Unitarian Christians- true or not true?

[PRmerger]

Indeed I find it tiring and nonsensical for someone to continuously argue that one must disagree with something about the teachings of their faith if there is nothing in their religion’s teachings the person does not believe. If one believes in a religion’s teachings, or believes they’ve found God there, it would be foolish for them to disagree. That’s not the same as creating God in one’s own image. But rather following the image one believes is God’s.

It’s the logical conclusion, Sy.

Remember, if your god doesn’t disagree with you, then you have created a god that says, “I conform to the creature!”

That’s just ga-ga la-la nonsense.

Incidentally, you can’t have it both ways. You can’t say, “It is wrong to make it a criterion that your god has to disagree with you!” AND also say, “Well, there are some teachings that I’ve conformed to.” Either you acknowledge that you have to have a belief system to which you’ve changed (as you’ve done in the latter statement)…OR try to say that there’s nothing wrong with having a belief system that conforms to all of your own preferences.

Which one is the paradigm you espouse?

 

[Sy_Noe]

It’s the logical conclusion, Sy.

Remember, if your god doesn’t disagree with you, then you have created a god that says, “I conform to the creature!”

That’s just ga-ga la-la nonsense.

Incidentally, you can’t have it both ways. You can’t say, “It is wrong to make it a criterion that your god has to disagree with you!” AND also say, “Well, there are some teachings that I’ve conformed to.” Either you acknowledge that you have to have a belief system to which you’ve changed (as you’ve done in the latter statement)…OR try to say that there’s nothing wrong with having a belief system that conforms to all of your own preferences.

Which one is the paradigm you espouse?

I espouse believers to believe.

 

[frobert]

It’s the logical conclusion, Sy.

Remember, if your god doesn’t disagree with you, then you have created a god that says, “I conform to the creature!”

That’s just ga-ga la-la nonsense.

Incidentally, you can’t have it both ways. You can’t say, “It is wrong to make it a criterion that your god has to disagree with you!” AND also say, “Well, there are some teachings that I’ve conformed to.” Either you acknowledge that you have to have a belief system to which you’ve changed (as you’ve done in the latter statement)…OR try to say that there’s nothing wrong with having a belief system that conforms to all of your own preferences.

Which one is the paradigm you espouse?

You continually question peoples motivations with coy questions which is impolite at best. Most non-Catholics come to this forum because there are interesting discussions, they do not come here to be grilled, preached to and evangelized. Many former Catholics left the CC because that is how they came to feel about the CC. I really think you mean well but things you say are hurtful to other people. When people tell you your remarks are offensive you hide behind a cloak of evangelizing. Perhaps you should ask someone if it is ok to evangelize them before you assume it is.

 

[PRmerger]

I espouse believers to believe.

Finish the thought. “I espouse believers to believe…” what?

Believe that Jesus is the son of God?

Believe that there are evil spirits that are causing us to have epilepsy?

Believe that God loves us?

Believe that not eating ginger when we’re pregnant and craving ginger will cause us to have a baby born with an extra toe?

Believe that God hates homosexuals?

Believe that women ought not be educated but should be sex slaves?

Believe that we ought to feed the poor and clothe the hungry?

What exactly do you espouse people ought to believe?

 

[PRmerger]

You continually question peoples motivations with coy questions which is impolite at best. Most non-Catholics come to this forum because there are interesting discussions, they do not come here to be grilled, preached to and evangelized. Many former Catholics left the CC because that is how they came to feel about the CC. I really think you mean well but things you say are hurtful to other people. When people tell you your remarks are offensive you hide behind a cloak of evangelizing. Perhaps you should ask someone if it is ok to evangelize them before you assume it is.

I have given you the benefit of the doubt, frobert.

But you now have the dubious honor of being the 2nd person on my ignore list.

 

[schaeffer]

It’s the logical conclusion, Sy.

Remember, if your god doesn’t disagree with you, then you have created a god that says, “I conform to the creature!”

That’s just ga-ga la-la nonsense.

