Universal Indult

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lak611 said:
It would probably take years to learn. After all, back before the Pauline Mass was introduced, most priests were former altar boys (in fact, even now, most priests had been altar boys when they were kids–only they didn’t need to know Latin). An altar boy would have learned the Latin in order to serve at Mass. So even before entering the Seminary, he would have known the Latin for many years. It would be hard to teach somebody a language in a few months, rather than a long time, like maybe 15 years.
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They don’t need to learn the language, they need to learn the TLM.
They won’t have to converse, just celebrate.

I learned a Japanese song phonetically from a Miyazaki DVD in three weeks, with a translation of the words. My kids and I sound pretty good doing it, too.

Trust me, my 9&6 years olds as well as myself, are not half as intelligent as most Priest.

If they want to learn it, they will
 
netmil(name removed by moderator) said:
I don’t know, my friend, I have never seen THIS happen before…
catholicherald.co.uk/news/News3.html
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GOD BLESS OUR PAPA BENEDETTO!!!

He sure showed those French bishops a thing or two!👍

Now if he would call up an American bishop or two…😃

Seriously though, you would think that the French bishops would be doing whatever it takes to bring back the orthodox Catholic faith to France, but no…instead, they spend their time fighting the TLM…kind of sad if you ask me:(
 
netmil(name removed by moderator) said:
They don’t need to learn the language, they need to learn the TLM.
They won’t have to converse, just celebrate.

I learned a Japanese song phonetically from a Miyazaki DVD in three weeks, with a translation of the words. My kids and I sound pretty good doing it, too.

Trust me, my 9&6 years olds as well as myself, are not half as intelligent as most Priest.

If they want to learn it, they will
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But shouldn’t a priest actually know the meaning of the words he is saying in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass?
 
netmil(name removed by moderator) said:
They don’t need to learn the language, they need to learn the TLM.
They won’t have to converse, just celebrate.

I learned a Japanese song phonetically from a Miyazaki DVD in three weeks, with a translation of the words. My kids and I sound pretty good doing it, too.

Trust me, my 9&6 years olds as well as myself, are not half as intelligent as most Priest.

If they want to learn it, they will
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Another problem is that they really would need to learn the Latin language, not just phonetical pronunciation, because that would work just for the ordinary of the Mass, but they also would need to be able to read the epistle and gospel in Latin. To read the epistle and gospel, they would need to KNOW Latin because those readings are different every day of the year.
 
Way to go Pope Benedict 👍

I knew he wouldnt give in to these liberal Bishops. Ahh, alas for the old days when they would have bent over backwards at a word from the Roman Pontiff.
 
This thread represents a merge between posts which totally hijacked another thread and were incorporated into a duplicate thread on the same topic.

Just a reminder: Please be courteous enough not to hijack threads and re Forum Rules on PRIVATE MESSAGING
  1. If you have something to say to an individual member that is not of general interest to the board, use the private messaging system.
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Your cooperation and assistance will really be appreciated. TY
 
lak611 said:
But shouldn’t a priest actually know the meaning of the words he is saying in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass?
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Yes. And they could.
Did you ever watch the Passion of the Christ?
Could you speak Aramaic? No.
You had subtitles.
 
lak611 said:
Another problem is that they really would need to learn the Latin language, not just phonetical pronunciation, because that would work just for the ordinary of the Mass, but they also would need to be able to read the epistle and gospel in Latin. To read the epistle and gospel, they would need to KNOW Latin because those readings are different every day of the year.
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Actually the Epistle and the Gospel were usually and still are usually read in one of two ways. Either they are both read in Latin then re-read in the vernacular or read in Latin and simultaneously in the Vernacular. It was a seldom occurance when these readings were both done only in Latin and most of the time that happened was either at Private Masses:bigyikes: or daily masses where you generally had the same crowd every day, who often knew more about what was going on than the Priest did.
 
The simple fact of the matter is that to celebrate Mass in Latin, a priest needs to be fluent in the language.

For true (vocal) prayer [and the liturgy is mainly vocal prayer], the mind and voice must be in accord - so the Holy Sacrifice demands more than the empty pronunciation of sounds.

(I studied Latin at home for a few years and I’ve now completed one year of my Bachelor of Arts degree majoring in Latin, and I can really only now read the ordinary, prayers and scriptures of the Mass. Just. So I can see that it really does take years.)
 
We’ve been wandering in the desert for 40 years so, please be patient with us if we seem impatient.

We’re still discerning as whether it is a mirage or a real oasis. The thirst is terrible and the well is sweet and refreashing.

Soon, God, soon.
 
If majority of our priests doesn’t know Latin, then we are really in trouble. Just think of it, our beloved priests cannot even speak and understand the official language of the Church. I thought Latin is still being taught in seminaries even though the Mass is said in vernacular.

