Unhappy Catholic Lawyers

[mommyof4]

Yeoman, is there an area of law you do enjoy? I have a cousin who specializes in bankruptcy law (that’s all he does at that firm), and he does seem to enjoy it. No divorces, no custody disputes, criminal law, etc. I know he makes very good money doing it, too. Is there someway you could stay in law, but direct it toward an interest?

 

[Yeoman]

Yeoman, is there an area of law you do enjoy? I have a cousin who specializes in bankruptcy law (that’s all he does at that firm), and he does seem to enjoy it. No divorces, no custody disputes, criminal law, etc. I know he makes very good money doing it, too. Is there someway you could stay in law, but direct it toward an interest?

I doubt it.

For one thing, I’ve been doing what I’ve been doing so long, that I have a pretty good reputation built up around it, which ironically operates against transitioning into anything else. If you are good at something, and have “success” at it, based on what the definition of success within the field is, people aren’t going to believe that you want to change anything. So there’s no chance to switch practices within any firms.

Secondly, over time I’ve acquired a lot of local clients and they would still be my clients. I’m very weary of people transferring their personal burdens on me, which is invariably what private clients do. If I had the chance, I’d probably retire my license entirely to prevent me from being able to represent anyone in those circumstances, so that I didn’t have to risk being begged into it.

About the only thing I’d now be interested in maybe would be working for the state in an agency, if the opportunity arose.

I sometimes wonder how many lawyers were ever even interested in the law. I suspect not many. When people say that they love the law I find it odd. I think the case generally is that people stumble into the law, or they like reading about a wide number of things which leads them to the law. That doesn’t suit them to practice law however.

 

[Ridgerunner]

The era when lawyers became partners and worked less than their hard working associates is over. Partners in most real law firms work very long hours. Very long days, and six day weeks, are common. And its not an uncommon experience for a lawyer to receive complaints from somebody about how poorly they are doing, only to find that the person complaining to them is doing better than they are. And this isn’t just lawyers who have less than ten years experience, but includes some lawyers with more years than that. Now, lawyers with even decades of trial experience are finding themselves out of work with nowhere to go.

I absolutely believe this.

First of all, the law school output is massively higher than it was in the old “firm system” days. Second, the ever-increasing concentration of business concerns has cut down on “retail” lawyering. Instead of every neighborhood bank having a neighborhood lawyer on retainer, for example, massive networks of banks have most of their legal help “in house” and the rest is farmed out to mega-firms. What neighborhood law firm ever represents Walmart or Lowe’s or Bank of America? None.

And, of course, all of those in-house lawyers are simply employees. The independence (uneasy as it may be) of self-supporting lawyers just isn’t there for them. So they get hired or fired in the same way any employee is, and what job can one really expect after working 10 years “in-house” for Walmart? How can that person function for an individual client who has a fence dispute with his neighbor?

I do think there are nooks and crannies where lawyers still do well while not living the “big firm life” of being either a 'rainmaker" who doesn’t have to a lot more than entertain high end clients, or a narrow specialist who has a production quota to meet every year.

Small town lawyers who have established a clientele, some neighborhood lawyers in cities; the ones who work for individuals. But I do think such lawyers can have a good life so long as their expectations are not unduly high, and as long as they don’t borrow too much money for schooling or housing or anything else. Every now and then one reads about a lawyer who got disbarred because he “borrowed” from some estate or trust, or goes to jail because he took cash from criminals, didn’t pay the taxes and got ratted out by the criminal later.

Yes, the stress can be terrible. But the adrenalin highs can be too. Some lawyers really do get “high” on the give and take in a courtroom, though they tend to “crash” afterwards from the expenditure of too much adrenalin, I guess. My own son, who is a lawyer complains about the “post-trial headache”, which he gets every time. But he does enjoy the moment when he is actually in a trial. Not before, not after. Only during.

Some lawyers have an almost perverse pride. One I know has that old print of the collie dog in the nice warm cabin looking out the window at the lone wolf out in the snow looking in. The unanswered question, of course, is which situation is most to be admired? Who ought to envy whom? Whose life is better?

