Unforgiven? Can't Become Catholic?

[Spirithound]

And because I had committed the sins of sex outside of marriage and abortion, I could not enter the Catholic church with those “mortal sins” behind me.

Dear sister,
Welcome to CAF, and welcome to your journey to the Catholic Church!
I just want to agree with the others who have said that in what I have quoted above, the priest was wrong, or there was a huge misunderstanding. Every sin is forgiveable. God is Love; God is Mercy.
God bless.

 

[SecretGarden]

Dear Seeking Catholic, Daughter of Christ,
I wanted to send you a private message but unfortunately it would not work. I want to encourage you to seek God and forget about the idiot priest who wasn’t able to help you. His remarks were wrong. Not all priests are like that. Know that despite that bad experience, God was listening to you, he was holding your hand and shaking his head when the priest didn’t know what to do. When I spoke to my local priest, he was gentle and kind. I know many who are equal as wonderful. When you join the Church, confession will also be there to help you take some extra steps in the healing journey.

I was sexually abused when I was young, my story is different but I can say this: if you want to join a denomination that is healing, Catholicism is the right place. When I was exploring the Catholic Church, I began to remember my past. Counselling and spiritual direction really helped me. If you have any questions about how to heal, about the Catholic church etc, please feel free to message me. I am on Skype too but for now messaging through this site is best. I know what it means to heal and it’s not an easy journey but if you pray and continue to seek God, he will heal your heart. Remember that what happened wasn’t your fault. Abuse and rape are never the victim’s fault. By right they shouldn’t happen. If I could change anything in this world, it would be to erase abuse and rape from the minds of men. It takes a lot of courage to share your story, keep sharing it because it might inspire someone else to take that step and allow God to heal their wounded heart.

I saw that you have found a wonderful church family. Their love and prayers will also help you work through this pain that is inside your heart and will help you heart heal from what happened so long ago. It will also help you deepen your relationship with Christ. I was lucky to find several communities who helped me heal. I hope with your new home, you will also be able to do the same.

Please feel free to message me and know you aren’t alone. God loves all of his daughters and although he can’t change the past, he can certainly help us work through the pain. You can do this. If I can work through my messy past, I know God will also give you the courage to do so.

Sending you lots of hugs and many prayers,

SG

 

[LayingHands]

I’m not really sure if this is int he right section. Mods, please feel free to move it if you need to!

I’m really, very sad about this…and I don;t know how to put any of this gently, so I’ll just spit it all out.

I was not baptized or raised Catholic, but I was raised Christian.

When I was 13, I was molested and raped, and had to have an abortion as a direct result. Because of being told by a few people in my life that “I was no longer a virgin, so it was silly of me to hold out for sex until marriage now,” I was not chaste.

I am now 22 years old, and about a year ago, I was Saved, and I discussed with my pastor that I wanted to wait until marriage again, and how much of an issue this was causing with my boyfriend. My pastor assured me that I could be pure again, and that I needed to break up with this boyfriend. I did, and I have grown deeply in my faith.

Recently, I have felt I needed a more structured sense of faith, and the more I read about Catholicism, the more interested I became. Eventually, I decided I wanted to become Catholic, and I looked into talking to a local priest about how to take steps to do this.

While I have managed to deal with the scars of my past, and I consider myself to be a normal young woman, I also am beginning to realize I never dealt with the spiritual damage that my past abuse caused. I have started feeling that confessing my fears, pains, and sinful actions related to this will do me a world of good, and I wanted to get it out of the way before trying to become a member of the church, so I didn’t have it weighing on me.

I never talk to anyone about this. I mean never. After the initial abuse and the abortion, I worked through it all myself- in my head. I never went to counciling, and it is a subject that I never speak to my mother or anyone else about. But I decided to buck up, gather my courage, and be completely upfront about this with the priest so that I could find out how this would affect me.

When I managed to spit all this out to the priest, he looked at me with a deep frown, took a deep breath, and essentially told me (this a shortened version, as I can’t remember word for word), that because I was not Catholic, I could not go to confession and have my sins forgiven. And because I had committed the sins of sex outside of marriage and abortion, I could not enter the Catholic church with those “mortal sins” behind me. So, essentially, he told me “He didn’t really have an answer for me, and that he was very sorry.” And proceeded to encourage me to find faith elsewhere, in a less strict branch of Christianity.

Once I left, I sat by myself for a long time and cried. The church I had so hoped to join can’t accept me. The one church that seems to be the real voice of God, does not want me. And if they don’t want me and can’t forgive me, how can God? How can any church, really?

