Unitarian Universalist and Catholics

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**Are we getting closer together 🙂

Dogma takes a holiday at churches’ gathering “There is more than one path through this season,” a Unitarian Universalist minister says at a celebration that included Santa and P.T. Barnum.
By WAVENEY ANN MOORE, Times Staff Writer
Published December 21, 2004
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home.att.net/~tom.wineman/Unitarian_Universalist.txt
**
 
tom.wineman said:
Are we getting closer together 🙂

We’ll know once we reach the mountaintop (or the bottom of the valley, whichever metaphor you want to use). 🙂
 
tom.wineman said:
Are we getting closer together 🙂

Dogma takes a holiday at churches’ gathering “There is more than one path through this season,” a Unitarian Universalist minister says at a celebration that included Santa and P.T. Barnum.
By WAVENEY ANN MOORE, Times Staff Writer
Published December 21, 2004
Read

home.att.net/~tom.wineman/Unitarian_Universalist.txt

Yup, it’s the Church of What’s Happenin’ Now. I keep wondering how they maintain their tax exampt status.

Lisa N
 
They count many atheists/agnostics among their members. How do they get tax exempt status?
 
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Carl:
They count many atheists/agnostics among their members. How do they get tax exempt status?
Probably because no one has called them on it. I do understand an official in a state did question whether they were truly a church but because the status is conferred by the federal govt and federal statute the suit didn’t go anywhere.

UU’s could get exempt status via other means, but it’s hard to see them as a CHURCH.

Lisa N
 
concerning the tax exempt status. What definition does the govt. use in determining what a church is?
 
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mkw:
concerning the tax exempt status. What definition does the govt. use in determining what a church is?
You can look this up at www.irs.gov but here is a synopsis:

General characteristics attributed to churches: distinct legal existence, reocgnized creed and form of worship, definite and distinct eccelesiastical government, formal code of doctrine and discipline, distinct religious history, organization of ordained ministers, ordained minister selected after completing prescribed courses of study, literature of its own, established places of worship, regular religious services

Yup sounds JUST like all the Unitarians I know! I’d say they have a couple of these and it probably wouldn’t be hard to challenge this status, albeit rather meanspirited.

There is a distinct advantage to characterization as “church” versus other religious organization or exempt organization. You don’t have to request exempt status, you don’t have to file yearly forms, you don’t have to make the information public…how do you think Jesse Jackson gets away with HIS compensation package!

Lisa N
 
I know of a few “The Holy Spirit directed me to start this church” who would have a very difficult time meeting the govt. standand for tax exempt status.

Looks like a change in definition is required here by the govt.
 
My wife and I are related by marriage to a couple who have hopped on to the UU’s bandwagon. I also know a few other people though volunteer work who are UU’s. They are all good folks who are a bit spacey, liberal and spiritually lazy. What seems to be so attractive to this whole group is that everything is “okay” as long as you are “nice.” Which is why so many humanists flock to this church. No one really tells you what to do or believe other than being tolerant and accepting of everyone/everything. Which is great if you base your spirituality on Robert Fulghum and Leo Buscaglia. That may sound harsh but Christianity especially Catholicism is not EASY! We must make very serious choices to properly form our moral conscience based on our faith, and the teachings of the Church, not whatever seems to be the latest trend in humanism. How humanism can tolerate the killing of pre born humans is probably the most significant example of the hypocrisy that exists in these “progressive” theologies.

One woman I know who is a UU was “outraged” about a month ago that her ex-husband was watching the Fox News Channel with their boys, when she came to pick up them up. She also found out that he took them to Church (he has remained Catholic) that weekend. Of course, this is a guy who used to take the kids to Grateful Dead concerts and drive drunk with the kids in the car a year ago. We tried to help her get her outrage into perspective. So much for being tolerant of everyone’s beliefs eh?
 
GoodKnight1443,
My husband recently joined the UU Society. When you put it as you have, I can kind of see why he would chose that over the Catholic Church. I am just still at a loss as how to handle it. I am afraid that if I had family around, I would not still be with him. Even though I do not believe in divorce, but I do believe we all have a right to be happy.
 
I must admit, my experience with at least some Unitarian-Universalists has been somewhat less than positive. For a group that supposedly is built around the toleration of differences, the ones I know tend to be rather critical of those with defined beliefs. I was told that essentially, if I was raised Catholic, the only reason I am Catholic is because I was indoctrinated when I was a child.

Unfortunately, I think many Unitarians have entered the Unitarian Church with rather negative experiences of more defined belief systems; as a result both they and their children tend to have rather negative views of such belief systems. Kind of ironic for a church supposedly built on toleration.

Of course, I think this points out the larger contradiction in American politics where people either agree with you, or they are traitors or nut jobs (depending on which side of the political spectrum you happen to sit).