One lawyer I know told me he tries to “see the face of Christ” in every client. That doesn’t mean he goes squishy. He is fond of a paraphrase of a line he found in a novel that was really about policemen, but in which he substitutes lawyers. I actually found it right where he said it was. Anyway (and changing from policeman to lawyer) it goes like this:

“The lawyer stands lightly in the present moment, at the same time both committed and detached, like a true Christian or a philosopher of old, who knows this world to be no home but a wilderness.”

I really do like that.

 

[mommyof4]

I doubt it.

For one thing, I’ve been doing what I’ve been doing so long, that I have a pretty good reputation built up around it, which ironically operates against transitioning into anything else. If you are good at something, and have “success” at it, based on what the definition of success within the field is, people aren’t going to believe that you want to change anything. So there’s no chance to switch practices within any firms.

Secondly, over time I’ve acquired a lot of local clients and they would still be my clients. I’m very weary of people transferring their personal burdens on me, which is invariably what private clients do. If I had the chance, I’d probably retire my license entirely to prevent me from being able to represent anyone in those circumstances, so that I didn’t have to risk being begged into it.

About the only thing I’d now be interested in maybe would be working for the state in an agency, if the opportunity arose.

I sometimes wonder how many lawyers were ever even interested in the law. I suspect not many. When people say that they love the law I find it odd. I think the case generally is that people stumble into the law, or they like reading about a wide number of things which leads them to the law. That doesn’t suit them to practice law however.

Oh, that’s too bad. My husband did enjoy law school- and law for the first few years. The fighting other lawyers, judges, clients, etc. did get to him after a while. It’s funny you should mention liking the law- I have a friend of mine (Catholic lawyer-turned DRE for our parish) that mentioned she loved studying law in school, but HATED practicing. She did end up working as a part time disability lawyer to help pay the bills, but like working for the Church much better. She moved to another part of the state now, and I don’t think she’s doing much of that any longer, though (conflict of interest with her husband’s business - long story). Our current DRE is a retired attorney (federal prosecutor), who said she couldn’t wait to get out, either. Everyone I know who has left the field is much happier, even without the higher paychecks. Our case was helped by the fact that I have a career that does pay well, so even though we are not making nearly the salary he did (250K one year), together we are able to bring in about 100K, and bout 70% of that is my salary. I never dreamed I would be the main bread winner in the family, but there you go- you never know what life will bring you.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Just remembered this. (Maybe I know some pretty philosophical lawyers)

I am self-employed. I do outsource work for banks and title reviews and closings for lenders and realtors. Anyway, I once said to a lawyer that sometimes I envy those people who actually work in banks. They have a much more secure situation, or so I said.

“Naw”, he drawled in that accent of his. “It only takes one person to fire those guys. You and me, it takes a whole lot of people to fire us before we’re really fired.”

Made me think.

And yes, I have a son who is a lawyer. Has his complaints, but as I said, he really enjoys the give and take of the courtroom, though he hates the preparation. I have a daughter who is also a lawyer and a stay-at-home-mom. She does some outsourcing for lawyers. Docket calls, preliminary hearings in criminal cases, drafts wills and trusts, is working on learning bankruptcy because one law firm has some need for it but doesn’t want to develop that in-house.

My son owes a little bit on school loans, my daughter none. But neither of them went to Harvard either. Both went to a “startup” new law school nobody ever heard of at the time. Tuition was low and aid pretty generous. And nobody cares that they didn’t go to Harvard.

I think sometimes that a lot of lawyers are overworked. (young litigators in big law firms, I think, have it the worst) Some are overextended.

But I’ll add one more thing. If a person is in the wrong profession, he is in the wrong profession. But I have listened to a lot of people in business talk about being “burned out”, and were thinking to go into something else. Sometimes that would be the right thing to do. But I found myself asking one of them one time “Why in the world would you quit doing something you have finally learned to do well, in order to go to something about which you know nothing?”

