Unity of Catholic Churches. Is there a Catholic family tree?

[Richard_White]

There is only ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, and APOSTOLIC Church, not many. We are all one in the Mystical Body of Christ, one Church and one people, in the Lord.

So, when you say, “Which Catholic Church do you belong to?,” the question is invalid, because there is only one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church, founded by Our Lord those many years ago by His ministry and Paschal Mystery.

We should all really be united in the one Roman Catholic Church, not separated foolishly in all of these Eastern sects and what-not. It’s almost as bad as the separation that we have with the protestants. I mean, the Byzantine Catholics are basically the same as us, they just don’t follow the Pope, right? I mean, that is just very foolish to be separate because you don’t accept the leadership of the Pope as the Vicar of Christ. I mean, he was installed by Our Lord with Saint Peter as the first one, it’s right there in the Bible.

I pray that all of our Christian brethren will be united in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church: the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[KP3243]

There is only ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, and APOSTOLIC Church, not many. We are all one in the Mystical Body of Christ, one Church and one people, in the Lord.

So, when you say, “Which Catholic Church do you belong to?,” the question is invalid, because there is only one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church, founded by Our Lord those many years ago by His ministry and Paschal Mystery.

We should all really be united in the one Roman Catholic Church, not separated foolishly in all of these Eastern sects and what-not. It’s almost as bad as the separation that we have with the protestants. I mean, the Byzantine Catholics are basically the same as us, they just don’t follow the Pope, right? I mean, that is just very foolish to be separate because you don’t accept the leadership of the Pope as the Vicar of Christ. I mean, he was installed by Our Lord with Saint Peter as the first one, it’s right there in the Bible.

I pray that all of our Christian brethren will be united in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church: the Roman Catholic Church.

I am pretty sure they are all in communion with the Holy Father the Eastern Churches are not part of the Orthodox Church who are not in communion with the Holy Father.

 

[TRH1292]

There is a lot of very very serious ignorance on this thread.

There is only ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, and APOSTOLIC Church, not many. We are all one in the Mystical Body of Christ, one Church and one people, in the Lord.

So, when you say, “Which Catholic Church do you belong to?,” the question is invalid, because there is only one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church, founded by Our Lord those many years ago by His ministry and Paschal Mystery.

We should all really be united in the one Roman Catholic Church, not separated foolishly in all of these Eastern sects and what-not. It’s almost as bad as the separation that we have with the protestants. I mean, the Byzantine Catholics are basically the same as us, they just don’t follow the Pope, right? I mean, that is just very foolish to be separate because you don’t accept the leadership of the Pope as the Vicar of Christ. I mean, he was installed by Our Lord with Saint Peter as the first one, it’s right there in the Bible.

I pray that all of our Christian brethren will be united in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church: the Roman Catholic Church.

Your post is completely wrong. The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church is the Catholic Church, led by the Pope. The Catholic Church consists of several particular Church’s, that is, Church’s with there own liturgical customs and traditions, but all united together. The largest Particular Church is the Roman Catholic Church. Sometimes called the Latin Catholic Church. There are others, such as the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, Maronite Catholic Church, and the others listed. Each particular Church has a Patriarch or leading bishop and is in full communion with The Pope, the Bishop of Rome.

The Eastern Catholic Church’s are not sects, they are full and equal parts of the Catholic Church, as the Catholic Church has stated numerous times. Such ignorance is not excusable in this day and age. You should read the document on the eastern Church’s by The Second Vatican Council or a Papal Encyclical on this title.

 

[TRH1292]

There is only ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, and APOSTOLIC Church, not many. We are all one in the Mystical Body of Christ, one Church and one people, in the Lord.

So, when you say, “Which Catholic Church do you belong to?,” the question is invalid, because there is only one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church, founded by Our Lord those many years ago by His ministry and Paschal Mystery.