With regards to the laity not being able to understand Latin Mass argument, I think it is every Catholic’s responsibility to study the theology and the language of the TLM. Though not everybody has the opportunity to study in a Catholic school, I believe we can compensate it by organizing lectures regarding the theology behind the TLM so that many people will appreciate it. Even though TLM has been around for centuries, it will be NEW to our generation, hence, our beloved bishops are hesitant as they are afraid that they will loose our generation because we do not understand the language nor the theology behind TLM.

This generation has the time for everything that is entertaining: movies, sports, tv shows, night outs, ipods, etc. I think this generation should spare some time learning Latin and the TLM.

It will also help if our beloved bishops would make it mandatory for Catholic schools to give Latin courses. Again, think of it, Catholic schools ignorant of the language of the Catholic Church.
 
sparc said:
If majority of our priests doesn’t know Latin, then we are really in trouble. Just think of it, our beloved priests cannot even speak and understand the official language of the Church. I thought Latin is still being taught in seminaries even though the Mass is said in vernacular.

With regards to the laity not being able to understand Latin Mass argument, I think it is every Catholic’s responsibility to study the theology and the language of the TLM. Though not everybody has the opportunity to study in a Catholic school, I believe we can compensate it by organizing lectures regarding the theology behind the TLM so that many people will appreciate it. Even though TLM has been around for centuries, it will be NEW to our generation, hence, our beloved bishops are hesitant as they are afraid that they will loose our generation because we do not understand the language nor the theology behind TLM.

This generation has the time for everything that is entertaining: movies, sports, tv shows, night outs, ipods, etc. I think this generation should spare some time learning Latin and the TLM.

It will also help if our beloved bishops would make it mandatory for Catholic schools to give Latin courses. Again, think of it, Catholic schools ignorant of the language of the Catholic Church.
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With the majority of the world’s Catholics living in poor countries how do you propose they do that?
 
thistle said:
With the majority of the world’s Catholics living in poor countries how do you propose they do that?
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There are actually a fair amount of TLMs and priests who say them in the third world. Gabon Africa comes to mind specifically. The Institute of Christ the king runs a very successful mission there where plenty of Africans flock to it.👍
 
lak611 said:
It would probably take years to learn. After all, back before the Pauline Mass was introduced, most priests were former altar boys (in fact, even now, most priests had been altar boys when they were kids–only they didn’t need to know Latin). An altar boy would have learned the Latin in order to serve at Mass. So even before entering the Seminary, he would have known the Latin for many years. It would be hard to teach somebody a language in a few months, rather than a long time, like maybe 15 years.
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Well 15 years is a gross exaggeration. The military, for example, trains people in foreign languages in a matter of months. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Language_Institute

But regardless, what difference does it make? There are priests now who can say the Mass (NO or TLM) in Latin. In a year there will be more. In two years there will be more still. And so on, and so on. Why is this even considered an issue?
 
It is not going to be that difficult. If people in such disparate places as the Middle East, Britain, France, Germany, Spain, and Africa back around the 5th century, with all their differing dialects and with much less literacy, could handle going to a universal Latin Mass, so can we. We have a lot more advantages–easy access to written materials, longer life spans, much easier life styles and leisure time, and the ‘rubrics’ already instituted and still known by a fair number of priests.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
It is not going to be that difficult. If people in such disparate places as the Middle East, Britain, France, Germany, Spain, and Africa back around the 5th century, with all their differing dialects and with much less literacy, could handle going to a universal Latin Mass, so can we. We have a lot more advantages–easy access to written materials, longer life spans, much easier life styles and leisure time, and the ‘rubrics’ already instituted and still known by a fair number of priests.
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😃 Not to take away from your main (and very true) point, but early on (like 16th century), parts of the Middle East and Persia could offer Mass in Arabic.
 
sparc said:
With regards to the laity not being able to understand Latin Mass argument, I think it is every Catholic’s responsibility to study the theology and the language of the TLM.
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Latin is the language of the Church and, without question, it is the responsibility of every Catholic to know and understand enough Latin to understand the Pauline Mass in Latin and respond appropriately. If this causes them to be able to understand the TLM, then so be it- but not everybody wishes to see the TLM brought back and there is certainly no responsibility upon faithful Catholics to wish that it were. This may be seen as nitpicky, but I think it is an important distinction.
 
thistle said:
With the majority of the world’s Catholics living in poor countries how do you propose they do that?
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As my four year old learned.
Introduce parts of the Holy Mass in the language of the Church a bit at a time.
It may take a while but it will work.

Start with the Kyrie in Greek and go to the Latin.

You sometimes make it sound like those in the US are not nor have ever been poor. How do you think those on the prairie learned anything.

Here is a help. Pick any person here on CAF and have them contact their priest. Explain that over seas the people are in need of resources to help with this task.
I know that if that call came in to my parish, people would be willing to help. You may even get more than you need.

Those in the USA are truly not self centered Ogres. We are very loving and generous people, especially when you go to our people individually.
 
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