Unity in the Eucharist?

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The Council of Trent also used the indefinite article “a” in its phrasing; e.g., “a true and proper sacrifice”; "a propitiatory sacrifice; “the Eucharist is also a sacrifice.” The words “offered perpetually” is an interesting idea that I don’t understand at all. I’ll have to read up on that later this evening, but my immediate thought is that I seem to recall that masses, at least some of them, can be held for a specific purpose or person, and that the purpose of the mass held on Tuesday might be different from the one held on Thursday. Therefore, these would seem to be separate sacrifices, held at different times and for different reasons. Each mass itself, then, is a true and proper sacrifice rather than a remembrance of Christ’s one sacrifice.

The article suggested that the 1662 was a good choice for adhering to the 39 Articles. Not that I have much choice in the matter; unless I choose to leave my church, the 1928 is what I’ll be using.
Ask the RCs if the Mass is an additional, repeated sacrifice.

Offered perpetually in Heaven, by the Son, before the Father. Recall that time and space are constructs, binding on humans as contingent creatures. In Heaven, the same Sacrifice is eternally (that is, without end, not temporally) offered. And we are present at that offering, as were the witnesses at Calvary, at the Mass.

Lots of flavors of Anglicans around.

GKC

Anglicanus-Catholicus
 
Ask the RCs if the Mass is an additional, repeated sacrifice.

Offered perpetually in Heaven, by the Son, before the Father. Recall that time and space are constructs, binding on humans as contingent creatures. In Heaven, the same Sacrifice is eternally (that is, without end, not temporally) offered. And we are present at that offering, as were the witnesses at Calvary, at the Mass.
Man, do you ever sound Catholic! 🙂
 
Ask the RCs if the Mass is an additional, repeated sacrifice.

Offered perpetually in Heaven, by the Son, before the Father. Recall that time and space are constructs, binding on humans as contingent creatures. In Heaven, the same Sacrifice is eternally (that is, without end, not temporally) offered. And we are present at that offering, as were the witnesses at Calvary, at the Mass.

Lots of flavors of Anglicans around.

GKC

Anglicanus-Catholicus
I already answered this for him. Guess my answer was not good enough? 🤷 😛
 
Ask the RCs if the Mass is an additional, repeated sacrifice.

Offered perpetually in Heaven, by the Son, before the Father. Recall that time and space are constructs, binding on humans as contingent creatures. In Heaven, the same Sacrifice is eternally (that is, without end, not temporally) offered. And we are present at that offering, as were the witnesses at Calvary, at the Mass.

Lots of flavors of Anglicans around.

GKC

Anglicanus-Catholicus
Even though Lutherans and Catholics have differing views regarding the sacrifice, this:
Eucharistic sacrifice
Catholic and Lutheran Christians together recognize that in the Eucharist Jesus Christ “is present as the crucified who died for our sins and rose again for our justification, as the once-for-all sacrifice for the sins of the world”.42 This sacrifice can be neither continued, nor repeated, nor replaced, nor complemented; but rather it can and should become effective ever anew in the midst of the congregation. There are different interpretations among us regarding the nature and extent of this effectiveness.
prounione.urbe.it/dia-int/l-rc/doc/e_l-rc_eucharist.html

One can read further starting with paragraph 57.

Jon
 
Quite possibly, but the critical difference I’m seeing is that Roman Catholics, as well as Orthodox Christians, see the Eucharist as a propitiatory sacrifice, while for Anglicans, at least some kinds of Anglicans, it is not.

