Ungrateful grown children

[TLM08]

My 22 year old daughter moved back to the nest last year after cohabitating with a nice, polite but spiritually “lost” young man. She showed up on our front porch at 3am one night after catching him basically “pants down” with another girl. The guy was truly likable, but came from a highly dysfunctional background with no father figure whatsoever. She wouldn’t listen whenever I tried to warn her about approaching problems. But by and large, her attitude toward her mother and I was wonderful. With less than a year of school left, to keep her from having to go into school debt, and at my wife’s urging, I agreed to allow her to come back to the nest since she claimed to have no time to do anything but work, pay bills, go to school and study.

Since that time, she has all kinds of money for partying, friends, new clothing and plenty of free time. She frequently stays out all night and comes and goes as she pleases. She almost never helps out around the house. In a nutshell, it’s like she turned right back into an ungrateful, selfish, nasty teenager. The only time she speaks to me is when she wants something… you guessed it: MONEY! She only will talk to us if she feels like it or needs something. The whole thing is simply unreal! Like I said, when she was on her own, she was great.


If I had to do it all over again, I would have NOT allowed her to come back home. My wife is a terrible enabler when it comes to discipline and the kid (all long since grown) have used this to divide us as parents. My daughter does study hard and will be graduating in a couple of months. To avoid disrespect from her, I just keep quite knowing that she will move out after graduation because employment in this field is plentiful… It’s gotten to the point where I can’t stand even the sight of her because she has me over a barrel and she knows it. My resentment toward her is burning deeper by the day because of this.

My wife just keeps telling me 4 more months… 3 more months… etc. Am I right to just keep my mouth shut? …for now? …forever?

 

[1ke]

Your daughter does not have you over a barrel. Your wife does. You refuse to stand up to your wife and demand respect. I would presume this is a long-term pattern. And, it is teaching your daughter a poor lesson-- how to disrespect her future husband and spoil her future kids.

Personally, I would have put a stop to your daughter’s behavior months ago, but now is better than never. There would be new rules posted on the wall by the time she gets home today, including a reasonable rent amount, and a U-Haul phone number at the bottom under the clause “if you decide not to abide by the house rules.”

You can only be taken advantage of if you allow it.

 

[TLM08]

Your daughter does not have you over a barrel. Your wife does. You refuse to stand up to your wife and demand respect. I would presume this is a long-term pattern. And, it is teaching your daughter a poor lesson-- how to disrespect her future husband and spoil her future kids.

Personally, I would have put a stop to your daughter’s behavior months ago, but now is better than never. There would be new rules posted on the wall by the time she gets home today, including a reasonable rent amount, and a U-Haul phone number at the bottom under the clause “if you decide not to abide by the house rules.”

You can only be taken advantage of if you allow it.

I fully agree with you…especially about the future husband and kids. But my wife is far more tolerant than you and I. This is non-negotiable with her. Years ago, I would put my foot down over her permissiveness and it almost cost me my marriage. I’ve had to learn to pick my battles. It’s also doubtful that she would have been able to finish school without allowing her to move back in. I sincerely appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut.
Thanks.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

1KE advice is sorta good.

But I would couch it in different terms:

“Dear, as your parents it is our job to prepare you for the real world you will be entering in 75 days, 5 hours 20 minutes and 27 seconds, but who’s counting?”

To break you into the real world easily we forthwith present to you the kind of things you will have to do so as not to be evicted from the apartment you are hunting for right now, and the job you are applying for right now. You ARE looking RIGHT???

1. For the next 75 days, 5 hours 20 minutes and 27 seconds you will pay rent, every 4 weeks, at $x amount. We accept cash or check. YOU DO HAVE A CHECKING ACCOUNT, RIGHT?
2. Your laundry is your responsibility.
3. We have designated a shelf in the refrigerator with your name on it. You are responsible for filling it. If you don’t fill it, you don’t eat. Do not eat our food, or we will bill you for that.
4. Your bathroom sanitation efforts are your responsibility. As is cleaning your space. If your mother is forced by the Dept. of Health to take matters into her own hands, you will be billed for the fumigator and maid service.
5. Failure to “clock in” or come home at night will result in a warning. Several warnings will cause you to have to look for a new apartment sooner than 75 days, 5 hours 20 minutes and 27 seconds from now. (This is practice for having to answer to a boss. They are not as nice as your mother.)

