Universal health insurance

[pathia]

People who cannot afford MSAs can apply for assistance, based on their most recent tax return, and would receive proportionate assistance – not an automatic 100%. They would get help with insurance premiums and with each payment from their MSA – so they would always have the chance to save something by bargaining and not over-consuming.

Young people would especially benefit from this – since they could build up substantial savings in their healthiest years.

That assumes the insurance companies will actually do anything for you. As I have stated before, I have insurance, they refuse to cover more than half of my medical expenses, despite my doctors stating they are necessary for my health.

This system would work great, but what is your solution to people who simply can’t get coverage, period? There are things that blacklist people more or less entirely from insurance. I have more than one of these conditions. The only insurance I am able to get is the plans that the state governments force insurance companies to provide, and those are very expensive, and offer little to no coverage for me.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Nope.

My GP said “You need to meet with an endocrinologist. Here’s a list of them in the state, make an appointment and let me know which one you see.”

And I called them all, and then the waiting began.

So why was there a wait?

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Now that hurt – coming from someone who long ago admitted he knew nothing of economics.

Please provide a quote of where I said that or recall your post. Otherwise, I will be truthful in calling you a liar from here on out.

 

[Oscarthecat]

I know I am not a moderator, or the OP, but with all due respect to the few who are dominating this thread- it seems like there is so much banter going regarding personal circumstances and ad hominem criticisms that the actual topic is being obscured.

Several of the ongoing side conversations, although interesting, might be best followed in their own threads, or as private messages.

 

[vern_humphrey]

That assumes the insurance companies will actually do anything for you. As I have stated before, I have insurance, they refuse to cover more than half of my medical expenses, despite my doctors stating they are necessary for my health.

I see you didn’t read the post.

You pay with your swipe card. The insurance company has nothing to do with it. Only when you exceed the deductable does the insurance company get involved.

This system would work great, but what is your solution to people who simply can’t get coverage, period? There are things that blacklist people more or less entirely from insurance. I have more than one of these conditions. The only insurance I am able to get is the plans that the state governments force insurance companies to provide, and those are very expensive, and offer little to no coverage for me.

I understand – which illustrates the shortcomings of “the government should force them” theory.

 

[rtconstant]

You say they have better health care. But under indentical circumstances, that isn’t so. Also, there’s a lot of juggling the figures – for example, obesity in America is cited. How will a government health care system cure obesity?

Yeah, me and pretty much every reputable national or international health care institution.

That assumes we will get better healthcare. What if we get a healthcare system that is as expensive and ineffective as our Public School System?

Well, again this really has nothing to do with UHC being a good idea this has to do with your feelings that the US government is to corrupt and innept to do what other industrailized nations have done. That could be true but I hope you’re wrong.

Ah, the old, “If you don’t want it, you don’t have to have it – but you still have to pay for it” ploy.

No it would be the old you get the benefit from this just like everyone else but you can purchase additional coverage if want. It isn’t a ploy no one is hiding this are thinking they’re “getting one over” on someone else. I purchase additional insurance on top of my current work provided insurance. I’d personally feel pretty good about paying a little extra to help those that aren’t in as good a financial situation as myself.

Watch for my next post.

Thanks.

Under MSAs, everyone could go to any specialist they wanted.

Sweet, that’s good. Would we still have to go through GP’s?

Pardon me!?!?

I live in a remote county in Arkansas. Arkansas is 48th in the nation in per-capita income, and this congressional district – with 27 counties – has only four counties that can match the state for per capita income.

And 19 of the remaining counties – including this one – are falling farther and farther behind the state.

Yet somehow, we manage to have good health care. Go figure.

Don’t see what any of that has to do with what I said to you but cool. Again its awesome that you have good health coverage in your area. You are blessed in that, be glad for it.

For one thing, the Clinton administration paid medical schools not to graduate so many doctors. They figured less is better.

Not surprising, Clinton couldn’t change his underware in the morning unless some lobbyist, polster or Chinese official told him what color they should be.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Please provide a quote of where I said that or recall your post. Otherwise, I will be truthful in calling you a liar from here on out.

You flat out deny you admitted you know nothing about economics? I want a firm denial from you.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I know I am not a moderator, or the OP, but with all due respect to the few who are dominating this thread- it seems like there is so much banter going regarding personal circumstances and ad hominem criticisms that the actual topic is being obscured.

Several of the ongoing side conversations, although interesting, might be best followed in their own threads, or as private messages.

Applause, applause!

Few people want to debate the issue. They want to attack other people.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

You flat out deny you admitted you know nothing about economics? I want a firm denial from you.

You made the charge, you are obligated to prove it. Put up or shut up.

 

[vern_humphrey]

You made the charge, you are obligated to prove it. Put up or shut up.

I will – as soon as you issue a flat denial.

Now enough of this childishness.

 

[onetimeposter]

Vern always gets the last word!

