Universae Ecclesiae

[BenedictOblate]

Someone who attends only the Polish or Spanish OF Mass wouldn’t see any such connection. To that person, changing the English translation of the Latin OF wouldn’t matter at all.

Yes. I understand that. I don’t know if other translations are as loose as the former english translation. I’ve heard some translations are very good and your last sentence reinforces the point that getting the translations to align better is good for reverence and unity.

Getting the OF translations to more closely align is a step in the right direction.

 

[ProVobis]

1. New saints and certain of the new prefaces can and ought to be inserted into the 1962 Missal9, according to provisions which will be indicated subsequently.

I see this as most positive. It solidifies the EF and it gives the new Latin scholars, who will be needed to write these texts, some purpose in the older form.

 

[Brendan]

Yes, there’s no doubt about that. I mean, the Holy Father couldn’t have ordered that from next September onwards all seminaries are to offer extensive training in the Latin language and the Extraordinary Form…!

The problem is that such instruction in Latin has been a requirement in Canon Law since 1983.

Can. 249 The program of priestly formation is to provide that students not only are carefully taught their native language but also understand Latin well and have a suitable understanding of those foreign languages which seem necessary or useful for their formation or for the exercise of pastoral ministry.

And was repeated again by Pope Benedict in 2004 in Sacramentum Caritas

The Latin language

1. None of the above observations should cast doubt upon the importance of such large-scale liturgies. I am thinking here particularly of celebrations at international gatherings, which nowadays are held with greater frequency. The most should be made of these occasions. In order to express more clearly the unity and universality of the Church, I wish to endorse the proposal made by the Synod of Bishops, in harmony with the directives of the Second Vatican Council, (182) that, with the exception of the readings, the homily and the prayer of the faithful, it is fitting that such liturgies be celebrated in Latin. Similarly, the better-known prayers (183) of the Church’s tradition should be recited in Latin and, if possible, selections of Gregorian chant should be sung. Speaking more generally, I ask that future priests, from their time in the seminary, receive the preparation needed to understand and to celebrate Mass in Latin, and also to use Latin texts and execute Gregorian chant; nor should we forget that the faithful can be taught to recite the more common prayers in Latin, and also to sing parts of the liturgy to Gregorian chant. (184)

So Pope Benedict does not need to make any demands for seminaries to offer extensive Latin. Such demands have existed for years.

I personally know three priest who have been recently Ordained from Sacred Heart Seminary here in Detroit who learned to celebrate the Mass in the Extraordinary Form.

They all were trained in the seminary in the celebration of the Ordinanry Form in Latin ( as the Pope had asked for). To celebrate the Mass in the EF, they attended the workshop offered by the priests of St. John Cantius in Chicago. They availed themselves of the opportunity.

My own pastor ( diocesan) also attended the St. John Cantius workshop shortly after S.P. was released and then added an EF Mass to the parish schedule.

 

[ConstantineTG]

1. The Roman Missal promulgated by Pope Paul VI and the last edition prepared under Pope John XXIII, are two forms of the Roman Liturgy, defined respectively as ordinaria and extraordinaria: they are two usages of the one Roman Rite, one alongside the other. Both are the expression of the same lex orandi of the Church. On account of its venerable and ancient use, the forma extraordinaria is to be maintained with appropriate honor.

So people should stop using the term Novus Ordo now. Its as clear as day.

 

[jam070406]

The problem is that such instruction in Latin has been a requirement in Canon Law since 1983.

And was repeated again by Pope Benedict in 2004 in Sacramentum Caritas

So Pope Benedict does not need to make any demands for seminaries to offer extensive Latin. Such demands have existed for years.

I personally know three priest who have been recently Ordained from Sacred Heart Seminary here in Detroit who learned to celebrate the Mass in the Extraordinary Form.

They all were trained in the seminary in the celebration of the Ordinanry Form in Latin ( as the Pope had asked for). To celebrate the Mass in the EF, they attended the workshop offered by the priests of St. John Cantius in Chicago. They availed themselves of the opportunity.

My own pastor ( diocesan) also attended the St. John Cantius workshop shortly after S.P. was released and then added an EF Mass to the parish schedule.

Fr. Ben is awesome!

 

[malphono]

One item of interest that I neglected to note in my earlier post was this paragraph:

1. The use of the liturgical books proper to the Religious Orders which were in effect in 1962 is permitted.

It will be interesting (to me. at least) to see how that particular provision is applied.

 

[Lormar]

1. Furthermore, by virtue of its character of special law, within its own area, the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum derogates from those provisions of law, connected with the sacred Rites, promulgated from 1962 onwards and incompatible with the rubrics of the liturgical books in effect in 1962.