I’m so lost. I have prayed endlessly about it…but God is silent. I’m desperate enough now, I’m coming here and asking strangers for advice.

What should I do? Where should I go? How do I find forgiveness? I don’t want to go to Hell!:sad_bye:

Don’t lose faith in GOD’s Mercy and Grace, no matter what happens in your life…Never doubt GOD…remember what Jesus said is the Greatest Commandment of all…Our Lord Jesus Christ said " Love your Father GOD with all your heart, mind and soul…this is the Greatest Commandment of All!

Do not doubt GOD has not heard you…and in believing in Him, you must also believe in your heart (where GOD lives), YOURSELF…that He knows, He hears and He feels your pain, honesty and Love of Him…that He understands your experiences, in this life.

I believe there has been a complete injustice, whereby, people believe they can only be forgiven through the interdiction of another person…be it priest, church or parent.

It is most important to go to GOD directly, pray and ask for guidance, strength, healing and visualize the over whelming Light of GOD’s Love surround your being…know He loves you dearly, Daughter of GOD, know He has set all into motion for your future…above all, feel His Love and forgivness…my prayers and love are with you…

 

[Julia_Mae]

When I managed to spit all this out to the priest, he looked at me with a deep frown, took a deep breath, and essentially told me (this a shortened version, as I can’t remember word for word), that because I was not Catholic, I could not go to confession and have my sins forgiven. And because I had committed the sins of sex outside of marriage and abortion, I could not enter the Catholic church with those “mortal sins” behind me. So, essentially, he told me “He didn’t really have an answer for me, and that he was very sorry.” And proceeded to encourage me to find faith elsewhere, in a less strict branch of Christianity.

Wow. I’m so so sorry this happened to you. Especially as hard as it was for you to talk about. If it were me, I’d be completely unable to do that again with some other priest I’d be so devastated. So, good thing you are not me.

Try writing this up as you did here and sending it to the Bishop of your Diocese. Seriously, not to tattle on the priest, but to ask how you can enter the Church. I’m sure you will like the response much better.

God bless you very much and be assured, we all want you to come Home.

 

[JimmytheButcher]

I was not baptized or raised Catholic, but I was raised Christian.

…Because of being told by a few people in my life that “I was no longer a virgin, so it was silly of me to hold out for sex until marriage now,” I was not chaste.

…Recently, I have felt I needed a more structured sense of faith, and the more I read about Catholicism, the more interested I became. Eventually, I decided I wanted to become Catholic, and I looked into talking to a local priest about how to take steps to do this.

…When I managed to spit all this out to the priest, he looked at me with a deep frown, took a deep breath, and essentially told me (this a shortened version, as I can’t remember word for word), that because I was not Catholic, I could not go to confession and have my sins forgiven. And because I had committed the sins of sex outside of marriage and abortion, I could not enter the Catholic church with those “mortal sins” behind me. So, essentially, he told me “He didn’t really have an answer for me, and that he was very sorry.” And proceeded to encourage me to find faith elsewhere, in a less strict branch of Christianity.

Once I left, I sat by myself for a long time and cried. The church I had so hoped to join can’t accept me. The one church that seems to be the real voice of God, does not want me. And if they don’t want me and can’t forgive me, how can God? How can any church, really?

I’m so lost. I have prayed endlessly about it…but God is silent. I’m desperate enough now, I’m coming here and asking strangers for advice.

What should I do? Where should I go? How do I find forgiveness? I don’t want to go to Hell!:sad_bye:

Sometimes we get all caught up in funny words.

What he means to say is this “The process of entering into the Church is through the Sacrament of Baptism. When one has a strong desire of wanting to be forgiven their and a firm resolve to stay away from sin the Sacrament of Baptism is the way by which all of these transgressions are taken care of.”

After Baptism you are a member of the Church. All baptised people are a member of the Church, whether they know it or not, since it is from the Church that the efficacy of the Sacrament of Baptism spirates, or comes from.

Sounds like to me that you have what we call true contrition; that is, intent to be forgiven of and resolve to stay away from future and past mistakes.

I might suggest, that you tell a local priest you are not baptised and that you wish to enter into the Church. You will be guided through the process.

I read a statistic off of a .gov website that says 43% of living American women have had an abortion. You were quite young when this happened. Know that your little one is likely in a spiritual position and praying for you and loving you. It is possible that you have child interceding for you in heaven asking God to grant you graces.

