Union Busting Is Mortal Sin, Catholic Scholars Say

[human_being]

yeah, right… don’t sign and everybody goes on strike, costing the company millions of dollars a day, the Company didn’t have a chance either with the government in the unions pocket for years. NLRB always sides with the unions. It isnt a coincedence that the unions give over 80% more to democrats than to republicans. oh and also dont forget that most of those contracts are tied to minimum wage hikes.

Then when, the big three cannot compete with foreign companies, and have to close down plants, thereby losing all those wonderful union jobs, the same people scream and moan about “greedy corporations” Honestly, I just dont get it… btw, I would have given my eye teeth to get work at the local ford plant but they never seem to be hiring, now why would that be???

And the reason you want to work at Ford is because the UAW is there. They don’t pay what they pay out of the kindness of their hearts…they’d pay minimum wage if they could and then lobby to get rid of minimum wage.

 

[Aquinas62]

actually you are wrong, , as long as I can make 100k a year working on a assembly line to take care of my family I can stomach the union. I would join it because I would have to. Auto companies then close plants down because it is cheaper to build the same car elsewhere.

then what happens to those workers who used to make 50.00 a hour? they become overnight stockers at the local walmart making 12.00 a hour if they are lucky… Maybe that plant could have stayed open if the union accepted 35.00 a hour. This is just an example.

I remember back in 1979 when Lee Iococca told the union, I have thousands of jobs at 18.00 a hour, I have none for twenty. The UAW went ballistic. they caved, but got their revenge in spades in subsequent contracts. That was 30 years ago!!! I cracked the 20.00 a hour mark after being with the same company for 10 years, a public utility. I then got laid off.

I wonder what the average automakers wage is? My overall beef with unions now is that they have overpriced their labor market, so the jobs dry up. it is simple economics.

 

[Aquinas62]

Because the same people who feed you your union hating lies also have had aalot of control for the past thirty years…and they prefer foreign non-union sklaves making money for them as opposed to american auto workers…they prefer those with no backbone nor lefgs to stand on to defend themseelvlves…and they prefer a system in which credit is much important to hide the fact that we are not making money anymore than actually paying people wages to afford things with cash…The UAW wanted to have a say in what they make in the 1950’s. They wanted to make volkswagen-like cars…but the company said no…after nearly biting the bullet. they finally listen. If you are so concerned about foreign company’s stealing your work, why not advocate for the unions for they are about the only ones who advocate for american workers. The rest advocate for the bankers who only want people without a voice…slaves or as close as they can get to it.

I have been in a union before, the only benefit for me was the dues taken out of my check… they didnt do a damn thing for wages or anything, but they did protect the people who were incompetent.

“The UAW wanted to have a say in what they make in the 1950’s. They wanted to make volkswagen-like cars…but the company said no…after nearly biting the bullet. they finally listen”

Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while.
"

 

[human_being]

actually you are wrong, , as long as I can make 100k a year working on a assembly line to take care of my family I can stomach the union. I would join it because I would have to. Auto companies then close plants down because it is cheaper to build the same car elsewhere.

then what happens to those workers who used to make 50.00 a hour? they become overnight stockers at the local walmart making 12.00 a hour if they are lucky… Maybe that plant could have stayed open if the union accepted 35.00 a hour. This is just an example.

I remember back in 1979 when Lee Iococca told the union, I have thousands of jobs at 18.00 a hour, I have none for twenty. The UAW went ballistic. they caved, but got their revenge in spades in subsequent contracts. That was 30 years ago!!! I cracked the 20.00 a hour mark after being with the same company for 10 years, a public utility. I then got laid off.

I wonder what the average automakers wage is? My overall beef with unions now is that they have overpriced their labor market, so the jobs dry up. it is simple economics.

I believe everybody got their wish now. i think they start at $14/hr now. greeedy autoworkers…i think they start at $10/hr making mack trucks now…be careful what ya wish for ya might get it someday. so it seems that the UAW workers pasy went down as the minimum wage went up and as for the wallstreet guys who preach your economic sermons…I think they make about $36,000/week. correction: $36 million dollars per week according to this writer:
blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/05/28/an-open-letter-to-the-wealthiest-financier-in-america-youre-not-worth-900000-an-hour/

 

[human_being]

I have been in a union before, the only benefit for me was the dues taken out of my check… they didnt do a damn thing for wages or anything, but they did protect the people who were incompetent.

“The UAW wanted to have a say in what they make in the 1950’s. They wanted to make volkswagen-like cars…but the company said no…after nearly biting the bullet. they finally listen”

Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while.
"

It is really ridiculous to call the guys who do the trade blind squirrels who actually know the trade and have done it for years.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Another “Catholic” organization that’s really a Democrat Party subsidiary.

A mortal sin, indeed. Never mind that the Church doesn’t teach this. I would say the odds are at least even that this group doesn’t consider active homosexuality sinful, and that they’re “personally opposed to abortion, but…”

 

[Aquinas62]

they may know how to build cars, but they dont have to sell them… see what was selling in the 1950s and then tell me the companies were wrong… Europe, Asian and the U.S were in completely different circumstances. I am sorry, I think unions are as corrupt and greedy as anybody on wall street.

