Unlaicized Married Priest

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Deacon Ed:
Yes, serving as a lector is prohibited to a man in his current relationship with the Curch. It is a liteugical ministry and he is not permitted to exercise it.

Finally,an ecclesiastical office is defined in canon law as “any post which by divine or ecclesiastical disposition is established in a stable manner to further a spiritual purpose.” Thus, serving as a deacon or priest or bishop would be fulfilling an “ecclesiastical office.”
moreover, he would not be allowed to carry out any teaching function, including catechist, director of religious education, editor of a diocesan publication or broadcast program, writing religious textbooks etc.
 
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puzzleannie:
moreover, he would not be allowed to carry out any teaching function, including catechist, director of religious education, editor of a diocesan publication or broadcast program, writing religious textbooks etc.
Whoa! So what CAN an unlaicized invalidly married priest with children do?
 
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MaryAgnes:
Whoa! So what CAN an unlaicized invalidly married priest with children do?
petition his bishop to begin the laicization process, and when and if permission is obtained, begin proceedings to convalidate his marriage. he is a similar position to a Catholic who obtained a civil divorce and remarried without obtaining a decree of nullity from his first marriage. He has placed himself, wife and children in an untenable position and has disbarred himself from reception of the sacraments in the Catholic Church and participation in any kind of ministry.
 
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MaryAgnes:
Whoa! So what CAN an unlaicized invalidly married priest with children do?
He can attend Mass without receiving the Sacraments. He can pray and hope to repent and be reconcilied to God and His Church before he dies.
 
Br. Rich SFO:
He can attend Mass without receiving the Sacraments. He can pray and hope to repent and be reconcilied to God and His Church before he dies.
And what about his wife? Can she be a catechist? Involved in any kind of parish ministry?
 
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MaryAgnes:
And what about his wife? Can she be a catechist? Involved in any kind of parish ministry?
Not currently as she is living in sin.

Until he is laicized and their marriage is convalidated they are not married.
 
At this point in my life I have all I can do to come to grips with my own sins let alone worring about the sins of others.
Mike
 
Mike Dye:
At this point in my life I have all I can do to come to grips with my own sins let alone worring about the sins of others.
Mike
How true, Mike, how true. Yet, when a scandal involving clergy is being committed right before your eyes (and the lives of innocent children) should we just put our heads in the sand? Isn’t that what many bishops were guilty of?
 
Mike Dye:
At this point in my life I have all I can do to come to grips with my own sins let alone worring about the sins of others.
Mike
I can understand this sentiment but…

When people are living in unrepentant public sin and are allowed to act as ministers and/or in a leadership position in the community then the Teachings of the Church are watered down.
 
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ByzCath:
I can understand this sentiment but…

When people are living in unrepentant public sin and are allowed to act as ministers and/or in a leadership position in the community then the Teachings of the Church are watered down.
I agree. Public sin such as this is confusing to people. There is no need for it to continue especially when the situation can be resolved.
 
What would be the repercussions to the children? They can still receive Holy Communion, etc., correct?
It makes me wonder why the couple has chosen to remain in the church if they are flaunting their indiscretion-they seem to have little respect for the church.
I only say that because if he is/was a priest he is certainly not ignorant to the implications of their situation and what is proper. :confused:
 
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Philomeena:
What would be the repercussions to the children? They can still receive Holy Communion, etc., correct?
It makes me wonder why the couple has chosen to remain in the church if they are flaunting their indiscretion-they seem to have little respect for the church.
I only say that because if he is/was a priest he is certainly not ignorant to the implications of their situation and what is proper. :confused:
As to the law, children are not punished for the misdeeds of their parents. The children can receive sacraments, etc. but would seem to be receiving grossly perverse example. In baptism though, the Church expects the parents or at least one to raise the child in the faith though word and deed, being in communion with the Church. The irregular status of the parties is something that ought to have been confronted at the time when they approached the Church for the baptism of their children.

As to why this couple does not rectify their situation and flaunt it . . . While we can’t presume to judge intentions in a particular case, we can judge actions such as those which manifest unrepentence and give scandal. In general though, we should never underestimate the power of self deception, pride, and arrogance not only in others but also in ourselves.

We can only hope the bishop becomes aware of the situation and acts to protect the faithful not only in respect to the couple who are functioning publicly but also in respect to the priest who appears to have condoned all of this. I hope MaryAgnes has derived sufficient additional courage to contact her bishop.