Darling Daughter, this effort is not to punish you. It is out of love. When we kick baby bird out of the nest, we want her to be able to fly and find worms on her own. We do not want her to return and we have to keep her in a shoe box and feed her with an eye dropper for the rest of her life. It is time for you to start acting like a real adult, not a teenager. If you persist in acting like a teenager, you will have the same curfews and restrictions as a teenager. And if you think we don’t know what we are talking about, remember we’re the same people who warned you about your loser boyfriend.

See? You present it in terms of preparing her for that “real world” she thinks she is ready for.

Your real talk needs to be with your wife and asking her if she wants to cripple your daughter and make her unable to take care of herself. A good parent eventually does themself out of a job. If your wife’s issues are a need to be needed, she has to see that her attempts to coddle a full grown adult are harmful in the long run. Real love doesn’t handicap a child like that. (Take that from someone whose ex is living with his mommy at age 46 and abuses her and behaves like a 12 year old boy. Never learned to do his own laundry.)

 

[MarieVeronica]

Oh my. I will keep you and your wife in my prayers. I have no children of my own… but this whole thing reminds me of what happened… between my mother and my younger sister.

When my sister was in her 20’s… and attending Community College… our mother started “enabling” her. Mom coddled and “babied” her, all the way through college and well beyond. My sister did earn an Associate of Arts degree. But along the way, she also developed a drinking problem and a financial dependency on mother… that she carries, to this day. She will be 49, this year.

My mother is now completely disabled and in my care. The result of her “coddling” and “babying” of my sister… is that my sister is now looking to ME (and our older sister) for assistance. She is quite dysfunctional, she has been away from the Church for over 30 years and has consistent problems both financially and emotionally. I’ve had to do something that mother wasn’t able to do… all those years. I’ve had to enforce “Tough Love” on my sister, many times… by denying her the financial support she seeks.

But this has more or less, forced her to take care of herself. She is working (although just enough to survive) and no longer drinks. My older sister and I, both greatly worry about our younger sister. But we realize, that our actions are for her own good. If we gave in to her now… as mother always did… she would be an unemployed, nearly 50 year old alcoholic.

I do send her a little food money, now and then. Or a gift card. But whenever she asks for larger assistance… my answer is “Sorry”.

God bless you. You’re in a tough situation.

 

[monicatholic]

Am I right to just keep my mouth shut?

no. and if you can’t follow Liberan’s script (you should, it’s a great one) you sure as heck don’t need your wife’s permission to sit your girl down and give her a morality talk.

and stop giveion her money.

of our ten, four are grown. i have drawn lines in sand that had to become written in stone.

i gotta answer to God for my participation in their immorality. so… i’m not participating.

 

[GerlyOne]

My 22 year old daughter moved back to the nest last year after cohabitating with a nice, polite but spiritually “lost” young man. She showed up on our front porch at 3am one night after catching him basically “pants down” with another girl. The guy was truly likable, but came from a highly dysfunctional background with no father figure whatsoever. She wouldn’t listen whenever I tried to warn her about approaching problems. But by and large, her attitude toward her mother and I was wonderful. With less than a year of school left, to keep her from having to go into school debt, and at my wife’s urging, I agreed to allow her to come back to the nest since she claimed to have no time to do anything but work, pay bills, go to school and study.

Since that time, she has all kinds of money for partying, friends, new clothing and plenty of free time. She frequently stays out all night and comes and goes as she pleases. She almost never helps out around the house. In a nutshell, it’s like she turned right back into an ungrateful, selfish, nasty teenager. The only time she speaks to me is when she wants something… you guessed it: MONEY! She only will talk to us if she feels like it or needs something. The whole thing is simply unreal! Like I said, when she was on her own, she was great.


