United Church of Christ Pastor Blesses Planned Parenthood After It Sells Aborted Babies

[Sy_Noe]

So have you been watching any of these videos?

I have watched some video from PP opponents. But I’ve also been willing to listen to those on the other side of the issue. That’s the only way I believe I can get the whole picture. More recently I read what the New England Journal of Medicine concluded and what members of the clergy, including Christian clergy, had to say.

An LA Times article had this to say. "But the videos, which were captured by hidden cameras as part of a strategy funded by abortion foes, have had an additional effect. They’ve also roused support for Planned Parenthood, which provides a variety of health services for women… the respected New England Journal of Medicine published two essays in support of the organization. One concludes: “We thank the women who made the choice to help improve the human condition through their tissue donation. … We are outraged by those who debase these women, this work, and Planned Parenthood by distorting the facts for political ends.”

latimes.com/nation/la-na-planned-parenthood-20150821-story.html

The statement by the clergy I thought spoke well about how their faiths and the best of religious traditions demand care for the poor and marginalized. That every person born into this world deserves access to safe, affordable, high quality health care. About the lives saved thru research. And the fact that fraudulent tactics were used when scriptures condemn dishonesty. And that rather than respect religious liberty and individual conscience, some seek to impose their values and views that most Americans do not hold.

plannedparenthood.org/about-us/newsroom/press-releases/planned-parenthood-clergy-advocacy-board-releases-response-to-smear-campaign

So at this point I am just awaiting to see if PP is charged with and actually found guilty of crimes in a court of law. Until if and when that time comes, I will no longer be following the story as much and we respectfully will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I have watched some video from PP opponents. But I’ve also been willing to listen to those on the other side of the issue. That’s the only way I believe I can get the whole picture. More recently I read what the New England Journal of Medicine concluded and what members of the clergy, including Christian clergy, had to say.

An LA Times article had this to say. "But the videos, which were captured by hidden cameras as part of a strategy funded by abortion foes, have had an additional effect. They’ve also roused support for Planned Parenthood, which provides a variety of health services for women… the respected New England Journal of Medicine published two essays in support of the organization. One concludes: “We thank the women who made the choice to help improve the human condition through their tissue donation. … We are outraged by those who debase these women, this work, and Planned Parenthood by distorting the facts for political ends.”

latimes.com/nation/la-na-planned-parenthood-20150821-story.html

The statement by the clergy I thought spoke well about how their faiths and the best of religious traditions demand care for the poor and marginalized. That every person born into this world deserves access to safe, affordable, high quality health care. About the lives saved thru research. And the fact that fraudulent tactics were used when scriptures condemn dishonesty. And that rather than respect religious liberty and individual conscience, some seek to impose their values and views that most Americans do not hold.

plannedparenthood.org/about-us/newsroom/press-releases/planned-parenthood-clergy-advocacy-board-releases-response-to-smear-campaign

So at this point I am just awaiting to see if PP is charged with and actually found guilty of crimes in a court of law. Until if and when that time comes, I will no longer be following the story as much and we respectfully will just have to agree to disagree.

Have you watched the videos being released every week recently?
What are your reactions to what you have seen and heard in these videos-never mind whether PP will be charged or not. Have you really set down to listen and watch so you can make up your own mind?

 

[Sy_Noe]

Have you watched the videos being released every week recently?
What are your reactions to what you have seen and heard in these videos-never mind whether PP will be charged or not. Have you really set down to listen and watch so you can make up your own mind?

Not every wk recently, no, once I determined I have more important things to concern myself with in my faith than every wk watching another video obtained thru fraudulent means by a group I believe clearly with a political agenda in mind. I have heard and read about them though for instance even here on CAF as I’ve found they’re a big topic in conservative circles. Yes as I thought I had already indicated, I’ve made up my mind for now and it is generally in line with the clergy I linked to earlier. That’s why I said until it is proven to me in a court of law, not by conservative claims and innuendo, that PP is guilty of a crime, that I no longer need to follow the story. There’s really nothing more to the story for me to say anything about. That’s why I said in the meantime we will just have to respectfully agree to disagree. Always the while wishing peace and God’s blessings.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Not every wk recently, no, once I determined I have more important things to concern myself with in my faith than every wk watching another video obtained thru fraudulent means by a group I believe clearly with a political agenda in mind. I have heard and read about them though for instance even here on CAF as I’ve found they’re a big topic in conservative circles. Yes as I thought I had already indicated, I’ve made up my mind for now and it is generally in line with the clergy I linked to earlier. That’s why I said until it is proven to me in a court of law, not by conservative claims and innuendo, that PP is guilty of a crime, that I no longer need to follow the story. There’s really nothing more to the story for me to say anything about. That’s why I said in the meantime we will just have to respectfully agree to disagree. Always the while wishing peace and God’s blessings.

