United Methodist and Episcopalian Church Clergy Lead Prayer Rally to “Bless” Abortion Clinic

[Even_So]

Even So All I did was point out the obvious. Are you saying that you don’t see the connection between the Reformation Principal of Sola Scriptura and people ‘discovering’ horrendous and anti-Christian concepts in Holy Scripture? Then what is it that you think it is that ‘allows’ these Christian leaders to develop these ideas unless it is their interpretations of the Bible?

Sorry Topper, shudda used a smiley.

 

[Sy_Noe]

I see this more in somewhat of a different light. The Catholic faithful and the clergy and members of mainline denominations of course do not agree on everything. And this matter is one of the issues where there can be, and are, differences among various Christian communities and within some communities as well. But the article said this group of clergy in Ohio was hoping the blessing would help protect the clinic, its staff, and the women seeking a legal service from protesters. I’ve never been to an abortion clinic myself but it has already been established by other posters here for me that at least a minority of such protesters have been known to shout hate and judgment. I did suspect as much. And we’ve certainly all heard of even worse attacks orchestrated by some on the so called “pro life” side. Again a minority, thank God. But I don’t see anything wrong with praying that people going in and out are kept safe and and protected from verbal or physical abuse and potential harm by even a minority of protesters. And that they are given the strength to endure such protesters. That they are would be a blessing. As surely even anyone here who opposes women’s reproductive rights and the legal right to an abortion (as I know many of you do) would not want any person walking to and from a clinic also harmed in any way, physically, mentally, or emotionally. Or at least I would hope and pray none of us would want to see harm brought to them.

 

[TK421]

I was under the impression that Methodists were still against abortion. Does this woman represent a more secular arm of the Methodist Church?

 

[Sy_Noe]

I was under the impression that Methodists were still against abortion. Does this woman represent a more secular arm of the Methodist Church?

I’m not UM but hope this helps!

“We are equally bound to respect the sacredness of the life and well-being of the mother and the unborn child.”

“We recognize tragic conflicts of life with life that may justify abortion, and in such cases we support the legal option of abortion under proper medical procedures by certified medical providers. We support parental, guardian, or other responsible adult notification and consent before abortions can be performed on girls who have not yet reached the age of legal adulthood. We cannot affirm abortion as an acceptable means of birth control, and we unconditionally reject it as a means of gender selection or eugenics (see Resolution 3184).”

“It’s important to note that the Church’s statements on social issues, such as abortion, represent the effort of the General Conference to speak to human issues in the contemporary world from a sound biblical and theological foundation. They are intended to be instructive and persuasive, but they are not church law and are not binding on members. Members will hold differing views on abortion. There is no requirement for members to agree with the Church’s view.”

umc.org/what-we-believe/the-nurturing-community#abortion

umc.org/what-we-believe/what-is-the-united-methodist-position-on-abortion

 

[josh987654321]

“We recognize tragic conflicts of life with life that may justify abortion, and in such cases we support the legal option of abortion under proper medical procedures by certified medical providers. We support parental, guardian, or other responsible adult notification and consent before abortions can be performed on girls who have not yet reached the age of legal adulthood. We cannot affirm abortion as an acceptable means of birth control, and we unconditionally reject it as a means of gender selection or eugenics (see Resolution 3184).”

This is the problem, if it’s morally permissible to kill an unborn child in the mothers womb, than what does it matter when it comes to limiting it? or if it’s used an acceptable means of birth control? or if it’s used for eugenic reasons?

If a mother doesn’t want to have a boy/girl, what right do you have to say ‘X’ amount of people can have a boy and ‘X’ amount of people can have a girl? who are you to dictate the terms someone can have an abortion or not?

The child in the mothers womb is either of no value or worth and hence people should have free reign over doing whatever they please with them, or else they do have value and worth and none should be allowed to murder them in their mothers womb. There is no, “Let’s allow it a little for only these cases, but oh no, those cases are taking it too far.”

Then when it’s an accepted practice, who’s to say a newly born has any worth or value? after all, you probably just killed one yesterday that was the same age or level of development, only they were in the womb, really there is no difference between them, so now the new born don’t matter either and etc etc etc etc etc.

It started out with limitations, but people must soon awaken to the illogicality of such a position.

“For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.”

