University daily mass

[archangel04]

So today I got out early from class and figure I would attend daily mass at the chapel in Loyola University in Chicago. I wasn’t expecting a TLM or super reverence since it’s a university. Well the mass was going ok until the 2nd part of the mass. Why do churches still insist on using glass cups to hold the Sacred blood? A university can’t afford a couple of silver or gold plated chalice? But that’s not the worst, there were to EMs who approached the altar before the Lamb of God payer and before the priest took communion. So I figure that was the worst, but then after communion was done instead of taking the cups to the altar so the priest could cleanse them, the EMs took them to the side poured water and “cleaned” them themselves I know they do this out of ignorance, but I would expect for the Jesuits to know better. So I was wondering if there is any advice you guys could give me? Could i write a letter to someone? Thanks again.

 

[JohnDamian]

Speak to the Priest himself; and if that is fruitless then speak to whoever runs the Church; which is probably the local Diocese.

 

[archangel04]

I guess I am just scared because I feel he will look at me like a usual “traditionalist” not wanting to accept V2, but I will give it a try.

 

[benedictgal]

This is what Redemptionis Sacramentum states regarding “glassware”:

[117.] Sacred vessels for containing the Body and Blood of the Lord must be made in strict conformity with the norms of tradition and of the liturgical books.205 The Bishops’ Conferences have the faculty to decide whether it is appropriate, once their decisions have been given the recognitio by the Apostolic See, for sacred vessels to be made of other solid materials as well. It is strictly required, however, that such materials be truly noble in the common estimation within a given region,206 so that honor will be given to the Lord by their use, and all risk of diminishing the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharistic species in the eyes of the faithful will be avoided. Reprobated, therefore, is any practice of using for the celebration of Mass common vessels, or others lacking in quality, or devoid of all artistic merit or which are mere containers, as also other vessels made from glass, earthenware, clay, or other materials that break easily. This norm is to be applied even as regards metals and other materials that easily rust or deteriorate.207

Regarding when EMHCs are supposed to approach the altar,the GIRM makes this very clear:

1. The priest may be assisted in the distribution of Communion by other priests who happen to be present. If such priests are not present and there is a very large number of communicants, the priest may call upon extraordinary ministers to assist him, e.g., duly instituted acolytes or even other faithful who have been deputed for this purpose.97 In case of necessity, the priest may depute suitable faithful for this single occasion.98

These ministers should not approach the altar before the priest has received Communion, and they are always to receive from the hands of the priest celebrant the vessel containing either species of the Most Holy Eucharist for distribution to the faithful.

Concerning the issue of purifying the sacred vessels, Pope Benedict allowed the indult to expire. Here is what Redemptionis Sacramentum states:

119.] The Priest, once he has returned to the altar after the distribution of Communion, standing at the altar or at the credence table, purifies the paten or ciborium over the chalice, then purifies the chalice in accordance with the prescriptions of the Missal and wipes the chalice with the purificator. Where a Deacon is present, he returns with the Priest to the altar and purifies the vessels. It is permissible, however, especially if there are several vessels to be purified, to leave them, covered as may be appropriate, on a corporal on the altar or on the credence table, and for them to be purified by the Priest or Deacon immediately after Mass once the people have been dismissed. Moreover a duly instituted acolyte assists the Priest or Deacon in purifying and arranging the sacred vessels either at the altar or the credence table. In the absence of a Deacon, a duly instituted acolyte carries the sacred vessels to the credence table and there purifies, wipes and arranges them in the usual way.209

It would be best to write a charitable letter to the priest in question. If nothing happens, then, a letter to the bishop of that diocese would be in order. Attach copies of your correspondence and whatever response the priest gives you. If the bishop does not do anything about the situation, then, your next recourse is the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Speak to the Priest himself; and if that is fruitless then speak to whoever runs the Church; which is probably the local Diocese.

If it is a univeristy Chapel at a Jesuit univeristy then the chapel is run by the Jesuits.

If the priest doesn’t respond contact the campus ministy and possibly the superior of the community.

 

[JReducation]

Benedictgal’s resources are good. If I’m correct, the chapel belongs to the Society of Jesus and falls under the jurisdiction of their Ordinary, not the diocesan bishop. The chain of command would be from the bottom up:

1. Priest
2. Campus Ministry
3. Local superior
4. Provincial Superior
5. Superior General
6. Sacred Congregation

If you were to write directly to the Sacred Congregation your letter would be forwarded to the Jesuit motherhouse, which would then forward it to the Pronvincial motherhosue,which would then foward it to the local superior, who would forward it to Campus Ministry.

If my memory serves me correclty, this is a private university, not a diocesan university.

