Uniting the split body

[confusedgirl]

I was reflecting today after mass about my family and my conversion and thinking about some things. I was reflecting on a particular passage in Romans today

And because of God’s gracious gift to me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you should. Instead, be modest in your thinking, and judge yourself according to the amount of faith that God has given you. We have many parts in the one body, and all these parts have different functions. In the same way, though we are many, we are one body in union with Christ, and we are all joined to each other as different parts of one body.(Romans 12:3-5, GNT)

From what I understand, we are many people joined together by our faith in Christ and we are the many parts joined together as one body with one belief in Christ. I grew up in several different protestant denominations, Apostolic, Baptist, Presbyterian, Pentecostal and it is clear to me that the pieces breaking away from the body of Christ have even been breaking away from each other. The Southern Baptists will not agree with the United Church and the Anglicans will not agree with the Seventh Day Adventists and it just goes on. Instead of one Universal Christian Church, we have one Catholic Church and 30,000+ denominations who stay that they have the answer.

St. Paul told us to stay together and instead there has been so many break offs which have lead to the formation of new bodies. I came to see this when I was thinking of my mother who very much believes that the Church should be unified as ONE church in Christ but her beliefs don’t agree with the denominations that she goes to and she starts going to another one. My mother doesn’t believe that there is a church that is all united in Christ (she has also never learned the truth about the Catholic church either ) but I think that all this breaking has caused confusion within Christianity, it has changed so much that even the Christians cannot identify who is a Christian anymore.

I believe the reason why converts and people in the process of converting (like myself) are so drawn to the faith is because even with all the breaking off within the Protestant movements the Catholic church has stayed together for almost 2000 years.

Those are just my thoughts though, I would love to hear the opinions of others

 

[jane_doe]

I think everyone would like to see the Body of Christ united. They would love to see everyone join in what they believe to be the Truth. However, what “George” and “Caleb” believe to the Truth may have unreconcilable differences. Now George and Caleb may share their light with the other (which is good), but it is possible that this won’t change anything. They could each remain convicted to what they believe to be True and reject other’s path.

It’s not like we can force George to accept what Caleb believes to be True… things have to be that person’s choice. You cannot fault someone for following path they firmly believe to be True.

 

[campeador]

I was reflecting today after mass about my family and my conversion and thinking about some things. I was reflecting on a particular passage in Romans today

And because of God’s gracious gift to me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you should. Instead, be modest in your thinking, and judge yourself according to the amount of faith that God has given you. We have many parts in the one body, and all these parts have different functions. In the same way, though we are many, we are one body in union with Christ, and we are all joined to each other as different parts of one body.(Romans 12:3-5, GNT)

From what I understand, we are many people joined together by our faith in Christ and we are the many parts joined together as one body with one belief in Christ. I grew up in several different protestant denominations, Apostolic, Baptist, Presbyterian, Pentecostal and it is clear to me that the pieces breaking away from the body of Christ have even been breaking away from each other. The Southern Baptists will not agree with the United Church and the Anglicans will not agree with the Seventh Day Adventists and it just goes on. Instead of one Universal Christian Church, we have one Catholic Church and 30,000+ denominations who stay that they have the answer.

St. Paul told us to stay together and instead there has been so many break offs which have lead to the formation of new bodies. I came to see this when I was thinking of my mother who very much believes that the Church should be unified as ONE church in Christ but her beliefs don’t agree with the denominations that she goes to and she starts going to another one. My mother doesn’t believe that there is a church that is all united in Christ (she has also never learned the truth about the Catholic church either ) but I think that all this breaking has caused confusion within Christianity, it has changed so much that even the Christians cannot identify who is a Christian anymore.

I believe the reason why converts and people in the process of converting (like myself) are so drawn to the faith is because even with all the breaking off within the Protestant movements the Catholic church has stayed together for almost 2000 years.

Those are just my thoughts though, I would love to hear the opinions of others

Pray for unity.

Morning Offering (also called Daily Offering):

O Jesus, through the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I offer you my prayers, works, joys and sufferings of this day in union with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass throughout the world. I offer them for all the intentions of Your Sacred Heart: the salvation of souls, reparation for sin, the reunion of all Christians. I offer them for the intentions of our bishops and of all the apostles of prayer, and in particular for those recommended by our Holy Father this month.
Amen.