Incidentally, you can’t have it both ways. You can’t say, “It is wrong to make it a criterion that your god has to disagree with you!” AND also say, “Well, there are some teachings that I’ve conformed to.” Either you acknowledge that you have to have a belief system to which you’ve changed (as you’ve done in the latter statement)…OR try to say that there’s nothing wrong with having a belief system that conforms to all of your own preferences.

Which one is the paradigm you espouse?

Conforming to truth, is not the same as saying “Hey God, I disagree with you.”

Truth is the first thing, then belief, then conformation of self to the truth.

preference doesn’t even come into the picture, because it is not about preferences, it is about truth and conforming to truth.

One can disagree with opinions, or they can ignore truth, but disagreeing with truth is delusional thinking. One can ignore truth but it won’t change or go away.

 

[PRmerger]

Conforming to truth, is not the same as saying “Hey God, I disagree with you.”

Exactly right.

In fact, if one conforms to truth, then what you’re going to have to say is, “Hey God, I wish you hadn’t said [A], but since you did, I conform to [A]”

And if you haven’t done that, schaeffer, then you’ve created a god in your own image.

Truth is the first thing, then belief, then conformation of self to the truth.

You are absolutely correct.

preference doesn’t even come into the picture, because it is not about preferences, it is about truth and conforming to truth.

True, true.

And that’s why church shopping is such the wrong thing to do.

One can disagree with opinions, or they can ignore truth, but disagreeing with truth is delusional thinking. One can ignore truth but it won’t change or go away.

Very Catholic, this!

 

[schaeffer]

Some people church shop because they haven’t yet come upon the truth and are seeking it.

It’s not always from truth to away from truth, it goes the other way as well.

I have read of many people here who shopped their way to Catholicism.

 

[frobert]

I have given you the benefit of the doubt, frobert.

But you now have the dubious honor of being the 2nd person on my ignore list.

I wonder what she meant. Benefit of the doubt? What could she be doubting?

 

[PRmerger]

Some people church shop because they haven’t yet come upon the truth and are seeking it.

I don’t have a problem with that, as long as they search for the Church that Jesus founded, and then conform their views to Christ’s.

What I oppose is shopping for a church that teaches A, B and C doctrines because I happen to believe A, B and C.

That’s the exact WRONG WAY to church shop.

It’s not always from truth to away from truth, it goes the other way as well

.

Huh? You mean sometimes people go from false teaching to true teaching?

If so, then, well, yeah.

I have read of many people here who shopped their way to Catholicism.

If you mean they shopped for a church that met all of their belief systems, then I find that hard to believe. I mean, really, who looks for a church that says that divorce and re-marriage is adultery, and says that a married couple cannot use artificial contraception, or that 2 men in love can’t get married…

No. I don’t think anyone has church-shopped their way into the Catholic Church.

 

[Indifferently]

Unitarians are not “Protestant”. They are heathen.

 

[schaeffer]

I don’t have a problem with that, as long as they search for the Church that Jesus founded, and then conform their views to Christ’s.

What I oppose is shopping for a church that teaches A, B and C doctrines because I happen to believe A, B and C.

No. I don’t think anyone has church-shopped their way into the Catholic Church.

Well, what YOU are opposed to is neither here nor there, as we’ve established it’s about truth, not what anyone here feels good or bad about.

Not everyone is looking for an easy way, a sinful way, validation of a sinful life, or a faith that tells them what they wish was true. Many people DO search for a faith and truth. People leave faiths that ring hollow to them and search for something more, more real, deeper, challenging, true.

I do know people who have church shopped their way to Catholicism. Maybe you will meet some someday.

 

[Sy_Noe]

No. I don’t think anyone has church-shopped their way into the Catholic Church.

Sure they can if they arrive at a point along their faith journey when they believe it’s the church Jesus founded and holds the truth. Some believers such as yourself believe that. Some don’t.

 

[schaeffer]

I wonder what she meant. Benefit of the doubt? What could she be doubting?

I’m guessing she was doubting whether or not you are worth her time posting to.

you must be so far. time will tell.

The other day (not on this forum) someone told me if I wouldn’t study Daoism he was putting me on his ignore list. OK then!

It was a very odd statement for a Daoist to make.