If I had to do it all over again, I would have NOT allowed her to come back home. My wife is a terrible enabler when it comes to discipline and the kid (all long since grown) have used this to divide us as parents. My daughter does study hard and will be graduating in a couple of months. To avoid disrespect from her, I just keep quite knowing that she will move out after graduation because employment in this field is plentiful… It’s gotten to the point where I can’t stand even the sight of her because she has me over a barrel and she knows it. My resentment toward her is burning deeper by the day because of this.

My wife just keeps telling me 4 more months… 3 more months… etc. Am I right to just keep my mouth shut? …for now? …forever?

It’s your dog gone house, why would you even think you had to keep your mouth shut??? You tell that selfish, ungrateful brat exactly what you’re thinking and tell her to grow the hell up! For crying out loud…also what is she doing to atone for living “in sin” with her boyfriend? Have you spoken to her about going to reconciliation, etc.?

Come on! You’re always so witty with your words, I’m sure you can think of something to shoot her way that will leave her stunned and dumbfounded, you know…knock her into reality! Good luck

 

[TLM08]

It’s your dog gone house, why would you even think you had to keep your mouth shut??? You tell that selfish, ungrateful brat exactly what you’re thinking and tell her to grow the hell up! For crying out loud…also what is she doing to atone for living “in sin” with her boyfriend? Have you spoken to her about going to reconciliation, etc.?

Come on! You’re always so witty with your words, I’m sure you can think of something to shoot her way that will leave her stunned and dumbfounded, you know…knock her into reality! Good luck

Are you serious? Do you really think most (not all) young people these days have any concept of sin?

Yes… I agree fully! …and I have done all of the above… many times. She’s taken advantage of me and her mother. But she’s also fully aware that the jig is up come June.

I am confident that she would have not made it the rest of the way through school without our help, due to her immaturity, lack of character, and personal discipline. I’ve chosen to take the beating so she doesn’t have to mop floors and clean toilets the rest of her life.

My resentment is burning deep because of it.

 

[TLM08]

no. and if you can’t follow Liberan’s script (you should, it’s a great one) you sure as heck don’t need your wife’s permission to sit your girl down and give her a morality talk.

and stop giveion her money.

of our ten, four are grown. i have drawn lines in sand that had to become written in stone.

i gotta answer to God for my participation in their immorality. so… i’m not participating.

I know how men were able to maintain control of their households for centuries until liberalism infected the legal systems of western culture and started locking up fathers who acted to protect their daughters from themselves and the world.

When she was thirteen she got caught shoplifting. My wife brought her home and she got a good old fashioned butt whipping. She never did it again and years later, she thanked me for it. But she’s a little too old for that now!


I’m not her dribbling cash machine. I’ve paid her tuition because she never has any money for it… Yea, I know, but if I don’t pay it she won’t graduate.

She knows once she graduates… she’s out of here and she’s NOT coming back!

 

[monicatholic]

she doesn’t have to mop floors and clean toilets the rest of her life.

a few years of this would have done her good. i’m not writing from some perch of abstraction. we have grown kids. we say no.

tlm, here’s what’s news: when the gig’s up in june (i.e.) graduation, the gig won’t be up. she’ll be talking ‘tough economic times/ bad job market’ just like everybody else. graduation isn’t going to graduate the ungrateful mendicant outa your kid.

refusals to bail her out might. or should she call you Obama?

 

[TLM08]

Oh my. I will keep you and your wife in my prayers. I have no children of my own… but this whole thing reminds me of what happened… between my mother and my younger sister.

When my sister was in her 20’s… and attending Community College… our mother started “enabling” her. Mom coddled and “babied” her, all the way through college and well beyond. My sister did earn an Associate of Arts degree. But along the way, she also developed a drinking problem and a financial dependency on mother… that she carries, to this day. She will be 49, this year.

