Unitarian Christians- true or not true?

[PRmerger]

And this says it all. The only thing that really matters is if one feels comfortable and therefore we should all go out and find a faith that fits us better.

Right.

Reminds of the story “The Emperor’s New Clothes”. He was quite comfortable walking around buck nekkid. Truth was not of any import–only the fact that he was happy and comfortable.

Except that what he really was…was a fool. Parading around in his skivvies, thinking he was dressed in his finery.

Truth matters.

Truth trumps happiness and comfort.

 

[cheese_sdc]

And this says it all. The only thing that really matters is if one feels comfortable and therefore we should all go out and find a faith that fits us better.

I don’t recall saying I was comfortable.

Its not about what fits one best. It is about finding Truth and conforming my life to that Truth.

I couldn’t agree more.

 

[SteveVH]

I don’t recall saying I was comfortable.

You certainly implied it. I cannot imagine telling someone that the Catholic Church isn’t for everyone and that I hope they find a home elsewhere that suits them better. If someone is leaving a faith community they obviously don’t feel comfortable there, yes?

I couldn’t agree more.

Then why did you say this?

Originally Posted by cheese_sdc
UU isn’t for everyone. I’m glad you’ve found a faith home that fits you better.

It seems that if the UU possessed the fullness of truth that you would try to convince this person that in spite of his reservations he should stick with it anyway because Truth is more important. Instead you seem just fine with them leaving.

 

[SteveVH]

Right.

Reminds of the story “The Emperor’s New Clothes”. He was quite comfortable walking around buck nekkid. Truth was not of any import–only the fact that he was happy and comfortable.

Except that what he really was…was a fool. Parading around in his skivvies, thinking he was dressed in his finery.

Truth matters.

Truth trumps happiness and comfort.

lol. Exactly!

 

[Publisher]

So it would not be correct to say “They were married in a Quaker ceremony”?

Yes you could buy what could not be said is that this ceremony was some how specially able to confer grace or somehow gained favor with God nor was the time and place sommehow mandated to take place in a special building nor needed the blessing of a clergy member.

If was “sacramental” only in a way that all of life is a sacramental expression.

Marriage is not one of several “sacraments” that are valid only if witnessed and blessed by a religious body.

 

[Publisher]

Seeking to fit Quaker theology into a Catholic belief in sacramental theology doesn’t work. Friends are not against “rituals” but do not believe these rituLs somehow gain Gods grace or favor by conducting them. Eating a meal at McDonalds the same time everyday and eating the same thing at that meal is no more saramental…IS AS SACRAMENTAL…as receiving a pics of wheat wafer and sip of wine that has been blessed by a priest…“confected” by a priest.

 

[Publisher]

This post prompted some curiosity for me, so I googled “Quaker wedding” and found this very lovely Quaker wedding video.

youtube.com/watch?v=owT7CUWxRks

It does appear that there are quite a few rituals involved in this activity. They mention “the custom of marriage”, which seems to be a reference to a ritual. The bride walks down an aisle. Rings are exchanged. Vows are made. Bells are rung. Music is played.

Those seem to be quite…ritualistic.

Again Friends are not against rituals, we simply do not believe that it confers grace. Taking a bath could be considered a ritual. Getting baptized in water is as efficacious toward our salvation is as taking a bath each day at the same time an manner.

 

[PRmerger]

Its not about what fits one best. It is about finding Truth and conforming my life to that Truth.

I couldn’t agree more.

I challenge anyone here to consider this: do I look for a church that conforms to my own views, or do I conform my views to God’s, no matter how unpalatable it may seem?

Remember, if there is a God, then He is going to make some rules/principles/ethics/morality that don’t necessarily conform to our own sensibilities.

And if you are in a church that agrees with everything you happen to believe in personally, then I daresay that you are in the church of the Almighty Self. Not the Church of the Almighty.

 

[PRmerger]

Yes you could buy what could not be said is that this ceremony was some how specially able to confer grace or somehow gained favor with God nor was the time and place sommehow mandated to take place in a special building nor needed the blessing of a clergy member.