I really have no words.

 

[campeador]

I really have no words.

One word:

Claque

 

[Peter_Plato]

One word:

Claque

Yup.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Not every wk recently, no, once I determined I have more important things to concern myself with in my faith than every wk watching another video obtained thru fraudulent means by a group I believe clearly with a political agenda in mind. I have heard and read about them though for instance even here on CAF as I’ve found they’re a big topic in conservative circles. Yes as I thought I had already indicated, I’ve made up my mind for now and it is generally in line with the clergy I linked to earlier. That’s why I said until it is proven to me in a court of law, not by conservative claims and innuendo, that PP is guilty of a crime, that I no longer need to follow the story. There’s really nothing more to the story for me to say anything about. That’s why I said in the meantime we will just have to respectfully agree to disagree. Always the while wishing peace and God’s blessings.

Sy Noe, I believe that most people who are pro-choice are thinking along the same lines as you. The videos were disturbing, but now that there are confessions that at least one of them was doctored and untruthful, people are just shaking their heads and wondering. We’ll wait and see what is proven in court. If there was no illegal conduct, then I think there will be no any changes to how they operate.

And as you say, we will have to respectfully agree to disagree. I doubt there will be anything that will change minds on either side.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Sy Noe, I believe that most people who are pro-choice are thinking along the same lines as you. The videos were disturbing, but now that there are confessions that at least one of them was doctored and untruthful, people are just shaking their heads and wondering. We’ll wait and see what is proven in court. If there was no illegal conduct, then I think there will be no any changes to how they operate.

And as you say, we will have to respectfully agree to disagree. I doubt there will be anything that will change minds on either side.

I have not heard that any were doctored or untruthful.

 

[sarah_j]

I have watched some video from PP opponents. But I’ve also been willing to listen to those on the other side of the issue. That’s the only way I believe I can get the whole picture. More recently I read what the New England Journal of Medicine concluded.

The article in the New England Journal of Medicine, written by a Dr. Charo,
reads more like a letter to the editor of the NY Times in support of Planned Parenthood
than an article on actual medicine.

It’s a sad state of affairs when the NEJM sees fit to publish such garbage.

nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1510279

 

[Peter_Plato]

The videos were disturbing, but now that there are confessions that at least one of them was doctored and untruthful, people are just shaking their heads and wondering.

Where were these “confessions” made and by whom?

If you are going to make such an allegation it ought to be supported by actual references to legitimate sources, no?

Or are you merely muddying the water by casting aspersions?

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Sorry for not posting links to the reports of doctored films.

thinkprogress.org/health/2015/08/20/3693340/planned-parenthood-video-photos/

 

[Peter_Plato]

Sorry for not posting links to the reports of doctored films.

thinkprogress.org/health/2015/08/20/3693340/planned-parenthood-video-photos/

This is a joke, right?

One photograph that depicts a stillborn fetus and was not an actual aborted fetus renders false EVERYTHING else in the videos and makes the producers out to be a contemptible cadre of liars?

Interesting how you claim “at least one of them” – referring to the entire video – was “doctored and untruthful” when the only concern was the one image was not one of an actually aborted fetus but a stillborn one.

Aside from the fact that how the fetus died really would make little difference as to how it would appear in the photo (though aborted fetuses are frequently dismembered in the process,) would you care to explain how showing such a photo as a graphic makes the entire video "doctored and untruthful?

This is straining at gnats and if that is the entirety of the case you can make against CMP the only reasonable responses are :yawn:
or a less apathetic

 

[campeador]

Sorry for not posting links to the reports of doctored films.

thinkprogress.org/health/2015/08/20/3693340/planned-parenthood-video-photos/

‘Center for American Progress’ isn’t a real news site.

Seems some posters have an agenda, not a desire to discuss honestly.

 

[7_Sorrows]

‘Center for American Progress’ isn’t a real news site.

Seems some posters have an agenda, not a desire to discuss honestly.

exactly.

 

[sarah_j]

… the only concern was the one image was not one of an actually aborted fetus but a stillborn one.

When I saw the 7th video, it was obvious to me that the fetus in the picture
wasn’t the aborted baby whose face was cut open to remove its brain,
as that baby was no longer in one piece and the woman in the video described
pushing it’s mangled body into the trash.


