Unique experience in episcapalian church

[Adamski]

Sunday, after mass I went to an episcapalian church because my nieghbor was having thier child baptized.

I’ll set the geographic setting the episcapalian church is down the street from me which is 3000’ elevation and. 30 minutes forms town and any other church or town. And yes I drive the 30 minutes every Sunday

So this church is mixed with every type of Protestant and has statues a giant rosary hanging form a statue of saint Bernard and so on. So it looks very catholic probably a dozen crucifixes

The church was abandoned by the local episcapalians

So I wanted to know if the below is ok for a lay catholic

A lay catholic drives over an hour, after he attends mass on Saturday evening and is the pastor of the church.

It is a exact copy of the mass except no consecration and he says if anyone would like to come forward for un concerated bread and wine, he doesn’t partake.

I have actually noticed his actions have been very positive in my small town of 300 and many of the anti Catholics have become more open to the church

 

[1ke]

Um, no, what you describe it NOT OK.

 

[SteveVH]

Sunday, after mass I went to an episcapalian church because my nieghbor was having thier child baptized.

I’ll set the geographic setting the episcapalian church is down the street from me which is 3000’ elevation and. 30 minutes forms town and any other church or town. And yes I drive the 30 minutes every Sunday

So this church is mixed with every type of Protestant and has statues a giant rosary hanging form a statue of saint Bernard and so on. So it looks very catholic probably a dozen crucifixes

The church was abandoned by the local episcapalians

So I wanted to know if the below is ok for a lay catholic

A lay catholic drives over an hour, after he attends mass on Saturday evening and is the pastor of the church.

It is a exact copy of the mass except no consecration and he says if anyone would like to come forward for un concerated bread and wine, he doesn’t partake.

I have actually noticed his actions have been very positive in my small town of 300 and many of the anti Catholics have become more open to the church

You may want to re-word your post. I cannot discern what you are asking. Are you saying that a lay Catholic is the pastor of another church? And are you asking if a mock Mass is okay?

 

[Della]

I’m sorry but your post is confusing. Are you this lay Catholic who is using an abandoned Episcopal church to hold a quasi-Mass on Saturday evenings? If it is you do you have your bishop’s permission? If someone else, does he have permission to be doing such a thing? I can’t imagine any bishop would go along with this.

Doing this is illicit. Whoever it is may have his heart in the right place, but shouldn’t be conducting any kind of communion service. It might be okay if you/he simply led Evening Prayer, but should definitely stop offering a fake communion to unsuspecting Protestants. And you/he should get permission from his bishop even to led Evening Prayer so there is no misunderstanding as to what he hopes to accomplish.

 

[GKC]

Yep. Many questions. Episcopalians often close churches and sometimes sell them to Muslims. But merely abandoning one is not in their nature. They want it all.

I don’t understand the OP either.

GKC

 

[andrewstx]

Yep. Many questions. Episcopalians often close churches and sometimes sell them to Muslims. But merely abandoning one is not in their nature. They want it all.

I don’t understand the OP either.

GKC

They will certainly want a return on their monatery investment!

The small town church where I was confirmed was closed by the bishop, and now is a Mexican Pentecostal church. SOLD

All of the small town missions in this diocese have been closed, they can’t pay the minimum salary $100,000 K per year that is required here.

 

[Adamski]

Ok I asked some questions Sorry I wasnt clear

He has permission for the episcapalian dIocese to use it after they stopped using it 30 years ago

It sounds like he has permission from the bishop, or did when he started 20 years ago because of the remote geographic nature but I didn’t I didn’t want to pry to hard. He is a very nice 80 year old man with medical problems. And he has been doing it do 20 years since the Seattle dioces said it was to geographically remote. My town also has an average of 400-700" of snow a year and the road closes about 10-30 times a year for avalanche control

 

[Adamski]

Also I don’t attend I just did one time after mass for a baptism of a nieghbors infant

 

[SteveVH]

Ok I asked some questions Sorry I wasnt clear

He has permission for the episcapalian dIocese to use it after they stopped using it 30 years ago

It sounds like he has permission from the bishop, or did when he started 20 years ago because of the remote geographic nature but I didn’t I didn’t want to pry to hard. He is a very nice 80 year old man with medical problems. And he has been doing it do 20 years since the Seattle dioces said it was to geographically remote. My town also has an average of 400-700" of snow a year and the road closes about 10-30 times a year for avalanche control

He may be very nice but he is also very misled. No lay Catholic has permission to just invent a liturgy, or a service, no matter how well intentioned. Is he also performing Baptisms? The remoteness of the area has nothing at all to do with it.

 

[Della]

Ok I asked some questions Sorry I wasnt clear

He has permission for the episcapalian dIocese to use it after they stopped using it 30 years ago

It sounds like he has permission from the bishop, or did when he started 20 years ago because of the remote geographic nature but I didn’t I didn’t want to pry to hard. He is a very nice 80 year old man with medical problems. And he has been doing it do 20 years since the Seattle dioces said it was to geographically remote. My town also has an average of 400-700" of snow a year and the road closes about 10-30 times a year for avalanche control

Does he have his Catholic bishop’s permission? As a lay Catholic that is what he would need to conduct any kind of public religious services.

I don’t fault him for his good intentions, but what he is doing is illicit.

 

[ffg]

This is interesting.

It’s definitely not normal, but it sounds like people who typically wouldn’t get preached to are getting a little.

The guy doesn’t seem to be pretending to be a priest in working sacraments or anything. (unless he was the guy doing that baptism). Which in reality, lay are allowed to do in emergency situations.

