Unequally yoked marriage & trying to remain joyful

[Saturn5]

Brothers and sisters in Christ –

I have a melancholy anniversary of sorts coming up this Valentine’s Day. 8 years ago my wife confessed to me, she loved me, but was not “in” love with me. As devastating as it was to hear those words, it was glorious in that it helped push me to a deeper faith and devotion to Jesus Christ, to her and my family. The last several years have been an incredible journey in deepening my relationship with Jesus. But with that said, it is still a heavy cross to bear.

I started down the wrong path initially trying to fix our relationship (i.e., fixing her!). Many books, journals and counseling sessions later (me, not her) I finally got to the point where I knew Christ was the way. For that I am eternally grateful! My life is much richer spiritually. However in the journey, I have lost my bride, my best friend, my wife. In her defense, she grew up watching a horribly dysfunctional marriage with her parents. Her father was/is emotionally and verbally abusive to her mother. Therefore at an emotional level, I understand my wife’s inability to trust due to what she saw growing up. Unfortunately as my faith has deepened, she seems to distance herself more and more. That’s where I struggle. As much as I love and adore my wife, she really doesn’t want to do much together any longer. Over the years I have tried to develop our friendship, stay involved in her life and be aligned as parents. But it’s getting more and more difficult to do that. She can’t make time to talk (even superficial things), we are miles apart in certain areas on raising the kids and she makes excuses almost every time I suggest doing something together by ourselves (usually that we can’t afford it. However, God has blessed us abundantly. We are fine financially.)

She has told me she is in this marriage only for the kids and that she just wants to be friends. But the difficult part is she isn’t really a good friend anymore. At best we are roommates, doing domestic chores, shopping and doing things together as a family (I do cook and help with most things around the house). In private she can go weeks without talking to me. It has been years since we have shared any physical intimacy and emotional intimacy is limited at best.

I don’t feel like I’m at any cross roads, I’m not going anywhere, but I struggle with what to do. By that I mean, how do you love someone who doesn’t want to be loved? As her spouse, I understand my commitment to help her get to heaven as well. I don’t preach, I certainly understand I have to meet her where she is in her faith journey. Maybe I’m being impatient, I pray for strength and wisdom all the time. I try to unite my suffering with Christ, I pray Rosaries and go to confession. But I KNOW I have a lot of logs in my eye too, so I keep silent on many things.

To others in worse situations, this arrangement may seem ok. I know there are others out there whose spouses have done far worse to them. Maybe that’s what I need to hear, that I need to count my blessings. As I write this, I’m not sure what I’m looking for. Maybe this was more of vent then a need for help. Although I am always open for suggestions!

And as far as suggestions, counseling is out for her. To quote her “No one is going to tell me how to be in love with you”. Retrouvaille is not going to happen either. We have discussed it, but it would be too much of a commitment for her. She has stated she couldn’t commit to the follow up weekends. She has spoken to a priest once as a couple, so in her eyes, she’s good. Books, nope…doesn’t want to read.

Now with all that said, my wife is a wonderful person inside. She has a wonderful personality, is generous to others, is a great mother to our kids (at least external to them…although as they get older, they certainly see the differences in how we treat each other. That’s a concern of mine as well). For the first several years of our marriage, it was wonderful (or so I thought.), so I know what is inside her.

Like I said, I’m not sure what I’m looking for in this post, probably just trying to get by this “anniversary” of sorts. I do feel like I’m in a bit of a dry spell. I know prayer for me as of late has been not as enthusiastic and a bit lackluster. Like I said, that cross gets heavy for me sometimes…and I miss my wife.

 

[CatholicRaven]

Before I begin, let me say that none of these questions necessarily need be answered here. They are really just intended as (hopefully helpful) questions for you to consider in trying to figure out how to “woo” your wife again and win back her heart.

Is it possible that she was having an emotional affair (even if it never became a physical one)? As a woman, I cannot imagine not talking to anyone about my day, my feelings, etc. So if she’s not talking to you, is there someone she is talking to (or was)? (I suppose it’s also possible she’s not talking at all to anyone, but that seems like it would be unusual.)

Before she said she wasn’t “in love” with you, were there “hints” that she wasn’t happy? Was there anything in particular that she requested (especially if she requested regularly) that you didn’t do, or anything she complained that you no longer did for her or with her? Did she mention why she wasn’t “in love” with you anymore at that time, or any other point? Even in an argument? (“You never…” is often a good indicator of what might be missing.) These things might give you some clues.

Have you read The Five Love Languages? And Love and Respect? (I mean for you, not for her to read–just focus on the “Love” chapters in the latter.) Both of those books offer suggestions for “loving” your wife in the way that she understands love.