 

[confusedgirl]

I think everyone would like to see the Body of Christ united. They would love to see everyone join in what they believe to be the Truth. However, what “George” and “Caleb” believe to the Truth may have unreconcilable differences. Now George and Caleb may share their light with the other (which is good), but it is possible that this won’t change anything. They could each remain convicted to what they believe to be True and reject other’s path.

It’s not like we can force George to accept what Caleb believes to be True… things have to be that person’s choice. You cannot fault someone for following path they firmly believe to be True.

I don’t fault anyone for having different beliefs. I was getting at more of the infighting in Christianity. I know a girl who comes from a Baptist family and doesn’t think Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, Mennonite, and so many other groups are Christian. I grew up going to several different churches and several different interpretations of scripture. I like having just one and I think a lot of people like having one. I don’t think Jesus wanted us to be fighting over who is right but instead he wants us to be united by our faith. Why has Christianity split so much? We are probably the most fragmented religion in the world.

 

[Rosebud77]

I don’t fault anyone for having different beliefs. I was getting at more of the infighting in Christianity. I know a girl who comes from a Baptist family and doesn’t think Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, Mennonite, and so many other groups are Christian. I grew up going to several different churches and several different interpretations of scripture. I like having just one and I think a lot of people like having one. I don’t think Jesus wanted us to be fighting over who is right but instead he wants us to be united by our faith.** Why has Christianity split so much?** We are probably the most fragmented religion in the world.

wish I knew. I really do.

I now never talk re religion unless and until I am asked. Rather live it, Live my faith in the way I care, honesty, integrity, giving .

 

[Lenten_ashes]

. Why has Christianity split so much? We are probably the most fragmented religion in the world.

PRIDE, Satan’s favorite sin.

And IMO Christianity is a much bigger target for him because it is the fullness of the truth.

But it all starts with pride and human rationalization. And if you make yourself your own authority, pride will naturally set in at some point even if you started out as a great and pious Christian.

They rationalized birth control and abortion in some cases.They are now rationalizing homosexuality and alternative lifestyles. The result? We in America, for the first time ever, don’t even produce enough children to maintain our current population. The only reason we do maintain it is thanks to immigration.

A house divided can not stand. Satan plants his seeds and seeks to divide the body of Christ, and he is doing a great job of it, unfortunately.

It’s very sad and I hated it as a protestant and still hate it as a Catholic. We could change the world so much if we united.

 

[jane_doe]

I don’t think Jesus wanted us to be fighting over who is right but instead he wants us to be united by our faith.

I 100% agree with your sentiment here- I also wish all people would come to the One Truth.

Why has Christianity split so much?

But in a person’s hearts of hearts people interpret/believe scripture differently hence the many splits.

We are probably the most fragmented religion in the world.

Actually the other major faiths in the world have equally major fragmentation too. We just don’t hear about it in Christian-dominated Western society because to our uninformed ideas all Muslims look like “just Muslins” and all Hindus like “just Hindus”, etc.

My other major sentiment on this issue is: yes we disagree with each other on faith. But that does to mean we have to fight or deride each other. Respect and Christ-like love should always be a guiding principle in how we treat our fellow men, regardless of how that person believes.

 

[confusedgirl]

wish I knew. I really do.

I now never talk re religion unless and until I am asked. Rather live it, Live my faith in the way I care, honesty, integrity, giving .

When I was a teenager it was hard to get my mother to even agree with me. It is funny because her and many protestants agree with Catholic doctrine. I fully support the idea of ecumenism and that we need to come back together but I don’t know how likely that.

 

[confusedgirl]

PRIDE, Satan’s favorite sin.

And IMO Christianity is a much bigger target for him because it is the fullness of the truth.

But it all starts with pride and human rationalization. And if you make yourself your own authority, pride will naturally set in at some point even if you started out as a great and pious Christian.

They rationalized birth control and abortion in some cases.They are now rationalizing homosexuality and alternative lifestyles. The result? We in America, for the first time ever, don’t even produce enough children to maintain our current population. The only reason we do maintain it is thanks to immigration.

A house divided can not stand. Satan plants his seeds and seeks to divide the body of Christ, and he is doing a great job of it, unfortunately.

It’s very sad and I hated it as a protestant and still hate it as a Catholic. We could change the world so much if we united.