You can approach the priest with the question, instead of rubbing his nose in documents. He may actually appreciate an intelligent question and you may get some good conversation and even see some changes. Most people in campus ministry are very gentle and approachable. They have a knee-jerk reaction when you’re aggressive, not inquisitive. Give it a shot! I’ll pray for you.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[archangel04]

So basically I am right about my concerns correct? I just don’t want to be seen as some “child” who is reading “big boy” documents ha ha I am 25. Thank you all for your info and help. Also thank you Br JR as I always look forward to any of your feedback, and yes it is a private Jesuit University and falls under their jurisdiction, but slowly this school is changing and becomming much more secular, in fact planned parenthood was there the first week of class promoting themselves on campus, they refused to speak to me when I questioned them about their motives.

 

[JReducation]

So basically I am right about my concerns correct? I just don’t want to be seen as some “child” who is reading “big boy” documents ha ha I am 25. Thank you all for your info and help. Also thank you Br JR as I always look forward to any of your feedback, and yes it is a private Jesuit University and falls under their jurisdiction, but slowly this school is changing and becomming much more secular, in fact p**lanned parenthood was there **the first week of class promoting themselves on campus, they refused to speak to me when I questioned them about their motives.

Bold is mine.

Now THAT causes me to shudder more than a glass chalice. I’m not approving of the glass chalice. But at least the glass chalice is not a sin. It’s just dangerous, because glass breaks. Planned parenthood promotes abortion. There is no way to get around that one. I would encourage you to ask about that too.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[benedictgal]

Bold is mine.

Now THAT causes me to shudder more than a glass chalice. I’m not approving of the glass chalice. But at least the glass chalice is not a sin. It’s just dangerous, because glass breaks. Planned parenthood promotes abortion. There is no way to get around that one. I would encourage you to ask about that too.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

But, the use of a glass chalice is reprobated and those who continue to use this are acting in disobedience.

 

[corsair]

Well after all they are Jesuits. What do you expect, reverence? Or even following the rules. Why, they are “enlightened” and progressive.
Seriously though, I have met a few Jesuits that I truely respected; Fr. Ken Baker being one.

 

[JReducation]

But, the use of a glass chalice is reprobated and those who continue to use this are acting in disobedience.

My dear sister, if I have to choose between two battles, the fight against abortion wins hands down. We cannot place disobedience and murder on the same plane.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[archangel04]

My dear sister, if I have to choose between two battles, the fight against abortion wins hands down. We cannot place disobedience and murder on the same plane.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Agree! But if I can kill 2 birds with one stone then why not give it a try right?

 

[JReducation]

Agree! But if I can kill 2 birds with one stone then why not give it a try right?

No argument from me there.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[FirstCalled]

So today I got out early from class and figure I would attend daily mass at the chapel in Loyola University in Chicago. I wasn’t expecting a TLM or super reverence since it’s a university. Well the mass was going ok until the 2nd part of the mass. Why do churches still insist on using glass cups to hold the Sacred blood? A university can’t afford a couple of silver or gold plated chalice? But that’s not the worst, there were to EMs who approached the altar before the Lamb of God payer and before the priest took communion. So I figure that was the worst, but then after communion was done instead of taking the cups to the altar so the priest could cleanse them, the EMs took them to the side poured water and “cleaned” them themselves I know they do this out of ignorance, but I would expect for the Jesuits to know better. So I was wondering if there is any advice you guys could give me? Could i write a letter to someone? Thanks again.

Our diocese (Orange, Ca) is exactly as you described. They are not ignorant. They know.

 

[benedictgal]

My dear sister, if I have to choose between two battles, the fight against abortion wins hands down. We cannot place disobedience and murder on the same plane.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

However, if we cannot be faithful in liturgical matters, how can we be faithful in other matters? We pray as we believe. If we believe that we can treat the Mass however we please, then, the effects, sadly, tend to extend themselves to other things.

 

[archangel04]

Our diocese (Orange, Ca) is exactly as you described. They are not ignorant. They know.

I’ve seen some videoes of certain parishes in your diocese and I truly feel sorry for you and true Catholics. That holloween mass was truly disturbing.

 

[JReducation]

However, if we cannot be faithful in liturgical matters, how can we be faithful in other matters? We pray as we believe. If we believe that we can treat the Mass however we please, then, the effects, sadly, tend to extend themselves to other things.

This is true, but we’re talking here about a young person who is trying to be faithful and has two situations going on at the school. If he can deal with both, that would be ideal. If he can only deal with one, the presence of abortionists has to take priority. It is the greater moral evil, therefoer, the struggle to correct it becomes the greater good.

We have to help people take on missions that are manageable. Sometimes, two missions may be manageable and sometimes they may not be and the person has to choose one. In this case, choose to confront the presence of abortionists on a Catholic campus. THAT offends the Sacred Heart of Jesus much more than a glass goblet.

