Unitarians

[catheflower]

Also, I asked the UU minister if I could be Christian and UU. She said, “Who told you that you couldn’t?” Then she said that as long as I support their principles, I am a UU. Also, she said that it’s welcome to be “exploring your Christianity”.

This is all about how we are defining Christian. I see both sides to the discussion. At the time I was in the UU church, I wasn’t sure what I believe. That was welcomed, too.

Also, another user said that UUs won’t make fun of other religions. Sadly, there will be people in ANY FAITH that will make fun of other religions.

In Christ,
Cathe

I will also say that UUs are welcoming of many liberals, but I don’t think they are open to conservative Christians. Depending on the church- the UU I attended was soooo liberal it should have been converted into a Planned Parenthood clinic! I would never have felt comfortable saying I was pro-life or against gay marriage. It was simply not how they were functioning.

UU World has featured articles that deny Christ. In the kids section, for Christmas, UU kids wrote in saying how they could celebrate Christmas w/o it being about Christ. They wanted to celebrate the birth of MLK Jr, Gandhi, Buddha, etc. Reason being those guys were “great men” just like Jesus. (That actually saddened me. To think kids weren’t believing that Jesus is the Messiah! ) I wouldn’t think the kids would want to share in a traditional Catholic Christmas celebration w/ their peers, but I’m sure the Catholic peers would be ostracized for their “rejection” of MLK JR et. al.

In Christ,
Cathe

 

[ibkc]

I will also say that UUs are welcoming of many liberals, but I don’t think they are open to conservative Christians.

I was talking to some UUs some years back, around 1999 or 2000 or so, and they told me that they view themselves as the liberal version of the religious right. They were not speaking for all UUs, of course, but I get the impression that their POV isn’t ununusual among UUs.

 

[Gertabelle]

Can a person be a Christian and a UU?

As so many others have pointed out, the UUs are a liberal group that consider all paths equal. A conservative Christian would not want to be part of such a group. A liberal would feel right at home. Both would be welcome, but again, why would a conservative want to be part of such a liberal group?

As for making jokes about the UUs… Well, I must admit that two of my favorite religion jokes are about UUs. (My other favorite religion joke is about Catholics!) I attended a Unitarian church during my time away from the Catholic Church, and I found the people very liberal, wam, and supportive. But it wasn’t for me, even in my non-Christian days. Incidentally, they thought the UU jokes were pretty funny. But then, most of them listened to National Public Radio and had already heard them (and many others) on A Prairie Home Companion.

Gertie

 

[ibkc]

Can a person be a Christian and a UU?

As so many others have pointed out, the UUs are a liberal group that consider all paths equal. A conservative Christian would not want to be part of such a group. A liberal would feel right at home. Both would be welcome, but again, why would a conservative want to be part of such a liberal group?

I tend to be politically conservative, but there was a time when I was unsure about religion and what was the truth. I had left Christianity, and was attracted to paganism, and I craved some community. The UUs initially looked good to me because of their open-minded approach, but I was very put off to find out that they are not welcoming of people with political views anywhere to the right of Lenin (or Lennon).

 

[Gertabelle]

I tend to be politically conservative, but there was a time when I was unsure about religion and what was the truth. I had left Christianity, and was attracted to paganism, and I craved some community. The UUs initially looked good to me because of their open-minded approach, but I was very put off to find out that they are not welcoming of people with political views anywhere to the right of Lenin (or Lennon).

Yeah, I don’t really see “politically conservative” meshing with paganism or the UUs. Their liberalism is both spiritual and political. And since their “religion” is basically humanism, it would be next to impossible for them not to camp with the political left.

Gert

 

[ibkc]

Yeah, I don’t really see “politically conservative” meshing with paganism or the UUs.

Obviously it can’t mesh with the UUs, but paganism is a broad category, and there are indeed politically conservative pagans - quite a few, actually. In fact, in Norse paganism (known as Asatru) conservatism is the default. And the guy who founded Wicca, an Englishman named Gerald Gardner, was a conservative. I think the confusion comes in when people start equating conservatism with how it is presented in the last ten or so years by American evangelicals, which is a distorted viewpoint.

 

[Erich]

At this stage, I can’t see why Trinitarian belief is the “core” of Christianity. Firstly, “Trinity” is never used in the bible. The essence of the three Persons was not declared clearly in the bible, compared to say, the fact that Jesus died and was raised again.

