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Slaney
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The Trinity is in the Eucharist & Eucharist is in the Trinity …
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Joy2day
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Well the Eucharist is the reason we are catholic and not non-catholic.
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Slaney
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GKC
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SteveVH
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Yes, I am quite aware of that. What I think escapes many is the fact that the source and summit of the Catholic Faith is a Person, not a doctrine (The Trinity), and that Person is Jesus Christ whose true presence dwells in the Eucharist. Of course, it follows, that where the Son is, there also is the Father and the Holy Spirit.
Tis true, but it isn’t (usually) based on a difference in Eucharistic belief, but instead more on fellowship, and sometime on other doctrines. For example, as a lay member of the LCMS I would not receive in an ELCA with a woman pastor, though I would probably be invited. The LCMS practices what is called “close” communion, similar to closed communion, but with some local parish flexibility. The WELS has closed communion, and will only commune those of the WELS. The LCMS is has partner synods around the world whose members may receive.
Jon
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SteveVH
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That’s a great point, Jon. This doesn’t seem to tbe the case with the Anglicans, as far as I can see. There seems to be more disagreement concerning the manner in which Jesus is present.
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MaryT777
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Inviting any believer to Hoy Communion or having closed or close communion is a significant difference in practice regardless of the reason.
It appears to me that in the ELCA that it does not matter what the belief is because anyone with any belief about it is invited to Commune. I as a RC could commune and have been invited in the ELCA but I of course as a Catholic do not. It lends to the thought it doesn’t even matter what the persons receiving believes which I find odd at best.
even if we all agreed on Eucharistic teaching in the case
the Lutherans at least it would not be enough unity to Commune with each other.
True, and as a confessional Lutheran, we see it as a violation of scripture and the confessions. My point was that the beliefs regarding the real presence are, for the modt part, universal within Lutheranism.
I’ll let ELCA members comment on this, but I share your concern regarding it.
That’s why, generally, LCMS Lutherans will seek out the sacrament at an LCMS parish.
Not sure what you mean.
Jon
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MaryT777
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Perhaps Pastor Gary from the ELCA will join our conversation 
Mary.
Mary.
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gcnuss
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Well, I’ve been lurking and trying to decide what my contribution might be. When we celebrate Holy Communion in my congregation, we have in our bulletin the following statement (paraphrased a bit since I’m at home and don’t have the text in front of me): “We invite to the table all baptized Christians who share our belief that in Holy Communion we receive the body and blood of Christ under the forms of bread and wine.”Perhaps Pastor Gary from the ELCA will join our conversation
Mary.
We don’t have all that many visitors, other than visiting family members, so I’m pretty certain that virtually everyone who comes forward knows well what we believe. With the closing of the local Episcopal parish, we have a couple from there who join us regularly and I have no problems with them receiving communion.
I have to admit being uncomfortable with the idea of close or closed Communion. The invitation to the meal comes from Jesus, not from me, and I am not sure that I should be a gatekeeper checking IDs. Of course, as I mentioned above, that’s really not an issue in the congregation I serve.
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hn160
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At my church, on April 13, we are having our spring conference on Scripture and the Confessions. The theme is Our Lord’s Supper Then and Now and the speaker is Dr. Arthur Just from Ft. Wayne Seminary. He is the author of the book Heaven on Earth: The Gifts of Christ in the Divine Service, a very good read.
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SteveVH
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I’ve never seen a priest or an extraordinary minister of the Eucharist check I.D.'s either, but I think it is well known that one is not permitted to receive unless they have come into full communion with the Church. This is usually made very clear when we have weddings or funerals where there is likely to be many non-Catholics. We feel that there is an obligation to prevent one from receiving who does not understand or agree with the Catholic position and one who could very well be in grave sin which has not been absolved. To allow them to receive without recognizing the body and blood of the Lord would cause them to eat and drink judgment upon themselves. To leave it up to individual interpretation of what eating the body and drinking the blood of Christ means is a pretty risky business, not to mention that it is not possible to be in communion with those in which you are not in communion. To receive Christ in the Eucharist while rejecting his Church doesn’t really make sense.
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Isaiah45_9
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Pastor Gary,
Grace and Peace be with you.
While I empathize to a certain extent with what you said and knowing that I would truly love to share my Faith and Communion with all; I have to also be honest to myself.
Jesus shared the bread and body with His disciples only. It wasn’t an open invitation to partake of His Body and His Blood to anyone.
Further, as we read the practices of the Early Church we see that the Lord’s practice was shared among the Apostles and their disciples as well.
From St. Justin Martyr’s 1st Apology:
Closed Communion has been practiced since our Lord Christ Jesus. There was nobody else at the table other than His Apostles.
As St. Justin says above, no one would be allowed to partake of the Eucharist unless they meet the above.
We have been practicing this for almost 2,000 years. I don’t know or understand why in the last 500 years this most Holy Sacrament is being changed… St. Paul clearly warns about not doing/receiving it properly.