*“The early English Reformers universally accepted the Eucharist was a sacrifice of thankful remembrance, but universally rejected the description “propitiatory sacrifice for the quick and the dead”, and thus deleted, as A.C. notes, all references to such sacrifice by the priest. . .
However, they affirmed that the Eucharist is a sacrifice of prayer, praise, and thanksgiving, and that it also sacramentally represents and commemorates the Sacrifice of the Cross. In this context we apply the benefits of that One Sacrifice by intercessory prayer to the whole Church, and by Communion to receivers of the Sacrament.” * anglicancatholic.org/critique-of-apostolicae-curae?class=greenlink

The Joint Affirmation of the Reformed Episcopal Church and the Anglican Province of America (2001) says:

*“It is also affirmed that the Eucharist, or Lord’s Supper, was instituted by Christ to be a true partaking of his Body and Blood, a sacrament of our spiritual nourishment and growth in him, and a pledge of our communion with him and with each other as members of his mystical body. There is but one sacrifice for sin–the “one oblation of [Christ] once offered” upon the Cross. This one offering is the perfect redemption, propitiation, and satisfaction for the sins of the whole world. Thus, the Eucharist cannot be said to be a propitiatory sacrifice to the God the Father.” *stbarnabasrec.org/beliefs.htm

On the other hand, the Council of Trent said:

“CANON III.–If any one saith, that the sacrifice of the mass is only a sacrifice of praise and of thanksgiving; or, that it is a bare commemoration of the sacrifice consummated on the cross, but not a propitiatory sacrifice; or, that it profits him only who receives; and that it ought not to be offered for the living and the dead for sins, pains, satisfactions, and other necessities; let him be anathema.” thecounciloftrent.com/ch22.htm

The topic makes interesting study, though, and I know I’ve just scratched the surface. One article I read points to problems with the 1928 Book of Common Prayer that my church uses :eek:

“The changes that the 1928 revision introduced into the American Prayer Book were far-reaching and even radical. A number of these alterations and additions in the Communion office brought the doctrine of the 1928 revision into conflict with the doctrine of the Articles. These changes had strong historical associations with the Medieval Catholic doctrines of transubstantiation, eucharistic sacrifice, and the sacerdotal character of the priesthood. The liturgical elements that they introduced into the Communion office are open to interpretation as teaching these doctrines.” anglicansablaze.blogspot.com/2011/07/lords-supper-sacrament-or-sacrifice.html

An interesting book mentioned in the article just quoted is The Thirty-Nine Articles: Their Place and Use Today by Packer and Beckwith. One user review on Amazon said, “Packer was most helpful in helping me get a better grasp of the three major traditions inside Anglicanism.”
Nice post…the anathemas seem to be less problematic now; at least as far as discussion purposes…
Trent pretty much sums of the matter on the Catholic view.
Mary.
 
I already answered this for him. Guess my answer was not good enough? 🤷 😛
Oh come on; I know all your answers are perfect!
Jr…we present the same sacrifice, which is eternal. Christ died once but we present the sacrifice to God. He told us to do that in memory of Him so we do. We are not killing Christ everytime Mass is held. 😉

Christ, in Heaven, is offering Himself each time at Mass as his eternal sacrifice.

catholic.com/video/do-catholics-re-sacrifice-christ
I have to admit that I didn’t watch the video. I enjoy reading, but videos are harder for me to process. I did view it just now, but what he doesn’t seem to address is that if the mass is a propitiatory sacrifice, then each mass is a distinct and separate propitiatory sacrificial act, notwithstanding that it uses the same lamb repeatedly in an unbloody manner. Or, as you put it, “Christ, in Heaven, is offering Himself each time at Mass as his eternal sacrifice.” For most Protestants, the Lord’s Supper is not propitiatory at all; that aspect was only true of Christ’s one-time sacrifice on the cross at Calvary, accomplished nearly 2000 years ago.
 
Oh come on; I know all your answers are perfect!

I have to admit that I didn’t watch the video. I enjoy reading, but videos are harder for me to process. I did view it just now, but what he doesn’t seem to address is that if the mass is a propitiatory sacrifice, then each mass is a distinct and separate propitiatory sacrificial act, notwithstanding that it uses the same lamb repeatedly in an unbloody manner. Or, as you put it, “Christ, in Heaven, is offering Himself each time at Mass as his eternal sacrifice.” For most Protestants, the Lord’s Supper is not propitiatory at all; that aspect was only true of Christ’s one-time sacrifice on the cross at Calvary, accomplished nearly 2000 years ago.
Yes, that’s a prime difference between a protestant and a Catholic Eucharistic theology.

