Unliveable

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OHMark

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Hi, all.

I am not sure where a situation like mine belongs, so I will write of it under spirituality.

My life right now (I am a 47 year old man) is in complete turmoil. I am a recent revert after nearly 19 years away from the Church. I found a depth of spirituality that I never had before, even when I was very religious and faithful early in life.

I became very involved in my parish very quickly. Then, two months ago, the sins of my past caught up with me. I am now estranged from my parish, or any parish. This was very difficult at first, but after a few days of despair, I felt called back to God. I grew in faith again, even to the point of finding joy in my horrible predicament and even facing the possibility of prison (which is still unknown at this point).

That changed yesterday, however. I realized that there are two ways to live this life, which all of you of faith understand: live for this world, or live for the Kingdom of God. My realization is that I cannot live in either world. I am rejected by this world, and can only live in the realm of faith if nobody knows the truth about me.

I have taken solace in the past from the knowledge that some of the greatest saints were first the greatest of sinners. Also, I believed the concept that God never gives us a challenge that we cannot handle with his grace. Right now, I don’t believe that’s true. This is a burden I cannot bear, even with an abundance of his grace. Just two days ago I felt overwhelmed by him, filled with his Holy Spirit and subduing my will to that of Jesus. Today I know even that is not enough. He has given me a cross that I cannot carry, even with his help.

Perhaps there are some of us where Satan is just destined to win.
 
You were probably over-involved in your parish which is an extra, rather big adjustment. (I’m a believer in “under-promise, and just about deliver”. 😉 ) They will now have the opportunity to develop other talented people!

Maybe your throwing yourself in over-much was a repeat of your going to seminary earlier.

It’s great to be an ordinary Christian, half way between anything.

Now about these other things.

Do very ordinary things, on an hour by hour basis. Don’t let the basics lag behind - keep clean, pay bills, sleep well. Boring but wholesome company to do a hobby with is very good. Say an Our Father or two for someone in need.

Your insight of two days ago was probably quite good.

If you make yourself keep calm, you will probably be more likely to remain in reach of relatively good sense much of the time!
 
OHMark said:
Hi, all.

I am not sure where a situation like mine belongs, so I will write of it under spirituality.

My life right now (I am a 47 year old man) is in complete turmoil. I am a recent revert after nearly 19 years away from the Church. I found a depth of spirituality that I never had before, even when I was very religious and faithful early in life.

I became very involved in my parish very quickly. Then, two months ago, the sins of my past caught up with me. I am now estranged from my parish, or any parish. This was very difficult at first, but after a few days of despair, I felt called back to God. I grew in faith again, even to the point of finding joy in my horrible predicament and even facing the possibility of prison (which is still unknown at this point).

That changed yesterday, however. I realized that there are two ways to live this life, which all of you of faith understand: live for this world, or live for the Kingdom of God. My realization is that I cannot live in either world. I am rejected by this world, and can only live in the realm of faith if nobody knows the truth about me.

I have taken solace in the past from the knowledge that some of the greatest saints were first the greatest of sinners. Also, I believed the concept that God never gives us a challenge that we cannot handle with his grace. Right now, I don’t believe that’s true. This is a burden I cannot bear, even with an abundance of his grace. Just two days ago I felt overwhelmed by him, filled with his Holy Spirit and subduing my will to that of Jesus. Today I know even that is not enough. He has given me a cross that I cannot carry, even with his help.

Perhaps there are some of us where Satan is just destined to win.
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I think, today, your being blinded by a heavy burden. The world does not reject you, neither does God.
 
OhMark,

Hope springs eternal!

Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you with a love you cannot even imagine. Hang on to that!

Place yourself in our Blessed Mother’s heart.

Peace and all good to you!

Dorothy
 
You say that you may be facing prison due to the sins of your past catching up with you. You also wonder that God won’t give you what can’t endure without His grace. That does not mean that He will keep you safe from harm. Remember that many of the early Christians and many today were martyred.

