Unhappy marriage

[Xantippe]

I have a lot of reservations about the advice that nobody should get married until they are ready to have children right away. The Catholic wedding vows are that we will lovingly accept children from God, not that we will immediately seek them out.

In the caller’s particular case, her timeline (finish school and save money) might be unreasonable, particularly if she were just starting a long doctoral program (in which case that might imply up to 10 years of delay before having children), but if she were just a year away from finishing up a degree, I think that would certainly qualify as “serious reasons.” Even the savings might be justifiable, for instance if the couple knew that the large medical bills that often accompany pregnancy would be impossible for them to cash flow on one income.

 

[faithsmind]

It doesn’t sound like he is Catholic, so that’s probably not a huge surprise to the OP.

Yes, but the husband publicly and freely vowed to marry a Catholic woman in a Catholic church, agreeing to the Catholic understanding of the sacrament, which can thereby create a Catholic marriage sacrament.

Also, given that her getting pregnant makes her husband angry, she definitely has serious reasons to avoid at this point.

I agree she should avoid sex altogether, but not to keep the husband from getting mad, because that sounds a bit codependent to me. First of all, SHE should be the one who’s mad! She has every right to be! And yes, they should avoid having sex because he is not respecting her in her entirety, and having sex to get closer has obviously not been working for her. I think it’s only making the situation worse. And of COURSE they should be going to marriage counseling. Why the heck aren’t they? Why, because it’s HER who has the problem??? Give me a break!

Sex physically manifests the deeper emotional reality of the marriage. Sex is not the cause of love. We all know that a pleasant sexual experience does not automatically lead to a great relationship. The reality is that it’s usually the other way around, especially for the woman. But if the woman is not happy, the man will not be happy. It’s up to the woman to find how she will be happy and then stand firmly true to herself, and only then will the man be happy.

 

[faithsmind]

I have a lot of reservations about the advice that nobody should get married until they are ready to have children right away. The Catholic wedding vows are that we will lovingly accept children from God, not that we will immediately seek them out.

In the caller’s particular case, her timeline (finish school and save money) might be unreasonable, particularly if she were just starting a long doctoral program (in which case that might imply up to 10 years of delay before having children), but if she were just a year away from finishing up a degree, I think that would certainly qualify as “serious reasons.” Even the savings might be justifiable, for instance if the couple knew that the large medical bills that often accompany pregnancy would be impossible for them to cash flow on one income.

I’m just telling you what this priest said. He didn’t ask the lady to clarify her situation in any way. I think he would have asked her if this was so grave. He did clarify that “grave” usually meant impending disease or death. Nor did he tell her to immediately go off and begin having children, because this is not the ultimate point of a marriage. It’s something that naturally follows in a selfless act of love-making, which is the entire point of a Catholic marriage. He told her that she should have waited to get married until she could commit herself to this idea.

 

[Xantippe]

faithsmind said:

“I’m just telling you what this priest said. He didn’t ask the lady to clarify her situation in any way.”

I think that was not OK of him.

It occurs to me that the school issue could be a very serious issue if there were a substantial risk of her 1) not finishing her program and 2) winding up with a large amount of student loans, without the degree that would enable her to pay them off. That could be a very serious problem for family welfare long term.

I have seen a number of women really struggle with making academic progress when they are pregnant or have small children. That doesn’t surprise me at all–I just barely squeaked through my own MA program even with no such added difficulties.

“He did clarify that “grave” usually meant impending disease or death.”

Wow–that was really rigoristic of him and way in excess of actual Church teaching.

We are veering off topic, though.

 

[bitterhope]

faithsmind said:

“I’m just telling you what this priest said. He didn’t ask the lady to clarify her situation in any way.”

I think that was not OK of him.

It occurs to me that the school issue could be a very serious issue if there were a substantial risk of her 1) not finishing her program and 2) winding up with a large amount of student loans, without the degree that would enable her to pay them off. That could be a very serious problem for family welfare long term.

I have seen a number of women really struggle with making academic progress when they are pregnant or have small children. That doesn’t surprise me at all–I just barely squeaked through my own MA program even with no such added difficulties.

“He did clarify that “grave” usually meant impending disease or death.”

Wow–that was really rigoristic of him and way in excess of actual Church teaching.