If was “sacramental” only in a way that all of life is a sacramental expression.

Marriage is not one of several “sacraments” that are valid only if witnessed and blessed by a religious body.

Ah, I see.

And just a clarification: it is an incorrect explication of sacramental theology to view the sacraments as a means for Christians to “somehow gain favor with God”

 

[schaeffer]

I challenge anyone here to consider this: do I look for a church that conforms to my own views, or do I conform my views to God’s, no matter how unpalatable it may seem?

Remember, if there is a God, then He is going to make some rules/principles/ethics/morality that don’t necessarily conform to our own sensibilities.

And if you are in a church that agrees with everything you happen to believe in personally, then I daresay that you are in the church of the Almighty Self. Not the Church of the Almighty.

This concept of God and the cosmos is so foreign and out of synch with the life experience of so many people for the totality of human history as to make less than no sense.

And that does NOT equate to “the church of the Almighty Self” that may be the logical conclusion for one who shares the particular concept of the cosmos you have, but it does not actually address reality.

The fact that someone feels comfortable and has faith in another religion does not mean they have made themselves an Almighty Self.

That idea expresses a lack of understanding on your part, not what the reality is on their part.

 

[PRmerger]

This concept of God and the cosmos is so foreign and out of synch with the life experience of so many people for the totality of human history as to make less than no sense.

And that does NOT equate to “the church of the Almighty Self” that may be the logical conclusion for one who shares the particular concept of the cosmos you have, but it does not actually address reality.

The fact that someone feels comfortable and has faith in another religion does not mean they have made themselves an Almighty Self.

That idea expresses a lack of understanding on your part, not what the reality is on their part.

So God agrees with everything that you believe, eh?

You happen to believe that there’s nothing wrong with sex between 2 consenting adults…and it just so happens that God doesn’t see anything wrong with this either.

You happen to believe that one need not be baptized in order to be a member of His Church…and it just so happens that God doesn’t require baptism, either.

You happen to believe that a 2 consenting adults just have to say, “I commit myself to you, at least until I don’t feel committed anymore”…and it just so happens that God feels exactly the same way.

Really?

 

[PRmerger]

This concept of God and the cosmos is so foreign and out of synch with the life experience of so many people for the totality of human history as to make less than no sense.

And that does NOT equate to “the church of the Almighty Self” that may be the logical conclusion for one who shares the particular concept of the cosmos you have, but it does not actually address reality.

The fact that someone feels comfortable and has faith in another religion does not mean they have made themselves an Almighty Self.

That idea expresses a lack of understanding on your part, not what the reality is on their part.

"If your god never disagrees with you, you might just be worshiping an idealized version of yourself.” ~Tim Keller

 

[frobert]

I challenge anyone here to consider this: do I look for a church that conforms to my own views, or do I conform my views to God’s, no matter how unpalatable it may seem?

Lets parse the sentence.

“… look for a church that conforms to my own views?” = Bad intentions

“,do I conform my views to God’s?” = Good intentions

Now that question that arises is “How do I put my intentions to work?”

According to Kant*: The morally crucial aspect of people is their ability to make rational choices. Kant calls this their autonomy.

A choice is rational if it is:

• voluntary (not coerced or restrained)
• knowledgeable: the person making the choice must know all the relevant facts necessary
• rational: clear-headed, sane, not overcome by emotion, not drugged and so on

"Source: Kantian Ethics

The key features are the intentions and ability to reason.

 

[PRmerger]

Lets parse the sentence.

“… look for a church that conforms to my own views?” = Bad intentions

“,do I conform my views to God’s?” = Good intentions

Now that question that arises is “How do I put my intentions to work?”

According to Kant*: The morally crucial aspect of people is their ability to make rational choices. Kant calls this their autonomy.