Matthew 28:19, “Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit”

Note that it says “name” not “names” – true, it doesn’t come right out and say “Trinity” but the fact that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit have one name is certainly the essence of the doctrine of the Trinity.

Baptism is the means of entrance into the community of the risen one, the Church… and Jesus commanded it. You can’t be considered a member of the community (i.e. Christian) if you’re not properly baptized (i.e. with water, using the Trinitarian formula). How can Trinitarian belief not be the core of Christianity?

It wasnt until the Council of Nicea that Jesus was officially defined as true God and true man, and of the same substance as the Father. I don’t think the first apostles believed that God was triune either.

You seem to be implying that no doctrine is believed until the pope or an ecumenical council issues a formal statement about it. Actually, doctrinal questions can remain in a not-yet-fully-defined state for years. The Church has never felt the need to define formally what there has been no particular pressure to define.

And yes, there was a real development in doctrine: there was an initial message, much clouded at the Fall, and then a progressively fuller explanation of God’s teachings as Israel was prepared for the Messiah, until the apostles were instructed by the Messiah himself.

Check out this link to see what doctrines were formally defined when (and why).

 

[Righteousone]

I do like the Unitarian beliefs. They go by a live and let live policy. Imagine how few wars we’d have if we all incorporated some of these principles into our current beliefs!

Yea, but just think of all the fewer wars we’d have if everyone believed in Jesus christ.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Yea, but just think of all the fewer wars we’d have if everyone believed in Jesus christ.

Amen.

 

[cheese_sdc]

Yea, but just think of all the fewer wars we’d have if everyone believed in Jesus christ.

You mean like the fighting between Protestants and Catholics in Ireland?

Or the fighting between Catholic Scotland and Protestant England?

Or England Vs. France?

Or Catholic French and the Protestant French?

Or between American and England?

Or between the Christian nations of England, France and American Vs. the Christian nation of Germany? (We fought that one twice!)

Or between the Christian nation of America vs. the Christian nation of Mexico?

Or between the Christian nation of Spain vs. the Christian nation of England?

Or between the Christian nation of the Confederate States of America vs. the Christian nation of the United States of America?

Or between the Christian nation of Columbia vs. the Christian nation of Peru?

Or the Spanish Civil War?

Or England vs. the Falklands?

Yeah. The world will be a better place if with all believed in Jesus.

 

[LDNCatholic]

You mean like the fighting between Protestants and Catholics in Ireland?

Or the fighting between Catholic Scotland and Protestant England?

Or England Vs. France?

Or Catholic French and the Protestant French?

Or between American and England?

Or between the Christian nations of England, France and American Vs. the Christian nation of Germany? (We fought that one twice!)

Or between the Christian nation of America vs. the Christian nation of Mexico?

Or between the Christian nation of Spain vs. the Christian nation of England?

Or between the Christian nation of the Confederate States of America vs. the Christian nation of the United States of America?

Or between the Christian nation of Columbia vs. the Christian nation of Peru?

Or the Spanish Civil War?

Or England vs. the Falklands?

Yeah. The world will be a better place if with all believed in Jesus.

OK-If the world believed in Jesus Christ AND followed His teachings. Better?

EDIT: England didn’t go to war with the Falklands, they went to war with Argentina over the Falklands.

 

[cheese_sdc]

OK-If the world believed in Jesus Christ AND followed His teachings. Better?

I dunno. I get tired of hearing about “being better Christians”. Christianity is what it’s followers make it to be.

England didn’t go to war with the Falklands, they went to war with Argentina over the Falklands.

Ah! Thanks for catching that.

 

[blessed_wife]

I dunno. I get tired of hearing about “being better Christians”. Christianity is what it’s followers make it to be.

“The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried.” G.K. Chesterton

But Our Lord gives us the Saints to look to for inspiration and direction about how to truly follow Him.

 

[cheddarsox]

I think this thread is actually two discussions at once. Unitarian Universalism is the name of a denomination, but it is NOT the same as Unitarian Christianity, even though the word Unitarian is used in both.

Unitarianism is a branch of Christianity. There are still Unitarian believers and Unitarian churches that are most decidely Christian…unless your definition of Christianity is a person who accepts the Trinity.

