Universal Healthcare, Is it scriptural?

[J.R]

Being an American I know that we are a country of rights. Such as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Do we as Americans have a right to expect national healthcare as one of those rights? Is there a scripture to support it as a right or is it just the morally correct thing to do as a christian american?

 

[Superstar905]

Being an American I know that we are a country of rights. Such as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Do we as Americans have a right to expect national healthcare as one of those rights? Is there a scripture to support it as a right or is it just the morally correct thing to do as a christian american?

We have it in Canada, the same country that turned its back on marriage and rights for the unborn. Go figure.

 

[Melchior]

Being an American I know that we are a country of rights. Such as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Do we as Americans have a right to expect national healthcare as one of those rights? Is there a scripture to support it as a right or is it just the morally correct thing to do as a christian american?

Nope.

Often, things meant to fix social ills only make it worse when you get the government involved. There is no Biblical mandate for universal healthcare. In fact more people die because of universal healthcare in the UK and Canada than here of things like cancer and heart disease because of long waiting lines and lower quality healthcare professional because of lack of incentives.

Mel

 

[Steven_Merten]

Hello JR,

Jesus commands His followers to care for the poor. Jesus gives His word that those of His followers who care for the ill and poor will enter into eternal life. Jesus gives His word that those of His followers who do not care for ill and poor, He will burn in hell with the devil and his angels.

I do not think you can get a better Christ established, Church delivered, health care plan.

The problem is that Catholics, with the finatial ability to do so, (Catholics with wealth beyond basic nessessities) disobey Christ’s command and disbelieve Christ’s Word that He will burn them in hell for not supplying health care to the poor.

The problem with Christ’s universal health care plan is poor planing on Catholics who, at least claim, they want to go to heaven.

NAB MAT 25:31

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’ Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

 

[DaughterSorrow]

Nope.

Often, things meant to fix social ills only make it worse when you get the government involved. There is no Biblical mandate for universal healthcare. In fact more people die because of universal healthcare in the UK and Canada than here of things like cancer and heart disease because of long waiting lines and lower quality healthcare professional because of lack of incentives.

Mel

I don’t know about that, as overall their mortality rates are lower than they are in the US…

 

[hoosierdaddy]

We have it in Canada, the same country that turned its back on marriage and rights for the unborn. Go figure.

Those issues have nothing to do with the topic and don’t prove that universal health care is not a good thing. The U.S. denies rights for the unborn too.

I believe it is a good thing. Since our money is not our own we have no say in what is done with it. We are stewards of God’s money and when we pay our taxes, some of that money goes toward universal health care. I believe health care to be a right of each of us, and I believe it to be a good thing and Scriptural. I realize many, many people disagree with me because I’ve been in tonnes of arguments on this issue. I have never changed my convictions though. Universal health care is good and it is God honouring.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I don’t know about that, as overall their mortality rates are lower than they are in the US…

Unless I am mistaken, the mortality rate in both countries is 100%.

Lifespan has a very strong genetic component – the best way to live a long time is to select parents who lived a long time. So when comparing Canada and the US, you must stratify the population – comparing like with like. If you do that, you will find certain groups tend to have longer life spans than others – and Canada’s population is made up of more of the longer-living groups than the United States population.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Mel>>

In fact more people die because of universal healthcare in the UK and Canada than here of things like cancer and heart disease because of long waiting lines and lower quality healthcare professional because of lack of incentives.

**
Are there longer waiting lines simply because of universal health care though? Or are there longer waiting lines because there are less doctors and hospitals are closing? There are less doctors because many go to the U.S. for the buck instead of staying in their country to heal the sick. I’d say universal health care honours God more than doctors who leave their country for another just for the money.**

 

[Durendin]

In fact more people die because of universal healthcare in the UK and Canada than here of things like cancer and heart disease because of long waiting lines and lower quality healthcare professional because of lack of incentives.

I don’t even know where to begin correcting that one!