I assumed the stillborn fetus was pictured to show what a baby of that stage
of development looks like.

Yes, the pro-abortionists are grasping at straws to discredit Daleidon.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Sorry for not posting links to the reports of doctored films.

thinkprogress.org/health/2015/08/20/3693340/planned-parenthood-video-photos/

ComplineSanFran, don’t be sorry. Thank you for posting the link as I hadn’t actually seen this particular more recent report until you posted it.

But I knew it wouldn’t matter. I could smell objection coming to whatever source was posted if the source didn’t exactly fit the agenda or narrative of the anti-choice side and that of the opponents of women’s legal reproductive rights.

“Multiple Media Outlets Have Consistently Called Out CMP’s Videos For Showing “Nothing Illegal” And Taking Planned Parenthood “Grossly Out Of Context.” Multiple media outlets, including the New York Times¸ the Guardian, the Huffington Post, and the Daily Beast, have blasted the Center for Medical Progress’ deceptively-edited videos as the anti-choice organization continues to release them. After the first video, FactCheck.org debunked CMP’s claim that Planned Parenthood was “selling aborted baby parts,” detailing how it was inaccurate and unfounded. The videos have also been called out for taking Planned Parenthood personnel’s words “grossly out of context” and for showing “nothing illegal.” The New York Times similarly wrote that the videos were engaging in a “campaign of deception,” criticizing those using the videos for political purposes for caring “nothing about the truth.” [Media]”

And here is the fact check debunking claims made from an edited video when compared to the actual unedited version.

factcheck.org/2015/07/unspinning-the-planned-parenthood-video/

And as you can see the New York Times was even mentioned in the Media Matters link along with several others.

"The full video of the lunch meeting, over two hours long and released by the Center for Medical Progress, shows something very different from what these critics claim. Clearly, the shorter version was edited to eliminate statements by Dr. Nucatola explaining that Planned Parenthood does not profit from tissue donation…

“The Center for Medical Progress video campaign is a dishonest attempt to make legal, voluntary and potentially lifesaving tissue donations appear nefarious and illegal. Lawmakers responding by promoting their own anti-choice agenda are rewarding deception and putting women’s health and their constitutionally protected rights at risk.”

nytimes.com/2015/07/22/opinion/the-campaign-of-deception-against-planned-parenthood.html?_r=0

But don’t worry. I know these will be rejected as well. As you said, “I doubt there will be anything that will change minds on either side”. And as we said, we will have to respectfully agree to disagree.

God bless and peace be with you and with all.

 

[Peter_Plato]

ComplineSanFran, don’t be sorry. Thank you for posting the link as I hadn’t actually seen this particular more recent report until you posted it.

But I knew it wouldn’t matter. I could smell objection coming to whatever source was posted if the source didn’t exactly fit the agenda or narrative of the anti-choice side and that of the opponents of women’s legal reproductive rights.

“Multiple Media Outlets Have Consistently Called Out CMP’s Videos For Showing “Nothing Illegal” And Taking Planned Parenthood “Grossly Out Of Context.” Multiple media outlets, including the New York Times¸ the Guardian, the Huffington Post, and the Daily Beast, have blasted the Center for Medical Progress’ deceptively-edited videos as the anti-choice organization continues to release them. After the first video, FactCheck.org debunked CMP’s claim that Planned Parenthood was “selling aborted baby parts,” detailing how it was inaccurate and unfounded. The videos have also been called out for taking Planned Parenthood personnel’s words “grossly out of context” and for showing “nothing illegal.” The New York Times similarly wrote that the videos were engaging in a “campaign of deception,” criticizing those using the videos for political purposes for caring “nothing about the truth.” [Media Matters for America, 7/15/15;7/21/15; 7/22/15]”

http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/08/19/5-things-to-know-about-the-center-for-medical-p/205026

And here is the fact check debunking claims made from an edited video when compared to the actual unedited version.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/unspinning-the-planned-parenthood-video/

And as you can see the New York Times was even mentioned in the Media Matters link along with several others.

"The full video of the lunch meeting, over two hours long and released by the Center for Medical Progress, shows something very different from what these critics claim. Clearly, the shorter version was edited to eliminate statements by Dr. Nucatola explaining that Planned Parenthood does not profit from tissue donation…

“The Center for Medical Progress video campaign is a dishonest attempt to make legal, voluntary and potentially lifesaving tissue donations appear nefarious and illegal. Lawmakers responding by promoting their own anti-choice agenda are rewarding deception and putting women’s health and their constitutionally protected rights at risk.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/22/o...eception-against-planned-parenthood.html?_r=0

But don’t worry. I know these will be rejected as well. As you said, “I doubt there will be anything that will change minds on either side”. And as we said, we will have to respectfully agree to disagree.