I offer those suggestions because it sounds like maybe you are doing a lot, putting in effort, and trying hard to help her feel loved, and she’s either not “getting” it, or she’s ignoring it (or rejecting it). If she’s not “getting” it, you don’t need to do more, but you might need to change the “language” you’re using (for instance, if you’re doing a lot of Acts of Service and trying to spend Quality Time with her and she’s not responding well to either, you might need to try Words of Affirmation, Gifts, or Physical Touch for a while instead–and be especially careful of things that may make her feel unloved).

But if you are already “speaking her language” regularly and she’s ignoring it, it may simply be that she doesn’t believe what she’s “hearing” (maybe because of her past), or doesn’t yet feel safe or worthy enough to be loved, or some other reason… and then, all you can really do is keep at it, loving her even when she’s unlovable, being faithful to her and to God, and praying for strength. And keep praying for her, of course.

It could be that counseling could get her back to a point where she feels “in love” again, but obviously, you cannot force her to go. You are wise to focus on Christ, and obey Him.

In any case, it must be a difficult struggle. I will pray for you!

 

[KnitNut]

Just a few random thoughts.

First, are you now trying to “fix” the friendship, in sort of the same way you tried to “fix” the marriage? It doesn’t sound like she has trust issues - I think that could be a red herring. Candidly, it might be time to just relax and concentrate on your own path, without trying to drag her along in any way. I’d wager she has felt pressure for at least the past 8 years, probably longer, to be what you want her to be. A quick skim of your past posts shows that this is an ongoing theme, how no matter what you do, she just won’t be what you want. This may be something to take up in (yes, more) counseling…you can only be responsible for your own actions, your own choices. You just can’t make her, well, anything. It almost seems, forgive me if this comes out poorly, that in lieu of mourning the change (and the lasting nature of this change…where it’s not turning into what you want), you threw yourself into the distraction of spirituality. Now, know that a relationship with God is never, ever a waste of time. But if it was done as a spiritual bargain with God…“I’ll be a really good person, just give me my wife back”…then that could explain why you’re still in a longing phase. You’re not done mourning…let yourself process this and arrive at your new acceptance.

Why do I suggest this? Well, “needy” just isn’t attractive to anyone, neither spouse nor friend. Your post suggests neediness…“she’s not a good friend”, “she won’t talk to me”, etc. You can’t MAKE her, as you know. So find a counselor help you feel better about being yourself, about being a whole person even as you perceive a sub-optimal relationship with her.

Another indelicate question - I apologize, I guess. No need to answer, but perhaps something to ponder. You mention somewhere that you both are divorced and weren’t in a marriage recognized by the Catholic church. Was this ever remedied? If not, it might be worth pondering (again, with priest and/or counselor) whether this change isn’t the correct path for your spiritual walk after all. I don’t pretend to understand all the Catholic nuance here, but if you’re really into your faith, then perhaps you would be better served living the relationship that your church would sanction? Again, I know it’s not what you want. But a really good confessor will guide you here and help you discern what’s best for your soul.

When I hear her say, “I just want to be friends,” I don’t think she means ‘friends’ like you’re imagining. I think she’s trying to let you down gently. If she wanted a close friend, she’d be talking, investing, etc. But she’s not. So really, if it’s bothering you, consider asking for a talk session (with a counselor, a mediator, a trusted acquaintance who won’t pull a religion card)…and try to hammer out exactly what your relationship is. I suspect she was speaking really plainly when she said she was only there for the kids…and she’s thinking along the lines of a co-parenting relationship with you. By having a (possibly painful) discussion, you can clarify what your expectations and obligations are to one and other and to the family. Many couples are able to have harmonious relationships for the benefit of the children, even without the ideal marriage. If 8 years of pressuring her hasn’t worked, it might be time to try a different approach.

Finally, it is possible that if you give her some space, stop being needy or trying desperately to “kindle” or “bond” or whatever, she may be able to breathe, and look at you in a new light. Again, just a suspicion, but I wonder if she continues to see you as just another person who wants something from her. So the wall stays up. I won’t debate whether you’re entitled, as a spouse, to receiving what you want…that’s for a different thread. If your goal is to change things for the better, I think it’s important to drop the wishful/wistful thinking. Use your time to invest in the kids, in charity/volunteer work, etc. She might not want to spend intense 1-on-1 time with you, but you might happily work alongside one another on other projects, for other people. Again, she might see you in a more favorable light.

Best wishes on your journey. God knows your heart.