Some people are not very good ambassadors for their belief system, I think that is how one would classify Daoism, at least he says it is NOT a religion. He’s the only Daoist I ever met that said “my way or I won’t speak to you again”

actually, oddly, that discussion was sort of similar to this one. He said if I would not follow the recovery program HE followed, the way HE followed it, it meant I was being prideful and making myself god.

 

[Sy_Noe]

I’m guessing she was doubting whether or not you are worth her time posting to.

you must be so far. time will tell.

The other day (not on this forum) someone told me if I wouldn’t study Daoism he was putting me on his ignore list. OK then!

It was a very odd statement for a Daoist to make.

Some people are not very good ambassadors for their belief system, I think that is how one would classify Daoism, at least he says it is NOT a religion. He’s the only Daoist I ever met that said “my way or I won’t speak to you again”

actually, oddly, that discussion was sort of similar to this one. He said if I would not follow the recovery program HE followed, the way HE followed it, it meant I was being prideful and making myself god.

Yes rather similar.

 

[frobert]

I’m guessing she was doubting whether or not you are worth her time posting to.

you must be so far. time will tell.

The other day (not on this forum) someone told me if I wouldn’t study Daoism he was putting me on his ignore list. OK then!

It was a very odd statement for a Daoist to make.

Some people are not very good ambassadors for their belief system, I think that is how one would classify Daoism, at least he says it is NOT a religion. He’s the only Daoist I ever met that said “my way or I won’t speak to you again”

actually, oddly, that discussion was sort of similar to this one. He said if I would not follow the recovery program HE followed, the way HE followed it, it meant I was being prideful and making myself god.

Thanks you for your comments. I don’t like to make assumptions about posters who like to criticize but I think they may have problems with honest criticism coming from the other direction. Ruining away is sort of childish.

Odd Daoist. I know 2 others who are perfectly calm regardless of what others who they come in contact with believe.

 

[JonNC]

Unitarians are not “Protestant”. They are heathen.

Heathen, according to a particular dictionary, has two meanings:

1: an unconverted member of a people or nation that does not acknowledge the God of the Bible
2: an uncivilized or irreligious person

To which do you refer?

Jon

 

[schaeffer]

Odd Daoist. I know 2 others who are perfectly calm regardless of what others who they come in contact with believe.

The Doaist I spoke of could definitely have benefitted from St Francis advice to “preach the gospel always, use words only when necessary”. I know Francis was speaking of the Gospel, but it 's very very sound advice.

This man’s unfortunate method was to make fun of people, use rude animated smilies and then say well, you are too much of a dummy to understand what I mean, study Daoism and then get back to me.

I considered it a blessing to be on his ignore list. His method was always trying to draw attention to himself, not to the subject at hand, not to the wisdom that was available etc. Not to answering honest questions.

If people asked a question he would try to make them out as stupid or troublemakers, when what they were doing was seeking help.

Maybe his is the new reformed Doaism?

anyway, the ignore function IS there for a reason! Long live the ignore function!

 

[frobert]

The Doaist I spoke of could definitely have benefitted from St Francis advice to “preach the gospel always, use words only when necessary”. I know Francis was speaking of the Gospel, but it 's very very sound advice.

This man’s unfortunate method was to make fun of people, use rude animated smilies and then say well, you are too much of a dummy to understand what I mean, study Daoism and then get back to me.

I considered it a blessing to be on his ignore list. His method was always trying to draw attention to himself, not to the subject at hand, not to the wisdom that was available etc. Not to answering honest questions.

If people asked a question he would try to make them out as stupid or troublemakers, when what they were doing was seeking help.

Maybe his is the new reformed Doaism?

anyway, the ignore function IS there for a reason! Long live the ignore function!

I think he is an Inverted Doaist as he does not go with the flow.

The problem with ignoring someone is you don’t get to see what they say about you and there is a fair amount of entertainment value in some of the things said.

 

[PRmerger]

I do know people who have church shopped their way to Catholicism. Maybe you will meet some someday.

So you’re saying they looked for a church that taught that birth control is immoral, that homosexuals ought not get married, that divorce and re-marriage is adultery, that sex before marriage is sinful…because that’s what they personally believed?

Is that what you’re saying?

Really?