But both agree that it is a one time Sacrifice. It is not, bound by time, though. It is eternal.

GKC
 
Ask the RCs if the Mass is an additional, repeated sacrifice.

Offered perpetually in Heaven, by the Son, before the Father. Recall that time and space are constructs, binding on humans as contingent creatures. In Heaven, the same Sacrifice is eternally (that is, without end, not temporally) offered. And we are present at that offering, as were the witnesses at Calvary, at the Mass.

Lots of flavors of Anglicans around.

GKC

Anglicanus-Catholicus
Man, do you ever sound Catholic! 🙂
I often do.

So do other Anglicans.

Others, not so much.

GKC
GKC,

I am one of those Anglicans who agree with you. 🙂

Anna
 
I didn’t think it would, but hoping JR reads it.
I think it points out differences similar to what I mentioned in other posts:
  1. According to Catholic teaching, in each Eucharist “a true and proper sacrifice is offered” through Christ. "This sacrifice is truly propitiatory and has this effect that we obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need’
  2. The Lutherans have feared that the understanding of the Eucharist as propitiatory sacrifice is contrary to the uniqueness and complete sufficiency of the sacrifice of the cross and calls in question Christ’s exclusive mediation of salvation . . . the Lutheran tradition avoids even today any mention of “sacrifice of the Mass”.
 
I think it points out differences similar to what I mentioned in other posts:
  1. According to Catholic teaching, in each Eucharist “a true and proper sacrifice is offered” through Christ. "This sacrifice is truly propitiatory and has this effect that we obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need’
  2. The Lutherans have feared that the understanding of the Eucharist as propitiatory sacrifice is contrary to the uniqueness and complete sufficiency of the sacrifice of the cross and calls in question Christ’s exclusive mediation of salvation . . . the Lutheran tradition avoids even today any mention of “sacrifice of the Mass”.
The sacrifice of the cross is the sacrifice of the Mass. None other.

GKC
 
Ask the RCs if the Mass is an additional, repeated sacrifice.

Offered perpetually in Heaven, by the Son, before the Father. Recall that time and space are constructs, binding on humans as contingent creatures. In Heaven, the same Sacrifice is eternally (that is, without end, not temporally) offered. And we are present at that offering, as were the witnesses at Calvary, at the Mass.

Lots of flavors of Anglicans around.

GKC

Anglicanus-Catholicus
Man, do you ever sound Catholic! 🙂
I often do.

So do other Anglicans.

Others, not so much.

GKC
GKC,

I am one of those Anglicans who agree with you. 🙂

Anna
Unity in the Eucharist.

GKC
GKC,
What unity are you talking about? Catholics deny we have any such unity with them. Evidently, God ignores the Eucharistic Prayers of our Priests. “Ask and you shall receive” does not apply to us.

Anna
 
GKC,
What unity are you talking about? Catholics deny we have any such unity with them. Evidently, God ignores the Eucharistic Prayers of our Priests. “Ask and you shall receive” does not apply to us.

Anna
I was speaking of the unity between you and me in this.

GKC
 
Oh come on; I know all your answers are perfect!
You said it not I 😛 :rotfl::rotfl:
I have to admit that I didn’t watch the video. I enjoy reading, but videos are harder for me to process. I did view it just now, but what he doesn’t seem to address is that if the mass is a propitiatory sacrifice, then each mass is a distinct and separate propitiatory sacrificial act, notwithstanding that it uses the same lamb repeatedly in an unbloody manner. Or, as you put it, “Christ, in Heaven, is offering Himself each time at Mass as his eternal sacrifice.” For most Protestants, the Lord’s Supper is not propitiatory at all; that aspect was only true of Christ’s one-time sacrifice on the cross at Calvary, accomplished nearly 2000 years ago.
I am the opposite lol. I enjoy watching something rather than reading it.

To keep for a large amount of copy and paste, I will just give you the link. It tells of the Eucharist as a sacrifice. newadvent.org/cathen/10006a.htm and newadvent.org/cathen/05584a.htm
 
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