I think that pride is what causes a big deal of the infighting. I think when I tell people I am converting they try to convince me out of it. I have been reading Rome Sweet Home and I wish I could just give that book to everyone who has yet to come back to the faith.

You’re absolutely right! A house divided cannot stand. I think what a lot of Christians don’t know is that they came from Catholicism. They don’t know the bible verses that they throw at us were put together by the church they hate.

 

[jane_doe]

When I was a teenager it was hard to get my mother to even agree with me. It is funny because her and many protestants agree with Catholic doctrine. I fully support the idea of ecumenism and that we need to come back together but I don’t know how likely that.

(Speaking my own non-Catholic thoughts here)

Ecumenism is the idea that a Catholic priest talks to the leaders of some other faith, and then those leaders inform their congregants that they are all going to abandon their previous beliefs and become Catholic. It is a horrible degrading concept rooted in pride. It is not Christian “unity”-- unity would imply that red and yellow to make orange. Rather, the goal of ecumenism is to eliminate yellow and only have red.

If a person (Catholic or whatever faith) wants to share the Light and Truth they have with another person, then they should go over and offer that Light and Truth to that person. That is how the Good Shepard works: seeking each sheep individually.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

I think that pride is what causes a big deal of the infighting. I think when I tell people I am converting they try to convince me out of it. I have been reading Rome Sweet Home and I wish I could just give that book to everyone who has yet to come back to the faith.

You’re absolutely right! A house divided cannot stand. I think what a lot of Christians don’t know is that they came from Catholicism. They don’t know the bible verses that they throw at us were put together by the church they hate.

Nailed it! The protestants i have encountered outside this forum have typically been extremely ignorant on the canon in which they hold so dear. Meaning the human process involved and the preservation that occurred for all those years.

At least Luther and Calvin acknowledged the Catholic Churches sacrifices made in order to preserve the scriptures. So much Catholic blood was shed to protect this book that modern day fundamentalists now use to attack her with.

I’ve had the same resistance from protestant family members. One, in particular, had the nerve to ask me how I could LEAVE Christianity. That is so outrageous that I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry.

 

[PJM]

I was reflecting today after mass about my family and my conversion and thinking about some things. I was reflecting on a particular passage in Romans today

And because of God’s gracious gift to me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you should. Instead, be modest in your thinking, and judge yourself according to the amount of faith that God has given you. We have many parts in the one body, and all these parts have different functions. In the same way, though we are many, we are one body in union with Christ, and we are all joined to each other as different parts of one body.(Romans 12:3-5, GNT)

From what I understand, we are many people joined together by our faith in Christ and we are the many parts joined together as one body with one belief in Christ. I grew up in several different protestant denominations, Apostolic, Baptist, Presbyterian, Pentecostal and it is clear to me that the pieces breaking away from the body of Christ have even been breaking away from each other. The Southern Baptists will not agree with the United Church and the Anglicans will not agree with the Seventh Day Adventists and it just goes on. Instead of one Universal Christian Church, we have one Catholic Church and 30,000+ denominations who stay that they have the answer.

St. Paul told us to stay together and instead there has been so many break offs which have lead to the formation of new bodies. I came to see this when I was thinking of my mother who very much believes that the Church should be unified as ONE church in Christ but her beliefs don’t agree with the denominations that she goes to and she starts going to another one. My mother doesn’t believe that there is a church that is all united in Christ (she has also never learned the truth about the Catholic church either ) but I think that all this breaking has caused confusion within Christianity, it has changed so much that even the Christians cannot identify who is a Christian anymore.

I believe the reason why converts and people in the process of converting (like myself) are so drawn to the faith is because even with all the breaking off within the Protestant movements the Catholic church has stayed together for almost 2000 years.

Those are just my thoughts though, I would love to hear the opinions of others

GREAT POST, and an astute observation.

One of the VERY significant causes for the large number of Protestant faiths/churches {it is impossible to separate any church from the set of faith-beliefs of that church], is failing to grasp the importance of SINGULAR TENSE words, guided by the Holy Spirit, and chosen by the NT authors.