A choice is rational if it is:

• voluntary (not coerced or restrained)
• knowledgeable: the person making the choice must know all the relevant facts necessary
• rational: clear-headed, sane, not overcome by emotion, not drugged and so on

"Source: Kantian Ethics

The key features are the intentions and ability to reason.

Sure. Everything you say is quite Catholic.

Not sure how your comments relate to anything I said.

I just want to plant the seed that you must conform your views to God’s, not shop around for or create a religion that conforms to your own personal ideals.

For that is creating a god in your own image.

God is certainly going to be DIFFERENT from your own tastes and preferences.

 

[schaeffer]

So God agrees with everything that you believe, eh?

You happen to believe that there’s nothing wrong with sex between 2 consenting adults…and it just so happens that God doesn’t see anything wrong with this either.

You happen to believe that one need not be baptized in order to be a member of His Church…and it just so happens that God doesn’t require baptism, either.

You happen to believe that a 2 consenting adults just have to say, “I commit myself to you, at least until I don’t feel committed anymore”…and it just so happens that God feels exactly the same way.

Really?
http://media.tumblr.com/b2a9386c8985ff0a7c4e24e223d8d874/tumblr_inline_n03mb1mr4Y1r79k32.gif

You know nothing about what I believe.

but your attitude is unfortunately common. Make jibes, and assumptions rather than discuss and learn.

Where does that get anyone?

 

[PRmerger]

You know nothing about what I believe.

sigh

They were merely rhetoricals.

It is true, indeed, that I have NO IDEA what you believe. Except that you have created a god that conforms to your own ideals, rather than conforming your theology to God has decreed.

but your attitude is unfortunately common. Make jibes, and assumptions rather than discuss and learn.

And yet here you are making jibes and assumptions.

Why do you reserve for yourself the right to do what you object to in others?

 

[frobert]

Sure. Everything you say is quite Catholic.

Not sure how your comments relate to anything I said.

I just want to plant the seed that you must conform your views to God’s, not shop around for or create a religion that conforms to your own personal ideals.

For that is creating a god in your own image.

God is certainly going to be DIFFERENT from your own tastes and preferences.

It is also Epicurean which is who I was thinking of when I made the post.

You planted the seed and I helped it sprout. My comments were a commentary of the right, (right for me) motivation and how to discern if it is right or not.

Let’s rejoice that our posts are complimentary.

 

[PRmerger]

It is also Epicurean which is who I was thinking of when I made the post.

You planted the seed and I helped it sprout. My comments were a commentary of the right, (right for me) motivation and how to discern if it is right or not.

Let’s rejoice that our posts are complimentary.

To the degree that what you profess is consonant with Catholicism, I rejoice indeed!

To the degree that what you profess has divorced itself from Catholicism, I grieve.

 

[SteveVH]

Seeking to fit Quaker theology into a Catholic belief in sacramental theology doesn’t work. Friends are not against “rituals” but do not believe these rituLs somehow gain Gods grace or favor by conducting them. Eating a meal at McDonalds the same time everyday and eating the same thing at that meal is no more saramental…IS AS SACRAMENTAL…as receiving a pics of wheat wafer and sip of wine that has been blessed by a priest…“confected” by a priest.

You are bordering on denigrating the Catholic faith here, Publisher, comparing the source and summit of the Catholic faith to eating regularly at McDonalds. I am personally very offended by your comments and am actually shocked at your ignorance concerning sacraments. You really don’t have a clue, do you?

 

[schaeffer]

sigh

They were merely rhetoricals.

It is true, indeed, that I have NO IDEA what you believe. Except that you have created a god that conforms to your own ideals, rather than conforming your theology to God has decreed.

And yet here you are making jibes and assumptions.

Why do you reserve for yourself the right to do what you object to in others?

The repeated use of the word “you” didn’t sound rhetorical to me, a case of misinterpretation. The fact that you had quoted my message gave me the idea you were speaking to “me” when you used “you”.

I have not created a god at all, so we are back to assumptions.

I didn’t post any jibes or assumptions at either you personally or any rhetorical idea of an impersonal you, so you lost me on that last bit.