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

I found this podcast from the organization , Focus on the Family, enlightening and helpful. Some of their advice and book may help you too:

focusonthefamily.com/media/daily-broadcast/moving-from-loneliness-to-intimacy-in-your-marriage-pt1

focusonthefamily.com/media/daily-broadcast/moving-from-loneliness-to-intimacy-in-your-marriage-pt2

 

[Evania]

I agree with CatholicRaven. As a woman, I would find it immensely difficult to not talk to anyone about my day, feelings, etc. Could your wife be suffering from depression? If not, then it could be possible that she could be emotionally linked to someone else whether it be another man or even just one of her girlfriends. The point is that it isn’t with who it should be with, which is you. I highly recommend that you visit divorcebusting.com
It really helps to build on the foundation that you once had. Trust me, there are a lot of stories similar to yours, so there is hope. I personally know some of the success stories. I’m praying for you!

 

[Edmundus1581]

First of all, you suggested that your post is partly just “a vent”, and I approve 100% of that. :thumbsup:When a problem becomes tangled and entrenched, often we need to vent just to start working on it, or accepting it. So, vent on!

Sorry if I didn’t see this in your post, but you didn’t say how long you had been married before she gave you this sad news eight years ago. What was the family situation there? Young children? And so on.

Also, the title of your thread is “Unequally yoked”, which invokes Paul’s description of the believer marrying a non-believer. What’s the history there?

My comment on her news that she loved you, but was not “in love” with you, is that this is a normal feeling to have in marriage. The romance wears off, the delight in each others’ company wears off, and we have to make a commitment and let the relationship mature. It simply sounds to me that she didn’t make that decision at the moment that she could have, and has refused to do so since, whereas you have. I will not speculate on why she should do this.

I would guess that there is often an imbalance in the response of the two partners to the feeling of not being in love anymore, and the one who withholds their commitment can gain an upper hand in the relationship, while the other becomes more needy and starts attempting to woo them back.

Keep praying and offering your sacrifices, and I will pray for you, and especially your children.

 

[Captain_America]

OP. I would drop your “yoke” metaphor. It’s more serious than that.

She’s detached, not tied. . . at least in her mind. So realize that, particularly in your language.

I know of two instances in which the wife asserted that she was no longer “in” love. Both women left their marriages and children to pursue a good time elsewhere. (But this of course was crazy, since they sought an illusory kind of stimulation).

She may up and leave you to find more excitement elsewhere.

Your best bet is to try to find some way for her to realize that love is more than a hot passion.

 

[Captain_America]

I agree with CatholicRaven. As a woman, I would find it immensely difficult to not talk to anyone about my day, feelings, etc. Could your wife be suffering from depression? If not, then it could be possible that she could be emotionally linked to someone else whether it be another man or even just one of her girlfriends. The point is that it isn’t with who it should be with, which is you. I highly recommend that you visit divorcebusting.com
It really helps to build on the foundation that you once had. Trust me, there are a lot of stories similar to yours, so there is hope. I personally know some of the success stories. I’m praying for you!

It might just be the case that a good girlfriend for her would cause a change in her assessment of her situation with you.

 

[Edmundus1581]

It might just be the case that a good girlfriend for her would cause a change in her assessment of her situation with you.

Interesting.

My marriage lasted ten years and ended with my wife leaving me for another man who had been her “friend” for the last two years. Long before this episode I observed that she eschewed friendships with women, while I encouraged her to work on maintaining the friendships she had, and to take up the invitations she received - to no avail. I felt that if she had done this then it would have taken pressure off me in the marriage (to be everything to her) and also allayed her feelings of “loneliness”.

As the women posting here have observed, it is unusual for woman to live without sharing the day-to-day stuff with someone. (Thanks ladies - I wouldn’t have spotted that!)

 

[KnitNut]

As the women posting here have observed, it is unusual for woman to live without sharing the day-to-day stuff with someone. (Thanks ladies - I wouldn’t have spotted that!)

Reading back a few years on the OP, it seems there was a problem with at least one EA in the past. Not clear how/if that resolved, or if there was any improvement over the past few years.

Having said that, I wouldn’t jump to the generalization that women must share the day-to-day stuff. I don’t. (Not even with my closest girlfriends.) Never have. And my closest friends don’t - we’re not “that” type. So I think the bigger indicator of a problem would be a sudden change in behavior - eg, the woman who previously shared in painstaking detail suddenly goes silent. Only the OP can measure this…was there a change? Did the EA end - if so, how? What is the situation today? It seems there’s a lot of backstory here that really matters in terms of advice to share.

 

[Saturn5]

Before I begin, let me say that none of these questions necessarily need be answered here. They are really just intended as (hopefully helpful) questions for you to consider in trying to figure out how to “woo” your wife again and win back her heart.