 

[LionsDen66]

Oh, that’s too bad. My husband did enjoy law school- and law for the first few years. The fighting other lawyers, judges, clients, etc. did get to him after a while. It’s funny you should mention liking the law- I have a friend of mine (Catholic lawyer-turned DRE for our parish) that mentioned she loved studying law in school, but HATED practicing. She did end up working as a part time disability lawyer to help pay the bills, but like working for the Church much better. She moved to another part of the state now, and I don’t think she’s doing much of that any longer, though (conflict of interest with her husband’s business - long story). Our current DRE is a retired attorney (federal prosecutor), who said she couldn’t wait to get out, either. Everyone I know who has left the field is much happier, even without the higher paychecks. Our case was helped by the fact that I have a career that does pay well, so even though we are not making nearly the salary he did (250K one year), together we are able to bring in about 100K, and bout 70% of that is my salary. I never dreamed I would be the main bread winner in the family, but there you go- you never know what life will bring you.

Wow, thanks for sharing this. As a man, I feel pressure to be the main bread winner. Did your husband struggle at all with that? And should I feel that burden? Or have times changed so much that I need to let that go. Your sincere (name removed by moderator)ut would be wonderful!

 

[LionsDen66]

Just remembered this. (Maybe I know some pretty philosophical lawyers)

I am self-employed. I do outsource work for banks and title reviews and closings for lenders and realtors. Anyway, I once said to a lawyer that sometimes I envy those people who actually work in banks. They have a much more secure situation, or so I said.

“Naw”, he drawled in that accent of his. “It only takes one person to fire those guys. You and me, it takes a whole lot of people to fire us before we’re really fired.”

Made me think.

And yes, I have a son who is a lawyer. Has his complaints, but as I said, he really enjoys the give and take of the courtroom, though he hates the preparation. I have a daughter who is also a lawyer and a stay-at-home-mom. She does some outsourcing for lawyers. Docket calls, preliminary hearings in criminal cases, drafts wills and trusts, is working on learning bankruptcy because one law firm has some need for it but doesn’t want to develop that in-house.

My son owes a little bit on school loans, my daughter none. But neither of them went to Harvard either. Both went to a “startup” new law school nobody ever heard of at the time. Tuition was low and aid pretty generous. And nobody cares that they didn’t go to Harvard.

I think sometimes that a lot of lawyers are overworked. (young litigators in big law firms, I think, have it the worst) Some are overextended.

But I’ll add one more thing. If a person is in the wrong profession, he is in the wrong profession. But I have listened to a lot of people in business talk about being “burned out”, and were thinking to go into something else. Sometimes that would be the right thing to do. But I found myself asking one of them one time “Why in the world would you quit doing something you have finally learned to do well, in order to go to something about which you know nothing?”

But your questions assume that knowledge leads to happiness and fulfillment. For me, it hasn’t lead to that at all. Just burnout, depression and longing for something different.

 

[Ridgerunner]

But your questions assume that knowledge leads to happiness and fulfillment. For me, it hasn’t lead to that at all. Just burnout, depression and longing for something different.

Not saying it should, pardner. But it is generally true that we most enjoy those things we do well.

Having said all of that, I also found myself wondering why some of the discontented lawyers don’t find themselves a little acreage somewhere and raise cattle part time, or buy a piece of junk woods somewhere and turn it into a sylvan wonderland. Sometimes it isn’t the task itself that irks, but the lack of anything else.

I know a lawyer who has a little acreage and has built a major pond, in which he raises fish. When he doesn’t want to listen to some client whine, he goes out and fishes in his pond. He can tell a person all there is to know about the types of fish, the water plants, nutrients, all of that. He has planted things with an eye to reflections they make in the water; the artistic effect.

I don’t know. Sometimes people need something like that. I know another who raised buffalo. Finding them too hard to work with, though, he sold them and bought cattle. Gave him an excuse to wear cowboy boots to court with manure on them, or so I suspected. Kind of an irritant to the other lawyer, maybe.

 

[LionsDen66]

Not saying it should, pardner. But it is generally true that we most enjoy those things we do well.

Having said all of that, I also found myself wondering why some of the discontented lawyers don’t find themselves a little acreage somewhere and raise cattle part time, or buy a piece of junk woods somewhere and turn it into a sylvan wonderland. Sometimes it isn’t the task itself that irks, but the lack of anything else.

