Ungrateful grown children

[Serap]

I was on my own from 18 years onwards. I put myself through university and and created a life for myself. I was in dept and broke until I was 30. It was tough. I don’t want my daughter to have to endure a life as hard as mine was.

Having said that, I also don’t want a spoiled brat I will let her stay at home with my husband and I as long as she likes. She can move out when she’s ready, BUT there WILL be boundaries. Coming home late and sleeping until noon won’t be acceptable. I will wake her up by 10:30 a.m. and she will be expected to help me around the house Saturday mornings. I will expect her to come to church with me on Sunday mornings. That will be expected of her from about 14 years onwards. She will be expected to participate in keeping the house clean. She will be expected to cook a couple of times a week for the family. She will be expected to clean the kitchen after dinner, etc.

We will pay for her university, etc., but she will have to live by our rules if she stays with us. We will pay for her wedding, etc., but she will also learn respect.

We are a first generation southern Italian household, so I think culture comes into play here also.

Having said all of that, TLM, your daughter sounds really spoiled and I think your wife has been the culprit. If I were disrespected, I would feel the same way you do.

I don’t think she should be kicked out, but the rules need to change. Your wife needs to be on the same page though. I don’t think she is.

I hope it works out for you TLM. You seem like a nice man and I can imagine how frustrating the situation must be.

 

[thomfra]

Just ride it out man. Don’t let people on this thread get your fired up with their dubious tales of “tough love”…

How about you just try and enjoy the last few months with her before she is out on her own. She can’t be all bad.

It’s always gona be tough to share a house with adult children.

 

[_wifey]

Are you serious? Do you really think most (not all) young people these days have any concept of sin?

Yes… I agree fully! …and I have done all of the above… many times. She’s taken advantage of me and her mother. But she’s also fully aware that the jig is up come June.

I am confident that she would have not made it the rest of the way through school without our help, due to her immaturity, lack of character, and personal discipline. I’ve chosen to take the beating so she doesn’t have to mop floors and clean toilets the rest of her life.

My resentment is burning deep because of it.

I know I’m just going to sound mean, but as a 24 year old girl who had it “tough” because of a mother who to this day still has a dad who bails her out, why do you think your daughter is immature and lacks character and discipline? If she truly does, it is because that is how you raised her! I agree with the idea of a “contract” including rent, curfews, and cleanliness. As a freshman in college I could not afford to live on campus and I was blessed to have a cousin who invited me into her home…so long as I was willing to pay “rent”, be home by midnight, not allow boys over when they were gone and never into my room (I was not a Christian at the time), help with dinner twice a week and surprise get up and go to class. I resented it at first, but looking back, that was by far one of the best experiences I have ever had. It taught me how to budget and accept responsibility, something my mother never was able to teach me.
I’ll be praying for you and your family.

God bless.

 

[Serap]

Another thing…what if you made her pay rent and then put that money into a savings account for her? You could then give it back to her when she finally leaves the nest?

 

[mesurman]

My 22 year old daughter moved back to the nest last year after cohabitating with a nice, polite but spiritually “lost” young man. She showed up on our front porch at 3am one night after catching him basically “pants down” with another girl. The guy was truly likable, but came from a highly dysfunctional background with no father figure whatsoever. She wouldn’t listen whenever I tried to warn her about approaching problems. But by and large, her attitude toward her mother and I was wonderful. With less than a year of school left, to keep her from having to go into school debt, and at my wife’s urging, I agreed to allow her to come back to the nest since she claimed to have no time to do anything but work, pay bills, go to school and study.

Since that time, she has all kinds of money for partying, friends, new clothing and plenty of free time. She frequently stays out all night and comes and goes as she pleases. She almost never helps out around the house. In a nutshell, it’s like she turned right back into an ungrateful, selfish, nasty teenager. The only time she speaks to me is when she wants something… you guessed it: MONEY! She only will talk to us if she feels like it or needs something. The whole thing is simply unreal! Like I said, when she was on her own, she was great.


