Unhappy Catholic Lawyers

[Yeoman]

I need to look into St. Francis de Sales. Another potential good one to help with these issues may be St. Peter de Geremia.

I appreciate your advice, thanks. A problem for me is the whole firm-purpose-of-amendment issue, due to which a Confession is not valid without a firm purpose of amendment. So, for example, if a person is in an adulterous relationship and attempts to make a Confession but while intending to continue the adulterous relationship, then the Confession is invalid. That’s not exactly my situation, but the principle still applies. Due to my personal situation with my job, the only honest logic I can conclude is that quitting the job is required for a true firm purpose of amendment, and that remaining in the job precludes it.

Thanks again. I don’t believe that my occupation itself is evil in all cases. But because of personal circumstances, I can’t rationalize that it’s morally okay for me to be in this line of work. It’s tough to explain without getting into some personal problems. I’ve also considered if the reason I hate my job and have been severely struggling to do it is due in large part to this moral problem (as opposed to a perceived moral problem being due to hating the job). And perhaps this hate for the job is a way for God to tell me I need to leave and/or motivate me to do so. Unfortunately, I’ve been much more miserable, hopeless and lazy than motivated.

I used to go to Confession frequently before this current dark period in my life. But now I feel that I need to quit first, which is a pretty hopeless-seeming prospect.

Well, not knowing your actual circumstance, let me suggest this. Make an appointment with a Priest for spiritual counseling and explain your dilemma. If he feels you can validly confess, he’ll tell you, and then you can.

 

[Elostirion]

Are you pondering a career in the law?

Yes, I had, among other careers. Truth be told, I had gone to school for Engineering at first, but met with astounding bureaucratic incompetence (they lost my test scores, ignored phone calls etc. AND THEY DID SIMILAR THINGS THREE SEMESTERS).

I had always considered a Legal Career, but am becoming increasingly less confident. This thread along with other information in the internet realm, especially employment outlooks, dissuades me.

I was thinking of pursuing a LL.M. and (hopefully) getting a language or two under my belt.
Not working out so far in the language department, hehe.

Now I am worried over the moral implications as well. But I speak too much of myself.
In any case I hope it goes well with you all, especially Steve.

 

[DAML72]

yes, i had, among other careers. Truth be told, i had gone to school for engineering at first, but met with astounding bureaucratic incompetence (they lost my test scores, ignored phone calls etc. And they did similar things three semesters).

I had always considered a legal career, but am becoming increasingly less confident. This thread along with other information in the internet realm, especially employment outlooks, dissuades me.

I was thinking of pursuing a ll.m. And (hopefully) getting a language or two under my belt.
Not working out so far in the language department, hehe.

Now i am worried over the moral implications as well. But i speak too much of myself.
In any case i hope it goes well with you all, especially steve.

don’t do it!

 

[Elostirion]

Hahaha, that is what I was thinking. It’s a tad late though (well, sort of), I don’t have the money or time to change my major or “upgrade” my minor.
Time will tell, and I will need to give it thought.

DAML72, It sounds pretty awful when you put it that way.

 

[Yeoman]

Hahaha, that is what I was thinking. It’s a tad late though (well, sort of), I don’t have the money or time to change my major or “upgrade” my minor.
Time will tell, and I will need to give it thought.

DAML72, It sounds pretty awful when you put it that way.

Presumably when you speak of your major and minor, you’re speaking of your undergraduate course of study. What is that?

Also, the undergraduate you’ve mentioned is engineering and the post graduate, of course, is law. These two fields are ones that people tend to recommend for people with demonstrable intelligence, which doesn’t mean they’re suited for you. They are also ones that people believe are high paying. I don’t know about the reality of engineering but with law, that’s not necessarily the case. Anyhow, I can’t see any common theme between engineering and law at all, indeed in some ways they’re the antithesis of each other. I note this as I’m curious what your basing your career criteria on. If its money, you probably should re think your aspirations.

 

[opusAquinas]

I posted this reply in the “Why did God allow Job to suffer?” post:

"n.b. Without EFFICIENT GRACE Job would have turned his back and cursed God for his suffering.

Job was blessed with good health, family and material wealth. Job loved and served God with all that he was blessed with. When God let those things be taken away, Job was still loyal. Fidelity. Even Job’s FIDELITY TO GOD (IS THE GREATEST BLESSING) from God - efficient grace. Job is in eternal love, joy and peace worshiping the Trinity.

The beatific vision.

All honor and glory belongs to God."

My point is: One has to look at the big picture.

 

[DAML72]

Presumably when you speak of your major and minor, you’re speaking of your undergraduate course of study. What is that?

Also, the undergraduate you’ve mentioned is engineering and the post graduate, of course, is law. These two fields are ones that people tend to recommend for people with demonstrable intelligence, which doesn’t mean they’re suited for you. They are also ones that people believe are high paying. I don’t know about the reality of engineering but with law, that’s not necessarily the case. Anyhow, I can’t see any common theme between engineering and law at all, indeed in some ways they’re the antithesis of each other. I note this as I’m curious what your basing your career criteria on. If its money, you probably should re think your aspirations.