My mother is now completely disabled and in my care. The result of her “coddling” and “babying” of my sister… is that my sister is now looking to ME (and our older sister) for assistance. She is quite dysfunctional, she has been away from the Church for over 30 years and has consistent problems both financially and emotionally. I’ve had to do something that mother wasn’t able to do… all those years. I’ve had to enforce “Tough Love” on my sister, many times… by denying her the financial support she seeks.

But this has more or less, forced her to take care of herself. She is working (although just enough to survive) and no longer drinks. My older sister and I, both greatly worry about our younger sister. But we realize, that our actions are for her own good. If we gave in to her now… as mother always did… she would be an unemployed, nearly 50 year old alcoholic.

I do send her a little food money, now and then. Or a gift card. But whenever she asks for larger assistance… my answer is “Sorry”.

God bless you. You’re in a tough situation.

I can appreciate your situation and feel for you. Our situation is a little bit different. My daughter is chomping at the bit to move out. My wife’s enabling is a little more limited than your mom’s was. I know it’s done out of love… but sometimes love must be tough.

There will be no handouts once she’s moved out of here. I’ve been raising kids for almost 30 years and I am done!

Thanks for the prayers…

 

[VivienneJ]

Ouch TLM, your post could so easly have been my words 4 years ago.

Only I was the one who had been the enabler, a very bad experience my daughter had, but I enabled her to feel sorry for herself for far too long and an expectation of entitlement developed. 8 years ago I had seen, with the help of my priest and a Christian therapist what was happening and stopped the enabling.

I wish it could have been as easy to do as it was to write. It took years! Then she had to move back home, also for very good reasons as your daughter did. I suddenly had a rude, lazy, sullen, rebellious 24 year old teenager living in my home.

Now you are hoping I tell you how I coped with the whole situation and transformed her.

Sorry, I can only say I understand your pain. In my case, at the point when our priest was about to give her some serious choices (practical support for me as a single mother) she got a job in another city and far away from where I lived. We get on much better the futher away we live from each other. But I still have to watch out for times when she tries to manipulate me into where she wants me.

I pray that your wife comes to realise the damage she does by enabling and I do think you should establish some ground rules with her for how you respond in future to any crisis in your daughter’s life.

May prayer and patience carry you through to June and may you never be in this situation again.

 

[Beautiful]

1KE advice is sorta good.

But I would couch it in different terms:

“Dear, as your parents it is our job to prepare you for the real world you will be entering in 75 days, 5 hours 20 minutes and 27 seconds, but who’s counting?”

To break you into the real world easily we forthwith present to you the kind of things you will have to do so as not to be evicted from the apartment you are hunting for right now, and the job you are applying for right now. You ARE looking RIGHT???

1. For the next 75 days, 5 hours 20 minutes and 27 seconds you will pay rent, every 4 weeks, at $x amount. We accept cash or check. YOU DO HAVE A CHECKING ACCOUNT, RIGHT?
2. Your laundry is your responsibility.
3. We have designated a shelf in the refrigerator with your name on it. You are responsible for filling it. If you don’t fill it, you don’t eat. Do not eat our food, or we will bill you for that.
4. Your bathroom sanitation efforts are your responsibility. As is cleaning your space. If your mother is forced by the Dept. of Health to take matters into her own hands, you will be billed for the fumigator and maid service.
5. Failure to “clock in” or come home at night will result in a warning. Several warnings will cause you to have to look for a new apartment sooner than 75 days, 5 hours 20 minutes and 27 seconds from now. (This is practice for having to answer to a boss. They are not as nice as your mother.)

Darling Daughter, this effort is not to punish you. It is out of love. When we kick baby bird out of the nest, we want her to be able to fly and find worms on her own. We do not want her to return and we have to keep her in a shoe box and feed her with an eye dropper for the rest of her life. It is time for you to start acting like a real adult, not a teenager. If you persist in acting like a teenager, you will have the same curfews and restrictions as a teenager. And if you think we don’t know what we are talking about, remember we’re the same people who warned you about your loser boyfriend.

A good parent eventually does themself out of a job.

A good parent eventually does themself out of a job :yup:
My hope is to end up feeling as useful as a human appendix…infected or not.