If I had to do it all over again, I would have NOT allowed her to come back home. My wife is a terrible enabler when it comes to discipline and the kid (all long since grown) have used this to divide us as parents. My daughter does study hard and will be graduating in a couple of months. To avoid disrespect from her, I just keep quite knowing that she will move out after graduation because employment in this field is plentiful… It’s gotten to the point where I can’t stand even the sight of her because she has me over a barrel and she knows it. My resentment toward her is burning deeper by the day because of this.

My wife just keeps telling me 4 more months… 3 more months… etc. Am I right to just keep my mouth shut? …for now? …forever?

Sir,

I feel your pain. I have a similar situation. No enabling by either my wife or I but we have a 22 year old daughter who made two mistakes and now has a beautiful 9 month old daughter and both live with us. It is too much to go into but sometimes as fathers and husbands we have to keep a lid on our emotions in order to keep the family unit together. I understand your frustration and have been praying much in the last 18 months or so that God’s Will shall be done and that I will not do anything to affect His will. We both must quietly bear our cross. I will pray for you, your wife and your daughter. God bless.

P.S. We do make her pay some expenses, she does work part time and her alleged fiance is a neerdowell, but that is another story.

 

[whatevergirl]

I think the main problem here is TLM’s daughter’s behavior, not that she is living there. If she was working, paying some rent, being responsible and considerate…we wouldn’t be saying she needs to hurry up and get out.

I lost my parents, my dad to cancer when I was 9…and my mom was in a car accident, died when I was 10. I had a brotherinlaw who didn’t like me, for the most part, and I couldn’t wait to get out of the house. I wish I had parents to fall back on, so while we talk about tough love a lot, I think that it is nice to have loving parents to fall back on. THAT BEING SAID, TLM…enabling your daughter to live a life of partying, and irresponsibility, is what you are having trouble with your wife over. I get that. I think that is where the rub is.

I will keep you guys in my prayers.

 

[Sina]

I was booted out of the house by my parents when I was 20 mostly because I didn’t get along with my dad. He was physically abusive until I was 15 and hit him back. Sure I had attitude and I was ungrateful. I was in my last year of university and I had a job but it certainly wasn’t enough to pay for room and board. My parents had agreed to let me live at home until I was finished school. This obviously didn’t happen and they asked me to move out and get a student loan like my brother had. The problem was that I wasn’t 21 yet, and you can’t get a student loan on your own until you are 21. Otherwise the government goes off of your parent’s income for eligibility and we didn’t qualify since my parents made more than the cut off.

So… anyways, I was kicked out. I moved in with a friend and his parents for 9 months until I graduated and found a house with other students to pay cheap rent. As upset and angry as I was at my father for kicking me out, I got over it and I learned a lot about myself, and how to be grateful (now to the parents of the friend I was living with) and to take care of myself and see how much things like toilet paper costs.

Personally, I think your daughter should be allowed to stay at home until she graduates, then she should find her own place. I am sorry she is ungrateful to you. I know she loves you and she needs to learn to appreciate her parents and to show respect. I believe she will come around.

Based on your post, she doesn’t sound THAT bad. She sounds like a regular 22 year old.

Another point I was thinking about was that I have some friends who still lived at home until they were say… 28ish. They were making good money too in their careers. The difference is that these particular friends came from East Indian families where their whole life revolves around being together and having family functions etc… They have a strong community and they cry when their kids move out. ( not meaning to overgeneralize ). In my parents culture ( Scandinavian ), you move out as soon as you are 19 and are entering college. The government would pay for living expenses and even university, as was the case with my parents back in their old country.

In North America, because tuition costs are through the roof, especially in the US, parents are expected by the government to cover as much of the cost as possible because there is no way a student can pay for it all on their own without crippling themselves in debt.

 

[TLM08]

Sir,

I feel your pain. I have a similar situation. No enabling by either my wife or I but we have a 22 year old daughter who made two mistakes and now has a beautiful 9 month old daughter and both live with us. It is too much to go into but sometimes as fathers and husbands we have to keep a lid on our emotions in order to keep the family unit together. I understand your frustration and have been praying much in the last 18 months or so that God’s Will shall be done and that I will not do anything to affect His will. We both must quietly bear our cross. I will pray for you, your wife and your daughter. God bless.

