Unitarian Christians- true or not true?

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I don’t have a problem with that paradigm.

Can you show these to me, please?

And this, too. Where did I respond to their posts in a manner that implied I did not believe them?
Great you don’t have a problem with that.

Look back. I already quoted one poster and he/she quoted another.

They tell you they don’t understand everything their church or faith teaches but they still believe everything. They believe even though they don’t understand. Therefore on those things they don’t understand, they conform to their faith’s teachings. But you keep wanting to know what they conform to. The answer is those things they have told you they don’t understand but still believe. Yet you don’t appear to believe their answer because you keep wanting more. One you even put on ignore. I hope that helps how you’re coming across.
 
:clapping:
Great you don’t have a problem with that.

Look back. I already quoted one poster and he/she quoted another.

They tell you they don’t understand everything their church or faith teaches but they still believe everything. They believe even though they don’t understand. Therefore on those things they don’t understand, they conform to their faith’s teachings. But you keep wanting to know what they conform to. The answer is those things they have told you they don’t understand but still believe. Yet you don’t appear to believe their answer because you keep wanting more. One you even put on ignore. I hope that helps how you’re coming across.
:clapping: Awesome!
 
IWhat I can show you is where at least 2 others have told you they don’t understand everything their faith teaches but they still believe everything. IOW the things they don’t understand they conform to. Exactly what you want them to do. Yet you appear not to believe them.
Can you show these to me, please?

And this, too. Where did I respond to their posts in a manner that implied I did not believe them?
Look back. I already quoted one poster and he/she quoted another.
Ah, I see, then.

You said you can show me.

And now you’re not willing to do this. (Or, more likely, unable to)

Your “already quote” did not say anything, at all, about any beliefs that someone has conformed to.

And you have NO EXAMPLES of any post that I have made in which I imply that I don’t believe them.
I hope that helps how you’re coming across.
How you are coming across, Sy, is a poster who is making false accusations.

As far as my putting frobert on ignore–it is not because he gave examples of beliefs in which he has conformed to (which he has NOT given a single example, at least prior to my putting him on ignore).
 
Ah, I see, then.

You said you can show me.

And now you’re not willing to do this. (Or, more likely, unable to)

Your “already quote” did not say anything, at all, about any beliefs that someone has conformed to.

And you have NO EXAMPLES of any post that I have made in which I imply that I don’t believe them.

How you are coming across, Sy, is a poster who is making false accusations.

As far as my putting frobert on ignore–it is not because he gave examples of beliefs in which he has conformed to (which he has NOT given a single example, at least prior to my putting him on ignore).
Sy is coming across as a poster who is ignoring your foolish and ridiculous prodding and goading. The fact you don’t believe someone is your problem not theirs.

If you go back a few pages you will see that I answered your question before you allegedly ignored me. Similar to the above statement, if I do not believe that you are ignoring me is not your problem.
 
Ah, I see, then.

You said you can show me.

And now you’re not willing to do this. (Or, more likely, unable to)

Your “already quote” did not say anything, at all, about any beliefs that someone has conformed to.

And you have NO EXAMPLES of any post that I have made in which I imply that I don’t believe them.

How you are coming across, Sy, is a poster who is making false accusations.

As far as my putting frobert on ignore–it is not because he gave examples of beliefs in which he has conformed to (which he has NOT given a single example, at least prior to my putting him on ignore).
I am sure Sy can handle himself but I just want to set the chronological record straight.

I answered your question in post #149
I disagree but I will answer your question. Similar to schaeffer, to the best of my knowledge there is nothing that I have come to know about the UCC teaching that I don’t believe. There are things I don’t understand, that’s where faith comes in, but there is nothing I don’t believe.
Sy responded to my post in post #150, agreeing with me along with providing his views.
Indeed I find it tiring and nonsensical for someone to continuously argue that one must disagree with something about the teachings of their faith if there is nothing in their religion’s teachings the person does not believe. If one believes in a religion’s teachings, or believes they’ve found God there, it would be foolish for them to disagree. That’s not the same as creating God in one’s own image. But rather following the image one believes is God’s.
You allegedly ignored me in post #156
I have given you the benefit of the doubt, frobert.