Your rules are great.
I’d like to add one more.
Parents need to be observant of money spent by adultchild. If he/she buys one more pair of shoes or tube of makeup or etc. they really don’t need (parents set standards) then the cost of that that item gets tacked on the monthly rent. If an adult child is living at home for financial reasons then it is prudent that the adultchild learn to save every penny towards getting out on their own. Living in parent’s home should never be an excuse to enjoy luxury they really can’t afford.

 

[Cat]

Are you serious? Do you really think most (not all) young people these days have any concept of sin?

Yes… I agree fully! …and I have done all of the above… many times. She’s taken advantage of me and her mother. But she’s also fully aware that the jig is up come June.

No she isn’t. She’ll use you for the rest of your life. I agree with monicatholic–next it will be the economy, and you’ll let her move in with you to avoid living in a walk-up flat above a bar/brothel on the bad side of town.

I am confident that she would have not made it the rest of the way through school without our help, due to her immaturity, lack of character, and personal discipline. I’ve chosen to take the beating so she doesn’t have to mop floors and clean toilets the rest of her life.

Don’t you see? You’re proud of what you’ve done. You think you’ve done a good thing. You’re blind to the truth.

And you still think your daughter is a helpless little girl. You aren’t allowing her to grow up and fail and lose all her money and lose a job and start over like all the rest of us grownups.

The reason she has no maturity, character, or personal discipline is that you’ve not allowed her to fail, ever. You’ve bailed her out of trouble every time. I’ll bet when she forgot her lunch at school, you or your wife rushed the lunch or the money to her so she wouldn’t be hungry. Too bad. If you had let her sit hungry, she wouldn’t have forgotten her lunch again.

Failing is how character is built.

You’re also acting like a snob. There’s absolutely nothing wrong or inferior about mopping floors and cleaning toilets. Better an honest living than freeloading.

No it isn’t. You’re proud of yourselves.

We have two grown daughters (23 and 25). We help them out a great deal, but in return, they give us back so much. They are trustworthy, hard-working, thrifty, and upright in their morality. So it’s an even trade.

In your case, all the eggs are in HER basket, and you have nothing but a pile of eggshells that you are trying very hard not to step on.

You should STAND UP TO YOUR WIFE and do the right thing for your daughter. She despises you for being a weakling. Stand up to her, tell her that things are going to change. Get another man (NOT A WOMAN!!) to be your mentor, a man who has raised a family successfully, and enlist his prayer and practical support. Then do it. Your wife may wail and rant and threaten to leave you, but in the end, she will stick with you and be PROUD of you.

If you do not do these things, your daughter will turn out like your wife, and the cycle will start over again.

 

[kage_ar]

What school is she graduating from where she is guaranteed to get a job? I wanna send MY kid there. Heck, my husband’s degree did not come with that kinda promise. He would be happy to go back and get one of 'em too.

You know what, no one has ever died from paying their own way through school.

Bet you lunch that your daughter lives with you or you are still supporting her 2 years from now.

 

[IrishAm]

Bet you lunch that your daughter lives with you or you are still supporting her 2 years from now.

Sadly, I agree. You’ve done your daughter no favors . . . or your marriage, my friend.

 

[MarieVeronica]

Sadly, I agree. You’ve done your daughter no favors . . . or your marriage, my friend.

I sadly must agree, too. This is the point I was attempting to make… in sharing my sister’s story. She is so messed up now… at almost age 50… I don’t know what is going to happen to her. I dread, that at some point… she will be homeless. This nearly happened to her, last year… when she was late with her rent. She was almost tossed out of her apartment.

The choices you and your wife make now… in regard to your daughter… could effect not only the two of you… but HER, well into her later life. :nope:

Again, my prayers are with you.

 

[whatevergirl]

Hi TLM;

I have two kids, 12 and 16 yrs old, and I can only imagine, when they grow to be adults…on their own, how hard it will be to watch them make mistakes…the desire to shelter our kids from the consequences of every bad action they take, must be highly tempting. I don’t blame your wife, but…at this point…you both have to help her to get on her own two feet, and make a way for herself in the world.