Is it possible that she was having an emotional affair (even if it never became a physical one)? As a woman, I cannot imagine not talking to anyone about my day, my feelings, etc. So if she’s not talking to you, is there someone she is talking to (or was)? (I suppose it’s also possible she’s not talking at all to anyone, but that seems like it would be unusual.)

Before she said she wasn’t “in love” with you, were there “hints” that she wasn’t happy? Was there anything in particular that she requested (especially if she requested regularly) that you didn’t do, or anything she complained that you no longer did for her or with her? Did she mention why she wasn’t “in love” with you anymore at that time, or any other point? Even in an argument? (“You never…” is often a good indicator of what might be missing.) These things might give you some clues.

Have you read The Five Love Languages? And Love and Respect? (I mean for you, not for her to read–just focus on the “Love” chapters in the latter.) Both of those books offer suggestions for “loving” your wife in the way that she understands love.

I offer those suggestions because it sounds like maybe you are doing a lot, putting in effort, and trying hard to help her feel loved, and she’s either not “getting” it, or she’s ignoring it (or rejecting it). If she’s not “getting” it, you don’t need to do more, but you might need to change the “language” you’re using (for instance, if you’re doing a lot of Acts of Service and trying to spend Quality Time with her and she’s not responding well to either, you might need to try Words of Affirmation, Gifts, or Physical Touch for a while instead–and be especially careful of things that may make her feel unloved).

But if you are already “speaking her language” regularly and she’s ignoring it, it may simply be that she doesn’t believe what she’s “hearing” (maybe because of her past), or doesn’t yet feel safe or worthy enough to be loved, or some other reason… and then, all you can really do is keep at it, loving her even when she’s unlovable, being faithful to her and to God, and praying for strength. And keep praying for her, of course.

It could be that counseling could get her back to a point where she feels “in love” again, but obviously, you cannot force her to go. You are wise to focus on Christ, and obey Him.

In any case, it must be a difficult struggle. I will pray for you!

Thank you for your prayers CatholicRaven! I greatly appreciate it!

Your questions are excellent and I appreciate the differing thoughts and ideas. I have read the 5 Love Langauges, great book! Physical touch is most certainly my primary (which of course just lends itself tremendously with how I feel/felt when this originally played out). Words of affirmation is my secondary. So if anyone was looking to hurt me, don’t touch or talk to me, that will devastate me. Learning that about myself was very eye-opening and helped me understand back a few years ago why I felt like I did.

As for my wife, and I know your languages can shift, but the first several years in our marriage I would have suggested she was also Physical touch and a close second in Words of affirmation. When I read the book I talked with her about it. It was a few years ago. I suggested we read it together a few months ago and that went nowhere, so I dropped it quickly because as other have suggested, I don’t appear too needy.

I have not read “Love and Respect”. I will certainly look into that one more.

As for the emotional affair…sadly she “did that, done that” a couple years ago. As far as anything physical happening, I can’t be 100% sure, but she told me nothing beyond a number of emails exchanges happened. The other person was 1200 miles away, so there wasn’t any opportunity for anything but the initial encounter. That was probably the lowest point of our marriage a few years ago. I was say we have moved up from there, so progress!

Purely from an observation perspective, I think you’re on the right track in that she struggles at some level with self-esteem. Watching her parent’s marriage as she did, seeing how her father degraded her mother has to take it’s toll on a young mind into adulthood. She has always been a very independent person (“no one can hurt me if I control myself” mentality) and has never had many friends or close friends. She has abandon a number of friends in the past that I thought were good friends, for no apparent reason. She can just walk away from it. That is odd to me.

Yes, I think how to woo my wife in friendship is the first step, start from where we were when we first met.

Thank again for your insight and prayers!

 

[Saturn5]

Just a few random thoughts.

First, are you now trying to “fix” the friendship, in sort of the same way you tried to “fix” the marriage? It doesn’t sound like she has trust issues - I think that could be a red herring. Candidly, it might be time to just relax and concentrate on your own path, without trying to drag her along in any way. I’d wager she has felt pressure for at least the past 8 years, probably longer, to be what you want her to be. A quick skim of your past posts shows that this is an ongoing theme, how no matter what you do, she just won’t be what you want. This may be something to take up in (yes, more) counseling…you can only be responsible for your own actions, your own choices. You just can’t make her, well, anything. It almost seems, forgive me if this comes out poorly, that in lieu of mourning the change (and the lasting nature of this change…where it’s not turning into what you want), you threw yourself into the distraction of spirituality. Now, know that a relationship with God is never, ever a waste of time. But if it was done as a spiritual bargain with God…“I’ll be a really good person, just give me my wife back”…then that could explain why you’re still in a longing phase. You’re not done mourning…let yourself process this and arrive at your new acceptance.