We are veering off topic, though.

Did you ever seriously consider that maybe it is not way in excess of actual Church teachings? Perhaps the priests, bishops and popes do know what the Church teaches and that NFP is really only supposed to be used as this priest stated. I’ve seen bishops in the US issue statements saying the same thing, and the documents from the popes, as well as the catechism all say the same thing.

As to the original post, I know it is tough living abroad and having a spouse gone as much as he’s home. I’ve been there most of my marriage. We have lived in other countries, and now that we are back in the US, even though we are still 12+ hours from any family, we feel close to home. My husband is finally home nearly every night, but often it isn’t until after our kids are in bed sleeping. You all need to decide together if you really need or want the lifestyle you have grown accustomed to, or if you all are willing to down size, live a more modest lifestyle, and have him home more often. For my family, we need the job he has because it provides benefits we can’t get in any other job he qualifies for. We are satisfied with our life, but if there ever came a time either of us felt trapped as you seem to feel (and possibly your husband as well), we would leave it behind in a heartbeat. Family harmony must come first.

 

[Xantippe]

We are veering way off topic, but I’ll bite.

bitterhope said:

“Did you ever seriously consider that maybe it is not way in excess of actual Church teachings? Perhaps the priests, bishops and popes do know what the Church teaches and that NFP is really only supposed to be used as this priest stated. I’ve seen bishops in the US issue statements saying the same thing, and the documents from the popes, as well as the catechism all say the same thing.”

Really–that ““grave” usually meant impending disease or death”?

Can you point to some official Church documents that say that NFP is primarily for cases involving impending disease or death?

“Just reasons” and “serious reasons” (which is the terminology used in official Church documents) does not mean only that kind of issue. If “just reasons” and “serious reasons” were really that limited, it would be much more explicitly spelled out. As it is, Humanae Vitae (which is one of our most authoritative documents on NFP) says:

“With regard to physical, economic, psychological and social conditions, responsible parenthood is exercised by those who prudently and generously decide to have more children, and by those who, for serious reasons and with due respect to moral precepts, decide not to have additional children for either a certain or an indefinite period of time.”

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

I would say that “physical, economic, psychological and social conditions” offer a much wider array of possibilities with regard to “serious reasons.”

 

[faithsmind]

I will take the wise priest’s answer over Xantipe’s interpretations any day. If I’d have followed all her “serious” reasons for not having children, I don’t think I would have ended up with any, very sadly.

My ULTIMATE point, is to point out this very wrong belief that sex IS love. Sex is NOT love. It can only illuminate true love in a most beautiful way, much like a beautiful work of art, such as “The Prodigal Son” by Rembrandt, which illuminates the truth of Jesus’s parable. Another beautiful example is an icon paintings which were seen as windows to heaven. Any painting in itself, any physical act, in itself, will not bring about actual truth. In fact, it can be used in very degrading and twisted ways, too–even within marriage. It is only a physical manifestation of the truth of the relationship. Girl needs to get her emotional relationship back on track…

 

[bitterhope]

I will take the wise priest’s answer over Xantipe’s interpretations any day. If I’d have followed all her “serious” reasons for not having children, I don’t think I would have ended up with any, very sadly.

My ULTIMATE point, is to point out this very wrong belief that sex IS love. Sex is NOT love. It can only illuminate true love in a most beautiful way, much like a beautiful work of art, such as “The Prodigal Son” by Rembrandt, which illuminates the truth of Jesus’s parable. Another beautiful example is an icon paintings which were seen as windows to heaven. Any painting in itself, any physical act, in itself, will not bring about actual truth. In fact, it can be used in very degrading and twisted ways, too–even within marriage. It is only a physical manifestation of the truth of the relationship. Girl needs to get her emotional relationship back on track…

Yes I agree. The world would be empty…

 

[PumpkinPies37]

Dear OP,

I’ve been reading this thread for a few days, and I can tell that you are a kind person who has done her best to be gentle and good. I can see that your life has not turned out the way you thought it would and that your husband is really not the person you thought he was, or would be (at this point in your lives).

I can also see, by reading your initial posts that you are a well-educated and thoughtful person.