P.S. We do make her pay some expenses, she does work part time and her alleged fiance is a neerdowell, but that is another story.

Thank You my friend.

 

[TLM08]

Another thing…what if you made her pay rent and then put that money into a savings account for her? You could then give it back to her when she finally leaves the nest?

Thanks Serap… Been there and tried that! She only has money for gas, cigarettes, clothing, her $100.00/month (ridiculous) cell phone bill, shoes and partying. The only thing she is doing right at this point is getting her education. She doesn’t make any trouble for us here… She’s not disruptive. But her mother and I are being “used”… and I resent it deeply.

 

[Serap]

Thanks Serap… Been there and tried that! She only has money for gas, cigarettes, clothing, her $100.00/month (ridiculous) cell phone bill, shoes and partying. The only thing she is doing right at this point is getting her education. She doesn’t make any trouble for us here… She’s not disruptive. But her mother and I are being “used”… and I resent it deeply.

TLM, for what it’s worth…you’re a good daddy!

 

[TLM08]

Thank You everybody for your kind and helpful replies. My post is more of a rant than anything else. My wife is a classic enabler when it comes to these “minor” issues. ON the tough stuff… she is right there with me. By and large the kids all turned out okay. My main complaint is that she never made them help out around the house. Even as children she never made them do chores.

When they were younger, I made a chore list which they could pick from and sign off on when completed. The tasks were first come… first served. It gave them a real incentive to see their initials in the boxes. They really almost enjoyed doing the chores. I would make a little graph at the end of each month and put it in the chore folder to show who was helping out the most. They liked the competition. The winner got a little extra spending money. Oddly enough my sponging adult daughter usually did the most chores back then! Go figure?

My wife got the chore folder out one night and showed it to her friends. From the other room, I could hear them laughing at the list. Many of her friends kids grew up to be sponges by the way. I didn’t fight with her about it, but I never made another chore list after that.

I guess I was raised differently. If I didn’t do my work, I didn’t get to play after school… and that was the end of the discussion.

But anyway… thanks everyone for allowing me to vent!

 

[tijeras]

Sir, I’m sorry for the situation you’re in and hope it improves soon.

Just one thing I’d like to say:
Your daughter was living with, and I would assume, sleeping with the loser boyfriend, yes? So when she caught him cheating on her, her heart probably broke into a million pieces. Whether or not she hates him now, sex is a forever language and breaking that bond hurts like crazy.

Maybe that’s why she’s acting to terribly now. Maybe she’s trying to forget that pain.

My son’s only seven months old so I might not know what I’m talking about. But I was a youth minister for hundreds of teens and found that usually there’s a reason when kids do things that make their parents nuts.

 

[Princess18]

Since that time, she has all kinds of money for partying, friends, new clothing and plenty of free time. She frequently stays out all night and comes and goes as she pleases. She almost never helps out around the house. In a nutshell, it’s like she turned right back into an ungrateful, selfish, nasty teenager. The only time she speaks to me is when she wants something… you guessed it: MONEY! She only will talk to us if she feels like it or needs something. The whole thing is simply unreal! Like I said, when she was on her own, she was great.

I’m curious about what rules (if any) are in place right now? Is the understanding that she can do whatever she wants as long as she graduates? I ask because part of this may be because there are no clearly defined expectations.

She may not think she’s being horrid simply because nothing’s been asked of her. Reading your post, you almost could have been talking about me at that age. When I lived at home right after college, my parents never said anything about me helping out around the house. I had been gone for a few years and Mom managed the house fine without me. I moved back in and did my own laundry but that was it … she cooked, cleaned, everything. I also came and went as I pleased (although I did let her know if I would miss dinner). I spent my money on whatever I wanted because they did not expect me to pay rent, car payments, or insurance. Since I had been gone for a while, interacting with my parents on a daily basis was a switch, so I mostly ignored them.