Why do I suggest this? Well, “needy” just isn’t attractive to anyone, neither spouse nor friend. Your post suggests neediness…“she’s not a good friend”, “she won’t talk to me”, etc. You can’t MAKE her, as you know. So find a counselor help you feel better about being yourself, about being a whole person even as you perceive a sub-optimal relationship with her.

Another indelicate question - I apologize, I guess. No need to answer, but perhaps something to ponder. You mention somewhere that you both are divorced and weren’t in a marriage recognized by the Catholic church. Was this ever remedied? If not, it might be worth pondering (again, with priest and/or counselor) whether this change isn’t the correct path for your spiritual walk after all. I don’t pretend to understand all the Catholic nuance here, but if you’re really into your faith, then perhaps you would be better served living the relationship that your church would sanction? Again, I know it’s not what you want. But a really good confessor will guide you here and help you discern what’s best for your soul.

When I hear her say, “I just want to be friends,” I don’t think she means ‘friends’ like you’re imagining. I think she’s trying to let you down gently. If she wanted a close friend, she’d be talking, investing, etc. But she’s not. So really, if it’s bothering you, consider asking for a talk session (with a counselor, a mediator, a trusted acquaintance who won’t pull a religion card)…and try to hammer out exactly what your relationship is. I suspect she was speaking really plainly when she said she was only there for the kids…and she’s thinking along the lines of a co-parenting relationship with you. By having a (possibly painful) discussion, you can clarify what your expectations and obligations are to one and other and to the family. Many couples are able to have harmonious relationships for the benefit of the children, even without the ideal marriage. If 8 years of pressuring her hasn’t worked, it might be time to try a different approach.

Finally, it is possible that if you give her some space, stop being needy or trying desperately to “kindle” or “bond” or whatever, she may be able to breathe, and look at you in a new light. Again, just a suspicion, but I wonder if she continues to see you as just another person who wants something from her. So the wall stays up. I won’t debate whether you’re entitled, as a spouse, to receiving what you want…that’s for a different thread. If your goal is to change things for the better, I think it’s important to drop the wishful/wistful thinking. Use your time to invest in the kids, in charity/volunteer work, etc. She might not want to spend intense 1-on-1 time with you, but you might happily work alongside one another on other projects, for other people. Again, she might see you in a more favorable light.

Best wishes on your journey. God knows your heart.

Thank you for your insightful post! There are a lot of great thoughts.

“Needy”…you hit the nail on the head! So here’s the conundrum. How do I be a good father to our children by abandoning my wife for all kinds of other hobbies and adventures because she doesn’t want to do things with me? Trust me, I’m plenty type A and I’ve had rachet it back a whole lot. I get that. I have plenty I can do without her if I wanted too. I have no issue with doing things by myself, with our kids, family or friends. But what’s the balance? I want to demonstrate to my children that a good husband spends time with his wife, that a good husband in Christ has his priorities as God, his spouse and his children. How do I reconcile that against the good of of our children and having them see a “good” marriage? How do I show that a good husband/father doesn’t abandon his family spiritually, emotionally and physically? Honestly, that is where a lot of my prayer is centered, “Lord help me be a good husband and father”. If there are any deals I’m conscously or subconsciously making with God, that’s where it would be focused, help me get my family to Heaven.

Glad you went back and looked at past posts. To answer your question, my first marriage has been annulled. Long story there, but your observation was 100% accurate, that has been an area of great concern for me and I am deeply thankful for the outcome.

Thank your for hard set of questions KnitNut, I think you hit it with the needy part. What is that balance? It’s not a matter of needy, but being a good husband and father.

 

[Saturn5]

Retrouvaille weekends do not TELL you how to be in love with each other, they are weekends that give you a chance to rediscover each other and improve your relationship. As far as the follow up weekends, I know of couples who took those one weekend at a time whether they were able to come or not. It’s not as if they make you sign your names in blood and force you to take vows to come!

Could you approach your wife in a non-accusing way? Simply telling her that you love her, but that you would like things to be better? You are happy but that you would like to be happier? You would like to get closer and to have more fun together. However you want to phrase it, but it sounds like if you phrase it that you are going to counseling to “fix” her problems she will back off. If you sound like you want to go to improve the relationship that might help. Plus keep emphasizing that Retrouvaille is ONLY a weekend, really only two days that’s not much! Please be assured of my prayers, God b less.