I know a lawyer who has a little acreage and has built a major pond, in which he raises fish. When he doesn’t want to listen to some client whine, he goes out and fishes in his pond. He can tell a person all there is to know about the types of fish, the water plants, nutrients, all of that. He has planted things with an eye to reflections they make in the water; the artistic effect.

I don’t know. Sometimes people need something like that. I know another who raised buffalo. Finding them too hard to work with, though, he sold them and bought cattle. Gave him an excuse to wear cowboy boots to court with manure on them, or so I suspected. Kind of an irritant to the other lawyer, maybe.

Good stuff. We should send some of the lawyers out to pasture, I reckon. But the point of this thread is that as a lawyer I am profoundly unhappy with ‘what I do well.’ And I know a bunch of talented lawyers who are also very unhappy and feel trapped. Just because I am good at cross-examining a witness or victim or police officer, and good at arguing my client’s cause to a judge or jury, it doesn’t follow that it makes me happy. But I do appreciate your sentiments.

 

[LionsDen66]

I doubt it.

For one thing, I’ve been doing what I’ve been doing so long, that I have a pretty good reputation built up around it, which ironically operates against transitioning into anything else. If you are good at something, and have “success” at it, based on what the definition of success within the field is, people aren’t going to believe that you want to change anything. So there’s no chance to switch practices within any firms.

Secondly, over time I’ve acquired a lot of local clients and they would still be my clients. I’m very weary of people transferring their personal burdens on me, which is invariably what private clients do. If I had the chance, I’d probably retire my license entirely to prevent me from being able to represent anyone in those circumstances, so that I didn’t have to risk being begged into it.

About the only thing I’d now be interested in maybe would be working for the state in an agency, if the opportunity arose.

I sometimes wonder how many lawyers were ever even interested in the law. I suspect not many. When people say that they love the law I find it odd. I think the case generally is that people stumble into the law, or they like reading about a wide number of things which leads them to the law. That doesn’t suit them to practice law however.

For me, it was simply my childhood dream. I was good at debate/speeches and always told people I was going to be a lawyer. So I became a lawyer. I wish I had put more actual thought into it … or had the benefit of a mentor to tell me “no, don’t do it!”

 

[Ridgerunner]

Good stuff. We should send some of the lawyers out to pasture, I reckon. But the point of this thread is that as a lawyer I am profoundly unhappy with ‘what I do well.’ And I know a bunch of talented lawyers who are also very unhappy and feel trapped. Just because I am good at cross-examining a witness or victim or police officer, and good at arguing my client’s cause to a judge or jury, it doesn’t follow that it makes me happy. But I do appreciate your sentiments.

I appreciate your being patient with me. It is not my intention to dissuade anyone from a course of action he feels is necessary to his well being or his family. I will also add that it is my impression the practice of law varies from place to place. I was inclined to believe, for example, that perhaps rural practice is easier to take because of the “codes of the hills” they tend to develop. I think one of them can only do so much dirt before a cascade of dirt falls on him from every direction. But then I ran into an old college classmate of mine who now practices law in one of those fairly tight-knit suburban communities in St. Louis. He invited me to his office to talk old times, and I went. His practice is what I tend to think of as “retail trade”; local peoples’ wills, trusts, divorces, injuries, adoptions. Takes what he wants to do and turns down what he doesn’t want to do. And he, at least, seemed happy with it. Had an office with another fellow in a neat old house they converted to an office. The whole setup looked pretty benign to me, but it didn’t look super high dollar either.

But maybe it just gets to be too much after awhile, from the very nature of it. Not long ago, a man around here who had been, I think, the president of the Missouri Bar or maybe the metro bar (not sure), killed himself. Very well thought of from the accounts. But it appears he had dipped into a client account and couldn’t replace it before a judge sent a deputy out after him to bring him to court to account for it. Shot himself while the deputy waited. It’s very hard for me to understand anything about that. But a lawyer friend of a non-lawyer friend told me his lawyer friend bought an enormously expensive membership in the toniest country club in Kansas City. He did that in order to impress insurance company reps. I guess he has to keep that going in order to keep the means of paying for it going. Maybe he likes that kind of life, but I wouldn’t.