After a while, my parents became very irritated with me but didn’t say anything. They just silently fumed. Their growing disgust confused me. I wasn’t breaking any rules, and I wasn’t rude or disrespectful … why were they acting this way? Finally one day my mother blew up about how ungrateful and inconsiderate I was, and how I never did anything to help. My response really upset her, but it was true - I didn’t do it because you never asked me to. Once given a list of chores, I happily complied. In lieu of paying rent I was told that I was expected to put a percentage of my paycheck in an savings account. I needed to be home by a certain time, because regardless of how adult I was it just made them nervous to know I was out until 4am.

Immature? Absolutely. But being a college graduate does not guarantee that you’re all grown up in all respects. Why assume she’s doing it on purpose, unless you’re absolutely sure she’s not just clueless? You got along and her attitude was good when she lived away from you, why would she all of a sudden morph into a malicious, selfish mooch now?

Now maybe your situation is different. I know you mentioned that your wife enables her, so maybe you can’t give her a list of requirements. Maybe you could just talk to her and see if she’s sensed your frustration. Maybe she’s as blind as I was.

Good luck either way.

 

[JustAnotherThou]

Thank You everybody for your kind and helpful replies. My post is more of a rant than anything else. My wife is a classic enabler when it comes to these “minor” issues. ON the tough stuff… she is right there with me. By and large the kids all turned out okay. My main complaint is that she never made them help out around the house. Even as children she never made them do chores.

When they were younger, I made a chore list which they could pick from and sign off on when completed. The tasks were first come… first served. It gave them a real incentive to see their initials in the boxes. They really almost enjoyed doing the chores. I would make a little graph at the end of each month and put it in the chore folder to show who was helping out the most. They liked the competition. The winner got a little extra spending money. Oddly enough my sponging adult daughter usually did the most chores back then! Go figure?

My wife got the chore folder out one night and showed it to her friends. From the other room, I could hear them laughing at the list. Many of her friends kids grew up to be sponges by the way. I didn’t fight with her about it, but I never made another chore list after that.

I guess I was raised differently. If I didn’t do my work, I didn’t get to play after school… and that was the end of the discussion.

But anyway… thanks everyone for allowing me to vent!

As I was reading this thread, I was going to ask when this all started. I had kind of guessed that it was younger in life.

You know it is not too late to repair your relationship with your daughter. You might be surprised at how your honestly with her will help both you and her. The hardest thing for me to hear from my dad was when he told me that he was scared where I was going with my life. At the time I was 15 yo and pregnant. I struggled and have my parents to thank for where I am today. Although, a huge part of my determination was not to disappoint my dad.

When was the last time you took your daughter out just you and her??? Have you ever really talked to your daughter??? Have you had an ADULT conversation with her?

Of course I don’t know you and your family. And I can understand the need to VENT. Although, it does sound like you have a lot of pent up resentment with your wife also. Ignoring it and sweeping it under the rug isn’t going to make it go away. Forgiving it will.

 

[JLSamuel818]

1KE advice is sorta good.

But I would couch it in different terms:

“Dear, as your parents it is our job to prepare you for the real world you will be entering in 75 days, 5 hours 20 minutes and 27 seconds, but who’s counting?”

To break you into the real world easily we forthwith present to you the kind of things you will have to do so as not to be evicted from the apartment you are hunting for right now, and the job you are applying for right now. You ARE looking RIGHT???

1. For the next 75 days, 5 hours 20 minutes and 27 seconds you will pay rent, every 4 weeks, at $x amount. We accept cash or check. YOU DO HAVE A CHECKING ACCOUNT, RIGHT?
2. Your laundry is your responsibility.
3. We have designated a shelf in the refrigerator with your name on it. You are responsible for filling it. If you don’t fill it, you don’t eat. Do not eat our food, or we will bill you for that.
4. Your bathroom sanitation efforts are your responsibility. As is cleaning your space. If your mother is forced by the Dept. of Health to take matters into her own hands, you will be billed for the fumigator and maid service.
5. Failure to “clock in” or come home at night will result in a warning. Several warnings will cause you to have to look for a new apartment sooner than 75 days, 5 hours 20 minutes and 27 seconds from now. (This is practice for having to answer to a boss. They are not as nice as your mother.)