But you now have the dubious honor of being the 2nd person on my ignore list.
That you do not accept what Sy said in post #150 is not his problem.
 
I am not sure how to approach this discussion at this point because the idea of having a god that “disagrees with me” is a foreign idea to me. It’s backwards to my understanding and experience of things.

That idea feels like it starts with me rather than with objective truth. Like “Hey god, this is what I think, what do you think about that? Do you disagree with me, huh, huh!?”

And then if god disagrees, saying “ok then, since you’ve proved yourself, I’ll believe in you.”

As if the proof of god being the god of truth is that a person doesn’t like what god says.

That makes no sense to me.

Do we have that within us that resonates and recognizes truth, or do we merely stumble around and find god by default because it’s the thing we DON’T resonate with, and if we don’t believe or like it, then it must be true?

I understand that that is true for some people, and that is their experience, but it is so foreign to my own that I can’t respond to it’s request that I prove my faith by those parameters. I can’t, because I have not had that experience. I cannot prove another persons experience or premise because it does not match my own.

My search for truth never started with me and what I believed or liked.

Truth is truth, it’s not truth because I agree with it or disagree with it. It’s not more truthful because of how much it disagrees with me.

I cannot make myself into a god because I don’t like truth.

Again, maybe I simply am missing some rhetorical, hypothetical or ironic aspect of what others are saying, maybe my brain does not operate that way and I am too literal to take part in this particular discussion. But I keep seeing that quote about a person’s god not disagreeing with them and it truly makes no sense to me.
 
I am sure Sy can handle himself but I just want to set the chronological record straight.

I answered your question in post #149

Sy responded to my post in post #150, agreeing with me along with providing his views.

You allegedly ignored me in post #156

That you do not accept what Sy said in post #150 is not his problem.
Thanks frobert but can always use support. 👍
 
Sy is coming across as a poster who is ignoring your foolish and ridiculous prodding and goading. The fact you don’t believe someone is your problem not theirs.

If you go back a few pages you will see that I answered your question before you allegedly ignored me. Similar to the above statement, if I do not believe that you are ignoring me is not your problem.
:slapfight::stretcher::crutches: :blackeye:
 
I am not sure how to approach this discussion at this point because the idea of having a god that “disagrees with me” is a foreign idea to me. It’s backwards to my understanding and experience of things.
Well, then the corollary to that is that you have a god who agrees with you.

That doesn’t seem quite like the God of the Universe, does it?

How could it be possible that the Omnisicent God who created the heavens and the earth, who knows All Things that Can Be Known…would agree with every view that we personally have?

:hmmm:
 
That idea feels like it starts with me rather than with objective truth. Like “Hey god, this is what I think, what do you think about that? Do you disagree with me, huh, huh!?”

And then if god disagrees, saying “ok then, since you’ve proved yourself, I’ll believe in you.”

As if the proof of god being the god of truth is that a person doesn’t like what god says.

That makes no sense to me.
Then consider this: how could the God of the Universe happen to agree with all views that you happen to agree with?

For example: you don’t like the fact that homosexuals can’t have sex in the manner they desire. So you say, “God doesn’t care if homosexuals have sex with each other!”

You don’t like the fact that a pregnant woman can’t choose to end the life in her body. That’s personally distasteful to yo. So you say, “God doesn’t see abortions as immoral!”

Does that sound logical to you? That every single moral issue that you personally want to be the law of the world coincides with the Law of God?
Do we have that within us that resonates and recognizes truth, or do we merely stumble around and find god by default because it’s the thing we DON’T resonate with, and if we don’t believe or like it, then it must be true?
No one is saying that we find god by default.

Only that it ought to give us pause if we’re in a church that preaches everything that we think is kosher.