We did do Christian-based (however not Catholic) counseling together for about 5 months back about 4 years ago. It is my humble opinion that there is something darker than what she has told me about her childhood. I didn’t learn about the level of verbal and emotional abuse her mother has endured until those counseling sessions…and that was after 7-8years of marriage and 5 years of being good friends!! Her “walls” are tall and deep.

The primary reason she quit counseling was it was starting to focus on her behavior. She doesn’t like that. Like Popeye she’ll say “I ams who I ams”…take it or leave it. She values her opinion mightly. That was a minefield I used to try and navigate…stupid on my part. I was far more prideful then, I thought I knew more than God! The Lord had to smack me upside the head more than few times over the years before I learned! The point I’m trying to make is she is “right” in her mind and it has presented problems for her in other areas of her life, friends (as mentioned earlier) work and right now as our children get older, with them.

I did just recently approach her about Retrouvaille and I got a shrug of the shoulders…so who knows. More prayer!

 

[KnitNut]

So you two are in a sanctioned Catholic marriage? Was hers annulled, too?

I think you might be confusing “availability to…” with “doing…”. You can’t make her accept your physical touch, for example. To repeatedly attempt it (to demonstrate a “good” to the children, as you mention) when she clearly doesn’t welcome your touch…well that just teaches the kids that it’s OK to disrespect personal boundaries and force your affections on your partner. It’s coercive & puts her in the position of being “the bad guy” for not going along with you. Not cool. I understand what you’re saying, that ideally you would (both) be modeling appropriate affection. But she’s not there, and even couching it as an altruistic “family good” (“for the children”!), it’s not appropriate to keep badgering her. That’s where the whole “dying to self” and “being the servant” come in, for you. Likewise, you can offer conversation and emotional availability…but you can’t make her give it back to you. So offer (that’s the good role modeling)…but when she doesn’t respond, you graciously, cheerfully, and kindly move to something less intense. Hard? You betcha. But this lesson is equally important for the children to see, beyond your ideal lesson of emotional and physical connection.

Additionally, the good husband doesn’t mope about seeking attention - if you offer to do something with her and she refuses, and she offers no suggestion in return, then by all means go do something with the kids, or with your friends, or go volunteer. She’s not holding you hostage…and maybe if you & the kids do something on a regular basis, she’ll eventually join you. (My mother learned to ski in her late 40s because the rest of us would go on weekends & she got tired of being home alone, as a casual example.) Then again, your wife may appreciate the quiet time alone if she’s an introvert…and the time by herself will refresh her spirit. This is true leadership, reading the situation and the needs of each family member, and crafting a solution to fit. That’s certainly not abandonment!

So what I see is you couching your neediness as an “essential lesson for the family”. In a healthy relationship, I believe you’d be correct. But you two don’t have that right now. So it’s something you desperately want, and you’re using a sort of manipulative argument to try to compel it. You can’t rationalize her into a relationship.

Just curious (again, this is just a point to ponder). You’ve mentioned your personal spiritual growth. What about the family? Do you all attend services, participate with the parish, etc? I don’t remember seeing that, though I’m multitasking heavily and my little brain misses much!

I’m confident that you have many, many people praying for you all. And, like I said, God knows your heart and loves you all more than you know.

 

[CliffMiller]

imply telling her that you love her, but that you would like things to be better? You are happy but that you would like to be happier? You would like to get closer and to have more fun together. However you want to phrase it, but it sounds like if you phrase it that you are going to counseling to “fix” her problems she will back off. If you sound like you want to go to improve the relationship that might help. And hope you like chiffon sheath wedding dresses from gbridal.co.uk.

 

[Saturn5]

First of all, you suggested that your post is partly just “a vent”, and I approve 100% of that. :thumbsup:When a problem becomes tangled and entrenched, often we need to vent just to start working on it, or accepting it. So, vent on!

Sorry if I didn’t see this in your post, but you didn’t say how long you had been married before she gave you this sad news eight years ago. What was the family situation there? Young children? And so on.

Also, the title of your thread is “Unequally yoked”, which invokes Paul’s description of the believer marrying a non-believer. What’s the history there?

My comment on her news that she loved you, but was not “in love” with you, is that this is a normal feeling to have in marriage. The romance wears off, the delight in each others’ company wears off, and we have to make a commitment and let the relationship mature. It simply sounds to me that she didn’t make that decision at the moment that she could have, and has refused to do so since, whereas you have. I will not speculate on why she should do this.

I would guess that there is often an imbalance in the response of the two partners to the feeling of not being in love anymore, and the one who withholds their commitment can gain an upper hand in the relationship, while the other becomes more needy and starts attempting to woo them back.