Darling Daughter, this effort is not to punish you. It is out of love. When we kick baby bird out of the nest, we want her to be able to fly and find worms on her own. We do not want her to return and we have to keep her in a shoe box and feed her with an eye dropper for the rest of her life. It is time for you to start acting like a real adult, not a teenager. If you persist in acting like a teenager, you will have the same curfews and restrictions as a teenager. And if you think we don’t know what we are talking about, remember we’re the same people who warned you about your loser boyfriend.

See? You present it in terms of preparing her for that “real world” she thinks she is ready for.

Your real talk needs to be with your wife and asking her if she wants to cripple your daughter and make her unable to take care of herself. A good parent eventually does themself out of a job. If your wife’s issues are a need to be needed, she has to see that her attempts to coddle a full grown adult are harmful in the long run. Real love doesn’t handicap a child like that. (Take that from someone whose ex is living with his mommy at age 46 and abuses her and behaves like a 12 year old boy. Never learned to do his own laundry.)

 

[joandarc2008]

My 22 year old daughter moved back to the nest last year after cohabitating with a nice, polite but spiritually “lost” young man. She showed up on our front porch at 3am one night after catching him basically “pants down” with another girl. The guy was truly likable, but came from a highly dysfunctional background with no father figure whatsoever. She wouldn’t listen whenever I tried to warn her about approaching problems. But by and large, her attitude toward her mother and I was wonderful. With less than a year of school left, to keep her from having to go into school debt, and at my wife’s urging, I agreed to allow her to come back to the nest since she claimed to have no time to do anything but work, pay bills, go to school and study.

I do feel for your situation as it stands now and I don’t mean to be rude but what I hear in your tone in this paragraph is a lot of “it’s not my fault- it’s my wife’s codependence and my daughter’s irresposibility.”

Well, c’mon are you are you not the spiritual head of your household. She made a mistake let her fix it. Also if you are going to be condescending in tone make sure you also take a good hard look at yourself. You know the whole stones and glass house thing. Just making observations I don’t know you or your family so I do apologize off the bat for any offense you may take. Good luck to you and your family.

God bless,

 

[atassina]

Thank You everybody for your kind and helpful replies. My post is more of a rant than anything else. My wife is a classic enabler when it comes to these “minor” issues. ON the tough stuff… she is right there with me. By and large the kids all turned out okay. My main complaint is that she never made them help out around the house. Even as children she never made them do chores.

When they were younger, I made a chore list which they could pick from and sign off on when completed. The tasks were first come… first served. It gave them a real incentive to see their initials in the boxes. They really almost enjoyed doing the chores. I would make a little graph at the end of each month and put it in the chore folder to show who was helping out the most. They liked the competition. The winner got a little extra spending money. Oddly enough my sponging adult daughter usually did the most chores back then! Go figure?

My wife got the chore folder out one night and showed it to her friends. From the other room, I could hear them laughing at the list. Many of her friends kids grew up to be sponges by the way. I didn’t fight with her about it, but I never made another chore list after that.

I guess I was raised differently. If I didn’t do my work, I didn’t get to play after school… and that was the end of the discussion.

But anyway… thanks everyone for allowing me to vent!

I sympathize with you feeling hurt when your wife laughed at your efforts. Respect is one of the 3 essential parts of marriage. Try to read the book “The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands” by Dr. Laura

 

[atassina]

Monday of Holy Week
How are things going now?
Anthony

 

[VivienneJ]

Monday of Holy Week
How are things going now?
Anthony

And Tuesday of Holy Week,I was wondering just the same thing.

 

[teency]

I feel your pain. I too have a 23-yr old that just returned to the nest. But she has no job, and her future looks pretty pitiful. She dropped out of high school in her junior year, lived with a LOSER boyfriend that was abusive that I warned her about the day she met him. They had a child which he is now raising because she can’t get her act together. She does absolutely nothing to help out around the house. But it stops today. I have made a list of chores for her to do, and am giving her a move out date. She can go live at the Salvation Army. This girl is the most ungrateful young adult I have ever seen. I can’t even get her to go help my Alzheimers Mom out several times during the week. Please pray for this family