Unhealthy piety?

[Monica4316]

The duties of our state in life is how we know. I’m married and a father of four. Also a business owner responsible for 20 employees. And a Secular Carmelite as well. Whenever there’s a conflict between my duties as husband/father/employeer and my Carmelite obligations … Carmel will temporarily take the backseat. If those conflicts ever became persistent, then a leave of absence would likely be order until life balances can be restored.

As a formation director and councilor, one of the surest ways to recognize unhealthy piety in a prospective member is when they think they’re supposed to act like little monks or nuns. That’s not our calling for the simple reason that our primary vocation would suffer. These priorities are codified in our Constitutions and statutes.

And while this all pertains to Seculars of our Order, the basic principal of the primacy of our duties can apply to other laypersons as well. In that, these forums can be quite instructive … for there are all sorts of examples on unhealthy piety and distorted devotional practices here if one reads from that prism.

Hope this helps,

Dave

That helps, thank you… i am wondering what if someone is living a consecrated life in the world, for example with a perpetual private vow? Their state of life would not have the same duties as a married person… how could this affect things do you think?

I am seeking/discerning a different vocation than marriage and I am unsure how to tell if my desires for how I want to love God are His will. It’s hard to tell about myself. I do have a spiritual director. If I had a family of course loving them would be a way to serve God.

 

[Monica4316]

It would help to clarify yourself with the classical terms of the fruits and gifts of the Holy Spirit. As well as the virtues, theological and cardinal. Piety is a gift. Keep in mind Saint Bonaventure will explain terms one way, and Saint Thomas Aquinas (both of the same historical period) another way. And to make the matter more complex, piety is also a virtue - under the cardinal virtue of justice. The point I am making here is - if you make the right distinctions of ideas and actions - you draw better conclusions, yet still with mystery.

As for the practices of the ascetics - are they seen as unhealthy? I would say no. Because the Church in her first 1000 years is abundant with saints of that path. We cannot turn our back to these practices, because of absurd conclusions that we have a better revelation from science concerning health. Be very careful of spiritual guides, who these days stifle the Spirit in that respect. Today, the eastern churches under Rome have a greater respect for these figures.

I see what you mean… I wouldn’t say the ascetics are unhealthy

 

[Monica4316]

Is spiritual joy about something in prayer a good indication? That’s what I heard…? Where as if something is spiritually unhealthy maybe the effects on the soul would show?

 

[animalis]

Is spiritual joy about something in prayer a good indication? That’s what I heard…? Where as if something is spiritually unhealthy maybe the effects on the soul would show?

I believe one of the rules from St. Ignatius of Loyola is not to change a plan of life simply due to desolation. Fr. Timothy Gallagher explains his rules. The classical Jesuit way is one in which I am very ignorant.

Consider what Saint Cyril said, “In the Gospel according to St. Matthew it is said, Blessed are the poor in spirit, that we should understand the poor in spirit to be one of a modest and somewhat depressed mind. Hence our Savior says, Learn from me, for I am meek and lowly of heart.” I sure some would say Jesus looks sick-hearted. St. John Chrysostom said, “We often find the Lord sorrowing, never laughing.”

These quotes came from bible commentary on a Vatican website. (Golden Chain, S. Thomas Aquinas, Lk 6:20-23) Particularly on the beatitudes from Gospel of Luke. The Beatitudes pertain to all states of a Christian life. clerus.org/bibliaclerusonline/en/index.htm scroll down the side bar to profession of faith

 

[DBT]

That helps, thank you… i am wondering what if someone is living a consecrated life in the world, for example with a perpetual private vow? Their state of life would not have the same duties as a married person… how could this affect things do you think?

I am seeking/discerning a different vocation than marriage and I am unsure how to tell if my desires for how I want to love God are His will. It’s hard to tell about myself. I do have a spiritual director. If I had a family of course loving them would be a way to serve God.

Hi Monica -

Yes of course the scenario you described would have differing practical implications from what I talked about. You have a spiritual director … perhaps it’s best to stick with him for guidance on your particular situation. And since you’re discerning a vow and consecrated life, the “health” of your approach to spirituality is likely directly related to your docility to his guidance. And vice-versa. For example, coming to these forums for confirmation and clarification could in itself be an “unhealthy” practice.

Dave

 

[pianistclare]

Is spiritual joy about something in prayer a good indication? That’s what I heard…? Where as if something is spiritually unhealthy maybe the effects on the soul would show?

These are thing to ask that Director of yours.
Not internet strangers where you’re going to get ALL kinds of opinions.
Make sure your Director is approved by your Diocese and go with what he says.

 

[pianistclare]

The Catholic Church has rules about this too. The height of holiness seems impossible. I hope heaven is truly worth it.

Living in bliss with God Himself seems like not such a good deal?
What???

Re-think this statement.
The alternative is definitely NOT worth it.

 

[PelagiathePenit]

Living in bliss with God Himself seems like not such a good deal?
What???

Re-think this statement.
The alternative is definitely NOT worth it.

That was a foolish statement.

 

[Monica4316]

I agree with speaking about this with my SD… (he’s a priest). He is very supportive of my discernment but I want to ask him about this unhealthy piety question and living as a single person in the world. I don’t know if one day God would lead me to religious life but currently I’m in the world.

I’m currently unable to talk to anyone as I’m away for a bit visiting family. I’ve also been going through some spiritual desolation. I’m so glad someone reminded me to not discern during desolation - thank you. I was getting confused maybe due to that.

 

[Monica4316]

The Catholic Church has rules about this too. The height of holiness seems impossible. I hope heaven is truly worth it.

Holiness is possible with grace… we can’t limit God

Maybe it could be an encouragement to you to read about the Beatific vision…