We should all really be united in the one Roman Catholic Church, not separated foolishly in all of these Eastern sects and what-not. It’s almost as bad as the separation that we have with the protestants. I mean, the Byzantine Catholics are basically the same as us, they just don’t follow the Pope, right? I mean, that is just very foolish to be separate because you don’t accept the leadership of the Pope as the Vicar of Christ. I mean, he was installed by Our Lord with Saint Peter as the first one, it’s right there in the Bible.

I pray that all of our Christian brethren will be united in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church: the Roman Catholic Church.

There is One Holy Catholic Church. Roman is not a part of the description. The only sense that the Church as a whole is Roman is in the sense that it is led by the Bishop of Rome. The Question “Which Catholic Church are you apart of?”, is asking what Particular Church within the Catholic Church are you a member of. There are 24 such Church’s, if I am not mistaken about the number.

 

[Denho]

I can’t even begin to express the amount of things wrong with some of these replies…

 

[Ontheway]

There is only ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, and APOSTOLIC Church, not many. We are all one in the Mystical Body of Christ, one Church and one people, in the Lord.

So, when you say, “Which Catholic Church do you belong to?,” the question is invalid, because there is only one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church, founded by Our Lord those many years ago by His ministry and Paschal Mystery.

We should all really be united in the one Roman Catholic Church, not separated foolishly in all of these Eastern sects and what-not. It’s almost as bad as the separation that we have with the protestants. I mean, the Byzantine Catholics are basically the same as us, they just don’t follow the Pope, right? I mean, that is just very foolish to be separate because you don’t accept the leadership of the Pope as the Vicar of Christ. I mean, he was installed by Our Lord with Saint Peter as the first one, it’s right there in the Bible.

I pray that all of our Christian brethren will be united in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church: the Roman Catholic Church.

Thank you!

 

[Richard_White]

There is a lot of very very serious ignorance on this thread.

Your post is completely wrong. The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church is the Catholic Church, led by the Pope. The Catholic Church consists of several particular Church’s, that is, Church’s with there own liturgical customs and traditions, but all united together. The largest Particular Church is the Roman Catholic Church. Sometimes called the Latin Catholic Church. There are others, such as the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, Maronite Catholic Church, and the others listed. Each particular Church has a Patriarch or leading bishop and is in full communion with The Pope, the Bishop of Rome.

The Eastern Catholic Church’s are not sects, they are full and equal parts of the Catholic Church, as the Catholic Church has stated numerous times. Such ignorance is not excusable in this day and age. You should read the document on the eastern Church’s by The Second Vatican Council or a Papal Encyclical on this title.

I got a little mixed up with my terminology: I thought that all of the Eastern Catholics were the Orthodox, who are not in communion with the Pope and Rome, as stated above by KP3243. I’m not too well-versed with the Eastern stuff. I just know that in 1054, the Byzantine Rite separated from the Western Church in the Great Schism (correct me if I’m wrong with the terminology again!)

Very sorry, the Orthodox are the ones that I was referring to in terms of not recognizing the Pope and such. I am aware that the Chaldean, Syrian, and other Byzantine Rites are in communion with the Roman Rite, and I am not mocking them in any way.

I was just trying to show that they should not have all of these different names and everything: we are all one Catholic people under God. We are one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church: all of these different descriptions are just a little ridiculous. That doesn’t mean that each nation’s division of the Church can’t have their own traditions and customs unique to that nation and its history. However, I just think that every Christian on this earth should identify with the one true Faith: the Catholic Church, founded by Our Lord, without all of this "which Catholic Church do you belong to: there is only one, we are all in the same Church!

 

[TRH1292]

Thank you!

…Do you realize that this is the Eastern Catholic forum? Ya know, for the Eastern Catholic Church’s that are a full communion with the Bishop of Rome, and thus full and equal parts of the Catholic Church?

 

[TRH1292]

The Decree on the Catholic Churches Of The Eastern Rite from the Second Vatican Council can be found here: vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19641121_orientalium-ecclesiarum_en.html

Quoting from it:
" The Holy Catholic Church, which is the Mystical Body of Christ, is made up of the faithful who are organically united in the Holy Spirit by the same faith, the same sacraments and the same government and who, combining together into various groups which are held together by a hierarchy, form** separate Churches or Rites**. Between these there exists an admirable bond of union, such that the variety within the Church in no way harms its unity; rather it manifests it, for it is the mind of the Catholic Church that each individual Church or Rite should retain its traditions whole and entire and likewise that it should adapt its way of life to the different needs of time and place."

