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Tomdstone
Guest
But do Catholics love Mary, the Mother of God, differently from the way Protestants do ?
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aidanbradypop
Guest
I believe by asking me to answer such a question would bring about disunity
J
JRKH
Guest
Agreed. We must keep agape at the core.
Ah - - Yes - - but never mind what the “Catholic” or the “protestant” understands it to mean… What what did Jesus understand “one” to mean when he prayed for us to be one as He and the Father are one? (John 17:20-21)
What understanding of “one” did the Holy Spirit wish to convey when he caused St Paul to write…
I appeal to you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment (1 Cor 1:10).
Surely united in Love…absolutely. And being united in love we would seek after Truth and root out error so that we have no dissensions and can be of one mind and of the same judgement.
But Christ does ask for this…The Holy Spirit asks for this…It is written in Scripture…
I do not ask that you seek the unity that I type about. I ask you to seek the unity that Christ - and the Holy Spirit “typed” about (causing it to be recorded in Scripture.
I know you will.
Peace
James
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aidanbradypop
Guest
I am apart of the Christian Church James. I guess the difference in views is that you believe the RCC to be that Church and I believe it is part of the whole Body of Christ. Just a different in beliefs. I respect your beliefs.
I have friend. I placed my faith and trust in Jesus Christ by way of Grace from God. I joined myself to the body of Christ. I struggle daily with staying there so prayers are always welcomed!
J
JRKH
Guest
Note that I have never said you were not…
I respect your beliefs too…but that was not the point of my post.
What follows here is not directed at you personally - - but rather is just a bit of musing - ok maybe venting a bit.
I find it interesting that in conversations like this one - about unity or division - protestants want to speak about how “united” they are. How they are “one in the body of Christ” and that their differences are really not that important.
Yet when someone like myself begins to probe the idea that the differences are not that important, or what it means and how it works in promoting the Gospel and what Scripture says about unity…there seems to be a tendency to shy away from the issue. To try to move off in another direction. It is something I have seen time and time again.
A common theme I have noticed in replies to my queries is a tendency to simply right off my notions as somehow “Catholic”…Yet I have presented no “Catholic” teaching - but only Scripture - and presented to people who hold Scripture as the most important source of guidance in their lives. But because I’m Catholic I suppose that somehow taints me and so my presentation of scripture and my questions are then somehow suspect and not worthy of serious answer.
Timmy would not answer my query about the two non Catholic Christians teaching different Gospels from each other. How can teaching different Gospels promote unity??? Timmy is silent.
Aidenbradypop - apparently - somehow assumed that my comments on what Scripture says about unity implied that I thought he wasn’t part of the Christian Church…I don’t know what I said that could have given that impression…
But on the subject of what SCRIPTURE says about unity…Aidenbradypop seems uninterested in pursuing that topic with me…why?
Oh well…enough venting…
Tomorrow is Good Friday. A deep and profound day that we all share…May all who have been reading and participating in this thread have a most holy, blessed and safe day.
Peace
James
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aidanbradypop
Guest
James you can call me Dustin. I have no problem addressing the issue in Scripture. I can give you may view and that of my fellowship.Note that I have never said you were not…
I respect your beliefs too…but that was not the point of my post.
What follows here is not directed at you personally - - but rather is just a bit of musing - ok maybe venting a bit.
I find it interesting that in conversations like this one - about unity or division - protestants want to speak about how “united” they are. How they are “one in the body of Christ” and that their differences are really not that important.
Yet when someone like myself begins to probe the idea that the differences are not that important, or what it means and how it works in promoting the Gospel and what Scripture says about unity…there seems to be a tendency to shy away from the issue. To try to move off in another direction. It is something I have seen time and time again.
A common theme I have noticed in replies to my queries is a tendency to simply right off my notions as somehow “Catholic”…Yet I have presented no “Catholic” teaching - but only Scripture - and presented to people who hold Scripture as the most important source of guidance in their lives. But because I’m Catholic I suppose that somehow taints me and so my presentation of scripture and my questions are then somehow suspect and not worthy of serious answer.
Timmy would not answer my query about the two non Catholic Christians teaching different Gospels from each other. How can teaching different Gospels promote unity??? Timmy is silent.
Aidenbradypop - apparently - somehow assumed that my comments on what Scripture says about unity implied that I thought he wasn’t part of the Christian Church…I don’t know what I said that could have given that impression…
But on the subject of what SCRIPTURE says about unity…Aidenbradypop seems uninterested in pursuing that topic with me…why?
Oh well…enough venting…
Tomorrow is Good Friday. A deep and profound day that we all share…May all who have been reading and participating in this thread have a most holy, blessed and safe day.
Peace
James
The New Testament is clear in its teaching that there is only one Church, which is described as the body of Christ (Eph. 1:22,23; 2:16; 4:4; Col. 1:13-21; Rom. 12:4,5; 1 Cor. 12:12-20). That one Church includes all who have accepted Jesus Christ as Savior and are serving Him as the Lord of their lives. It is also clear that Jesus’ desire for the Church is that all believers be one, even as He and the Father are one (John 17:11). The unity for which Jesus prayed comes obviously from His redemptive work on the cross (Eph. 2:16). It is a spiritual unity rather than an institutional unity.
The New Testament testifies to a spiritual unity that bothalready isand yet is to be pursued. Paul exhorts us to be “diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace (Eph. 4:3, NASB). Despite denominational labels or distinctives, all true believers in Christ are one in Him. Yet unity must be cultivated and promoted within the Church at large and within local congregations.