So what does it mean? It means that God stands ready to give you the spritual strength to endure your cross for His glory. If you go to prison you have to ask for the strength to endure day by day. You have to ask him to help you make right judgments and choose right path, even in prison. We can pray that it doesn’t come to that but if you have faith you have to know that Jesus and His holy saints and Angels will be with you every day and every hour to strengthen you, for His glory. You have to remember that whatever comes it is for His glory and you have to give Him His glory every day. There are many ways to do this and some are quieter than others but each day is sufficient to itself and you should pray for the strength to endure each day as it comes. Satan is not destined to win anything. He only gets what we give him. Try reading Job. It might help.
 
OHMark said:
Hi, all.

He has given me a cross that I cannot carry, even with his help.

/QUOTE]

I honestly cannot agree with the above statement, you are lacking in faith.
Christ would never leave you nor would He ever give you a cross that you cannot carry.
All He requires is a speck of faith and an ounce of trust, do that and He will turn it around for you as He did for me. If you cannot carry the cross then you are misunderstanding what He is trying to do for you which happens easily enough as I have been there myself.

Maybe you are unwilling but dont give up on HIM, He will never give up on you. Pass your will over to Him, many times I felt it hard to just let go and let God` but once you do, He will amaze you no matter what your circumstances.

Nothing shall tear me from His hand for His hands are the greatest hands this world has ever known. His hands are the hands that were pierced to pay the purchase price for your soul and He did not stop there. He is still hearing and answering prayers and the time draws near to His return. Praying for you.
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Thank you all for the words of encouragement. truthquester, It is a matter of faith, yes. However, even giving him every moment of each day isn’t enough. I will not list all of the ways I give him honor and praise and how much time I spend with him each day because it is not appropriate to do so. However, please know it is constant.

I am sure I am not expressing this as well as I should because it is difficult to describe. I felt peace, trust and even joy in the midst of where I am in this life, with all of the trials of my own making and those of pure circumstance, but only through complete surrender, being dead to self and living only for Christ Yesterday, though, during my holy hour, I realized that I no longer belong. I am no longer welcome. Here is how it feels: even when I stay rooted in the realm of God’s Kingdom, it seems that no one else is there. Out of necessity, everyone else lives in this world with their eyes on the Kingdom to come. Whether faithful laity, priests or bishops, everyone’s faith is tempered by the fear that comes with living in this world. This is why I am unable to belong to any parish. My love of his Church is such that I could never belong knowing I could bring shame to them by my membership.

I found a new spiritual director and saw him a few weeks ago. His biggest concern for me was a lack of community, and he is right. His belief was that the parish I gave so much of my life to should be the ones lifting me up right now. That is a correct belief, if we all lived for the Kingdom and not for the world, but the reality is that everyone lives in this world and allows their fears to override their faith. dancny, I honestly believed that God will get me through anything of this world that happens. That is part of surrendering to his will, but am I really meant to do it on my own, with only the Trinity and no one else? Based on his teaching, I do not believe that is the way it is supposed to work.

I am not sure if I am making any sense at all. What I do know is that yesterday during adoration, I knew that my life at the parish I love so dearly is now over. I cannot go back.
 
OHMark said:
… My love of his Church is such that I could never belong knowing I could bring shame to them by my membership.

I found a new spiritual director and saw him a few weeks ago. His biggest concern for me was a lack of community, and he is right. His belief was that the parish I gave so much of my life to should be the ones lifting me up right now. That is a correct belief, if we all lived for the Kingdom and not for the world, but the reality is that everyone lives in this world and allows their fears to override their faith. …

I am not sure if I am making any sense at all. What I do know is that yesterday during adoration, I knew that my life at the parish I love so dearly is now over. I cannot go back.
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You don’t need to tell us what your parishioners, pastor and parish officials have told you, if you don’t want to. You need to put it in God’s hands as to whether He should send company into your life of an appropriate kind, or not.

Other people’s “fears” are their affair. But their decisions about their relationship with us can pave the way for our opportunities regarding the next phase of our lives.

I think it’s far better, in ordinary circumstances, to have a low-key expectation of what you can do for any parish and what any parish can do for you.

Does your spiritual director realise you need to stop having these ups and can he help you be level?

It’s best to keep saying occasional Our Fathers for people in need and concentrate on doing very ordinary things hour by hour. Simple hobbies can occupy us wholesomely.
 