I don’t know if ‘remoteness’ counts, but bi-location isn’t common, so if he’s the only guy getting to these people, perhaps it can be classified as such.

It’s probably something if I was the guy, would want to get blessed every year by the Church.

 

[Della]

This is interesting.

It’s definitely not normal, but it sounds like people who typically wouldn’t get preached to are getting a little.

The guy doesn’t seem to be pretending to be a priest in working sacraments or anything. (unless he was the guy doing that baptism). Which in reality, lay are allowed to do in emergency situations.

I don’t know if ‘remoteness’ counts, but bi-location isn’t common, so if he’s the only guy getting to these people, perhaps it can be classified as such.

It’s probably something if I was the guy, would want to get blessed every year by the Church.

The problem is that this man is doing something illicit by having a pretend communion as a part of a religious service. As a Catholic he should know better. And I can’t believe his Catholic bishop gave him permission to offer a fake communion to Protestants. No matter his age, or his intentions or who he believes he is helping, he needs to stop doing this and consult his bishop as to how he can minister to Protestants without giving the impression they are attending a Catholic Mass.

 

[ffg]

The problem is that this man is doing something illicit by having a pretend communion as a part of a religious service. As a Catholic he should know better. And I can’t believe his Catholic bishop gave him permission to offer a fake communion to Protestants. No matter his age, or his intentions or who he believes he is helping, he needs to stop doing this and consult his bishop as to how he can minister to Protestants without giving the impression they are attending a Catholic Mass.

When I read the OP, I don’t see a fake communion. I see he is clear it is unconsecrated.

It’s also important to remember that when two or more are gathered in Jesus’ name, he is there.

The food in these services is hearing and discussing the Word.

When that ends, it does not create a good.

 

[Della]

When I read the OP, I don’t see a fake communion. I see he is clear it is unconsecrated.

It’s also important to remember that when two or more are gathered in Jesus’ name, he is there.

The food in these services is hearing and discussing the Word.

When that ends, it does not create a good.

No Catholic should be offering unconsecrated wafers as “communion” of any kind. His bishop most certainly ought to know about this.

Prayers are fine, but he’s taken it beyond prayers to imitating the Catholic Mass–at least that’s what it appears from what the OP described. He could pray with Protestants all he likes and that would be fine, but offering unconsecrated hosts as a form of communion decidedly isn’t all right.

 

[Adamski]

Does he have his Catholic bishop’s permission? As a lay Catholic that is what he would need to conduct any kind of public religious services.

I don’t fault him for his good intentions, but what he is doing is illicit.

I asked what denomination the church was and he said he was under the authority of the catholic church

 

[Adamski]

No Catholic should be offering unconsecrated wafers as “communion” of any kind. His bishop most certainly ought to know about this.

Prayers are fine, but he’s taken it beyond prayers to imitating the Catholic Mass–at least that’s what it appears from what the OP described. He could pray with Protestants all he likes and that would be fine, but offering unconsecrated hosts as a form of communion decidedly isn’t all right.

I actually don’t think he offered the bead I think he stepped away and another person did.

 

[ffg]

No Catholic should be offering unconsecrated wafers as “communion” of any kind. His bishop most certainly ought to know about this.

Prayers are fine, but he’s taken it beyond prayers to imitating the Catholic Mass–at least that’s what it appears from what the OP described. He could pray with Protestants all he likes and that would be fine, but offering unconsecrated hosts as a form of communion decidedly isn’t all right.

You should visit Franciscan University during the school year on a Saturday at 4-4:30 sometime. You’ll see a whole lot of people in small groups sharing bread, wine and prayer.

I see what this guy is doing as no different.

Seeing it from afar, it is nice to see someone putting in a huge effort to bring God to those who otherwise might not have the chance to experience Him.

 

[SteveVH]

You should visit Franciscan University during the school year on a Saturday at 4-4:30 sometime. You’ll see a whole lot of people in small groups sharing bread, wine and prayer.

I see what this guy is doing as no different.

Seeing it from afar, it is nice to see someone putting in a huge effort to bring God to those who otherwise might not have the chance to experience Him.

But they aren’t experiencing Him. They are experiencing bread. And whatever it is that is going on at Franciscan University, I can assure you that they are not engaging in some sort of fake communion. What he is doing is dramatically different.

 

[Della]

You should visit Franciscan University during the school year on a Saturday at 4-4:30 sometime. You’ll see a whole lot of people in small groups sharing bread, wine and prayer.

I see what this guy is doing as no different.

Seeing it from afar, it is nice to see someone putting in a huge effort to bring God to those who otherwise might not have the chance to experience Him.

And the groups of people at Fransiscan U no doubt have permission to do so–if they don’t then they too should desist. This is the crux of the matter. In all liturgical matters the bishop has the final say. If this man is operating outside the knowledge and approval of his bishop he should change what he is doing. It’s not the gathering together that is the issue, it’s the pseudo communion he is offering.

 

[ffg]

But they aren’t experiencing Him. They are experiencing bread. And whatever it is that is going on at Franciscan University, I can assure you that they are not engaging in some sort of fake communion. What he is doing is dramatically different.

Don’t want confusion here -

By Him, I’m talking about in the Word shared at their prayer. The whole “Where two or more are gathered” bit.

Bread and Wine are just those two things without consecration in a Catholic Mass.

With your second point, I lived it, I know it well. Thus my last point, I see it as the same thing as what is happening with this guy.

Essentially, fellowship and prayer.

From what has been written, I don’t see a guy trying to pretend to be a priest.