Girlfriend, I’m going to go all “American” on you and just blurt out what I want to say. Forgive the bluntness. Please. And also, forgive the shoddy grammar and punctuation.

OP, your husband has been a real jerk. He’s not listening to you and he’s wrapped up in his work. You probably have been telling him for years how you feel and nothing’s changing. The fact that he’s a scientist makes it worse, because, of course, what he’s doing is “IMPORTANT” and he’s all entitled and everything.

The fact that he was angry at you for getting pregnant? And told you to “act like a normal human being” when you were distressed? He sounds like the stereotypical hyper-educated British man. Like a Prince Charles sort.

But you’ve let this happen. You have fallen into this pattern of playing along with his control freak games. Yes, he does sound emotionally abusive. But you don’t have to let this go on.

My scrappy, gun-packing, southern girl advice is this:

1. Never complain to him again. Ever. He wants you to do this. He wants to sigh and feel all ‘put upon’ by you. He wants to blame YOU for his jerkishness (yes, I just made that word up). Instead, honey, toughen up. Be the stronger one. If you need something from him, write it down. Give him a list. Do not AT ALL even dip your toe into the water of “nag”. Don’t give him that satisfaction.
2. Thank God in heaven that he works so much. Not only are you financially secure, but you don’t have to spend much time with him. Think of every moment he is away as a little holiday. And use this time to get strong, get happy and get confident.
3. Think of all the ways his emotional abuse has hurt you. Think of what you lost. Maybe confidence. Maybe feeling attractive. Maybe feeling sane. Now, go out and get those things back for yourself. If you feel unconfident, then go find experiences that will build your confidence back. It could be anything - rock climbing, or running, or anything that you feel SCARED to do. Go and do it. If you feel unattractive then girl, go to the gym and work your behind off, go get a new hairstyle. Get gorgeous. If you feel inept and possibly insane, then go and serve those who really are unfortunate. Go work at a soup kitchen a couple mornings a week and see that you really are handling life quite well.

The truth is, you have both put yourselves in a really unhealthy relationship. It’s not going to get better by despairing or pointing fingers.

YOU go out and get healthy and YOU go out and be the best, strongest, most gorgeous, and giving person you can possibly be. Reinvent yourself.

And if he’s half as smart as he thinks he is, he will change his priorities real fast. If not, then you can enjoy your life anyway, despite him being a jerk.

Honey, you’ve got to pull yourself up by the bootstraps.

 

[Xantippe]

Pumpk(name removed by moderator)ies said:

“The fact that he was angry at you for getting pregnant? And told you to “act like a normal human being” when you were distressed? He sounds like the stereotypical hyper-educated British man. Like a Prince Charles sort.”

Aside from the pregnant part, I have a non-British friend whose husband is a scientist and her husband who was very similar when she had severe post-partum psychological issues. 1) He couldn’t believe in it and thought she should just shape up (which was kind of ironic, given his specialty) and 2) he was annoyed by the fact that it was distracting him from his work.

I really do think that the “scientist” part of this is a huge part of the puzzle. Not that there’s any necessary connection between science and being an emotional moron, but that it does seem to attract a lot of men who are blind to anything outside their beakers and who think of a wife as a mechanical purveyor of important wifely services, rather than as a human being who needs love, care and consideration. This kind of guy will put initial effort into securing a purveyor of wifely services, but does so without understanding that there is regular scheduled maintenance involved in keeping a wife running smoothly.

“2) Thank God in heaven that he works so much. Not only are you financially secure, but you don’t have to spend much time with him.”

It doesn’t sound like they are that financially secure.

 

[PumpkinPies37]

Pumpk(name removed by moderator)ies said:

“The fact that he was angry at you for getting pregnant? And told you to “act like a normal human being” when you were distressed? He sounds like the stereotypical hyper-educated British man. Like a Prince Charles sort.”

Aside from the pregnant part, I have a non-British friend whose husband is a scientist and her husband who was very similar when she had severe post-partum psychological issues. 1) He couldn’t believe in it and thought she should just shape up (which was kind of ironic, given his specialty) and 2) he was annoyed by the fact that it was distracting him from his work.