 

[Sy_Noe]

This is the problem, if it’s morally permissible to kill an unborn child in the mothers womb, than what does it matter when it comes to limiting it? or if it’s used an acceptable means of birth control? or if it’s used for eugenic reasons?

If a mother doesn’t want to have a boy/girl, what right do you have to say ‘X’ amount of people can have a boy and ‘X’ amount of people can have a girl? who are you to dictate the terms someone can have an abortion or not?

The child in the mothers womb is either of no value or worth and hence people should have free reign over doing whatever they please with them, or else they do have value and worth and none should be allowed to murder them in their mothers womb. There is no, “Let’s allow it a little for only these cases, but oh no, those cases are taking it too far.”

Then when it’s an accepted practice, who’s to say a newly born has any worth or value? after all, you probably just killed one yesterday that was the same age or level of development, only they were in the womb, really there is no difference between them, so now the new born don’t matter either and etc etc etc etc etc.

It started out with limitations, but people must soon awaken to the illogicality of such a position.

“For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.”

It is my view that Christians are unlikely to ever agree on this, though I certainly can understand and respect your perspective as a faithful Catholic and that of others who share your view on this issue. But it isn’t as much of a problem for those who believe in the sacredness of all life, not only of unborn life, but as no less sacred, the woman’s life and the lives of her family members and loved ones. And then who go on to see the conflicts and complexities of life and therefore do not see everything, every case, in black and white terms. This appears more or less to be the UMC position as well as that of other mainline churches. I know Catholics do not distinguish between pro choice and pro abortion. But to equate the 2, I believe is not seeing the whole picture of the other side. No pro choice believer I know is pro abortion. But they simply see life, not in black and white, but with many conflicts, and after much prayer and consideration and discernment, have come to the understanding that they must allow for some freedom of choice on this very difficult issue. And I very much respect that view as well. Peace.

 

[josh987654321]

It is my view that Christians are unlikely to ever agree on this,

That doesn’t bother me, the ones who don’t agree are simply wrong, Christian or otherwise.

though I certainly can understand and respect your perspective as a faithful Catholic and that of others who share your view on this issue.

Thank you, I wish I could say the same for the other position, but I can’t.

But it isn’t as much of a problem for those who believe in the sacredness of all life, not only of unborn life, but as no less sacred, the woman’s life and the lives of her family members and loved ones.

Well, if they condone abortion because they consider the woman’s life and the lives of her family and loved ones as no less sacred than the unborn, than women, their family and loved ones should be extremely concerned. After all, they just condoned the murder someone ‘just as’ sacred, probably 20 of them only yesterday.

And then who go on to see the conflicts and complexities of life and therefore do not see everything, every case, in black and white terms.

In regards to the circumstances women face and the many reasons they may find themselves at an abortion clinic, this is not at all in black and white, but when it comes to killing a child in the mother’s womb, this is absolutely black and white.

The reasons some German people found themselves in the Nazi party and working at Auschwitz was not at all black and white, but rounding up and gassing Jews and others was absolutely black and white.

This appears more or less to be the UMC position as well as that of other mainline churches.

And I do not respect their position at all.

I am all for them trying to help women who find themselves in difficult and scary circumstances, but taking them to an abortion clinic or saying that such an option is okay, is not helping them and is absolutely black and white wrong.

I know Catholics do not distinguish between pro choice and pro abortion. But to equate the 2, I believe is not seeing the whole picture of the other side. No pro choice believer I know is pro abortion. But they simply see life, not in black and white, but with many conflicts,

Your right, I equate the two, as both views are absolutely wrong. I know peoples circumstances are never black and white, but when it comes to abortion, this is a black and white issue.

The moment someone says they ‘dislike’ abortion or wish to see it reduced but still available, they have let the cat of the bag and their whole view is faulty and hypocritical. Either abortion is the taking of an innocent life, and hence should not happen in any and all circumstances, or else it is totally fine and should be completely embraced in any and all circumstances. There is no other option. There is no middle ground nor compromise.

and after much prayer and consideration and discernment, have come to the understanding that they must allow for some freedom of choice on this very difficult issue. And I very much respect that view as well. Peace.

I don’t respect it at all. And I cannot wish you ‘peace’ or say ‘God Bless you’ with such views. But I will pray for you.

I hope this has helped

Thank you for reading
Josh