even then, they tried inducing labor first before they had the c-section.) I honestly don’t think there is a sinful reason to have a c-section, though I think it is highly immoral for a doctor to lie in order to coerce anyone to have a more invasive procedure that isn’t medically necessary. I should be interested to know what sort of lies Brazillian doctors are accused of using.

 

[Usige]

I am curious if people think unnecessarily driving medical cost up is immoral?

The cost of a vaginal birth without complications is anywhere from 2-10x less than a c-section depending on where the birth occurred (birth center, home, hospital). Any time an elective (i.e. medically unnecessary) c-section is performed it is done at the expense of other’s in the insurance pool for either the parents’ or doctor’s convenience. I would tend to say it is more on the doctor’s side since most women don’t just volunteer to have major abdominal surgery. That being said I do know a couple men that have pushed for their wives to have c-sections so they ‘weren’t “ruined” down there’.

 

[rcwitness]

Absolutely! In fact if I were Mary’s obstetrician (I happen to be an obstetrician, btw) I would in fact recommend a scheduled c-section at 39 weeks. It is so unpredictable as to who is going to have a difficult birth that with someone as important to humanity at Jesus I would want to completely take that out of the equation. I would accept the increased risk to Mary.

39 wks is not full term. The signs of labor are triggered after the lungs have maturely developed.

Without any evidence of a problem, there is more of a risk to undergo c-section. You would have put Mary AND Jesus in 3 times greater risk.

 

[rcwitness]

Is using meditation and breathing techniques to minimize pain sinful? This just seems cruel to women.

I just reread your statement here. Sorry I misread it as saying “medication” when you really wrote “meditation”

 

[Book_Worm]

While I agree with your premise that there are too many non-medically-necessary C sections, I don’t think that there is a direct moral implication. Do you have a source for the logic behind this belief? If you want to use the quote about bringing forth babies in pain, that would pretty much eliminate the use of epidurals

I had a totally natural childbirth. It wasn’t the worst pain I’ve ever experienced. And several of my friends also were committed to delivering without using drugs but changed their minds once they were in labor. I don’t see anything morally wrong with any of these choices.

Please forgive me, but once you have pushed a live human being out of one of your bodily orifices, I’ll give more weight to your opinion.

 

[rcwitness]

While I agree with your premise that there are too many non-medically-necessary C sections, I don’t think that there is a direct moral implication. Do you have a source for the logic behind this belief? If you want to use the quote about bringing forth babies in pain, that would pretty much eliminate the use of epidurals

No, I dont have a source for my logic. I was trying to bounce this off of you guys. I think that an epidural is spiritually unhealthy, but not nearly as an unnecessary c-section. I do think it is turning from an important suffering.

I had a totally natural childbirth. It wasn’t the worst pain I’ve ever experienced. And several of my friends also were committed to delivering without using drugs but changed their minds once they were in labor. I don’t see anything morally wrong with any of these choices.

Please forgive me, but once you have pushed a live human being out of one of your bodily orifices, I’ll give more weight to your opinion.

I can appreciate that too. But I never expressed this belief until after my wife expressed her desire to give an all natural birth. I am not judgmental or forcefull about my opinion. And please dont assume I would not practice what im preaching. I plan to be there with my wife participating in as much support as I can.