I’ve just received an operation to re-attach my retina. I was diagnosed on the Tuesday, went into theatre on the Wednesday and home on the Thurdsay at no charge past my bus fare to hospital. Under a medical insurance scheme I’d probably still be half blind filling out forms and going for assesments which would no-doubt still result in me footing part of the bill for the surgery when credit had been approved.

The surgeons and doctors in the UK are the best paid in the world with some top end General Practitioners (family doctors) earning around half a million GBP annually, so Lord knows what the top end surgeons get. If that isn’t incentive, I don’t know what is considered to be in the US.

Is the UK health service perfect? Not by a long shot, but it’s better than none at all.

 

[ora_pro_nobis]

Melchior,
in the UK the NHS may not be perfect, but it is available to all regardless of their financial/insurance status. If one is unfortunate enough to be diagnosed with anything life threatening one goes to the top of the waiting list.
I have a number of health problems which, if I lived in the US, I would not be able to get insurance cover for. As it is, I go to my GP, and if there are problems which need dealing with, she refers me straight away. Only this week I asked if I could see a podiatrist, and I got a letter from them this morning fixing me up with an appointment.
I visit people in hospital with intractable medical conditions and despite the financial constraints on the health service, their care is second to none.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

The Catholic Church has always been against socialism and it is a fact that when Jesus separates the sheep and the goats that the sheep will be on the right and the goats will be on the left.

Having the government provide universal healthcare–while laudable–does not gurantee that our own responsibility for taking care of the “least of our bretheren” has been fulfilled.

I will say this–if anyone is upset because the government does not provide this to everyone–they can take whatever additional money that the government would require in taxes to fund such a program out of their own pocket and donate it for the healthcare of the poor!

 

[Durendin]

Strange how healthcare provision is considered “socialist” and yet other comparable services are not?

For example, the Fire Brigade for example was started by Insurance Companies to stop insured properties from being destroyed, this was later nationalised. Security was once the exclusive right to whom ever could afford guards prior to Robert Peel inventing a governmental security force that would later become known as the Police.

Surely, those who object to governments providing healthcare should also be, by logical definition objecting to policing and fire protection as well? (And that’s just for starters!)

 

[Equus_Pallidus]

Christ never sought political solutions and never taught us to. He wanted us to be his, and our charity was for his glory and not the glory of government where people are forced to “give”. No, Universal heath care is not scriptural, it is an affront to scripture. Those who are forced into caring receive no reward, as with Christ, only by choosing can we receive salvation.

The Churches built the hospitals in this country, not the government. But Satan slithered in with his bureaucracy and stole it from the Church and placed it in the hands of government. For those who have not read The Hideous Strength by C.S. Lewis, it might be a good idea to do so now,

 

[vern_humphrey]

Mel>>**
Are there longer waiting lines simply because of universal health care though? Or are there longer waiting lines because there are less doctors and hospitals are closing? There are less doctors because many go to the U.S. for the buck instead of staying in their country to heal the sick. I’d say universal health care honours God more than doctors who leave their country for another just for the money.**

You’re not Siamese, are you?

In Thailand (Siam) there are fishermen. These fishermen are Buddists and forbidden to kill anything. So how do they justify killing fish for a living?

Why, they don’t kill the fish – they perform a charitable service, taking the poor fish out of water and drying them out. If the fish choose to die, that’s** their** problem.

Similarly, thoise who institute measures that hurt the healthcare system – driving out doctors and closing hospitals – they take the Thai fisherman’s approach.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Christ never sought political solutions and never taught us to. He wanted us to be his, and our charity was for his glory and not the glory of government where people are forced to “give”. No, Universal heath care is not scriptural, it is an affront to scripture. Those who are forced into caring receive no reward, as with Christ, only by choosing can we receive salvation.