I really do think that the “scientist” part of this is a huge part of the puzzle. Not that there’s any necessary connection between science and being an emotional moron, but that it does seem to attract a lot of men who are blind to anything outside their beakers and who think of a wife as a mechanical purveyor of important wifely services, rather than as a human being who needs love, care and consideration. This kind of guy will put initial effort into securing a purveyor of wifely services, but does so without understanding that there is regular scheduled maintenance involved in keeping a wife running smoothly.

“2) Thank God in heaven that he works so much. Not only are you financially secure, but you don’t have to spend much time with him.”

It doesn’t sound like they are that financially secure.

Whatever. Thanks for going through my post with a fine tooth comb. It’s not perfect. I never claimed it would be. Just trying to help the OP in any way I can.

 

[Irishmom2]

Dear OP,

I’ve been reading this thread for a few days, and I can tell that you are a kind person who has done her best to be gentle and good. I can see that your life has not turned out the way you thought it would and that your husband is really not the person you thought he was, or would be (at this point in your lives).

I can also see, by reading your initial posts that you are a well-educated and thoughtful person.

Girlfriend, I’m going to go all “American” on you and just blurt out what I want to say. Forgive the bluntness. Please. And also, forgive the shoddy grammar and punctuation.

OP, your husband has been a real jerk. He’s not listening to you and he’s wrapped up in his work. You probably have been telling him for years how you feel and nothing’s changing. The fact that he’s a scientist makes it worse, because, of course, what he’s doing is “IMPORTANT” and he’s all entitled and everything.

The fact that he was angry at you for getting pregnant? And told you to “act like a normal human being” when you were distressed? He sounds like the stereotypical hyper-educated British man. Like a Prince Charles sort.

But you’ve let this happen. You have fallen into this pattern of playing along with his control freak games. Yes, he does sound emotionally abusive. But you don’t have to let this go on.

My scrappy, gun-packing, southern girl advice is this:

1. Never complain to him again. Ever. He wants you to do this. He wants to sigh and feel all ‘put upon’ by you. He wants to blame YOU for his jerkishness (yes, I just made that word up). Instead, honey, toughen up. Be the stronger one. If you need something from him, write it down. Give him a list. Do not AT ALL even dip your toe into the water of “nag”. Don’t give him that satisfaction.
2. Thank God in heaven that he works so much. Not only are you financially secure, but you don’t have to spend much time with him. Think of every moment he is away as a little holiday. And use this time to get strong, get happy and get confident.
3. Think of all the ways his emotional abuse has hurt you. Think of what you lost. Maybe confidence. Maybe feeling attractive. Maybe feeling sane. Now, go out and get those things back for yourself. If you feel unconfident, then go find experiences that will build your confidence back. It could be anything - rock climbing, or running, or anything that you feel SCARED to do. Go and do it. If you feel unattractive then girl, go to the gym and work your behind off, go get a new hairstyle. Get gorgeous. If you feel inept and possibly insane, then go and serve those who really are unfortunate. Go work at a soup kitchen a couple mornings a week and see that you really are handling life quite well.

The truth is, you have both put yourselves in a really unhealthy relationship. It’s not going to get better by despairing or pointing fingers.

YOU go out and get healthy and YOU go out and be the best, strongest, most gorgeous, and giving person you can possibly be. Reinvent yourself.

And if he’s half as smart as he thinks he is, he will change his priorities real fast. If not, then you can enjoy your life anyway, despite him being a jerk.

Honey, you’ve got to pull yourself up by the bootstraps.

I think there is a lot of truth and a lot of insight in this post.

We can’t change other people, but we can change how we deal with them, or what we expect from them. Sometimes, we have to take care if ourselves because if we don’t, there may be no one else that will do so, even if there should be.

 

[chefmomster2]

I will take the wise priest’s answer over Xantipe’s interpretations any day. If I’d have followed all her “serious” reasons for not having children, I don’t think I would have ended up with any, very sadly.

My ULTIMATE point, is to point out this very wrong belief that sex IS love. Sex is NOT love. It can only illuminate true love in a most beautiful way, much like a beautiful work of art, such as “The Prodigal Son” by Rembrandt, which illuminates the truth of Jesus’s parable. Another beautiful example is an icon paintings which were seen as windows to heaven. Any painting in itself, any physical act, in itself, will not bring about actual truth. In fact, it can be used in very degrading and twisted ways, too–even within marriage. It is only a physical manifestation of the truth of the relationship. Girl needs to get her emotional relationship back on track…

 

[chefmomster2]

Dear OP,

I’ve been reading this thread for a few days, and I can tell that you are a kind person who has done her best to be gentle and good. I can see that your life has not turned out the way you thought it would and that your husband is really not the person you thought he was, or would be (at this point in your lives).