–
Bill
 
I have not found intolerance to be the case at all with the UUs. Spiritual laziness yes. The main diff between UUs and Catholics that I have experienced is that we are Trinitarians. But even that is more tolerated in the UU ranks since they have accepted neo-pagan religions who may also believe in triune gods.
I have never had anything but good experiences with UUs. And I see the main attraction for a Catholic being the fellowship and conversation and community with highly intelligent, well read and well traveled members. Most parishes I have been to are very clique-ish and not very friendly. For spirituality to prosper and grow one needs to share it. The UUs are very friendly and social. The celebrate every holiday there is!
 
I must admit, my experience with at least some Unitarian-Universalists has been somewhat less than positive. For a group that supposedly is built around the toleration of differences, the ones I know tend to be rather critical of those with defined beliefs. I was told that essentially, if I was raised Catholic, the only reason I am Catholic is because I was indoctrinated when I was a child.

Unfortunately, I think many Unitarians have entered the Unitarian Church with rather negative experiences of more defined belief systems; as a result both they and their children tend to have rather negative views of such belief systems. Kind of ironic for a church supposedly built on toleration.

Of course, I think this points out the larger contradiction in American politics where people either agree with you, or they are traitors or nut jobs (depending on which side of the political spectrum you happen to sit).

–
Bill
I’m a former UU who isn’t currently a member. I attend potlucks at the local UU, tho’. It is very successful and growing; it has a woman minister.

UU’s tend to be refugees from other faiths in the same percentage as that faith in the general US population. They are looking for a church-like social structure with Sunday school to learn Bible stories, support and study groups, teen-age activities, etc. They tend to attract divorced persons, families with small children (Sunday school), and older folks. They are white, affluent, well-educated. Not very diverse. UU used to be very intellectual in its preaching–big emphasis on this, in the protestant tradition–now it’s warmer and the churches are designed to be a home-away-from-home like the protestant churches. UU fulfills all the definitions of a denomination. Their ministers go to divinity school and are well educated; they teach comparative religion and ethics and address modern issues. UU’s tend to be white liberals, voting Democratic. They tend to be smug and not very tolerant of other ideas, but are more tolerant of people.

UU started in the 16th c or thereabouts in eastern Europe and included many martyrs. The influences, tho’, go back to the earliest centuries, as UU rejects the trinity, that Jesus was a god, which the earliest ’ heresies’ did.

UU included many of our founding fathers; Thos Jefferson was UU. (Unitarian then). UU has remained small tho’, because of its demographics and because it doesn’t tell you what to do. Most people want a definite answer to life’s problems. Do this and be saved. UU doesn’t do this. People often join UU when they are in transition or need its support; they fall away when they are settled and on their feet, another reason the denomination doesn’t grow much. I started attending the potlucks because I felt that I wasn’t being social enough.

UU includes non-trinitarians of many stripes, Theists, deists, agnostics, atheists, secular Jews and people who just want to socialize, or need to, I guess. But it does include people who believe in a god and those who don’t, but who honor Jesus and his teachings.
 
My wife and I are related by marriage to a couple who have hopped on to the UU’s bandwagon. I also know a few other people though volunteer work who are UU’s. They are all good folks who are a bit spacey, liberal and spiritually lazy. What seems to be so attractive to this whole group is that everything is “okay” as long as you are “nice.” Which is why so many humanists flock to this church. No one really tells you what to do or believe other than being tolerant and accepting of everyone/everything. Which is great if you base your spirituality on Robert Fulghum and Leo Buscaglia. That may sound harsh but Christianity especially Catholicism is not EASY! We must make very serious choices to properly form our moral conscience based on our faith, and the teachings of the Church, not whatever seems to be the latest trend in humanism. How humanism can tolerate the killing of pre born humans is probably the most significant example of the hypocrisy that exists in these “progressive” theologies.

One woman I know who is a UU was “outraged” about a month ago that her ex-husband was watching the Fox News Channel with their boys, when she came to pick up them up. She also found out that he took them to Church (he has remained Catholic) that weekend. Of course, this is a guy who used to take the kids to Grateful Dead concerts and drive drunk with the kids in the car a year ago. We tried to help her get her outrage into perspective. So much for being tolerant of everyone’s beliefs eh?
Well, I think driving drunk with the kids is pretty bad, enough to get custody withdrawn, myself. It trumps Fox News anyway.

UU’s are often environmentalists and spend their energies and money in other ways, living spare and non-materialist lives, doing lots of volunteer work, which is where you met them, donating to charities, including the well-funded UU Association, which is large for the size of the denomination and does a lot of good work. Many non-Catholics work hard, are generous,help others and are not spiritually lazy at all–it’s just that you don’t recognize how their religion manifests itself.

Just because you don’t see them praying the rosary doesn’t mean that they’re not religious.
 
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