And if it helps… a woman is a virgin if she does not will it.

 

[Cbus]

WOW!!! The priest you talked to was indeed only partially correct. Can you imagine how many converts from paganism in the early church there would not have been if the impediment of committing, “… the sins of sex outside of marriage and abortion” had been applied to them? Don’t think that abortion is some new 20th century invention. The early church fathers wrote about it. To wit:

in 177 AD Athenagoras
wrote this

“What man of sound mind, therefore, will affirm, while such is our character, that we are murderers?
. . . [W]hen we say that those women who use drugs to bring on abortion commit murder, and will have to give an account to God for the abortion, on what principle should we commit murder? For it does not belong to the same person to regard the very fetus in the womb as a created being, and therefore an object of God’s care, and when it has passed into life, to kill it; and not to expose an infant, because those who expose them are chargeable with child-murder, and on the other hand, when it has been reared to destroy it” (A Plea for the Christians 35 [A.D. 177]).

Tertullian wrote:

“In our case, a murder being once for all forbidden, we may not destroy even the fetus in the womb, while as yet the human being derives blood from the other parts of the body for its sustenance. To hinder a birth is merely a speedier man-killing; nor does it matter whether you take away a life that is born, or destroy one that is coming to birth. That is a man which is going to be one; you have the fruit already in its seed” (Apology 9:8 [A.D. 197]).

St. Basil stated:

“Let her that procures abortion undergo ten years’ penance, whether the embryo were perfectly formed, or not” (First Canonical Letter, canon 2 [A.D. 374]).

Baptism will take care of what occurred before you entered the church so you only have to concern yourself with what ocurrs after you enter. So, WELCOME HOME!!!

Where did you get those quotes? They may very well accurate, but they sound some what dubious. They seem way too conveniently written for the pro-life movement.

Now I’m pro-life and would love to use these quotes in my arguments, but I need to know that they are accurate.

 

[joanofarc2008]

I would strongly advise you if you haven’t been given this information already to contact Rachel’s Vineyard - they specialize in post-abortion healing. It is a Catholic program and they will know how to best guide you in your specific situation.

Here is the Link

 

[MarkThompson]

Where did you get those quotes? They may very well accurate, but they sound some what dubious. They seem way too conveniently written for the pro-life movement.

Now I’m pro-life and would love to use these quotes in my arguments, but I need to know that they are accurate.

Just do a search. For instance, the Tertullian quotation is taken from here; you can also find it in an older translation here.

 

[inkaneer]

Where did you get those quotes? They may very well accurate, but they sound some what dubious. They seem way too conveniently written for the pro-life movement.

Now I’m pro-life and would love to use these quotes in my arguments, but I need to know that they are accurate.

I got them from Catholic Answers. Go to the home page and click on ‘READ’ then click on ‘TRACTS’ then click on ‘MORALITY’ then click on ‘ABORTION’

By the way the sources are properly listed so you can go to the Early Church Fathers and find them in their writings yourself.

 

[Spirithound]

Where did you get those quotes? They may very well accurate, but they sound some what dubious. They seem way too conveniently written for the pro-life movement.

Now I’m pro-life and would love to use these quotes in my arguments, but I need to know that they are accurate.

newadvent.org/fathers

 

[IesumPerMariam]

I hate to speculate, but I think perhaps Father was erroneously concerned you would enter the Church already excommunicated, which would make it impossible to receive the Sacraments. To enter the Catholic Church, we must receive the Sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and Eucharist. Thus, if you were preemptively excommunicated, you could not receive the Sacraments necessary to enter the Church.

Abortion does usually result in an automatic (latae sententiae) excommunication in the Catholic Church (Canon 1398), however you were not a Catholic, and thus not bound by the Church’s law (although this is debatable, if you had already been baptized as a Christian – cf. Canon 204 definition of “The Christian Faithful”), and, more significantly, you said you were 13 years old at the time, and Canon 1323 states that one cannot be canonically punished (i.e. excommunicated) if they are not at least 16 at the time of the offense. So fear of entering the Church already excommunicated seems to be, in this situation, unfounded.

Please do find a different priest to speak with. Or go straight to the Office of the Bishop. The Church absolutely has the power, through Christ, to forgive the sin of abortion, provided the person is truly repentant. Thus, there is no reason this should prevent you from entering the Church. If the Church refused to accept new members who had committed mortal sins, she would only have two members: Jesus Christ and His Mother Mary.