The Churches built the hospitals in this country, not the government. But Satan slithered in with his bureaucracy and stole it from the Church and placed it in the hands of government. For those who have not read The Hideous Strength by C.S. Lewis, it might be a good idea to do so now,

Let’s take a look at true Catholic teaching in this area – Saint Paul, in Chapter 5 of First Timothy says:

16 If any woman believer has widowed relatives, she must assist them; the church is not to be burdened, **so that it will be able to help those who are truly widows. **

(my emphasis)

This is the problem with “universal health care” – it isn’t for the truly needy, it’s for everyone, even those who can get and afford insurance. And as Saint Paul tells us, that places a burden on society so it is not able to adequately help those who are truly needy.

 

[mary_bobo]

Mel>>**
Are there longer waiting lines simply because of universal health care though? Or are there longer waiting lines because there are less doctors and hospitals are closing? There are less doctors because many go to the U.S. for the buck instead of staying in their country to heal the sick. I’d say universal health care honours God more than doctors who leave their country for another just for the money.**[/QUOE]

Have you ever thought that some of them might not want to practice under the constrictions that a socialist form of health care encompasses? I don’t think many doctors want to see their patients wait for a procedure that we could get right away, and while they are waiting, they die. I thinki you are being a little cynical to think that all doctors are only in it for the money.

 

[mary_bobo]

Unless I am mistaken, the mortality rate in both countries is 100%.

Lifespan has a very strong genetic component – the best way to live a long time is to select parents who lived a long time. So when comparing Canada and the US, you must stratify the population – comparing like with like. If you do that, you will find certain groups tend to have longer life spans than others – and Canada’s population is made up of more of the longer-living groups than the United States population.

They don’t fry everything like we good Southern cooks do.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

hoosierdaddy;1809834:

Mel>>**
Are there longer waiting lines simply because of universal health care though? Or are there longer waiting lines because there are less doctors and hospitals are closing? There are less doctors because many go to the U.S. for the buck instead of staying in their country to heal the sick. I’d say universal health care honours God more than doctors who leave their country for another just for the money.**

[/QUOE]

Have you ever thought that some of them might not want to practice under the constrictions that a socialist form of health care encompasses? I don’t think many doctors want to see their patients wait for a procedure that we could get right away, and while they are waiting, they die. I thinki you are being a little cynical to think that all doctors are only in it for the money.

What constrictions though? A doctor’s job is to treat the sick. There are no constrictions to doing that are there? If a doctor leaves our country for yours, it’s most likely that he/she is doing it for the money. You don’t see many American doctors coming here do you?

 

[vern_humphrey]

What constrictions though? A doctor’s job is to treat the sick. There are no constrictions to doing that are there? If a doctor leaves our country for yours, it’s most likely that he/she is doing it for the money. You don’t see many American doctors coming here do you?

I like to follow what I call “Moral pragmatism.” I define that as, “If you are morally impelled to act, you are morally impelled to act in a way that brings about the desired result.” When an act – however well intentioned – brings about a bad effect, we have a moral obligation to change our course of action and correct our errors.

If hospitals are closing in Canada and doctors fleeing the country, the Canadians have violated moral pragmatism – and blaming the doctors don’t feed the bulldog.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I like to follow what I call “Moral pragmatism.” I define that as, “If you are morally impelled to act, you are morally impelled to act in a way that brings about the desired result.” When an act – however well intentioned – brings about a bad effect, we have a moral obligation to change our course of action and correct our errors.

If hospitals are closing in Canada and doctors fleeing the country, the Canadians have violated moral pragmatism – and blaming the doctors don’t feed the bulldog.

Understood. Was that Kant’s philosophy too?

Hospitals are closing in Canada because of the politicians. The doctors aren’t at fault though many still feel they left for the money. I think it’s the politicians. The hospital I was born in could still be open today but it isn’t. And they had just done hundreds of thousands of dollars of renovation work a few years before it closed. It is now a place where they train police dogs and it may be torn down. Such a shame.

Oh…and another hospital no longer has an emergency room.