 

[JRS_88]

I can’t even begin to express the amount of things wrong with some of these replies…

You can say that again

 

[Peter_J]

There is only ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, and APOSTOLIC Church, not many. We are all one in the Mystical Body of Christ, one Church and one people, in the Lord.

So, when you say, “Which Catholic Church do you belong to?,” the question is invalid, because there is only one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church, founded by Our Lord those many years ago by His ministry and Paschal Mystery.

We should all really be united in the one Roman Catholic Church, not separated foolishly in all of these Eastern sects and what-not. It’s almost as bad as the separation that we have with the protestants. I mean, the Byzantine Catholics are basically the same as us, they just don’t follow the Pope, right? I mean, that is just very foolish to be separate because you don’t accept the leadership of the Pope as the Vicar of Christ. I mean, he was installed by Our Lord with Saint Peter as the first one, it’s right there in the Bible.

I pray that all of our Christian brethren will be united in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church: the Roman Catholic Church.

As you may be able to tell from other responses, your terminology is wrong. The Churches you are referring to are the Eastern Orthodox Church (also called “the Orthodox Catholic Church”). But more importantly, it seems to me that your manner of criticizing them would not convince any of them that they are wrong, any more than “Catholics are wrong because they worship Mary” convinces us that we are wrong.

Please stop posting this kind of stuff. This thread is for finding out how many posters here belong to each of the 23 churches that make up the Roman Communion.

 

[TRH1292]

I got a little mixed up with my terminology: I thought that all of the Eastern Catholics were the Orthodox, who are not in communion with the Pope and Rome, as stated above by KP3243. I’m not too well-versed with the Eastern stuff. I just know that in 1054, the Byzantine Rite separated from the Western Church in the Great Schism (correct me if I’m wrong with the terminology again!)

Very sorry, the Orthodox are the ones that I was referring to in terms of not recognizing the Pope and such. I am aware that the Chaldean, Syrian, and other Byzantine Rites are in communion with the Roman Rite, and I am not mocking them in any way.

I was just trying to show that they should not have all of these different names and everything: we are all one Catholic people under God. We are one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church: all of these different descriptions are just a little ridiculous. That doesn’t mean that each nation’s division of the Church can’t have their own traditions and customs unique to that nation and its history. However, I just think that every Christian on this earth should identify with the one true Faith: the Catholic Church, founded by Our Lord, without all of this "which Catholic Church do you belong to: there is only one, we are all in the same Church!

The Catholic Church is the collection of Church’s in communion with the Bishop of Rome. The Orthodox Church is an assorted group of particular Church’s that are in communion with each other, but not the Bishop of Rome, who is the Pope. Yes, there was a split in 1054 AD, but there are now many different particular Eastern Church’s that are in communion with Rome.

What I am trying to express to you, however, is that these different particular Church’s of the Catholic Church do in fact have name’s because they are different particular Churches. This is not something that the people on this forum made up, but is just a fact. The different particular Church’s enhance the unity of the Catholic Church and are all an equal part of it. I am apart of the Catholic Church. Within that, by cannon law, I am a member of the Roman Catholic Church. Not all Catholic’s are Roman Catholic’s, some are Maronite Catholic’s, other Coptic Catholic’s. Each have there own bishop’s and there own liturgical customs and traditions. Maronite Catholic’s, for instance, are not Roman Catholic’s are normally do not at all like to be called such.

 

[Peter_J]

I’m not too well-versed with the Eastern stuff.

I don’t criticize you for that. However, wouldn’t you say that someone who isn’t well-versed in something (Eastern Orthodoxy, for example) shouldn’t pontificate about it?