Don’t despair in Christ’s Mercy though. If He is calling you into the Church at this point (as He clearly is), He will lead you there. “[T]here shall be more joy in heaven upon one sinner that doth penance, more than upon ninety-nine just who need not penance” (Luke 15, 7). Perhaps you could consider this negative experience with an ill-advised priest to be part of your penance for your sins.

 

[iloveangels]

I’m not really sure if this is int he right section. Mods, please feel free to move it if you need to!

I’m really, very sad about this…and I don;t know how to put any of this gently, so I’ll just spit it all out.

I was not baptized or raised Catholic, but I was raised Christian

…

Once I left, I sat by myself for a long time and cried. The church I had so hoped to join can’t accept me. The one church that seems to be the real voice of God, does not want me. And if they don’t want me and can’t forgive me, how can God? How can any church, really?

I’m so lost. I have prayed endlessly about it…but God is silent. I’m desperate enough now, I’m coming here and asking strangers for advice.

What should I do? Where should I go? How do I find forgiveness? I don’t want to go to Hell!:sad_bye:

I’m not sure about the whole story there with the priest, what happened or what all went on…

That said, what you really need is not a priest but a psychologist so that you can work through the abuse you have endured and get healthy enough to make decisions like joining the church. Finding that person to help you get through all that and help you move from an abused 13-year old to now is your first task.

It is true that a conference with a priest cannot contain a sacramental absolution if the person isn’t catholic. On the other hand, if you are working toward getting healthy, praying and aiming to join the church while keeping in touch with a priest and a parish, and going to church on Sunday, I think God would surely honor that. I wouldn’t worry too much about going to hell as long as you are working on this. God knows the world is a pretty messy place and you didn’t mean for this to happen.

Keep your chin up, keep working on this and Welcome!!! ahead of time. We would love to have you here with us. Just take care of the things you need to and keep coming this way.

 

[iloveangels]

…

There’s no such thing as pre-emptive excommunication.

 

[graceandglory]

Remember that there is no sin too big for Jesus to forgive.

I think there have been some misunderstandings between you and the priest.

Re: abortion, the act is always grievous, and never justified. But, with repentance and firm resolve not to repeat that sin, of course it is forgiveable.

For your healing, please consider attending a Rachel’s Vineyard retreat weekend.
rachelsvineyard.org/weekend/2007-retreat-schedule.htm

Rachel’s Vineyard is a Catholic ministry but attendees do not have to be Catholic.

I pray you can avail yourself of this retreat. I think it would be a wonderful thing to do as you prepare to come into the Church. God bless you. Jesus loves you, and I love you.

 

[SecretGarden]

I also know that the Sisters of Life also run post abortive weekends too. If you google post abortive help, you’ll find that there are lots of organizations, not all Catholic but definitely Christian who also provides such services.

In addition, I think you should know that God knows you and although you aren’t yet Catholic, it doesn’t mean that God doesn’t forgive you. If you ask God to forgive you, He will regardless if a priest is present or not. Confession takes it to another level and it is a beautiful sacrament when done with all of your heart. It can help with the healing process. I know someone who it helped a great deal. But please know that what happened wasn’t your fault and that God does love you and HE will help you heal from that difficult time. God is wonderful that way. When you ask for help, He does come through. In my case, Catholicism really helped me heal from my past. I hope it can also help you.

 

[x1980x]

…And because I had committed the sins of sex outside of marriage and abortion, I could not enter the Catholic church with those “mortal sins” behind me. So, essentially, he told me “He didn’t really have an answer for me, and that he was very sorry.” …

(((SeekingDaughter)))

I am aware of no Christian group that has such a policy. Such a thing would be antithetical to the entire meaning of the message of Jesus Christ - in my opinion, just claiming that someone with these sins could not repent and join a church indicates that the person does not know Him. It doesn’t matter what your sins are. Jesus came to forgive the fornicator and the murderer just as much as the thief and the idolater and the extortionist and the slaver and the junkie and the blasphemer and the perjurer.

God is no respecter of persons.

 

[IesumPerMariam]

There’s no such thing as pre-emptive excommunication.

“Pre-emptive” may not be the most precise word, but in the wake of Vatican II, it seems it’s entirely up to interpretation who is subject to Canon Law:

“Can. 11 Merely ecclesiastical laws bind those who have been baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it, possess the efficient use of reason, and, unless the law expressly provides otherwise, have completed seven years of age.”

(but…)

Decree Unitatis redintegratio
3. “For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect.”