God bless and peace be with you and with all.

The real problem, then, as you are at pains to point out, is NOT that the editing falsifies the positions or words of the PP employees, but that the words and actions of those employees are wildly inconsistent in different parts of the videos.

Keep in mind that the longer unedited versions of the videos were not kept buried somewhere but released almost simultaneously with the shorter, to the point, versions.

As an example of the inconsistencies, (from your cited article) "At one point, Gatter says that “we’re not in this for the money,” and later she reiterates that “money is not the important thing.”

The problem is that at the end of the video she contradicts those “tentative” statements by suggesting the higher price of $100 per specimen is not enough and concludes, “Let me just figure out what others are getting, and if this is in the ballpark, then it’s fine, if it’s still low, then we can bump it up. I want a Lamborghini.”

So should Gatter be taken at her word that “we’re not in this for the money,” or that she is in it for the money to buy herself a Lamborghini? Whose problem is that inconsistency? Which is the true reason Gatter is "in it” for?

Where is the real issue, here? Is it with the editing of the videos or the inconsistencies inherent in the statements of the PP employees, themselves?

Your post doesn’t consider the cumulative case to be made by considering the entire scope of what PP is up to. Rather, you are seeking to refocus attention on minutiae in order to distract from the big picture.

 

[7_Sorrows]

The real problem, then, as you are at pains to point out, is NOT that the editing falsifies the positions or words of the PP employees, but that the words and actions of those employees are wildly inconsistent in different parts of the videos.

Keep in mind that the longer unedited versions of the videos were not kept buried somewhere but released almost simultaneously with the shorter, to the point, versions.

As an example of the inconsistencies, (from your cited article) "At one point, Gatter says that “we’re not in this for the money,” and later she reiterates that “money is not the important thing.”

The problem is that at the end of the video she contradicts those “tentative” statements by suggesting the higher price of $100 per specimen is not enough and concludes, “Let me just figure out what others are getting, and if this is in the ballpark, then it’s fine, if it’s still low, then we can bump it up. I want a Lamborghini.”

So should Gatter be taken at her word that “we’re not in this for the money,” or that she is in it for the money to buy herself a Lamborghini? Whose problem is that inconsistency? Which is the true reason Gatter is "in it” for?

Where is the real issue, here? Is it with the editing of the videos or the inconsistencies inherent in the statements of the PP employees, themselves?

Your post doesn’t consider the cumulative case to be made by considering the entire scope of what PP is up to. Rather, you are seeking to refocus attention on minutiae in order to distract from the big picture.

Thank you for your post! Especially the last paragraph.

 

[Peter_Plato]

Thank you for your post! Especially the last paragraph.

It seems to me quite obvious that the so called “spin” and “deception” surrounding these videos stems completely from the fact the PP employees know they are threading a fine line between what is legal and what is clearly immoral. They want to maintain a facade of legality in their words and demeanor while, at the same time, make what they do lucrative while pretending they are doing an invaluable service to women. It is this very tenuous position they have placed themselves in that should be seen for what it is - put bluntly: an attempt to put lipstick on a pig.

You can wrap an old fish in the Washington Post, but in the end it will still stink.

 

[rfournier103]

No surprise they did this…

I’m okay! You’re okay! We’re all okay! Nobody sins! Everyone goes to heaven no matter what!

My wife attended a UCC congregation before she became Catholic. I went with her to more than a few services and the above statements were what I heard every time I went.

I wonder if since Jesus forgives everything, why be good? He’ll just forgive you, anyway…

Very poor Christian theology by ANY standard. Basically a “feel-good do what you want” community. The pastor (a lapsed Catholic) talked about a woman’s right to choose and the beauty of life just a few weeks later.

I also found them to be very weak in the Scripture department (one reading per week!) for a Protestant community. Maybe if they read more Scripture they would stumble across the “thou shalt not kill” Commandment? That’s in the Protestant Bible, right? In their herculean effort not to judge, there’s no teaching or moral guidance whatsoever. Just a weekly dose of “Jesus loves you”!

I love Jesus. I know He loves me - even when I don’t deserve it. But besides that one point, there is so much more to know! Jesus (and his Apostles) gave us rules to live by. Not much mention of that in the UCC. Pity.