Take for example these 3 passages

Mt 16:18-19
[18] And I say TO THEE: That thou art Peter; and upon THIS ROCK I will build MY CHURCH and the gates of hell shall not prevail against IT [19] And I will give TO THEE the keys =ALL IMPLIED] of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever YOUshalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever YOU shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

John 17:17-20
[17] Sanctify THEM IN [MY] TRUTH Thy word is truth. [18] As thou hast sent me into the world,I {GOD] HAVE ALSO SENT THEM into the world. [19] And FOR THEM do I sanctify myself,THAT THEY ALSO may be sanctified in truth. [20] And not for THEM only do I pray, but for THEM ALSO who through their word shall believe in me;

Mt 28:18-20
[18] And Jesus coming, spoke TO THEM, [THIS MEANS BOTH DIRECTLY AND EXCLUSIVELY] saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. [19] Going therefore, TEACH YOU all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have COMMANDED YOU and behold I am WITH YOU all days, even to the consummation of the world.

Can you see how this clarifies the teachings?

When the NT was authored [by the end of the st Century] and we take into consideration

1. Who was speaking
2. Who was specifically being addressed [understanding that it is most likely that the NT authors did not by specific intent, intend their messages, their teaching to be used thousands of yeas later [that is the work of the HS], as they were teaching locally, not so much globally.
3. The One Body by implication, meant One God. with One set of Faith beliefs and One Church.

So the differing roles of that One Body, are tied to just One set of Faith beliefs and through just “MY CHURCH”; singular.

everyone in THAT Church was to use their GOD given talents and gifts for building up [both increasing the numbers of New Catholics & aiding the Faith formation of ALL.]

And THIS still applies to taday and all times:thumbsup:

God Bless you
Patrick

 

[confusedgirl]

(Speaking my own non-Catholic thoughts here)

Ecumenism is the idea that a Catholic priest talks to the leaders of some other faith, and then those leaders inform their congregants that they are all going to abandon their previous beliefs and become Catholic. It is a horrible degrading concept rooted in pride. It is not Christian “unity”-- unity would imply that red and yellow to make orange. Rather, the goal of ecumenism is to eliminate yellow and only have red.

If a person (Catholic or whatever faith) wants to share the Light and Truth they have with another person, then they should go over and offer that Light and Truth to that person. That is how the Good Shepard works: seeking each sheep individually.

I don’t see it as eliminating other beliefs really I see it as more laying out all the beliefs on the table and coming to an agreement like the first council of Nicaea where the bishops and Constantine tried to reach a consensus on what our faith is. That is why we have the Vatican to say that because of A it causes C so you cannot have B.

I remember reading articles about how flocks of Anglicans and Lutherans were becoming Catholics because their churches decided to abandon the traditions that they love. While some people may not hold on to tradition as much to others it can be a big part of their faith.

Now I think you do have a point, by having everyone agree to be one church it does sort of go against freedom of religion which is why it will likely never happen. However without unity there will always be this divide of who is a christian and who isn’t or who is right and who is wrong.

 

[jane_doe]

I don’t see it as eliminating other beliefs really I see it as more laying out all the beliefs on the table and coming to an agreement like the first council of Nicaea where the bishops and Constantine tried to reach a consensus on what our faith is. That is why we have the Vatican to say that because of A it causes C so you cannot have B.

We just had a thread discussing such an idea. It has major issues, starting with the fact Christian groups acknowledge councils to be authoritative. If you ignore that fact, you then have the issue: who do you invite?

Then how do you get a traditional Catholic to acknowledge an SDA priest as having equal authority as the Pope? Such would require the Catholic to surrender an important part of their own belief system. And that’s all before we even actually get talking about theology…

 

[peter26]

Everyone wants Christian unity, but I wonder if it could ever really work. Let’s say every church decided tomorrow to unite. As the globally largest Christian body, let’s say they all become Catholic. What would then happen is that each group would try to make the Catholic Church more like their own church. The Orthodox would insist on infant communion and stricter fasting rules. The protestants would want shorter Eucharistic prayers to fit in a longer sermon. Anglicans would want an elected lay synod so they could discuss what they actually do want. And the Body of Christ woulds be just as divided as it is now.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Everyone wants Christian unity, but I wonder if it could ever really work. Let’s say every church decided tomorrow to unite. As the globally largest Christian body, let’s say they all become Catholic. What would then happen is that each group would try to make the Catholic Church more like their own church. The Orthodox would insist on infant communion and stricter fasting rules. The protestants would want shorter Eucharistic prayers to fit in a longer sermon. Anglicans would want an elected lay synod so they could discuss what they actually do want. And the Body of Christ woulds be just as divided as it is now.

