Universae Ecclesiae

[JReducation]

A support group for Ecclesia Dei lists them on thie website as belonging to Ecclesia Dei. It’s not absolute proof, though. I’m fairly certain that the Canons Regular are in full communion with Rome. I saw one of their priests interviewed, I think it was on EWTN. They concelebrate, I believe. Both the OF and the EF.

Support group for Ecclesia Dei:

ecclesiadei.org/Resources.htm

I saw the same site. We have to understand, that because a group is under the jurisdiction of Ecclesia Dei does not mean that they are in an irregular situation as is the SSPX. There are groups in special categories that are not having any problems. For example, Opus Dei is a Personal Prelature of the Holy Father. They are not in trouble nor have they ever been in trouble.

Dominicans and Franciscans are still under Cardinal Protectors. They are not and have never been in trouble.

I’m not sure how to interpret this information. In any case, it’s not important. The important thing is that the Canons are in full communion with the Church and the local bishop.

It seems to me this is unnecessarily complicated and presents unneeded hurdles. This same issue came up a week or so ago in the other (now closed) [thread=560975]thread[/thread] on this same topic. Rather than repeat myself here, I’ll simply link to the [post=7862282]post[/post] there.

As I said, you can offer these courses outside of the degree program and avoid these inconveniences. If you want to include them in the degree program, then you have to go through these hoops. It’s a matter of how the bishops want to do it for their seminarians and how the Major Superiors of men want to do it for their religious. Ultimately, they call the shots. What is important here is that this is not a mandatory program of studies. What is mandatory is that it be made available.

When it comes to religious, Major superiors don’t have to make it available in their houses of formation. If there is a school in the area that already has this, they can offer to send their religious to said school, if the religious want to go. What the major superiors may never do is command that the religious attend these courses, unless they are religious communities founded with the Extraordinary Form as an integral part of their charism. That’s a horse of a different color. If it’s part of the charism of your community, you joined that community; therefore, you have to do this.

The whole thing about Latin is also misunderstood by many people. Many major superiors of men are exempt from requiring the study of Latin, because it is not part of the charism of their community. We have to remember that there are many things in Canon Law to which there are also many exemptions given in private. Canon Law cannot address the more than 1,000 religious institutes of men and almost the same number of dioceses and the more than 300 societies of apostolic life of men. Canon Law, in the section on religious, will always defer to the Proper Law, meaning the law of the institute, which has to be approved by the Holy See or at the very least, the local bishop, if the institute is of diocesan right. The Superiors General and their councils apply for dispensations from the law and these are granted when the dispensation is because the law requires something that is outside of the charism and mission of the religious institute or because it is difficult to execute. Canon Law does not exist to make people’s lives impossible, but to guide.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[malphono]

Ah well … After all this time, I should have known better than to have posted [post=7889638]earlier[/post] in this thread. :banghead: But … lesson learned. Better late than never, I guess.

 

[Brendan]

Two things.

First, the bishop picks the seminary and program that his candidate go to. Seimarians are not free agents. You can not be a seminarian without sponsorship of a diocese or religious institute. Those who attend seminaries for the M.Div. that are not so sponsored are not seminarians…

I fully understand that. My point was more along the lines of that there is no need to add the Latin courses to the required coursework for the M.Div (especially if civil approval is needed).

The can be accomplished as other coursework. The accrediting organization or civil authority approves the academic program required for the M.Div and the bishop adds in any additional coursework requried to comply with Canon Law and the various papal requests.

 

[JReducation]

The one suggestion that I would make here is that those people who wish to have the Extraordinary Form in their community approach bishops and religious superiors with tact. If you approach a bishop or a major superior of men saying, “You have to provide this in your formation program, because the pope said so,” the reaction may be very negative.

Bishops are aware that they have to provide the opportunity. Religious superiors are aware that they can take advantage of these opportunities and should do so, if possible.

That being said, if we come across as if we had the right to make demands on those in authority over dioceses or religious life, that can trigger a power struggle and no one ever wins in power struggles.

Back in the 1970s I saw a bishop engage in such a struggle with a religious congregation (not mine) that shall remain anonymous. What he wanted was good. But he made a fatal mistake. He demanded of the Major Superior. Well, guess what? Major Superiors of men are also Ordinaries. They don’t even have to be priests. If they have priests under them, they are in charge, not the bishop. The bishop has to communicate with the the superior to please have his men do this or that or to stop this or that. This bishop did not present a concern to the major superior, he presented a demand.

The result was catastrophic. The Major Superior gave him two-weeks notice. They were leaving three parishes, four schools and one retreat house;. They left the diocese. The bishop appealed to Rome and Rome defended the religious superior because it’s a congregation of Pontifical Right. It has the right to ask for the Pope’s protection.

In the late 1980s, I was at another place where the Major Superior of a religious community of women vacated the convent over night. In the morning, there was no one to open the school.

I was stationed at a school where the sisters and the friars disagreed. The next day, there were no sisters to run the school. They walked.

When people get into power struggles, every loses. Those who walk, think they have won, but they lose. That’s not what you really want to do. You really want to serve the people. The bishop or the superior also lose, because they are caught in a situation where they have to save face. The lay faithful lose, because they can’t twist a bishop’s arm or that of a religious superior.

In discussing these things and in make these requests, tact and patience are the secret to success. Bishops and religious superiors welcome people who understand what they’re up against and who offer good ideas rather than cite regulations to them. The know the regulations. However, the person who made the regulations may not know the situation in a particular diocese or religious community. There has to be an understanding of the regulation and of the situation that the person in authority has to face… If at all possible, it would be great if the faithful could bring some clever ideas to the table, rather than demands or expectations. People don’t respond well to being hit over the head with rules. They respond very well to requests that are reasonable with reasonable offers to help.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[paulmary]

Speaking of the latin mass, there is a cheap missal over at ebay: cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270750494594
You should look over