Although we too are sinners, we have no need of bad example.
 
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cameron_lansing:
The children can receive sacraments, etc. but would seem to be receiving grossly perverse example.
Indeed … grossly perverse! 😦
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cameron_lansing:
I hope MaryAgnes has derived sufficient additional courage to contact her bishop.
What a sticky situation … Believe it or not, but me thinks my Bishop has greater priorities than one invalidly married unlaicized priest with children that lectors at Sunday liturgies and his wife who is a catechist! :banghead:
 
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MaryAgnes:
What a sticky situation … Believe it or not, but me thinks my Bishop has greater priorities than one invalidly married unlaicized priest with children that lectors at Sunday liturgies and his wife who is a catechist! :banghead:
So that means you haven’t contacted your bishop?

I can not think of much else that is more important than scandal in the parish setting.
 
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MaryAgnes:
What a sticky situation … Believe it or not, but me thinks my Bishop has greater priorities than one invalidly married unlaicized priest with children that lectors at Sunday liturgies and his wife who is a catechist! :banghead:
He could have gotten married in the Church, had he previously sought and received laicization. But, he “doesn’t believe in laicization.” (Kind of like me telling the highway patrol that I “don’t believe in speed limits.”)

I can recall some instances of priests during the late '60’s, who, having found some woman they wanted to marry, wrote to the bishop or even the pope requesting permission to marry, but not wanting to be laicized. Those requests were, of course, denied. At that point, their choices were to get married without laicization, thereby placing themselves outside the Church, or to seek laicization and get married in the Church.
 
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ByzCath:
So that means you haven’t contacted your bishop?

I can not think of much else that is more important than scandal in the parish setting.
No, I haven’t contacted my Bishop. 😦 If I register this violation I am sure I’ll pay the consequences at the parish level.
 
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MaryAgnes:
No, I haven’t contacted my Bishop. 😦 If I register this violation I am sure I’ll pay the consequences at the parish level.
And? We must pray for the courage to do what is right. And if we do what is right (in this case, bringing the situation to the attention of the Bishop) we then suffer consequences, such as being ostracised (sp?), or otherwise looked down upon, we are simply suffering like Jesus did. It will be part of your Purgatory on earth.

Courage. Do not ignore the situation. It is a grave scandal. Even if the Bishop ignores it, you will have done what is right.
 
Mike Dye:
At this point in my life I have all I can do to come to grips with my own sins let alone worring about the sins of others.
Mike
The thing is, Mike, is that even Jesus and St. Paul won’t let you (or anyone) off the hook this easy.

In the gospels and in the epistles, Jesus and St. Paul both say that if you see someone in your midst that is openly sinning and scandalizing the faithful, then you are obligated to correct them. If they do not repent, then as Jesus says in St. Matthew Chapter 8, you must treat them as a heathen and a publican.

No, the church must do something about this matter, if only for the benefit of this priest and his family’s eternal souls.
 
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MaryAgnes:
No, I haven’t contacted my Bishop. 😦 If I register this violation I am sure I’ll pay the consequences at the parish level.
And the problem with that would be? Perhaps if three or four of you present this to the bishop, with as much documentation as you can gather, the case will not only be more credible but less “ignore-able.”

If this fellow was a diocesan priest in your diocese, he might still fall under the office that handles that, so be sure to copy that office and your parish priest on any correspondence with the bishop. Your pastor must feel pretty hemmed in by the situation and might be glad to have your support if you include him on your team.

Anyway, game it out with a couple of other people and think through all the ramifications before you act. Be ready for any contingency and try to be as positive as you can, although that will certainly not be easy.
 
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MaryAgnes:
No, I haven’t contacted my Bishop. 😦 If I register this violation I am sure I’ll pay the consequences at the parish level.
Are you certain you want to be involved in a Parish which allows this ?

What sort of a Spiritual leader is a man who would allow these people to be lay ministers in his Parish?

They are certainly not good Catholics, even if they appear to be good people in other ways.

True, let he who is without sin cast the first stone, but what are we teaching our children? I do not judge anyone, but the law for lay ministers is that they must live lifestyles in accordance with the laws of the Church. I certainly would not deny them Holy Communion, but I would definitely not allow them to be ministers in any Parish where I was Pastor.

Dove
 
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