Wonderful!

 

[bkovacs]

So people should stop using the term Novus Ordo now. Its as clear as day.

And the use of the term Taliban Catholics should also be stopped as well.

 

[At_Trent]

One item of interest that I neglected to note in my earlier post was this paragraph:

It will be interesting (to me. at least) to see how that particular provision is applied.

That pertains to Mendicant Rites doesn’t it ?

 

[bkovacs]

My question is whether this document also applies to the Ambrosian Rite as well as Ordinariate parishes that may want to use the Sarum Rite in the future.

 

[malphono]

That pertains to Mendicant Rites doesn’t it ?

Yes, the Dominican and Carmelite, as well as the monastic ones (Carthusian and Cistercian).

In case anyone is interested, there is an interesting commentary on the entire instruction at NLM

 

[malphono]

My question is whether this document also applies to the Ambrosian Rite as well as Ordinariate parishes that may want to use the Sarum Rite in the future.

My take on the Ambrosian (and the other living territorial Rites) is as I said in an earlier [post=7865775]post[/post]: this Instruction doesn’t specifically mention them, but there has been clarification from the PCED in the past that the provision of Summorum Pontificum do apply there as well. So, absent revocation of that clarification, one has to assume that they remain in force. We’ll have to wait and see if anything further comes from PCED on it.

The Sarum Rite is a totally different ball of wax. Since it had fallen out of continuous usage by the time of Trent, it was officially suppressed. Yes, it’s been used in recent times,but that may only be done by special and particular indult. For anything more on it, I suppose we’ll have to wait for the final form(s) of the Anglican Use, once details have been sorted out.

 

[TrueLight]

So people should stop using the term Novus Ordo now. Its as clear as day.

I personally cannot stand the term “extraordinary” Tridentine or TLM is so much easier on the tongue (pun intended).

Please excuse my ignorance, but what new provisions were made in the Universae Ecclesiae that did not exist in Summorum Pontificum?

 

[archangel04]

From the post and blogs I’ve read I think this is great news! I especially like the fact that the option to add new saints and preface to the 1962 missal is available, this shows organic growth is now continuing for the EF. Who else here thinks this pope is amazing and brilliant man? I sure do!

 

[Denise1957]

1. The faithful who ask for the celebration of the forma extraordinaria must not in any way support or belong to groups which show themselves to be against the validity or legitimacy of the Holy Mass or the Sacraments celebrated in the forma ordinaria or against the Roman Pontiff as the Supreme Pastor of the Universal Church.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I personally cannot stand the term “extraordinary” Tridentine or TLM is so much easier on the tongue (pun intended).

Please excuse my ignorance, but what new provisions were made in the Universae Ecclesiae that did not exist in Summorum Pontificum?

You are correct that there is nothing new here. The language is just more direct now, “defined respectively”, which means that is how we are to call them.

 

[TrueLight]

You are correct that there is nothing new here. The language is just more direct now, “defined respectively”, which means that is how we are to call them.

Oh I see. Do you foresee any changes because of this new direct language?

 

[laszlo]

However, my fear would be that the use of words such as “should” or “are asked to” will not be strong enough encouragement to seminary authorities to provide for the teaching of the E.F. down the line. We’ve seen what happened when the clergy were told that Gregorian chant, for example, “should” be given pride of place - far from encouraging the use of Gregorian chant, many saw it as a carte-blanche to suppress it. So let’s hope that our bishops and seminary rectors interpret the word “should” in the way that Pope Benedict does!

Let be realistic. In the fifties in Hungary there were 5 seminaries. Only in one was intensive Latin education. In the rest the language of the teaching was Hungarian, only there was 2 semester Latin and the requirement to memorize some pars of the Mass.

This was in the time when the required language for the Breviary was Latin. Those priest who did not attended the minor seminaries read the prayer w/o understanding. One of the reasons why the vernacular was welcomed.

The TLM can be celebrated w/o deep knowledge of Latin, and fully learned during a 4 days seminar. Over 2/3 of the text is the same or very similar as in the new form.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Oh I see. Do you foresee any changes because of this new direct language?

Well, people are stubborn. I’m just glad there’s something definitive and direct. Because most of the time they will argue that nothing clearly says its to be called “Ordinary Form”. Now there is and they clearly can be reminded that they are just being stubborn.

 

[laszlo]

I don’t see anything about English specifically in the document. If anything, it restricts the vernacular-only readings to the Low Mass.

1. As foreseen by article 6 of the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum, the readings of the Holy Mass of the Missal of 1962 can be proclaimed either solely in the Latin language, or in Latin followed by the vernacular or**, in Low Masses, solely in the vernacular.**