Unitarian

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Does anyone have advise on showing a “unitarian christian” that they are wrong about the Holy Trinity not existing. I feel like I am :banghead: with this on another forum.
 
There is no argument that will automatically convince someone, infact unless people are already on the fence no argument will ever convince anyone of anything, the purpose of the argument is to make people think about it after the fact.

The first several verses of John illustrate the trinity,

There is also the beginning of Genesis in which God uses the plural to refer to himself, as well as a verse in Exodus I am unable to find now in which God both passes and stands beside Moses at the same time.
 
workingman said:
Does anyone have advise on showing a “unitarian christian” that they are wrong about the Holy Trinity not existing. I feel like I am :banghead: with this on another forum.
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I’ve always thought Unitarian churches are mega churches mixed out of Presbyterians, Lutherans and Methodists? And as far as I know these churches/this church are most definitely Trinitarian!
When I hear Unitarian in the sense you use it here, I am thinking of Oneness-Pentecostals or Jehovah’s Witnesses!

Am I wrong?
 
The best I can do is to recommend the Church Fathers, especially Saint Augustine. Unless they read or hear without a closed mind, Unitarians will never accept or understandthe Trinity.
Shalom haMeshiach.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
Esdra said:
I’ve always thought Unitarian churches are mega churches mixed out of Presbyterians, Lutherans and Methodists? And as far as I know these churches/this church are most definitely Trinitarian!
When I hear Unitarian in the sense you use it here, I am thinking of Oneness-Pentecostals or Jehovah’s Witnesses!

Am I wrong?
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No, the Unitarian movement began I believe in the 16th century in Eastern Europe. They hold a definite belief that God is One…not a Trinity.

When the Universalists and Unitarians formed the “UU Church” in the 19th-20th century…they began to drop a “unique” Christian expression…they teach of the love of God for humanity without a necessary “Christian focus”.

Many of our founding fathers were Unitarians or Diests.

I have attended a Unitarian meeting for worship with some friends…typical “Protestant” form of service…just not as “religious” as most Protestant services. The focus is more on service to our neighbors and community instead of personal salvation…we are in this together.
 
Publisher said:
No, the Unitarian movement began I believe in the 16th century in Eastern Europe. They hold a definite belief that God is One…not a Trinity.

When the Universalists and Unitarians formed the “UU Church” in the 19th-20th century…they began to drop a “unique” Christian expression…they teach of the love of God for humanity without a necessary “Christian focus”.

Many of our founding fathers were Unitarians or Diests.

I have attended a Unitarian meeting for worship with some friends…typical “Protestant” form of service…just not as “religious” as most Protestant services. The focus is more on service to our neighbors and community instead of personal salvation…we are in this together.
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Although it is worth noting that the OP did not say the person he was talking to was a UU, but that the individual was a unitarian.
 
Thank you for the responses so far. I know that no argument can convince her about the Trinity it is a matter of Faith. I have made extensive use of the Scriptures OT, NT, Church fathers and Scripture Catholic’s sight.

She denies Jesus divinity. God is God period. As far as I can tell her view of Jesus is he was just a prophet. He was not devine.

Thank you for the links I have not heard of Father Robert Barron. I will check them out.

I just found out that this person also has a RC background though I don’t know if that means raised a RC or just studied it yet. I did message her with a invite to view Catholics Come home.

She needs our prayers I will let you know how things go.
 
Publisher said:
No, the Unitarian movement began I believe in the 16th century in Eastern Europe. They hold a definite belief that God is One…not a Trinity.

When the Universalists and Unitarians formed the “UU Church” in the 19th-20th century…they began to drop a “unique” Christian expression…they teach of the love of God for humanity without a necessary “Christian focus”.

Many of our founding fathers were Unitarians or Diests.