I don’t know how many get trapped into the lifestyle that client relationships demand of some. But I can sure see how that would be a hard life, and I can see how some might come to the point where they would just chuck the whole deal in order to live a more simple life.

Maybe it’s not peculiar to lawyers. I know some company execs who feel they have to “live the life” in order to protect and maintain the means of “living the life”. Golf, big boat, McMansion, all of the stuff with which one entertains and maintains an image.

And those guys tend not to last very long in “the life”. People get all waxed about “the 1%”, but a lot of them are like professional athletes. They make a lot of money for a short while,but longevity at the top is pretty limited for most.

 

[mommyof4]

Wow, thanks for sharing this. As a man, I feel pressure to be the main bread winner. Did your husband struggle at all with that? And should I feel that burden? Or have times changed so much that I need to let that go. Your sincere (name removed by moderator)ut would be wonderful!

I just asked him about this, and he said it really isn’t a big issue for him. Yea, it happened a little bit at first, and sometimes it comes back around, but the good of the career change outweighs the bad. He did struggle with his ego after leaving law- it is somewhat powerful, lucrative. He also made the comment that a man can be the “head of the household” in many ways- not just financially. One of the main ways a man can be the head of the household is to be the spiritual leader, making sure that the kids get catechized well, religious obligations are being met, etc. I personally think my husband does this well (he’s also in formation to become a deacon). Long story short, I think that you will struggle being the man of the house if you are miserable- that does not help anyone in your family. The best advice I can give you and Yeoman is that if you are unhappy, this will affect your family. Start making a plan for your next career, and start making any financial adjustments. This may mean some changes- different cars, different house, different vacations. Look at your paradigms and decide what you can change. Believe me, we did a big life style change (got rid of $950/month car payments, , ) I went back to work full time, etc. It really can happen, but you and the people in your lives need to sit down and make a plan with a time table and be realistic about what can happen. I hope this helps. We’ve been there, done that, and it really can happen.

 

[PazzoGrande]

Wow, Yeoman and LionsDen, talk about coincidence! I’m not one but I do want to enter the profession. I’ve had a knack in the political field and people always assumed I’d go for law. My Bachelor’s is in Political Science and Theology from a university in Hawaii.

I would have gone to law school right after college, but if had years of misfortune that followed. I was I’ll with Myalgic Encephalitis, my dad died, my mom’s business had to relocate and the adjustment wasn’t easy. Many more bad things came my way and prevented me from doing what I want.

Now I’m 29 and haven’t done squat. I still am considering law school and have been asking where do I go with my life now. I was thinking it today when I saw this thread. So add yet another person thinking this is Divine Providence and not a coincidence.

Let me ask you this. What is your experience of law school? Was it a good experience? I want to attend a certain prominent school in the Philippines, where the law grads frequently go to Harvard and other prominent schools for their LLM. One of the reasons I want to go there is for the connections. Without getting into it too deeply, I basically lost my family and what I had in the Philippines and have to start all over.

Your experiences as professional lawyers clearly suck. But what of your time studying? As for me, I’d like to be dealing with nonprofits and nationbuilding, the more philanthropic side of things. I’d hope it wouldn’t suck as much as having to scream and argue with hostile jerks. I’m hoping making the lives of people better could be my inspiration and keep me happy. After all, Saint Thomas More, Saint Josemaria Escriva, Blessed Bartolo Longo and Cardinal Dulles were all lawyers too. Was law school miserable?

Glad I get to pick your minds. I’d love for us to talk about this more. Perhaps God is speaking to me through you. Perhaps God may speak to you through me as well.

 

[PazzoGrande]

It is no surprise that our profession is on the top 5 list for suicides. Depression is rampant and general unhappiness is the norm rather than the exception.