It is important to help people to align priorities. I’m not supporting the use of a glass goblet. From a very simple perspective, it’s an accident waiting to happen . . . one that can be avoided. We shouldn’t need long decrees from the Vatican to see this.

When our young people are subjected to both situations, they don’t always know which one to deal with first and which one is an emergency. It should be clear to every Catholic, which one is an emergency . . . that’s the life of the unborn. It is the duty of the older Catholic to help them organize themselves and their struggles.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[ProVobis]

However, if we cannot be faithful in liturgical matters, how can we be faithful in other matters? We pray as we believe. If we believe that we can treat the Mass however we please, then, the effects, sadly, tend to extend themselves to other things.

Great point!

 

[ProVobis]

However, if we cannot be faithful in liturgical matters, how can we be faithful in other matters? We pray as we believe. If we believe that we can treat the Mass however we please, then, the effects, sadly, tend to extend themselves to other things.

Good point!

 

[RedStang]

Which is Jesus more offended by? A humble dwelling beneath his worth or the murder of millions of his own?

I agree that killing two birds with one stone would be great, but in such divergent issue with very different root causes and primary players it is not likely to happen. You’ll probably need to mount two campaigns for the sake of our Lord and will need to connect your prayers and actions to two very different groups to make it happen.

While you do have a right and a certain obligation which comes with knowledge and piety to admonish the priest in the Lord’s timing and ways, the moral responsibility for the use of the glass cup and the poor EMHC training rests solely on him. Yes, it requires action. This is not a money changers in the temple issue. It is a long-term problem which erodes parishioners’ understanding of and respect for the Lord, the liturgy, and the Eucharist. This is going to take time and determination to change a culture.

Your own Catholic school hosting PP and allowing them to “educate” your fellow students in their subversive and perverted ways in order to soften your friends and colleagues into supporting their cause, the cause of eugenics and murder, is something that you must speak up about and you must do so with vehemence. Time is of the essence, I would assume, since these types of things aren’t usually announced well in advance and the exposure to this event one time could cause devastating effects in spiritual and physical lives down the line.

I would suggest this order of things for your consideration:

1. 
   *]Pray to the Lord for guidance and strength. Offer spiritual reparations for the glass cup and pray for the priest and his superiors.
   *]Pray to the Lord for guidance and strength. Contact the department or club that is sponsoring PP and tell them politely but firmly that this needs to be cancelled and why. People here could help you word it if you needed help. Don’t wait long for a response if the talk is scheduled less than 2-3 weeks out.
   *]Pray to the Lord for guidance and strength. Contact every local pro-life organization or potentially friendly group you can find. Alumni, parents, local churches, campus clubs, whatever support you can get to put pressure on them. Try to limit publicity at this point so as not to attract those who would support them. It would be good for them to go away quietly.
   *]Pray to the Lord for guidance and strength. Hopefully someone among these contacts with much larger networks and influence will take up writing the group’s or department’s superiors about why this needs to be cancelled immediately and will have an offer for an alternative speaker who can address these issues in light of Catholic teaching. If not, and if you’ve not been successful, then ask them for guidance on how to be successful and contact the appropriate superiors yourself.
   *]Pray to the Lord for guidance and strength. Don’t forget your studies or your prayer life because being a grouchy, failing guy wouldn’t help much in the long run.
   *]Pray to the Lord for guidance and strength. If any of those contacts you’ve made would be helpful in the issue of the EMHC training and the use of the glass cup, bring it up and see what guidance they can offer.
   *]Pray to the Lord for guidance and strength. Follow-up as necessary on the PP issue. If it really isn’t going to go away, organize a counter-rally, speaker who will address the same topics, and media coverage including school paper and local media.
   *]Pray to the Lord for guidance and strength. Advertise like crazy. Get it put in the church bulletins of all the local Catholic churches. Call up parish leaders and directly invite them, explaining why their presence is really needed to support the pro-life cause, offer to send them a PDF flyer they can print off and pass around. Put it on Facebook, Youtube, CAF, and whatever online networks you can find. Try to pack the house so they won’t go to the alternative. Maybe Rock for Life would be a good choice for such an event.
   *]Pray to the Lord for guidance and strength. Follow up with the upper administration. Address specific steps you want them to take to better live their Catholic faith including the glass cup and liturgical training, not allowing school clubs or facilities to promote topics directly counter to the faith including a specific prohibition for the use of PP training, materials, or resources in campus activities, and whatever else is on your list.
   *]Pray to the Lord for guidance and strength. You’re gonna need it because this is only the beginning of what will hopefully be a very fruitful battle for your faith. On this, the feast of St. Michael, it is a great day to begin such a journey! You have my prayers.