I have attended a Unitarian meeting for worship with some friends…typical “Protestant” form of service…just not as “religious” as most Protestant services. The focus is more on service to our neighbors and community instead of personal salvation…we are in this together.
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Publisher is correct. The first Unitarian churches were in Transylvania and were championed by a man who was first a Catholic priest, then a Protestant minister, before becoming a Unitarian.

Today, they are found in many locations around the globe.

I should note that Unitarian Universalism in North America is somewhat different than it is outside the U.S.

In the U.S., it is as Publisher said. The “Christian expression” is either greatly lessened. although there are UU Christians.

Many congregations on the East Coast, especially in New England, were Christian and some still consider themselves to be Christian.

Outside the U.S., the majorty of UU congrations are Christian in nature, although their style of worship would differ depending on location.

There are a fairly large number of UUs in Northern India and in Indonesia.

As for convincing someone with Unitarian beliefs there is a trinity would be like trying to convince Catholics that the wine and bread they eat during communion is merely symbolic.

It is a matter of faith and belief in either case.

Seeker.
 
Publisher said:
No, the Unitarian movement began I believe in the 16th century in Eastern Europe. They hold a definite belief that God is One…not a Trinity.

When the Universalists and Unitarians formed the “UU Church” in the 19th-20th century…they began to drop a “unique” Christian expression…they teach of the love of God for humanity without a necessary “Christian focus”.

Many of our founding fathers were Unitarians or Diests.

I have attended a Unitarian meeting for worship with some friends…typical “Protestant” form of service…just not as “religious” as most Protestant services. The focus is more on service to our neighbors and community instead of personal salvation…we are in this together.
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Thank you my friend for clarifying. 🙂
But what are then these Churches called where Presbyterians, Lutherans and Methodists are unified? As far as I know they are mainstream-churches…
I guess I have mixed up the uniterian Churches with the ones I mentioned above.
They are trinitarian, aren’t they?
 
Esdra, we have such a parish about 40 minutes by car from us. It is referred to as an ecumenical parish. The area they are in is heavily fundamentalist and there is even a strong Anabaptist community (Old Order German Baptists). While there are not enough of any of the three denominations (Episcopal, Lutheran, an Presbyterian) to support a church, combined they are able to have services and to serve their community. As you and I have discussed before, in time of necessity, we can rise above our differences and worship God and serve His people.
 
Esdra said:
Thank you my friend for clarifying. 🙂
But what are then these Churches called where Presbyterians, Lutherans and Methodists are unified? As far as I know they are mainstream-churches…
I guess I have mixed up the uniterian Churches with the ones I mentioned above.
They are trinitarian, aren’t they?
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If the groups you state “unified”…it may be a United Church…not “unitarian”. When the Methodists and the United Brethren joined together, they formed the “United Methodist Church”.

Perhaps it’s something as simple as that…I don’t know for sure. The “United Church of Christ” was formed by some “Reformed”, “Congregational” and I would suspect some Presbyterians as well since they have “reformed” roots…and while historically they are Trinitarian…some of our more “conservative” brethren discount their movement as being too “liberal” and not “trinitarian” enough.🙂
 
Publisher said:
If the groups you state “unified”…it may be a United Church…not “unitarian”. When the Methodists and the United Brethren joined together, they formed the “United Methodist Church”.

Perhaps it’s something as simple as that…I don’t know for sure. The “United Church of Christ” was formed by some “Reformed”, “Congregational” and I would suspect some Presbyterians as well since they have “reformed” roots…and while historically they are Trinitarian…some of our more “conservative” brethren discount their movement as being too “liberal” and not “trinitarian” enough.🙂
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I think you’ve got it! Sometimes it happens on a national scale: in Canada a long time ago the whole Methodist Church, most of the Presbyterians, the Congregationalists and others joined into a United Church of Canada, and have stayed that way ever since; there’s a United Church in South India that includes the Anglicans also, and likewise in North India. Here in the U.S. it usually happens on a local level, with the individual congregations in a town or neighborhood merging, usually with much the same denominational components.