Agreed. Seriously, the market for lawyers right now is abysmal. There are people applying to work for the federal govt for free. I have seen job listings at minimum wage. There are so many lawyers out there willing to do part-time contract work that those rates have dropped dramatically (as have the opportunities). Unless you are equipped to start and build your own practice and all that entails, and you are completely committed to the practice of law, don’t do it. Why anyone would consider going to law school right now, when it means racking up a 100,000 + in debts to make the same money a secretary can is beyond me. The market is just unsustainable.

Do what I’m recommending my son does - become a structural engineer and go to work fixing all the crumbling bridges in this country. That’s an occupation that is in demand. Heck, become an HVAC technician, a plumber, or a diesel mechanic - you’ll do much better and live a much happier life than if you pursue a law degree.

 

[seakelp]

Unless you get into the T14 and are sure you can get the grades to work at a job in biglaw, I’d avoid law school for a while.

The nice thing about applying now, at least, is that law schools have lowered their admissions standards. You can get into a pretty good school with only decent grades and LSAT, or you can probably wrangle more scholarship money than you would have been able to three or four years ago.

That having been said, law school isn’t just “law school.” It changes you in a ways you won’t expect.

 

[Yeoman]

That having been said, law school isn’t just “law school.” It changes you in a ways you won’t expect.

That’s true. And beyond that, being a lawyer changes your thinking even more.

I note that you are still in law school. Law school teaches a certain type of thinking. Some people are analytical thinkers to start with, others are not, but generally lawyers engage in analytical thinking. That’s not a bad thing, but a large percentage of people do not naturally do that.

Being a lawyer, or at least a litigator, will teach you to be argumentative. In my view, at least, it gets to be difficult for litigators not to engage in debates with people who are close to them, or to analyze all their problems as if they are clients. And it also makes a lot of lawyers have an extremely cynical view of people. Maybe some people are litigators for years and years and still think positively of humanity, but I’ll be its a minority.

A layman, if they were to hang around a firm, would probably be surprised by the extent to which lawyers have a pretty rough, even crude, view of a large number of topics and people.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Anyhow, I can’t see any common theme between engineering and law at all, indeed in some ways they’re the antithesis of each other. I note this as I’m curious what your basing your career criteria on. If its money, you probably should re think your aspirations.

let me disagree with this. Patent lawyers are pretty much all people with engineering undergraduate degrees. Lots of manufacturing defense lawyers do. They’re not incompatible.

 

[Yeoman]

let me disagree with this. Patent lawyers are pretty much all people with engineering undergraduate degrees. Lots of manufacturing defense lawyers do. They’re not incompatible.

That’s very true.

At least at one time, a person didn’t need a law degree to be a patent lawyer. I’m not sure if that’s still true or not.

 

[LionsDen66]

Unless you get into the T14 and are sure you can get the grades to work at a job in biglaw, I’d avoid law school for a while.

The nice thing about applying now, at least, is that law schools have lowered their admissions standards. You can get into a pretty good school with only decent grades and LSAT, or you can probably wrangle more scholarship money than you would have been able to three or four years ago.

That having been said, law school isn’t just “law school.” It changes you in a ways you won’t expect.

Indeed … as my wife always reminds me to “stop cross-examining me” about the placement of dishes in the dishwasher …

 

[Ridgerunner]

Indeed … as my wife always reminds me to “stop cross-examining me” about the placement of dishes in the dishwasher …

At least she allows you to do it. My wife forbids me from ever putting dishes in the dishwasher because, she says “you don’t do it right”. Possibly she’s correct in her assessment.

 

[LionsDen66]

At least she allows you to do it. My wife forbids me from ever putting dishes in the dishwasher because, she says “you don’t do it right”. Possibly she’s correct in her assessment.

Easy … big plates on the outside, little ones on the inside. Bowl and glasses must be pointing down (so water doesn’t get in and get trapped). Other than that, artistic license.

 

[Yeoman]

At least she allows you to do it. My wife forbids me from ever putting dishes in the dishwasher because, she says “you don’t do it right”. Possibly she’s correct in her assessment.

I’m sure she is correct . . . at least I feel that you should agree she’s correct.

 

[seakelp]

Indeed … as my wife always reminds me to “stop cross-examining me” about the placement of dishes in the dishwasher …

 

[Ridgerunner]

I’m sure she is correct . . . at least I feel that you should agree she’s correct.

Probably she’s correct. But one thing’s for sure. She never challenges my skill at mowing the lawn, changing a tire, taking out trash, removing any deceased prey our dog brings home, getting rid of wasp nests under the eaves. Various things.

So, it’s a balanced understanding about the unique skills each of us has.

 

[Elostirion]

Presumably when you speak of your major and minor, you’re speaking of your undergraduate course of study. What is that?..

Not so pleased with my major. Polysci with a minor in Computer Science. I wish I would have taken more summer classes in highschool and fought with the administration more, I suppose there’s always continuing ed… Bad planning.

 

[DAML72]

Yeoman;11960353:

Presumably when you speak of your major and minor, you’re speaking of your undergraduate course of study. What is that?..

Not so pleased with my major. Polysci with a minor in Computer Science. I wish I would have taken more summer classes in highschool and fought with the administration more, I suppose there’s always continuing ed… Bad planning.

Canon law - not a bad idea.

 

[Yeoman]

I wonder how a person even becomes a Canon Lawyer. Not that I’m contemplating it, but it occurs to me that I have no idea how a person becomes one.