 

[LCMS_No_More]

More like he’s setting up a straw man and I refuse to play his stupid games.

 

[vern_humphrey]

More like he’s setting up a straw man and I refuse to play his stupid games.

 

[pathia]

So why was there a wait?

They are all booked out that much. I called, the administrative assistants/nurses told me when they called that he (or she) was “Booked out until so and so date”.

They simply didn’t have time for a non-emergency appointment. The keep large blocks of their day free for being on call for emergency meetings with customers, their allotment of time for non-immediate was really low. I wasn’t going to keel over instantly, so I had to wait.

 

[mary_bobo]

…bang on. Debating with Vern is a waste of energy…he will never concede defeat and he has soundly lost this debate.

What is one to do?

I suppose just tell him what he wants to hear, that he is right, that the uninsured can get excellent, quality and consistent care in the USA.

Come on, kids. Play nice. Each of us is expressing an OPINION and one is as valuable as another. No need to demean.

 

[pathia]

I see you didn’t read the post.

You pay with your swipe card. The insurance company has nothing to do with it. Only when you exceed the deductable does the insurance company get involved.

I understand – which illustrates the shortcomings of “the government should force them” theory.

You didn’t answer my concern. My concern is what happens when the insurance company refuses to cover anything that happens to me, which is a current problem, and I see nothing that will stop it from continuing under MSA.

How do I get insurance companies to cover my illnesses when they won’t? I am just one person, I cannot force them to do anything, and all my money is tied up paying their bills, I cannot find a lawyer to take my case, I’ve contacted quite a few, none will work pro-bono on this.

 

[Oscarthecat]

They are all booked out that much. I called, the administrative assistants/nurses told me when they called that he (or she) was “Booked out until so and so date”.

They simply didn’t have time for a non-emergency appointment. The keep large blocks of their day free for being on call for emergency meetings with customers, their allotment of time for non-immediate was really low. I wasn’t going to keel over instantly, so I had to wait.

I agree that waiting for necessary care is difficult, but what exactly does this have to do with the debate between private medical care and government run medical care?

 

[pathia]

I agree that waiting for necessary care is a bad thing, but what exactly does this have to do with the debate between private medical care and government run medical care?

They state that there is no waiting under private medical care and that under government run it will spiral out of control into hideously long waits.

It certainly has not been the case in my experience. I have had plenty of waits for care under this system, extremely long ones in fact. That is to say, the claim that our private care system works faster is not a 100% fact.

 

[vern_humphrey]

They are all booked out that much. I called, the administrative assistants/nurses told me when they called that he (or she) was “Booked out until so and so date”.

They simply didn’t have time for a non-emergency appointment. The keep large blocks of their day free for being on call for emergency meetings with customers, their allotment of time for non-immediate was really low. I wasn’t going to keel over instantly, so I had to wait.

So the problem is not lack of insurance, but simply not enough doctors in that specialty.

 

[rtconstant]

MSAs

The fundamental principle behind Medical Savings Accounts (MSA) is that you buy cheap, high-deductible catastrophic health insurance, and then save an amount each year equal to the deductible with tax-free dollars. You use that money to cover any medical expenses up to the deductible. You roll any unused dollars over at the end of each year into your IRA. The institution holding the MSA would issue a credit card, and this card would be used to pay for health care. This would have several important impacts:

1. Paperwork makes up from one-third (in private health plans) to two-thirds (in government programs) of the total cost of health care. The use of this credit card approach would dramatically reduce the paperwork and result in lower costs.
2. The current systems of paying for health care have long delays built in. The pay-on-the-spot approach would allow care providers to further lower costs.
3. MSAs provide an incentive for people to bargain for health care – when people spend their own money (and know they can keep all they save), they have an incentive to bargain for better rates.
4. MSAs provide an incentive to avoid over-consumption of medical care.

People who cannot afford MSAs can apply for assistance, based on their most recent tax return, and would receive proportionate assistance – not an automatic 100%. They would get help with insurance premiums and with each payment from their MSA – so they would always have the chance to save something by bargaining and not over-consuming.

Young people would especially benefit from this – since they could build up substantial savings in their healthiest years.

Thanks for posting. While some of the points you make here I would agree with I’d have some major concerns about this. While I agree that administrative costs would be lowered, and that it would be a benefit to those in urban areas or areas with a good selection of docs.

However, the first thing that I see is that this is a program that primarily caters to the healthy. While it no doubt would cause people to be more particular in their healthcare choices (which is good) it seems like it would also tend to encourage people to not take preventative care which is one of the major problems with those who currently have no insurance or sub-par insurance.

Also what happens to those who have poor health and so would benefit more from traditional health coverage when people with good health start leaving traditional insurance to get into a MSA program? Rates are likely to go up for those who need health coverage most.

Also, since deposits into them and qualified spending from them are not taxable would this have a dramatic impact on tax revenues if the MSA program were to take off? This one is more just a potential problem that I see.