And when that preacher says things that we don’t agree with, we leave and shop for a pastor who preaches everything we want to hear.
I cannot prove another persons experience or premise because it does not match my own.
This is very Catholic. 👍
My search for truth never started with me and what I believed or liked.
As is this! 👍
Truth is truth, it’s not truth because I agree with it or disagree with it. It’s not more truthful because of how much it disagrees with me
Indeed.

But remember, if your god never disagrees with you, then it’s really likely that you’re worshiping the god of the Almighty Self.
I cannot make myself into a god because I don’t like truth.
But you can create a false god who happens to agree with all your own preferences.
Again, maybe I simply am missing some rhetorical, hypothetical or ironic aspect of what others are saying, maybe my brain does not operate that way and I am too literal to take part in this particular discussion. But I keep seeing that quote about a person’s god not disagreeing with them and it truly makes no sense to me.
Try and look at it from this point: do you think that there could be a situation where a human creature says, “I believe that it’s not wrong to [fill in the blank]” but God actually believes that it is wrong?

Can you answer the above question? Yes? Or no?
 
Ah, I see, then.

You said you can show me.

And now you’re not willing to do this. (Or, more likely, unable to)

Your “already quote” did not say anything, at all, about any beliefs that someone has conformed to.

And you have NO EXAMPLES of any post that I have made in which I imply that I don’t believe them.

How you are coming across, Sy, is a poster who is making false accusations.

As far as my putting frobert on ignore–it is not because he gave examples of beliefs in which he has conformed to (which he has NOT given a single example, at least prior to my putting him on ignore).
Sy, I am still waiting for examples of posts where I claim I don’t believe what a poster has proposed, as far as conforming his views to what Christ has commanded.

Otherwise, it appears you have made a false allegation.
 
Well, then the corollary to that is that you have a god who agrees with you.

That doesn’t seem quite like the God of the Universe, does it?

How could it be possible that the Omnisicent God who created the heavens and the earth, who knows All Things that Can Be Known…would agree with every view that we personally have?

:hmmm:
@ shaffer

The post is full of fallacies.

List of common fallacies

Look at the loaded question fallacy and begging the question fallacy. There are others but those two stand out.
 
I believe I understand what PRmerger is getting at.

If someone holds a belief without basing it on the truth of God, than they are creating a false God.

For instance, as already been mentioned, Jesus condemns divorce. You may say there is an exception but most misunderstand what Jesus says is an exception. Yet how many faiths condemn divorce? If you seek out a religion that accepts divorce because you believe in it than you are creating your own god. We see many things that are being accepted that weren’t 100 years ago. Did God change or did people seek out they believed and applied to God?

Is someone seeking out truth or what makes them feel comfortable because they already have made up their mind and they are not going to let scripture or God get in their way. Do they ever stop and say I believe in abortion, homosexual marriage, contraception, open communion, divorce what does God actually teach on this? Or do they say God believes the same way?

Do I question why God? yep. Do I say your will not mine? Yep.
 
They missed
Poisoning the Well
Thanks for the information.

Poisoning the well can take the form of an (explicit or implied) argument, and is considered by some philosophers an informal fallacy.

A poisoned-well “argument” has the following form:
  1. Unfavorable information (be it true or false, relevant or irrelevant) about person A (the target) is presented by another. (e.g., “Before you listen to my opponent, may I remind you that he has been in jail.”)
  2. Implicit conclusion: “Therefore, any claims made by person A cannot be relied upon”.
    A subcategory of this form is the application of an unfavorable attribute to any future opponents, in an attempt to discourage debate. (For example, “That’s my stance on funding the public education system, and anyone who disagrees with me hates children.”) Any person who steps forward to dispute the claim will then risk applying the tag to him or herself in the process.
I am not sure my post meets the 2nd criteria of implicit conclusion. What I presented was information. My intent was not to discredit “any claims,” but rather to point out the abundance of fallacies in an ongoing discussion that I was involved in. However, I do see it at least boarder line.

Thank you, it gives me something to think about and to be more careful about in future posts.

edit: going to look at the Max story now
 
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