I’m Unitarian Universalist myself; I joined Catholic Answers Forums a few minutes ago just so that I could answer this!
 
Allogenes said:
I think you’ve got it! Sometimes it happens on a national scale: in Canada a long time ago the whole Methodist Church, most of the Presbyterians, the Congregationalists and others joined into a United Church of Canada, and have stayed that way ever since; there’s a United Church in South India that includes the Anglicans also, and likewise in North India. Here in the U.S. it usually happens on a local level, with the individual congregations in a town or neighborhood merging, usually with much the same denominational components.

I’m Unitarian Universalist myself; I joined Catholic Answers Forums a few minutes ago just so that I could answer this!
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Glad to meet you friend.
 
Oldtimer_7 said:
Esdra, we have such a parish about 40 minutes by car from us. It is referred to as an ecumenical parish. The area they are in is heavily fundamentalist and there is even a strong Anabaptist community (Old Order German Baptists). While there are not enough of any of the three denominations (Episcopal, Lutheran, an Presbyterian) to support a church, combined they are able to have services and to serve their community. As you and I have discussed before, in time of necessity, we can rise above our differences and worship God and serve His people.
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Oh I see it’s similar like in Austria with the Lutheran Evangelical Church and the Reformed-Evangelical Church.
Yes, I can remember that we were talking about that. 😉
Cool that you also remember. 😃
 
Publisher said:
If the groups you state “unified”…it may be a United Church…not “unitarian”. When the Methodists and the United Brethren joined together, they formed the “United Methodist Church”.

Perhaps it’s something as simple as that…I don’t know for sure. The “United Church of Christ” was formed by some “Reformed”, “Congregational” and I would suspect some Presbyterians as well since they have “reformed” roots…and while historically they are Trinitarian…some of our more “conservative” brethren discount their movement as being too “liberal” and not “trinitarian” enough.🙂
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Yes I know I read about that (don’t know if it was here or on wikipedia). They are considered as a mainstream Church - and by our more conservative brothers these Churches are often considered as “too liberal”.
 
seeker57 said:
Publisher is correct. The first Unitarian churches were in Transylvania and were championed by a man who was first a Catholic priest, then a Protestant minister, before becoming a Unitarian.

Today, they are found in many locations around the globe.

I should note that Unitarian Universalism in North America is somewhat different than it is outside the U.S.

In the U.S., it is as Publisher said. The “Christian expression” is either greatly lessened. although there are UU Christians.

Many congregations on the East Coast, especially in New England, were Christian and some still consider themselves to be Christian.

Outside the U.S., the majorty of UU congrations are Christian in nature, although their style of worship would differ depending on location.

There are a fairly large number of UUs in Northern India and in Indonesia.

As for convincing someone with Unitarian beliefs there is a trinity would be like trying to convince Catholics that the wine and bread they eat during communion is merely symbolic.

It is a matter of faith and belief in either case.

Seeker.
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Thank you for the information. The UU is one that I have not studied but now that you have piqued my interest I will delve fully into learning about it.

I presume that the UU do accept the Bible and believe it. If not, what is used in its place?

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
Allogenes said:
I think you’ve got it! Sometimes it happens on a national scale: in Canada a long time ago the whole Methodist Church, most of the Presbyterians, the Congregationalists and others joined into a United Church of Canada, and have stayed that way ever since; there’s a United Church in South India that includes the Anglicans also, and likewise in North India. Here in the U.S. it usually happens on a local level, with the individual congregations in a town or neighborhood merging, usually with much the same denominational components.

I’m Unitarian Universalist myself; I joined Catholic Answers Forums a few minutes ago just so that I could answer this!
Click to expand...
Welcome, my friend. I hope that you will not be a stranger and participate in the discussions, dialogues, and “arguements”? Each of us has much to learn and this ecumenical forum is the place to learn. Welcome again. Shalom.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
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