Good morning. I should give you an update.

Though I need to go to confession for doubting God, breaking the greatest commandment, he has brought me back once again.

As I awoke this morning, I had his peace again, and I realized my path forward is the same as it has always been: complete surrender. I was hung up on my own vision of what that would mean. Basically, I assumed that my faith community here would be with me through it. I now realize that I will make it, letting Jesus carry me, regardless of whether I get support from others.

There will be some individuals who reach out along the way, undoubtedly, but visions of my fellow parishioners reaching out in support must be put to rest. It simply isn’t going to happen. I should not expect repayment for the good I have done in the past for them, in the name of Jesus.

So, God will carry me forward as long as I mean every word of the Prayer of Abandonment.

Thank you all and God bless you.

Mark
 
Vic_Taltrees_UK said:
I think it’s far better, in ordinary circumstances, to have a low-key expectation of what you can do for any parish and what any parish can do for you.

Does your spiritual director realise you need to stop having these ups and can he help you be level?
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Thank you, Vic. I must respectfully disagree somewhat. You are right about tempering expectations on what the parish will do for me (not can, but will). However, we are called by God to carry with us the zeal and fervor provided by the Holy Spirit. One of the problems in the Catholic Church today is that many of the faithful do not bring the kind of passion to their parishes that the Holy Spirit wants to provide! As for me, I will continue to dedicate as much time, talent and treasure as I possibly can for the building of his Kingdom, through his Holy Church.

Even in today’s Morning Prayer, one of the petitions is:
At the beginning of this day fill our hearts with zeal for serving you,
— so that our thoughts and actions may redound to your glory.

I say Amen!

Secondly, I am unsure what you mean about “stop having these ups.” The ups are the only thing to live for. I do seek to “be level”, but the level I seek is as constantly UP as possible 😃 While my pragmatic side says, “you cannot have ups without downs,” my faith tells me it is possible. Jesus commanded us to be people of joy, so I will seek to be joyful as much as I can.

Thank you very much for your prayers and insights. I do appreciate them.

Mark
 
I would focus on how my perception of other human’s respect had shaped my life. A extended time of silence with this theme will do much good, if you had a guide to supplement the retreat (perhaps a trappist monk to talk to). I see this is not a complete explanation of how human respect can lead us to subject our bodies into a reign of sin, but a mature trappist monk would be a big help for you in this respect.

But keep in mind what S. Thomas Aquinas said, “To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.”
 
Sounds like a bit of a Dark Night of the Soul there, Mark.

Those feelings of abandonment by people who you expected to stand with you will probably come around again at some point, and with a vengeance.

Reminds me of one the last seven words of Jesus on the cross. “My God, My God why have you forsaken me?” From time to time, I think a lot of us enter into this feeling of isolation and abandonment, sometimes especially during extremely difficult situations. It feels as if you are the only Catholic in the whole world and God Himself has turned His face away from you.

Even though it doesn’t seem like it, those times are beneficial to us. In “The Imitation of Christ” there is a section that talks about the removal of all sense of consolation and all external support during trials. He calls it akin to being “under the lash”. It isn’t a punishment. It is designed to show us who we really are during difficulties, what we really think when things are not going the way we think they should, and how we really behave when not surrounded with many spiritual consolations. It also gives us the chance to be faithful, by grace, during crisis regardless of how our emotions feel and regardless of what the future may hold. Were He to strip away every friend, every Catholic presence, your every natural freedom, and every natural hope, would you still love Him? That’s not my question to you, but it seems to be the question that God asks of each and every one of us to some degree at some point in our lives.

Grace is always available, but there is a vast difference between the grace of consolation (the warmth of the Love of God for our souls) and the graces that we need in order to function as Catholics struggling through difficulty. We will sometimes feel the abandonment of the Cross. He showed us what we would have to go through in order to make our way to Him. Through many trials and hardships do we enter into Eternity. That’s real, and it’s hard.