Amazed at your claim, I Googled it, and incredibly you’re right. It’s #4, according to this article from just a few months ago.

cnn.com/2014/01/19/us/lawyer-suicides/

I read articles about how lawyers today, even alumni from the top 20 schools, say finding work is sparse. Like another user who posted on this thread, they are having exceeding difficulty in making ends meet. For that, they often are suicidal.

But based on your conversation, the nonstop bickering that goes on is a part of the equation. Having worked in politics where we have to put up with that all the time, I feel like so much of it is Sisyphean – continuously rolling a boulder up a hill only to see it roll back down. I hate how in this country, everyone likes spouting out their presumptions as facts, and if have to bend over backwards to explain to them why they’re wrong. Happens a lot when dealing with Church issues to the anticlerical world we live in. Gets fricken irritating dealing with blowhards and wannabes. When we do it for the Church, there’s beauty to the struggle. When lawyers do it for less lofty reasons, I can see why you hate the job.

 

[PazzoGrande]

I used to date a lawyer. He mostly did criminal defense cases/trials. He was brilliant. He won most of his cases getting murders, rapists, etc. off. He ended up teaching criminal justice at a university because he couldn’t stand practicing law anymore. Then he killed himself. It’s a very emotionally and very difficult profession. My prayers are with all lawyers everyday. Please remember how many people you help everyday. Millions of people depend on lawyers. “When it comes to law words have meaning.” God Bless.

Could you tell us more about what led him to suicide?

 

[Ridgerunner]

I read articles about how lawyers today, even alumni from the top 20 schools, say finding work is sparse. Like another user who posted on this thread, they are having exceeding difficulty in making ends meet. For that, they often are suicidal.

One curious thing I have observed. At least around here, the practice of law is practically becoming an inherited profession. I can think of numerous firms, mostly small ones, in which the son or daughter (or both) of one of the major members walked right into the firm and had a ready-made practice, building, equipment, you name it. I can think of two firms in which it’s now the third generation. I realize that’s anecdotal, but it is really, really common here.

Add to that the fact that “book of business” to my understanding, is a big deal. Two kids apply to a law firm. One can bring in the business from daddy’s factory or aunt Emma’s banking contacts. The other is just a smart kid. Who do you think gets the job?

 

[LionsDen66]

I just asked him about this, and he said it really isn’t a big issue for him. Yea, it happened a little bit at first, and sometimes it comes back around, but the good of the career change outweighs the bad. He did struggle with his ego after leaving law- it is somewhat powerful, lucrative. He also made the comment that a man can be the “head of the household” in many ways- not just financially. One of the main ways a man can be the head of the household is to be the spiritual leader, making sure that the kids get catechized well, religious obligations are being met, etc. I personally think my husband does this well (he’s also in formation to become a deacon). Long story short, I think that you will struggle being the man of the house if you are miserable- that does not help anyone in your family. The best advice I can give you and Yeoman is that if you are unhappy, this will affect your family. Start making a plan for your next career, and start making any financial adjustments. This may mean some changes- different cars, different house, different vacations. Look at your paradigms and decide what you can change. Believe me, we did a big life style change (got rid of $950/month car payments, , ) I went back to work full time, etc. It really can happen, but you and the people in your lives need to sit down and make a plan with a time table and be realistic about what can happen. I hope this helps. We’ve been there, done that, and it really can happen.

Thank you so much for these pearls. My biggest challenge is letting go of the notion that I must be the financial provider in our house. I do consider myself the spiritual leader, but letting go of the financial reigns would be very challenging. Are most women as understanding as you are on this issue, or do many still consider it “the man’s job” to provide financially?

 

[LionsDen66]

Wow, Yeoman and LionsDen, talk about coincidence! I’m not one but I do want to enter the profession. I’ve had a knack in the political field and people always assumed I’d go for law. My Bachelor’s is in Political Science and Theology from a university in Hawaii.

I would have gone to law school right after college, but if had years of misfortune that followed. I was I’ll with Myalgic Encephalitis, my dad died, my mom’s business had to relocate and the adjustment wasn’t easy. Many more bad things came my way and prevented me from doing what I want.