As Unitarianism began to lose steam as a movement (it had it’s hey day a couple of hundred years ago), and Universalist churches also found themselves floundering, the majority of those churches opted to merge. When UU began, it was a Christian organization, but over the years, it became what it is today, a fellowship or liberal religious beliefs.

There are Unitarian churches and Universalist churches that opted NOT to merge.

And over time the christians in UU tended to drift away as humanism, paganism, and anti-Christian sentiments grew stronger within UU.

I am not certain if the OP meant UU when they started this thread, or if they are referring to the Unitarian interpretation of Christianity.

I attended a UU church for several years, and I wonder why they don’t find a more fitting name for what they now are. They have an odd way of clinging to “tradition” in areas that mean very little, while embracing pushing the boundaries in others. They tend to claim famous Unitarian and Universalist preachers and thinkers as their own, when I am quite sure those people would be horrified by what UU is today and want no part of it. That smacks to me of dishonesty and misrepresentation.

Historically, there are people that have been Unitarian or Universalist that it is simply a lie to say they are also UU. It would be like claiming Catholics are really Protestants, because Protestantism once had connections to Catholicism.

So, it is good to be clear whether or not what we are discussing is Unitarianism, or the modern day religion of Unitarian Universalism, because they are radically different from one another.

cheddar

 

[blacktiger057]

Yea, but just think of all the fewer wars we’d have if everyone believed in Jesus christ.

Cheese has an excellant point. Even if everybody believed in God or Jesus, the next question would be “Whose interpretation of God/Jesus?” And not everyone will ever agree with just your interpretation, because there are six billion plus people into the world.

What I am saying is if that we could all accept that people do have different spiritual practices than you and that we should not judge them on there spiritual practices (i.e. Witchcraft is evil). Acceptance is key. If we all were able to see the good in others and accept different forms of worship that they may carry out, we will then styart to see peace. It sounds nice to say that the belief in Jesus would bring about peace, but we both know that it won’t, just as belief in the pagan god Pan would not bring about peace. Acceptance is the only way.

 

[Righteousone]

Cheese has an excellant point. Even if everybody believed in God or Jesus, the next question would be “Whose interpretation of God/Jesus?” And not everyone will ever agree with just your interpretation, because there are six billion plus people into the world.

What I am saying is if that we could all accept that people do have different spiritual practices than you and that we should not judge them on there spiritual practices (i.e. Witchcraft is evil). Acceptance is key. If we all were able to see the good in others and accept different forms of worship that they may carry out, we will then styart to see peace. It sounds nice to say that the belief in Jesus would bring about peace, but we both know that it won’t, just as belief in the pagan god Pan would not bring about peace. Acceptance is the only way.

Well then that’s too bad because there is only one church that Jesus created and that is the holy Catholic church. And there is only one man who was/is the Messiah and that is Jesus Christ who died for your as well as everyone’s sins. The sooner one realizes this, the better off the world will be.

 

[LDNCatholic]

What I am saying is if that we could all accept that people do have different spiritual practices than you and that we should not judge them on there spiritual practices (i.e. Witchcraft is evil). Acceptance is key.

But then that would mean you must accept that we think witchcraft is evil. We just have a different way of seeing things than you.

 

[ibkc]

What I am saying is if that we could all accept that people do have different spiritual practices than you and that we should not judge them on there spiritual practices (i.e. Witchcraft is evil).

You sound like a good candidate for the UUs.

cheddarsox, thank you for the explanation of Unitarian vs. UU. That cleared up some questions I had.

 

[puzzleannie]

Are Unitarians even Christian? If one does not believe in the Holy Trinity and that Jesus Christ is True Man and True God than how could one be a Christian since such a belief is central and core to Christianity?

no they are not. they are, as their name clearly indicates, unitarian, that is they believe in one God, one divine person, not in the Trinity, ergo, they do not believe Jesus Christ is God, therefore they are not Christian. it should also be noted that every group that self-designates as “unitarian” does not necessarily belong to a professed denomination with a credal statement or report to any authority outside their autonomous group, so it is not easy to speak with certainty about any Unitarian belief or teaching, other that to refer to those who began the movement in New England (goodle Unitarian, Transcendentalists etc).

 

[puzzleannie]

I dunno. I get tired of hearing about “being better Christians”. Christianity is what it’s followers make it to be.

Ah! Thanks for catching that.

actually, Christianity is what its founder, Jesus Christ, established it to be.