Keep praying and offering your sacrifices, and I will pray for you, and especially your children.

Thanks for your thoughts “Ed”. Ya, sometimes thinking outloud if you will helps untangle the messes I create for myself! Mary has been a great “untier of knots” for me!

You’re very intuitive to recognize the natural course of our marriage in terms of how her feelings progressed. It was about 5 years into our marriage that things started to get “funny”. I was sensing problems, would try to talk with my wife about it only to get “everything is ok” as a response from her. It was year 7 when she finally came out with her confession. Our kids were certainly younger then, between 3-6 years old. So yes, the romance was waining and kids became her sole focus.

I’m the first one to admit that I was no saint in our marriage. I know it’s a two-way street. Like I said, I was sensing issues prior to her confession, by as she has demonstrated over the last several years, she clearly couldn’t trust me (or anyone) with her thoughts.

With that said, it wasn’t like I was treating her disrepectfully, going out every night with “the boys” or flirting with other women, drinking, etc, but I know there was something I was apparently doing that drove her away at some level. And I know my initital reaction to her confession didn’t help either. I’m a “fixer” by nature and was full of pride and by golly I was certainly going to fix this! I basically “tsunami-ed” her with books, counseling, suggestions, the Love Dare, you name it…oy what a fool I was. Then after a couple years of chasing this the secular way, the Lord led me to a couple Catholic books and I finally had the revelation that I could only change me.

So I guess that answers your other question a bit too is we were more closer in line in faith back then we are now.

 

[Saturn5]

It might just be the case that a good girlfriend for her would cause a change in her assessment of her situation with you.

I agree 100% Cap!

 

[Saturn5]

So you two are in a sanctioned Catholic marriage? Was hers annulled, too?

I think you might be confusing “availability to…” with “doing…”. You can’t make her accept your physical touch, for example. To repeatedly attempt it (to demonstrate a “good” to the children, as you mention) when she clearly doesn’t welcome your touch…well that just teaches the kids that it’s OK to disrespect personal boundaries and force your affections on your partner. It’s coercive & puts her in the position of being “the bad guy” for not going along with you. Not cool. I understand what you’re saying, that ideally you would (both) be modeling appropriate affection. But she’s not there, and even couching it as an altruistic “family good” (“for the children”!), it’s not appropriate to keep badgering her. That’s where the whole “dying to self” and “being the servant” come in, for you. Likewise, you can offer conversation and emotional availability…but you can’t make her give it back to you. So offer (that’s the good role modeling)…but when she doesn’t respond, you graciously, cheerfully, and kindly move to something less intense. Hard? You betcha. But this lesson is equally important for the children to see, beyond your ideal lesson of emotional and physical connection.

Additionally, the good husband doesn’t mope about seeking attention - if you offer to do something with her and she refuses, and she offers no suggestion in return, then by all means go do something with the kids, or with your friends, or go volunteer. She’s not holding you hostage…and maybe if you & the kids do something on a regular basis, she’ll eventually join you. (My mother learned to ski in her late 40s because the rest of us would go on weekends & she got tired of being home alone, as a casual example.) Then again, your wife may appreciate the quiet time alone if she’s an introvert…and the time by herself will refresh her spirit. This is true leadership, reading the situation and the needs of each family member, and crafting a solution to fit. That’s certainly not abandonment!

So what I see is you couching your neediness as an “essential lesson for the family”. In a healthy relationship, I believe you’d be correct. But you two don’t have that right now. So it’s something you desperately want, and you’re using a sort of manipulative argument to try to compel it. You can’t rationalize her into a relationship.

Just curious (again, this is just a point to ponder). You’ve mentioned your personal spiritual growth. What about the family? Do you all attend services, participate with the parish, etc? I don’t remember seeing that, though I’m multitasking heavily and my little brain misses much!

I’m confident that you have many, many people praying for you all. And, like I said, God knows your heart and loves you all more than you know.

Hi KnitNut,

You kind of imply that I am attempting to use teaching our children a good marriage as a means to paw at my wife. I can assure you nothing could be further from the true. You may have missed it in a previous post, but there is nothing physical between my wife and me. There are no kisses, even pecks on the cheek, no hugs, no hand holding. If anyone is touting “for the children”, it’s my wife as she has stated this is her reason for staying in the marriage. My point in my line of questions is at what level do I die for self? What does that mean in my marriage? I seriously don’t know. I don’t mope around and lament my wife’s lack of involvement in our marriage. My struggle is how to not abandon her. I have asked her out regularly, I do invite her to participate in activities. If it’s a family event, then it’s fine, she will do it. If it’s as a couple, then the answer is no. I guess that is my fundamental question is do I just give up on asking her and move forward as an individual rather than a couple? My anonymous “thinking outloud” on CAF is more me trying to figure this out rather than what is reality in the interactions of our marriage.