Now I’m 29 and haven’t done squat. I still am considering law school and have been asking where do I go with my life now. I was thinking it today when I saw this thread. So add yet another person thinking this is Divine Providence and not a coincidence.

Let me ask you this. What is your experience of law school? Was it a good experience? I want to attend a certain prominent school in the Philippines, where the law grads frequently go to Harvard and other prominent schools for their LLM. One of the reasons I want to go there is for the connections. Without getting into it too deeply, I basically lost my family and what I had in the Philippines and have to start all over.

Your experiences as professional lawyers clearly suck. But what of your time studying? As for me, I’d like to be dealing with nonprofits and nationbuilding, the more philanthropic side of things. I’d hope it wouldn’t suck as much as having to scream and argue with hostile jerks. I’m hoping making the lives of people better could be my inspiration and keep me happy. After all, Saint Thomas More, Saint Josemaria Escriva, Blessed Bartolo Longo and Cardinal Dulles were all lawyers too. Was law school miserable?

Glad I get to pick your minds. I’d love for us to talk about this more. Perhaps God is speaking to me through you. Perhaps God may speak to you through me as well.

This does seem providential. I am happy to share my experiences and thoughts with you, my friend. I enjoyed the novelty of being in law school and learning the Socratic method of analysis. But it wore off pretty quickly and the egos and arrogance of those in the profession became apparent to me early on. I had always been a good student and law school was no different from that standpoint. Just more learning/memorizing and adjusting to the styles of the teachers. When test time came around, I just did what I always did – read/memorized and tested well. What’s important for you to understand is that law school resembles the practice of law as much as a dog resembles pasta. Don’t conflate enjoyment of the one with enjoyment of the other. Also, the myth of going to law school “just because you can” or because “you can do anything with a law degree” is truly a myth. You can “do anything” with an accounting degree or a philosophy degree too – that doesn’t mean you should spend 3/4 years and a boatload of money getting one. I’m happy to answer any other specific questions you might have. Please don’t adopt my cynicism without doing your own searching. Go online and read blogs/sites from lawyers who have left the practice or are struggling to enjoy the practice. It would be time well-spent for you. I pray that God reveals His will for you and that you let go of the reigns. Peace brother! (I am assuming you’re a brother and not a sister because I’ve never heard a woman say “squat” like you did)

 

[LionsDen66]

One curious thing I have observed. At least around here, the practice of law is practically becoming an inherited profession. I can think of numerous firms, mostly small ones, in which the son or daughter (or both) of one of the major members walked right into the firm and had a ready-made practice, building, equipment, you name it. I can think of two firms in which it’s now the third generation. I realize that’s anecdotal, but it is really, really common here.

Add to that the fact that “book of business” to my understanding, is a big deal. Two kids apply to a law firm. One can bring in the business from daddy’s factory or aunt Emma’s banking contacts. The other is just a smart kid. Who do you think gets the job?

You’re absolutely right … no book of business or “portables” and you’re worthless. And if you have 20 years of experience and no book of business, you’re even more worthless because you’ll have to cure the taint of your experience. Tough position to be in, for sure.

 

[Ridgerunner]

You’re absolutely right … no book of business or “portables” and you’re worthless. And if you have 20 years of experience and no book of business, you’re even more worthless because you’ll have to cure the taint of your experience. Tough position to be in, for sure.

To my understanding that’s part of the structural problem of a lot of firms. The ones at the top won’t allow the junior members any contact with the clients if they can avoid it, and won’t allow them to get experience in all phases of a particular area of the law. So, for example, the “litigators” often don’t know very much about the subject matter, but get that information, briefs, etc, presented to them by people who don’t do anything but prepare that background information, do witness interviews, etc.

Naturally, that causes discontent after awhile, and the juniors are just as anxious to make contact with the corporate clients and take them with them when they leave. That creates more distrust, isolation, and so on.

Now, in “retail” practice (individual clients) it’s different. I was talking about corporate representation where the really big money is. But even so, there’s a lot of value to “place”. I have seen lawyers here move on, die, retire, and the “word of mouth” individual clientele keeps going to the same location even though “good old Sam” that represented aunt Martha years ago isn’t there anymore.