 

[Aquinas62]

I believe everybody got their wish now. i think they start at $14/hr now. greeedy autoworkers…i think they start at $10/hr making mack trucks now…be careful what ya wish for ya might get it someday. so it seems that the UAW workers pasy went down as the minimum wage went up and as for the wallstreet guys who preach your economic sermons…I think they make about $36,000/week. correction: $36 million dollars per week according to this writer:
blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/05/28/an-open-letter-to-the-wealthiest-financier-in-america-youre-not-worth-900000-an-hour/

eneral Motors Corp. (GM) explained the calculation for its total compensation and benefits in the “Other Benefits” section of its Media Handbook, available on its website at www.media.gm.com/manufacturing/handbook (accessed Jan. 6, 2009):

"The total of both cash compensation and benefits provided to GM hourly workers in 2006 amounted to approximately $73.26 per active hour worked. This total is made of two main components: cash compensation ($39.68) and benefit/government required programs ($33.58).

The average annual cash compensation for hourly employees in 2006 was $39.68 per hour. Included in average earnings are straight-time pay, Cost of Living Allowance (COLA), night-shift premiums, overtime premiums, holiday and vacation pay. In 2003, GM workers logged 41,363 (hours in 000’s) in overtime hours for an average of 371 hours per worker; in 2004, 39,409 overtime hours for an average of 374 hours per worker; in 2005, 33,555 overtime hours for an average of 337 hours per worker; and in 2006, 27,265 overtime hours for an average of 315 hours per worker.

Benefit/government required programs in 2006 added an additional $33.58 for each active hour worked. These costs include: group life insurance, disability benefits, and Supplemental Unemployment Benefits (SUB), Job Security (JOBS), pensions, unemployment compensation, Social Security taxes, and hospital, surgical, prescription drug, dental, and vision care benefits."

 

[human_being]

eneral Motors Corp. (GM) explained the calculation for its total compensation and benefits in the “Other Benefits” section of its Media Handbook, available on its website at www.media.gm.com/manufacturing/handbook (accessed Jan. 6, 2009):

"The total of both cash compensation and benefits provided to GM hourly workers in 2006 amounted to approximately $73.26 per active hour worked. This total is made of two main components: cash compensation ($39.68) and benefit/government required programs ($33.58).

The average annual cash compensation for hourly employees in 2006 was $39.68 per hour. Included in average earnings are straight-time pay, Cost of Living Allowance (COLA), night-shift premiums, overtime premiums, holiday and vacation pay. In 2003, GM workers logged 41,363 (hours in 000’s) in overtime hours for an average of 371 hours per worker; in 2004, 39,409 overtime hours for an average of 374 hours per worker; in 2005, 33,555 overtime hours for an average of 337 hours per worker; and in 2006, 27,265 overtime hours for an average of 315 hours per worker.

Benefit/government required programs in 2006 added an additional $33.58 for each active hour worked. These costs include: group life insurance, disability benefits, and Supplemental Unemployment Benefits (SUB), Job Security (JOBS), pensions, unemployment compensation, Social Security taxes, and hospital, surgical, prescription drug, dental, and vision care benefits."

If only we could find all income of all the people who rail against the unions so easily…the business owners, the CEO’s the think tank leaders, the bankers and brokers…etc etc etc…but we could never have that now could we…privacy and property and all. right?

 

[stinkcat_14]

If only we could find all income of all the people who rail against the unions so easily…the business owners, the CEO’s the think tank leaders, the bankers and brokers…etc etc etc…but we could never have that now could we…privacy and property and all. right?

Actually, the incomes of CEOs of public companies are required to be disclosed by the SEC, so their salary is public information. The interesting thing is that while the disclosure law was meant to keep CEO salaries lower by making them public, it appears that the actual result was to increase them on average. After all, which CEO wants to be the lowest paid kid on the block.

 

[Aquinas62]

If only we could find all income of all the people who rail against the unions so easily…the business owners, the CEO’s the think tank leaders, the bankers and brokers…etc etc etc…but we could never have that now could we…privacy and property and all. right?

yes, those wasklely (lisp intended) evil greedy business owners, how dare they get rich by taking risks with their money and creating jobs… cant be having that now can we???

I think I get the gist of your thinking… a pox on all wealth producers… ie business owners, stockholders, etc. Only Unions are good and decent and upright… they really look out for the poor working stiff… (as long as they pay their dues, shut up and vote early and often for democrats) while the union fat cats live it up and have lifestyles not unlike the CEO’s whom they revile. I haven’t even begun to discuss the incestuous relationship between Government and Public employee, and Teachers unions. That is another gravy train that has to be ended too.

BTW I have never been an owner, just a wage slave like most Americans, but I can see the value in business, because without business, and profits, all this talk about fairness and equality wouldnt mean squat… we would all be poor and miserable.

 

[human_being]

You all need to look into the record. Then NLRB has not been Union/worker friendly for over a decade. There is a definite bias against labor.