I can also see, by reading your initial posts that you are a well-educated and thoughtful person.

Girlfriend, I’m going to go all “American” on you and just blurt out what I want to say. Forgive the bluntness. Please. And also, forgive the shoddy grammar and punctuation.

OP, your husband has been a real jerk. He’s not listening to you and he’s wrapped up in his work. You probably have been telling him for years how you feel and nothing’s changing. The fact that he’s a scientist makes it worse, because, of course, what he’s doing is “IMPORTANT” and he’s all entitled and everything.

The fact that he was angry at you for getting pregnant? And told you to “act like a normal human being” when you were distressed? He sounds like the stereotypical hyper-educated British man. Like a Prince Charles sort.

But you’ve let this happen. You have fallen into this pattern of playing along with his control freak games. Yes, he does sound emotionally abusive. But you don’t have to let this go on.

My scrappy, gun-packing, southern girl advice is this:

1. Never complain to him again. Ever. He wants you to do this. He wants to sigh and feel all ‘put upon’ by you. He wants to blame YOU for his jerkishness (yes, I just made that word up). Instead, honey, toughen up. Be the stronger one. If you need something from him, write it down. Give him a list. Do not AT ALL even dip your toe into the water of “nag”. Don’t give him that satisfaction.
2. Thank God in heaven that he works so much. Not only are you financially secure, but you don’t have to spend much time with him. Think of every moment he is away as a little holiday. And use this time to get strong, get happy and get confident.
3. Think of all the ways his emotional abuse has hurt you. Think of what you lost. Maybe confidence. Maybe feeling attractive. Maybe feeling sane. Now, go out and get those things back for yourself. If you feel unconfident, then go find experiences that will build your confidence back. It could be anything - rock climbing, or running, or anything that you feel SCARED to do. Go and do it. If you feel unattractive then girl, go to the gym and work your behind off, go get a new hairstyle. Get gorgeous. If you feel inept and possibly insane, then go and serve those who really are unfortunate. Go work at a soup kitchen a couple mornings a week and see that you really are handling life quite well.

The truth is, you have both put yourselves in a really unhealthy relationship. It’s not going to get better by despairing or pointing fingers.

YOU go out and get healthy and YOU go out and be the best, strongest, most gorgeous, and giving person you can possibly be. Reinvent yourself.

And if he’s half as smart as he thinks he is, he will change his priorities real fast. If not, then you can enjoy your life anyway, despite him being a jerk.

Honey, you’ve got to pull yourself up by the bootstraps.

 

[Lillibut]

First off, it is very late here in ol’ blighty and I’m doing this on my tablet so please excuse typos.

I feel the need to clear up a few things.

1. I did not come on here seeking advice about church teaching, different methods of NFP or indeed about our sex life (despite how it may have come across in my OP). I know, believe and follow church teaching and whilst my husband (as a non-catholic) does not necessarily respect the doctrines he respects and loves me enough to respect my beliefs.
2. Neither did I expect, especially on a Catholic forum, told that my husband (who nobody here knows and who is not here to tell his perspective) is emotionally abusive Whilst I will admit that he generally struggles to be empathetic, I would dispute that he is** intentionally abusive. More likely he is narrowly focused and thoughtless - but crucially this isn’t ALL the time.
3. What I was searching for was advice, from a catholic perspective (ie not advocating ABC, sterilization etc), on how I might save my marriage which is in danger of disintegration due to the length of time we spend apart coupled with the sterile nature of our marital relations.