As parents we think we are helping our kids, but cleaning up all of their messes, but how will they ever grow and learn like that? The best things we can do for our kids …is to love them, and prepare them for life…

Now, the only way I would permit her to remain at home, is she’d have to be working, giving some money for rent, food, basic things like this…as if she were out on her own. I would also expect her to not be showing up at all hours of the night, partying and sleeping in until noon. No. If she agrees to live there, she needs to respect that she can’t act like that…

Hopefully, she will get out on her own soon, and try to get her life together…God bless, and praying for you and your family, TLM.

 

[Cat]

Hi TLM;

I have two kids, 12 and 16 yrs old, and I can only imagine, when they grow to be adults…on their own, how hard it will be to watch them make mistakes…the desire to shelter our kids from the consequences of every bad action they take, must be highly tempting. I don’t blame your wife, but…at this point…you both have to help her to get on her own two feet, and make a way for herself in the world.

As parents we think we are helping our kids, but cleaning up all of their messes, but how will they ever grow and learn like that? The best things we can do for our kids …is to love them, and prepare them for life…

Now, the only way I would permit her to remain at home, is she’d have to be working, giving some money for rent, food, basic things like this…as if she were out on her own. I would also expect her to not be showing up at all hours of the night, partying and sleeping in until noon. No. If she agrees to live there, she needs to respect that she can’t act like that…

Hopefully, she will get out on her own soon, and try to get her life together…God bless, and praying for you and your family, TLM.

boldface mine. Why should she? She has it made right now.

She needs a reason to get out on her own, a reason to try to get her life together. Hoping isn’t going to do it. Action is sorely needed here.

I’m sorry to sound so mean, but I think there has been a little too much misplaced love in this situation, and the result is going to be another misfit of society that our tax dollars will support after mom and dad are gone. I absolutely HATE seeing perfectly good, healthy people ruined by misguided parents who are afraid that their kid won’t love them if they upset them. It’s so sad to see this waste of human potential.

Parents have to be tough. They have to be parents, not pals, to their children.

 

[CB_Catholic]

Are you serious? Do you really think most (not all) young people these days have any concept of sin?

Yes… I agree fully! …and I have done all of the above… many times. She’s taken advantage of me and her mother. But she’s also fully aware that the jig is up come June.

I am confident that she would have not made it the rest of the way through school without our help, due to her immaturity, lack of character, and personal discipline. I’ve chosen to take the beating so she doesn’t have to mop floors and clean toilets the rest of her life.

My resentment is burning deep because of it.

You may be underestimating your kid. I had one like that. I was paying tuition and room and board for her to have one big party at school. I thought it was my duty as a parent to provide this education, etc. When she came home she wouldn’t help around the house, had a real bad attitude, was argumentative, etc. You get the picture. She is very intelligent, but her grades were poor. One day she actually managed to forge her grades and the report card got sent home and we caught it. That opened my eyes big time.

I called her up, told her to pack, withdrew her from the university, and we picked her up and brought her home. From that time on she was responsible for her education and her life. The pocketbook was closed. And boy did I feel guilty doing that, like I had abandoned her. She got a job, and started paying something towards living here, plus bought an old beat up car to take her places and to work. She had it tough, the job wasn’t that well-paying. She worked a semester and then transferred to the University in town, took out student loans and worked full time and went to school and graduated magna cum laude (the grades from the other place did not transfer). I couldn’t believe it. Then she got herself into graduate school, still worked and got loans and a scholarship. I did send her some food money and some spending money now and then. She got her Master’s and was going to start on a Doctorate, but decided to get married instead, and got a well-paying job. They even paid for their own wedding.
I would have never thought she would do all this. She was always a little lazy in school, dependent on us, didn’t want to take on any real challenges, just wanted to sort of slide through life. But she had it in her, it just took a wake-up call to get her off her butt.

She totally lost her dependence on us and is proud of her accomplishments. I think it is a miracle. Don’t underestimate what your daughter can do, if she has the right motivation. And that motivation just might be what is called “tough love”.