Released minutes ago(4 years without a contract, UPS airline Teamsters I might add) In cae the link doesn’t work and I can’t find another story. UPS airline mechanics were denied the right to move closer to a strike by Federal mediators today. After four years without a contract. The link will work with a bing search on teamsters most recent news but does not work if I copy the url…
courier-journal.com/article/20100601/BUSINESS/6010347:

*UPS: Mediators deny Teamsters’ request to move toward strike
Staff and wire reports • June 1, 2010

The federal National Mediation Board has rejected a request by UPS aircraft mechanics to move closer to going on strike, the company said Tuesday.

The Teamsters union asked federal officials to begin a 30-day countdown to a potential strike.

The union says it has bargained with UPS for more than four years without reaching a deal. Its airline division asked the National Mediation Board on Friday to declare the talks have reached a stalemate.

Had the board’s mediators agreed, the next step would be to offer binding arbitration to both sides. Then, if either side rejected arbitration, it could start a 30-day countdown until the union could legally strike.
*

 

[human_being]

yes, those wasklely (lisp intended) evil greedy business owners, how dare they get rich by taking risks with their money and creating jobs… cant be having that now can we???

I think I get the gist of your thinking… a pox on all wealth producers… ie business owners, stockholders, etc. Only Unions are good and decent and upright… they really look out for the poor working stiff… (as long as they pay their dues, shut up and vote early and often for democrats) while the union fat cats live it up and have lifestyles not unlike the CEO’s whom they revile. I haven’t even begun to discuss the incestuous relationship between Government and Public employee, and Teachers unions. That is another gravy train that has to be ended too.

BTW I have never been an owner, just a wage slave like most Americans, but I can see the value in business, because without business, and profits, all this talk about fairness and equality wouldnt mean squat… we would all be poor and miserable.

Not a pox…just a little spreading of it to the people who take daily risks also to produce the stuff that gains th profits…we take no risks I geuss…we can all be going to work for a very profitable company one day and then the next it’s gone. Their risks are nothing compared to the risks we run. The so-called risks they take are just risks to keep them from being one of us…they are games. And we are just pieces in them games.

 

[human_being]

and as for your comments towards union fatcats. Jimmy Hoffa makes some money but he is in charge of 1.3 MILLION members…I doubt he makes as much as the ceo’s in charge orf the companies he deals with who don’t have near as many employees…YRC honcho Bill Zollars makes millions and is in charge of 40,000 or so empoyees. And is sinking the darned company on top of it. The union officialls have to rub elbows with the politicians…it’s the only way to get things done for the members. Finally we have a president who may actually listen and help the unions who represent the trades that people don’t even have the courage to join. Whaat we do at the union shops they do at the nons…We took paycuts this past year and the nons followed suit…The difference is that we had a vote.

 

[Aquinas62]

I am sure his father lived off his union salary too…

 

[sharmin]

Again- workers are free to organize, but why does the company have to work with that organization? If the majority want to organize, who protects the right of the minority who in many cases will be forced to join the union or have to seek work elsewhere?
Unions are one of the main reasons US workers have trouble competing with overseas workers, sending more and more jobs to other areas.

Actually most foreign companies we are competing with have socialized healthcare, enabling the companies to be more competitive.

 

[tjm190]

Actually most foreign companies we are competing with have socialized healthcare, enabling the companies to be more competitive.

Ah right, lower wages and benefits have nothing to do with it. The fact that labor is cheaper and of the same quality is irrelevant. It’s got to be the health care.

 

[tjm190]

and as for your comments towards union fatcats. Jimmy Hoffa makes some money but he is in charge of 1.3 MILLION members…I doubt he makes as much as the ceo’s in charge orf the companies he deals with who don’t have near as many employees…YRC honcho Bill Zollars makes millions and is in charge of 40,000 or so empoyees. And is sinking the darned company on top of it. The union officialls have to rub elbows with the politicians…it’s the only way to get things done for the members. Finally we have a president who may actually listen and help the unions who represent the trades that people don’t even have the courage to join. Whaat we do at the union shops they do at the nons…We took paycuts this past year and the nons followed suit…The difference is that we had a vote.

Yes. And had you voted ‘no’, then your company would have tanked. Workers should not get to vote on their pay anymore then we get to vote on a companies prices. Aka you vote “acceptable” by working there/buying the product and “not acceptable” by not doing so/

 

[stinkcat_14]

Ah right, lower wages and benefits have nothing to do with it. The fact that labor is cheaper and of the same quality is irrelevant. It’s got to be the health care.

Actually in the US health insurance is a benefit. So if companies in other countries don’t have to provide health insurance to their employees because the government does it for them then that would by definition make wages and benefits cost less in those countries. I am not saying this is the only factor that makes us less competitive, but it probably is one factor.

 

[sharmin]

Ah right, lower wages and benefits have nothing to do with it. The fact that labor is cheaper and of the same quality is irrelevant. It’s got to be the health care.

It IS lower wages and benefits. That’s what I’m trying to tell you. An hourly UAW worker used to make about $25/hour. (Not sure what it is now…the wages have gone down). They also made about $20/hour in benefits. Socialized countries do not need to pay these extra benefits…they have socialized services to pay for health care, retirement, etc. That’s why these companies can be more competitively priced than here in the US.