“Can. 96 By baptism one is incorporated into the Church of Christ and is constituted a person in it with the duties and rights which are proper to Christians in keeping with their condition, insofar as they are in ecclesiastical communion and unless a legitimately issued sanction stands in the way.”

“Can. 204 §1. The Christian faithful are those who, inasmuch as they have been incorporated in Christ through baptism, have been constituted as the people of God. For this reason, made sharers in their own way in Christ’s priestly, prophetic, and royal function, they are called to exercise the mission which God has entrusted to the Church to fulfill in the world, in accord with the condition proper to each.”

“Can. 205 Those baptized are fully in the communion of the Catholic Church on this earth who are joined with Christ in its visible structure by the bonds of the profession of faith, the sacraments, and ecclesiastical governance.”

(It becomes extremely confusing precisely whom the Church considers to be her members…)

“Can. 1311 The Church has the innate and proper right to coerce offending members of the Christian faithful with penal sanctions.”

“Can. 1314 Generally, a penalty is ferendae sententiae, so that it does not bind the guilty party until after it has been imposed; if the law or precept expressly establishes it, however, a penalty is latae sententiae, so that it is incurred ipso facto when the delict is committed.”

Theoretically, it seems, depending on an Ordinary’s interpretation, one could perhaps have incurred a latae sententiae excommunication as a member of the “Christian faithful” (i.e. anyone who has been baptized) despite being in “imperfect” communion. Of course, one would hope this hypothetical should never prevent someone from entering into full communion who sincerely wishes to.

 

[iloveangels]

“Pre-emptive” may not be the most precise word, but in the wake of Vatican II, it seems it’s entirely up to interpretation who is subject to Canon Law:

“Can. 11 Merely ecclesiastical laws bind those who have been baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it, possess the efficient use of reason, and, unless the law expressly provides otherwise, have completed seven years of age.”

(but…)

Decree Unitatis redintegratio
3. “For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect.”

“Can. 96 By baptism one is incorporated into the Church of Christ and is constituted a person in it with the duties and rights which are proper to Christians in keeping with their condition, insofar as they are in ecclesiastical communion and unless a legitimately issued sanction stands in the way.”

“Can. 204 §1. The Christian faithful are those who, inasmuch as they have been incorporated in Christ through baptism, have been constituted as the people of God. For this reason, made sharers in their own way in Christ’s priestly, prophetic, and royal function, they are called to exercise the mission which God has entrusted to the Church to fulfill in the world, in accord with the condition proper to each.”

“Can. 205 Those baptized are fully in the communion of the Catholic Church on this earth who are joined with Christ in its visible structure by the bonds of the profession of faith, the sacraments, and ecclesiastical governance.”

(It becomes extremely confusing precisely whom the Church considers to be her members…)

“Can. 1311 The Church has the innate and proper right to coerce offending members of the Christian faithful with penal sanctions.”

“Can. 1314 Generally, a penalty is ferendae sententiae, so that it does not bind the guilty party until after it has been imposed; if the law or precept expressly establishes it, however, a penalty is latae sententiae, so that it is incurred ipso facto when the delict is committed.”

Theoretically, it seems, depending on an Ordinary’s interpretation, one could perhaps have incurred a latae sententiae excommunication as a member of the “Christian faithful” (i.e. anyone who has been baptized) despite being in “imperfect” communion. Of course, one would hope this hypothetical should never prevent someone from entering into full communion who sincerely wishes to.

Nonsense. You can’t get thrown out of the Catholic church if you’re not yet in it. Don’t let your imagination run away with you.

 

[Spirithound]

“Can. 11 Merely ecclesiastical laws bind those who have been baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it, possess the efficient use of reason, and, unless the law expressly provides otherwise, have completed seven years of age.”

“Can. 1311 The Church has the innate and proper right to coerce offending members of the Christian faithful with penal sanctions.”

Theoretically, it seems, depending on an Ordinary’s interpretation…

If an Ordinary needs to interpret it, then the excommunication moves into the external forum, ferendae sententiae. Do not heap troubles upon the woman. It is well established that only those people specified in Canon 11 are subject to excommunication.

 

[figs]

Also, from what I have understood and read, don’t you have to be AWARE it is a grave sin, proceed with this knowlege in defiance of the Church and MUST BE completely aware of automatic excomunication, as a result?

In other words, even if you did it in defiance of Church teaching if you did NOT know about automatic excomunication, you cannot be excomunicated and are not considered such.

Considering she (OP) didn’t appear to know about Church teaching at the time she had the abortion, that seems to remove the question of it being a grave sin.