 

[Richard_White]

The Catholic Church is the collection of Church’s in communion with the Bishop of Rome. The Orthodox Church is an assorted group of particular Church’s that are in communion with each other, but not the Bishop of Rome, who is the Pope. Yes, there was a split in 1054 AD, but there are now many different particular Eastern Church’s that are in communion with Rome.

What I am trying to express to you, however, is that these different particular Church’s of the Catholic Church do in fact have name’s because they are different particular Churches. This is not something that the people on this forum made up, but is just a fact. The different particular Church’s enhance the unity of the Catholic Church and are all an equal part of it. I am apart of the Catholic Church. Within that, by cannon law, I am a member of the Roman Catholic Church. Not all Catholic’s are Roman Catholic’s, some are Maronite Catholic’s, other Coptic Catholic’s. Each have there own bishop’s and there own liturgical customs and traditions. Maronite Catholic’s, for instance, are not Roman Catholic’s are normally do not at all like to be called such.

This is really confusing, so I want to get it straight! Basically, all of these churches you are referring to are just the various international Rites of the Catholic Church. The reason that I got confused was because I learned of them to be Rites, not necessarily Churches, you know? So, the terminology made me think of the Orthodox, who are NOT in communion with Rome. Basically, then, these various Rites are just divisions of the Church, based on the traditions of a particular people/nation.

 

[Peter_J]

This is really confusing, so I want to get it straight! Basically, all of these churches you are referring to are just the various international Rites of the Catholic Church. The reason that I got confused was because I learned of them to be Rites, not necessarily Churches, you know?

Indeed, there are probably a very large number of Catholics who were taught to think of it that way – which is unfortunate, because that view is highly disrespectful not only toward Eastern Catholics but indirectly toward other Christians as well.

 

[ronyodish]

I was just trying to show that they should not have all of these different names and everything: we are all one Catholic people under God. We are one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church: all of these different descriptions are just a little ridiculous.

Richard White,

The different names which diversify us as Catholics have a very scriptural basis to them. If you recall in the book of Acts, when the Holy Spirit descended on the Apostles, there were a multitude of different people there, and they were being identified by their names:

======================
Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. And they were amazed and wondered, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? Par’thians and Medes and E’lamites and residents of Mesopota’mia, Judea and Cappado’cia, Pontus and Asia, Phryg’ia and Pamphyl’ia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyre’ne, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians, we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” (Acts 2:5-11).​

Also, remember how St. Paul writes his letters to the various churches, by identifying their names:

======================
“To all God’s beloved in Rome” (Rom. 1:7).
“To the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints who are in the whole of Acha’ia” (2 Cor. 1:1).
“To the churches of Galatia” (Gal. 1:2).
“To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are at Philip’pi, with the bishops and deacons” (Phil. 1:1).
“To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ at Colos’sae” (Col. 1:2).
“To the church of the Thessalo’nians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Thes. 1:1).​

These names and descriptions do not hinder our unity, rather, they manifest our catholicity: universality, wholeness, and completeness.

I, for example, originate from Mesopotamia, from the land between the two rivers (Tigris and Euphrates). I am more commonly identified as a Chaldean Catholic or Assyrian Catholic. By identifying as such, I am in no way rejecting the Catholic Church as “one, holy, catholic, and apostolic”. Rather, by identifying as Chaldean or Assyrian, I am merely emphasizing one of the marks of the Church, the catholic mark.

Even God the Holy Trinity is distinctively named: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Holy Church mirrors the Holy Trinity, and is likewise distinctively named by various names. And since the distinctions in God do not obliterate the unity of God, so likewise the distinctions in the Church do not obliterate the unity of the Church.

God bless,

Rony

 

[TRH1292]

This is really confusing, so I want to get it straight! Basically, all of these churches you are referring to are just the various international Rites of the Catholic Church. The reason that I got confused was because I learned of them to be Rites, not necessarily Churches, you know? So, the terminology made me think of the Orthodox, who are NOT in communion with Rome. Basically, then, these various Rites are just divisions of the Church, based on the traditions of a particular people/nation.