Neither of us planned this. When it started we were newly married and unencumbered by family responsibilities. We had visions of travelling the world for a few years then settling down with our children and enjoying a “normal” life. Instead, I never got to travel with him because there never seemed to be quite enough money for my travel costs (his were covered by the company) and anyway I was a teacher so my vacations were set dates which either didn’t match his travel time or were during the most expensive time of year to book flights (ie summer, Christmas and Easter vacations). And, we never got to settle down as a couple. We never got to build that normal family life. He did threaten to leave the company about 7 years ago but they bought him with a fat pay rise (mostly swallowed by tax and then the expense of an unexpected pregnancy) and a promotion to a new more senior role with “less travel”. I never bought it that line,

[My youngest has just got into bed with me after a bad dream . I will have to pick this up another time.]

Goodnight, God Bless, I love you. See you in the morning (Our family bedtime mantra!)

 

[Xantippe]

Can you do a personal finance course together (maybe online)?

He probably thinks he’s doing this for the money, but you guys seem to be just barely keeping afloat on your income and his income. There’s got to be some sort of solution to your issues, because a guy who is as respected and high-flying as you describe him shouldn’t be struggling so hard financially.

Is it maybe daycare costs that are eating up your income? Do you do a monthly budget?

 

[Maine52]

First off, it is very late here in ol’ blighty and I’m doing this on my tablet so please excuse typos.

I feel the need to clear up a few things.

1. I did not come on here seeking advice about church teaching, different methods of NFP or indeed about our sex life (despite how it may have come across in my OP). I know, believe and follow church teaching and whilst my husband (as a non-catholic) does not necessarily respect the doctrines he respects and loves me enough to respect my beliefs.

2. Neither did I expect, especially on a Catholic forum, told that my husband (who nobody here knows and who is not here to tell his perspective) is emotionally abusive Whilst I will admit that he generally struggles to be empathetic, I would dispute that he is** intentionally abusive. More likely he is narrowly focused and thoughtless - but crucially this isn’t ALL the time.

1. What I was searching for was advice, from a catholic perspective (ie not advocating ABC, sterilization etc), on how I might save my marriage which is in danger of disintegration due to the length of time we spend apart coupled with the sterile nature of our marital relations.

Neither of us planned this. When it started we were newly married and unencumbered by family responsibilities. We had visions of travelling the world for a few years then settling down with our children and enjoying a “normal” life. Instead, I never got to travel with him because there never seemed to be quite enough money for my travel costs (his were covered by the company) and anyway I was a teacher so my vacations were set dates which either didn’t match his travel time or were during the most expensive time of year to book flights (ie summer, Christmas and Easter vacations). And, we never got to settle down as a couple. We never got to build that normal family life. He did threaten to leave the company about 7 years ago but they bought him with a fat pay rise (mostly swallowed by tax and then the expense of an unexpected pregnancy) and a promotion to a new more senior role with “less travel”. I never bought it that line,

[My youngest has just got into bed with me after a bad dream . I will have to pick this up another time.]

Goodnight, God Bless, I love you. See you in the morning (Our family bedtime mantra!)

We can only go by what you wrote in your post. Some of the things you mentioned have characteristics of emotional abuse. Your husband may very well not INTEND to be emotionally abusive, but his actions - as described in your post - are emotionally abusive nonetheless. Emotional abuse can lead to the type of psychological problems you are experiencing. If there is more to the story that you did not mention, we have no way of knowing that. I do not think anyone meant to offend you or your husband. You are having very serious problems and took the time to write this post in order to find help, and we are trying very hard to help.

 

[Xantippe]

Maine52 said:

“We can only go by what you wrote in your post. Some of the things you mentioned have characteristics of emotional abuse. Your husband may very well not INTEND to be emotionally abusive, but his actions - as described in your post - are emotionally abusive nonetheless. Emotional abuse can lead to the type of psychological problems you are experiencing. If there is more to the story that you did not mention, we have no way of knowing that. I do not think anyone meant to offend you or your husband. You are having very serious problems and took the time to write this post in order to find help, and we are trying very hard to help.”

I suggest perhaps reading Lundy Bancroft’s very influential “Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men.” As I recall, one thing he mentions in that book is that abuse can have the effect of breaking down victims and making them act crazy, which of course plays into the hands of the abuser. The abuser is cool as a cucumber, while the victim acts nuts, which makes it very difficult for her to get sympathy or help.

I’m not saying that the OP’s husband is necessarily abusive, but Maine52 is correct that some kinds of abuse can lead to psychological problems.