The same passages that declare the unity of the body of Christ also speak of the great diversity in God’s creation (Rom. 12:5; 1 Cor. 12:14-21; Eph. 4:4-7). So it should not surprise us if the Church contains groups that differ in theological interpretations and lifestyles. The Assemblies of God has always held that the divine inspiration of Scripture makes it the final judge in deciding matters of faith and practice (2 Tim. 3:16). While we may disagree with the interpretation of Scripture by other Christian groups on a variety of issues, we must heed Paul’s advice that we are not “to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls” (Rom. 14:4, NKJV). At the same time, we must not surrender our own convictions, remembering that “each of us will give an account of himself to God” (Rom. 14:12).
Hope this helps.
M
Mount_Carmel
Guest
I applaud your reflections about togetherness in charity, but it still doesn’t address that unity in faith, that I feel is part and parcel of Jesus’ preferred option.
1 Corinthians 1:10
I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment
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John 17:21
That they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
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aidanbradypop
Guest
The post above your’s is where I clarified my position on this.
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JRKH
Guest
Hi Dustin…Hope you are having a very blessed Good Friday.
Thank you for addressing the matters that I vented about…Much good here.
Just a couple of things I would like to address because I think it can help to clarify and actually enhance - not stand in opposition to - what you have shared so I am only quoting the one small bit of you fine post.
I know that this is a widely held view, and correct me if I’m wrong, but it often seems to come from a view of institutional unity being something “imposed”. However, I think it is something of a false dichotomy.
In my view - and this is supported by Scriptures such as Mt 18:15-18 and Acts 15 as well as other exhortations to unity - is that the institutional unity is something that grows out of spiritual unity and the desire to be ever closer to each other and to Christ.
As evidenced by Acts 15 there have been issues and disputes from the very beginning in the Body over questions that are very important either to the body as a whole or to a sizable part of the body. These issues have disturbed the peace of the Body. Scripture, both by instruction and example gives us the approved method of resolving these things. That approved method is of course the Church council to which we are to listen.
Connected with things like councils and the promulgation of councilior decisions and the desire of the various bishoprics to stay in touch and to share…comes processes and methodologies and infrastructure that evolves over time into an “institution”.
So you see - my point is that the institutional aspect of the Church is something that grows from the desire for unity and seeks to serve it and to preserve it. It is not something separate from it.
Peace
James
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aidanbradypop
Guest
Yes, you are correct in saying the spiritual leads to the institutional. A friend wad raised Catholic and I say that very loosely. He is “against” the institution while still trying to maintain the spiritual aspect of it. You and I know that by doing that, he is depleting his faith.
We agree there is a church. I see it as the Christian Church as a whole and you may see it a the RCC. Correct me if I am wrong please.
J
JRKH
Guest
So happy to read this. I know that many feel strongly about their particular communion as that institution and that they honestly believe that this fulfills the particulars of Mt 18:15-18 and of Acts 15. I applaud this but I think that they fail to carry this to it’s logical conclusion if we are to be “one” as scripture calls us to be.
Following it from small to large - -
Each individual Christian seeks unity with his fellow Christian. They form a local community - an Ekklesia
Each local Ekklesia seek unity with other local Ekklesia. These are become districts or regions or diocese. These seek union with those in other areas and so forth…right up to a point where there is a desire for universal unity.
Naturally there is great need for ways to communicate, to share, to discuss and debate, to meet in council and to promulgate the results of said councils. There is need for a way to gather, copy protect defend, disseminate and to teach the sum total of the gathered Truth from throughout the Ekklesia so that ALL have access to the same Truth founded on Christ.
That to me is what the logical result is of the desire for unity. I believe this is what the Holy Spirit desires.
Yes
I stand with the description given HERE in the Catechism.
There is a lot there…but basically it states that anyone who is validly baptized is a member of the Church.
I do see the Catholic Church as the one that is the most biblical in it’s organization, structure and teachings.
But honestly - if I may share - the main complaint I have against what I refer to as the protestant model is how - when the reformation occurred - the pillars of it, and the promoters of Sola Scriptura, failed utterly to follow Christ’s command - to come together in council and seek to resolve their differences. They held up Scripture as the ultimate authority and then failed to follow Scripture.
This single fact, makes the “protestant model” of many - doctrinally independent - traditions fundamentally flawed. I could never accept such a system…If I am to be Christian, I must be Catholic.
Peace
James
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cmodrmac
Guest
Unity will only happen when the Church universal is under great threat-
ISIS does not discriminate between Chaldean catholics and Anglicans and other Christians
Our heroic Vicar of Baghdad served all Christians-there was no questions on theological issues -they are all Christians with common beliefs but different practices-he served them all
cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/vicar-baghdad-isis-beheaded-4-christian-children-they-said-we-love
we all worship the same God-as long as power and money are involved there will be no Unity
ISIS does not discriminate between Chaldean catholics and Anglicans and other Christians
Our heroic Vicar of Baghdad served all Christians-there was no questions on theological issues -they are all Christians with common beliefs but different practices-he served them all
cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/vicar-baghdad-isis-beheaded-4-christian-children-they-said-we-love
we all worship the same God-as long as power and money are involved there will be no Unity
E
Eric_Hyom
Guest
Fear of God might be the better motivation for unity, rather than uniting because we fear ISIS
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