Well, concessions were made for the Eastern Churches…and the Anglicans who came as a unit. We would just have many more rites in the Church, but all under the same umbrella.

 

[confusedgirl]

We just had a thread discussing such an idea. It has major issues, starting with the fact Christian groups acknowledge councils to be authoritative. If you ignore that fact, you then have the issue: who do you invite?

Then how do you get a traditional Catholic to acknowledge an SDA priest as having equal authority as the Pope? Such would require the Catholic to surrender an important part of their own belief system. And that’s all before we even actually get talking about theology…

I have to agree with you on that. I think that if this talk happened 500 years ago it would have been a different story but now I think its too far along for everyone to just come under the same banner.

I still think though that we should work to call everyone and be united as one but we don’t treat each other as equal Christian brothers and sisters. I know I don’t but that’s because there are so many groups that exist the beliefs can be either slightly different from what I believe or completely different from what I believe.

My cousin is Seventh Day Adventist and is trying to convert our entire family because he believes that if we aren’t part of that church we are doomed for hell. I have another cousin who is actually that cousin’s sister who is a Jehovah’s Witness. My mom is now a Presbyterian (I guess) and she thinks that my beliefs are completely wrong. I don’t think that is what Jesus wanted but unfortunately that is how it is.

 

[jane_doe]

I still think though that we should work to call everyone and be united as one but we don’t treat each other as equal Christian brothers and sisters. I know I don’t but that’s because there are so many groups that exist the beliefs can be either slightly different from what I believe or completely different from what I believe.

So why do you treat those who believe differently as unequal?

(Note: I’m not asking this to shame you or pick on you. I’m asking because if we are to change things, we first have to change ourselves. The first step to changing ourselves is understanding why we do the things we do. I actually admire your self-awareness in this regard).

 

[confusedgirl]

Everyone wants Christian unity, but I wonder if it could ever really work. Let’s say every church decided tomorrow to unite. As the globally largest Christian body, let’s say they all become Catholic. What would then happen is that each group would try to make the Catholic Church more like their own church. The Orthodox would insist on infant communion and stricter fasting rules. The protestants would want shorter Eucharistic prayers to fit in a longer sermon. Anglicans would want an elected lay synod so they could discuss what they actually do want. And the Body of Christ woulds be just as divided as it is now.

If we went back to what Jesus said when he established His Church:
***And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:18 *** I think to have one universal church like that I don’t think that everyone would be willing to just embrace Catholicism. I mean of course there are many exceptions that would but I will say the majority of the Protestants wouldn’t. We would have to rebuild Christianity from the ground up again and I know that I am many others would not be willing to abandon almost 2000 years of scripture and tradition. At the same time who is Christian and who isn’t is the question.

Christianity is the entire body right? So the protestant reformation happens and we lose the right leg and we have the Lutheran church. Then you just start cutting off more pieces and you get the Anglicans, the Calvinists, and the Anabaptists and from there you just continue to cut off smaller and smaller pieces. In fact we are still cutting off more pieces and it may never stop. Is it better to separate ourselves or try to unite?

 

[jane_doe]

If we went back to what Jesus said when he established His Church:
***And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:18 *** I think to have one universal church like that I don’t think that everyone would be willing to just embrace Catholicism. I mean of course there are many exceptions that would but I will say the majority of the Protestants wouldn’t. We would have to rebuild Christianity from the ground up again and I know that I am many others would not be willing to abandon almost 2000 years of scripture and tradition. At the same time who is Christian and who isn’t is the question.

Christianity is the entire body right? So the protestant reformation happens and we lose the right leg and we have the Lutheran church. Then you just start cutting off more pieces and you get the Anglicans, the Calvinists, and the Anabaptists and from there you just continue to cut off smaller and smaller pieces. In fact we are still cutting off more pieces and it may never stop. Is it better to separate ourselves or try to unite?

You’re assuming that Lutheran/Orthodox/Anglicans/Methodist/Baptists see the Church Jesus founded in this verse to be the Catholic Church. Many of them would disagree.