Think about it this way. Maybe this will help you understand the structure of the Catholic Church a bit better. Basically it works like this:

Level One: You have a local Parish. Although these are often called “Churches”, they are really a parish, or a part of a Diosecen Church.

Level Two: We have the Diocese. The Diocese is essentially the local Church, because a Church is present where a Bishop is. Local Churches, or Parishes, are just parts of a Diocese.

Level Three: We have a particular Church. A Particular Church is a group headed by a Patriarch or Head Bishop. It has a particular liturgical custom and way, and is made up of individual diocese. The Roman Catholic Church is the largest particular Church, but there are about 23 others, such as the Maronite Catholic Church, Melkite Catholic Church, Ukrainian Greek Byzantine Catholic Church, etc. The Pope is the Patriarch or leader of the Roman Catholic Church. He is not the Patriarch of the Maronite Church, or the Coptic Catholic Church.

Level Four: The Catholic Church at the universal level. The Pope is the head of the universal Church(Including all the Particular Churches), and has a predominate status as he defends and protects doctrines of faith and morals for the universal Church.

Now, many of you may think that is overly simplistic and a lot of qualifications added, but for the purpose of a simple explanation, I think it’s adequate.

And really, although the term “rite” is often used, Church is the proper name. A particular Church.

The main idea is, although Catholic may mean to be in communion with the Bishop of Rome, Catholic most certainly does not mean you are a Roman Catholic. And although Roman Catholic’s are in the majority now, about half the Church Fathers and many doctors of the Church are not Roman Catholic.

But, as you can see, this is really a very sensitive and particular issue.

 

[5Loaves]

This is really confusing, so I want to get it straight! Basically, all of these churches you are referring to are just the various international Rites of the Catholic Church. The reason that I got confused was because I learned of them to be Rites, not necessarily Churches, you know? So, the terminology made me think of the Orthodox, who are NOT in communion with Rome. Basically, then, these various Rites are just divisions of the Church, based on the traditions of a particular people/nation.

Please take the time to read what people have already said in response to this misinformation with which you are persisting which is not only incorrect but inherently deeply offensive to our Churches. I will add the Wikipedia article which is quite good, and the Q & A with the monks of Holy Resurrection Monastery

There are a number of threads on this topic of our Eastern Catholic Churches, what are we, here in the EC section.

 

[KP3243]

Take it easy on Richard, most American Catholics are not familiar with all of the Eastern Churches unless you know someone in one or have spent some time reading about them it isn’t going to be familiar to a lot of American Catholics and this post came up on the side of the forum none of us went looking into Eastern Catholicism forum we all just saw the heading Which Catholic Church do you belong to which is a catchy enough title for people to click on.

 

[Richard_White]

Hi everybody! I know that we have basically moved away from this thread, but I would like to say on more thing after I did some reading on the subject.

I understand that all of these different Churches are the various particular divisions of the Catholic Church and are fully in communion with Rome. They are all good and wholesome and based on the various local traditions and customs of each region in which they developed.

What makes it confusing is that, in the West, the Church grew out of only one early Patriarchatenin Rome. However, in the East, it grew out of four more in Antioch, Constantinople, Jerusalem, and Alexandria. During the Great Schism of 1054, these four patriarchates separated from Rome because they did jot like the supremacy of the Roman Patriarch: the Pope, the descendant of Saint Peter.

Then, throughout the ages of schsim, the Eastern Patriarchates further developed into the Churches that we have today as liated in the poll, about 23, right? They eventually came back into full communion with Rome and are now that way: Catholic, meremly according to their various traditions and customs based on region. I got it now!

However, I learned them in school to be Rites, so forgive me. I understand that they are Cheches, but in the sense that they are particular groupings of the Catholic people according to these various traditions. I personally still like to call them Rites, however, because the word Church makes it sound like a separate entity when in fact it obvioously isn’t. I don’t know what the big deal is in calling them Rites, but whatever.

I do value the Eastern traditions because many of the Church Fathers came from there, and a lot of good tradition came out of there, too, so don’t get me wrong.

I simply got confused by your usage of the word Church, because I never really used it like that before.