As far as her being an introvert, I would say yes. She has plenty of alone time, as it’s not like I ask her out to do something every day. We are beyond your mother’s age when she leaned to ski as we are both in our 50’s, so I don’t see her or I taking up any new hobbies as we have plenty now.

Our spiritual life at home is good, but could always be better. We attend Mass regularly, kids are alter servers, we pray together as a family nightly before bed and before meals. We attend reconcilation regularly as a family (my wife not as much) and faith is regular topic of conversation in our home. I volunteer at our church and the catholic school our children attend. My wife’s first marriage has not been annulled and she has no desire to do so. She has not said so, but I know she didn’t understand my strong desire to have my first marriage to be annulled, nor does she see the importance of having our marriage blessed by the Church.

Your statement of “reading the situation and the needs of each family member, and crafting a solution to fit” is exactly what I am trying to do…and sadly leaving my wife behind, if you will, is unfortunately appearing to be the solution. One I am not so keen on persuing. I made a committment to my wife, in good times and bad, in sickness and health, so walking away from her emotional needs, friendship and companionship is not something I’m quick to execute. I’m desperately trying to think how Christ would react in this situation.

 

[Saturn5]

I found this podcast from the organization , Focus on the Family, enlightening and helpful. Some of their advice and book may help you too:

focusonthefamily.com/media/daily-broadcast/moving-from-loneliness-to-intimacy-in-your-marriage-pt1

focusonthefamily.com/media/daily-broadcast/moving-from-loneliness-to-intimacy-in-your-marriage-pt2

Thanks Giggly Giraffe these look great!

 

[KnitNut]

I am impressed by your willingness to continue such soul-searching, Saturn. What does your counselor suggest? What does your priest suggest? I’m not sure you could legitimately pursue anything physical with her anyway, due to the whole invalid marriage thing. So perhaps that is your answer from above, regarding the physical stuff. According to…I’m not sure if it’s dogma or doctrine, your priest (or the co-religionists here, who are very knowledgeable) could tell you, you need to live as brother and sister anyway. So the “dying to self” here means getting used to the status quo on the physical side. And praying!

The issue of abandonment is an interesting one. I don’t think she would see you “not asking” as abandonment, nor as “leaving her behind”, so this is more for your personal comfort/need. You describe this dynamic as sort of entrenched…again, the priest/counselor are better resources, but I might suggest really backing off for a while. (“While” = several weeks, maybe more.) It’s possible that she is so very used to saying NO that it will take a while of detox before she would be open to a casual invitation. Have you tried asking her what she prefers? “Hey, I keep asking but you’re not interested. Would you prefer I step back for a while? I don’t want to pressure you to do all these date-type things if you’re not interested.” I wonder if you don’t give her any time to “miss” you. You’re always there, always available, always eager…and I suspect that even a glimmer of a positive response from her might be smothered by a hyper-enthusiastic (read “clinging to hope”) response in return? At this point, she might feel it’s just easier to say no to anything & everything, than trigger an emotional outburst (or worse, a lecture).

I guess it would be worth pondering how not putting out so many requests for “couple” time becomes “leaving her behind”? Really, this is a great point for a counselor’s (name removed by moderator)ut. I’m not sure that you’re really meeting her emotional needs, in that she doesn’t seem to enjoy talking with you even casually…so there’s nothing to “walk away from”. I suspect this is more accurately framed as you wishing she’d fulfill your emotional needs, and you’re not wanting to give up hope that your needs will be met. This is the kind of dying to self I was talking about. Rather than portraying it as a heroic effort to be “something” for her, perhaps recognize that it is your own (valid!) human need for connection that is driving you. From that point of honesty, you can better assess how to balance your own needs before moving to the family’s needs. (“In case of cabin depressurization, secure your oxygen mask first. Then assist those near you.”)

One final thought. Does she do much out of the house, generally? She also might be used to the “homebody” thing. One additional angle might be creating opportunities for her to engage out of the home…rather than invite her to a concert (since she’s likely to decline), what about just handing her the envelope with 2 tickets. “I know you love ____ (insert band name, artist, movie, whatevs). Maybe ______ (name of girlfriend) would like to go with you? I’ll stay home & wrangle the kids that night.” You’re showing that you value her interests, you’re showing positive encouragement for her to “have a life”, you’re not trying to corral her into a date? Just a thought. I think it’s going to take something different to get her to drop the entrenched indifference. And even then, it may not be successful. So…prayer is always good!