 

[PumpkinPies37]

OP,

You can call it whatever you want. But if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I’m calling it a duck.

Honey, wives of emotional abuse can spot each other a mile away.

1. You ran off a list of his accomplishments before you even said what his offenses were. It’s like you’re justifying his behavior. Because he’s a scientist and left-brained and works crazy hours does not give him license to treat you the way he’s been treating you. No person, EVER should treat another person like that.
2. Your initial posts were so detailed, and you said yourself that you are trying to sort out your thoughts and feelings. It’s because your mind and heart and spirit are in such knots, you don’t even know up from down right now. Honey, we’ve been there.
3. You defend him. You post his offenses, then when perfect strangers call him a jerk, or abusive, you defend him. Honey, you opened this can of worms but you don’t want to dig your fingers down there and face the mess for what it is. We’ve all been there too.
4. You’re breaking down, even though from all external views, you look like a very happy, successful family. Yep. Hi-five. We’ve been there to.
5. How is your relationship with your parents? Can you ever please them? Or does every encounter with them leave you with a dull ache in your soul…so you go on and make excuses for them… Ya, we’ve been there too.

OP, you are not crazy. You’ve been living with a person who needs help and is too proud to come out and ask for it.

It’s the “behave like a normal human being” statement that really boils my blood. Why does it make me angry? Because sooner or later, he will say that to one of your children. Maybe in a moment of teenage angst. Maybe over a trivial thing. Who cares. You are the only person who can protect your children from soul-killing statements like this. WAKE UP.

Get yourself healthy. Get yourself strong. Your children need you to be the best, happiest, most joyful you you can be.

I’m not telling you to join the circus, or divorce him, or slander him or throw him under the bus for heaven’s sake. I’m telling you to take care of yourself and take care of your children.

I know this all from experience. You CAN do this and he WILL notice. You are going to have to be the one to pull your marriage from the edge of the toilet. And the only way you can do that is to get yourself better first. Become formidable! Then…then…address him kindly and with grace. You be the strong one, then you will see that he has a lot of problems, and you can help to see him through those problems. You save him. That’s how it works.

 

[Lillibut]

I got interrupted last night and haven’t got much time this morning.

I appreciate everyone’s concern. Honestly. However, I am obviously approaching matters from a different perspective, in which I know my husband. I guess the main problem is that I don’t think he knows me anymore.

I do have ‘my own life’. I have a job, I volunteer at the children’s primary school one morning a week, I am active in the parish music ministry and I, of course, have the children. What I don’t have is the finance, freedom or time to do much more. The children have to remain my first priority and my parental responsibilities mean that I have little time to do more than I already do - including going to the beauty parlour.

" you have both put yourselves in a really unhealthy relationship. It’s not going to get better by despairing or pointing fingers."

Exactly. There is no point in playing the blame game. We are where we are and I have to find a way to make this work

In a nutshell, I turned to CAF for advice because I knew what I would hear from the secular world, ‘He’s a jerk, get your own life, you’re better off without him’ or ‘Have more sex girl, get yourself some bc’. I thought if I came here I’d avoid that sort of thing. Let’s take a few things as read:

1. I love my husband and whilst he may be a jerk at times so can I and I’m pretty sure that he does love me. He’s not going to change his core personality which is dutiful, responsible and dedicated to his work. Neither would I really want him to, it is all part of who he is.
2. I can’t get anymore independent than I already am without either neglecting my parental responsibilities or leaving him. Both of those are not options.

We are disconnected. We are both living independent lives, barely seeing one another, exhausted and lonely. We also struggle with long periods of abstinence which has badly affected our personal communication and intimacy, i.e bonding not sex. So I really don’t think the answer is for me to get more independent tbh.

As for finances. I appreciate the advice. However I think it is just a feature of current British society. He earns a good salary but it is not high flying money. Nowhere near six figure monies anyway. Cost of living here is very high. Housing is ridiculously expensive and compared to larger countries like the US and Australia very cramped - especially for the cost. Fuel, both domestic and transport is very high too. Taxes are high for us as his income whilst not extravagant places him in the higher earnings bracket. Food is also very expensive at the moment. Childcare costs are among the highest in the world. We’re not broke but we don’t have any extra floating about. We get by. Like most middle income families in the UK. TBC