It is not us withholding the Sacrament, it is by our Lord’s Command and Teaching to the Apostles. We must be certain that we don’t bring damnation to other souls (and ourselves) by improperly handling His Body and His Blood.
When I can’t partake of the Sacrament, I faithfully pray:
“Lord, I am not worthy for You to come under my roof, but just say the word, and my soul shall be healed.”
Peace,
Jose
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benjohnson
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That’s a very wise observation - and I have to admit that I’m not too comfortable turning the Eucharist into a what seems to be a show of unity with any particular church, when in reality the Eucharist is about unity with our loving God.
I like the compromise LCMS ‘close’ communion - it’s strict enough that we don’t let people ‘eat and drink jundgment’ upon themselves, but lose enough to let friends and families that understand what is happening kneel next to each other at the table of the Lord.
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MaryT777
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Well stated. I have never understood why those who reject the Church would like to receive the Eucharist with us. It makes no sense at all.
Mary.
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gcnuss
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Thank you to all who responded to my post above. I think these discussions are good in that they allow us to understand one another better.
A few specific responses –
From MaryT777:
From SteveVH:
To all my brothers and sisters in the Catholic Church, while I don’t agree with the Church’s position I respect it and would never seek to go against it. I do pray for the day when we will be able to approach the Lord’s table together.
For my Lutheran brothers from the LC-MS, I let myself be guided by the local pastor when I have occasion to attend the Divine Service. That doesn’t happen often, but the last time I did, I approached the pastor before the service and identified myself and asked about their communion practice. He let me know that I was welcome to receive communion.
A few specific responses –
From MaryT777:
I have no objection to sharing the Eucharist with anyone who believes that in it the true body and blood of our Lord are received. I would have a problem dealing with those who come from a memorialist tradition.
From SteveVH:
Nor have I. That was just a figure of speech.
To both Mary and Steve, I would say that I have never rejected the Church. I remain in the tradition in which I was raised and have never felt called to leave it.
To all my brothers and sisters in the Catholic Church, while I don’t agree with the Church’s position I respect it and would never seek to go against it. I do pray for the day when we will be able to approach the Lord’s table together.
For my Lutheran brothers from the LC-MS, I let myself be guided by the local pastor when I have occasion to attend the Divine Service. That doesn’t happen often, but the last time I did, I approached the pastor before the service and identified myself and asked about their communion practice. He let me know that I was welcome to receive communion.
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MaryT777
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That’s interesting. It seemed as such fellowship issues (from what was posted by LCMSThank you to all who responded to my post above. I think these discussions are good in that they allow us to understand one another better.
A few specific responses –
From MaryT777:
I have no objection to sharing the Eucharist with anyone who believes that in it the true body and blood of our Lord are received. I would have a problem dealing with those who come from a memorialist tradition.
From SteveVH:
Nor have I. That was just a figure of speech.
To both Mary and Steve, I would say that I have never rejected the Church. I remain in the tradition in which I was raised and have never felt called to leave it.
To all my brothers and sisters in the Catholic Church, while I don’t agree with the Church’s position I respect it and would never seek to go against it. I do pray for the day when we will be able to approach the Lord’s table together.
For my Lutheran brothers from the LC-MS, I let myself be guided by the local pastor when I have occasion to attend the Divine Service. That doesn’t happen often, but the last time I did, I approached the pastor before the service and identified myself and asked about their communion practice. He let me know that I was welcome to receive communion.
bretheren) preculded an ELCA member from receiving in the LCMS. Apparently
it’s up to the local pastor then to determine who can receive the Sacrament. I would imagine if an ELCA Pastor can approach and be welcomed to receive then any ELCA member could approach and ask about communion practice and receive as well with permission from the Pastor.
That makes sense since it was my understanding from what was posted the belief understanding in the Sacrament between the synods IS in agreement from the Confessions.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Mary.
Hi Pastor,Thank you to all who responded to my post above. I think these discussions are good in that they allow us to understand one another better.
A few specific responses –
From MaryT777:
I have no objection to sharing the Eucharist with anyone who believes that in it the true body and blood of our Lord are received. I would have a problem dealing with those who come from a memorialist tradition.
From SteveVH:
Nor have I. That was just a figure of speech.
To both Mary and Steve, I would say that I have never rejected the Church. I remain in the tradition in which I was raised and have never felt called to leave it.
To all my brothers and sisters in the Catholic Church, while I don’t agree with the Church’s position I respect it and would never seek to go against it. I do pray for the day when we will be able to approach the Lord’s table together.
For my Lutheran brothers from the LC-MS, I let myself be guided by the local pastor when I have occasion to attend the Divine Service. That doesn’t happen often, but the last time I did, I approached the pastor before the service and identified myself and asked about their communion practice. He let me know that I was welcome to receive communion.
This was my experience when we first moved here. Our current parish is the only Lutheran one in the county (Baptist and Methodist country, you know
). We were ELCA when we arrive, and after we spoke to the pastor, he welcomed us to commune.I have always felt that, with a few exceptions - perhaps WELS, I would be welcome at the table at most Lutheran parishes, regardless of synod, worldwide.
Jon
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