I’m not judging your situation or your soul. I’ve had my own experiences akin to this. There is one that is of similar magnitude, judging from your description. All of our sins will be paid for, one way or the other. Our Lady is our great refuge. She is called “Refuge of sinners” for a reason. Like the few designated cities in the Old Testament to which criminals could flee to save their lives, so she is for us. She absolutely will help you. Whether or not she will obtain the remission of temporal punishment due to your sins (and good Catholic friends to accompany you along the way), I have no idea. Maybe she will. Maybe not. More importantly, she will mother your soul during this difficulty. Ask her for the grace to face this lonely trial with joy, and if not joy, than at least with faith and an enduring love for God (and for her!). Hardship would not be allowed unless it were for the good of your soul.

All things really do work for the good of them that love God. It sounds tritely pious. It’s not trite. We wouldn’t need that kind of reassurance if in every situation we were bathed with the consolations of God and surrounded with loving Catholics. No, we are sometimes bathed in desolation when our human minds would think that we most need consolation. His ways are not our ways.

You say that your life in that parish is over? Why? It seems as if you are perfectly placed to continue to be a loving presence for people who do not love you like you think they should. It sounds like a very real opportunity to seek the grace of God through the intercession of the Glorious and Blessed Virgin so that you can love men and women who have not loved you, so that you can be like Him who called your soul into being and loved you when you did not love Him. As He hung on the Cross, He was abandoned by all except His most pure Mother and the disciple whom He loved, yet even to the point of death, His love did not fail. By grace through the Most Sacred Heart, your heart could become a river of forgiveness flowing into an ocean of mercy. By grace, in your trial, you could pour yourself out for those who have not loved you as they should. That is such a wonderful thought! But, your spiritual director is better placed to advise you than any of us are.

His life must be reproduced in each of us, and it hurts.

Prayers for you. Pray for me, too. Thanks.
 
COLOS said:
… In “The Imitation of Christ” there is a section that talks about the removal of all sense of consolation and all external support during trials. He calls it akin to being “under the lash”. It isn’t a punishment. It is designed to show us who we really are during difficulties, what we really think when things are not going the way we think they should, and how we really behave when not surrounded with many spiritual consolations. It also gives us the chance to be faithful, by grace, during crisis regardless of how our emotions feel and regardless of what the future may hold. Were He to strip away every friend, every Catholic presence, your every natural freedom, and every natural hope, would you still love Him? That’s not my question to you, but it seems to be the question that God asks of each and every one of us to some degree at some point in our lives.

…
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I’m there as well, at the moment - even though I have truth to tell some consolations!

No doubt it serves me right to have the wind put up me!
 
OHMark said:
I am sure I am not expressing this as well as I should because it is difficult to describe.
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It sounds to me like you have a little bit of depression and you are caught up in what you think is “supposed to” happen and it’s sometimes a little hard to face when we find our peers will not pick us up like we expect. I too have experienced moments of despair but in spite of all that, God still picked me up, dusted me off and never gave up on me, even when I gave up on myself so from one who has been there, don’t give up on Him. What He will do will amaze you., He laid down His life for us and He didn’t stop there. He still hearing and answering prayers and is always with us especially in our darkest hours.

I had to rely on Him completely and forget about all of the others and my world changed completely. All I want to do is dance and sing most days, He loves us so much that our human minds cannot even begin to comprehend, we are not citizens of this world and we should not follow its ways because it always leads to misery. We are citizens of heaven and let His grace be sufficient. (that means don’t look to the others to lift you up, let Him do it)

Do not give up on Him my friend, He knows what you require before you even know it yourself and if the Lord is quiet it is because He knows that’s what you need. Like a butterfly that is breaking out of it’s cacoon, keep the faith and you will have more than enough strength to break through and soar before you know it. He Loves you and that is a guarantee. Don’t be afraid to tell Him how you feel. Praying for you. 🙂
 
animalis said:
I would focus on how my perception of other human’s respect had shaped my life. A extended time of silence with this theme will do much good, if you had a guide to supplement the retreat (perhaps a trappist monk to talk to). I see this is not a complete explanation of how human respect can lead us to subject our bodies into a reign of sin, but a mature trappist monk would be a big help for you in this respect.

But keep in mind what S. Thomas Aquinas said, “To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.”
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Thank you. I believe I actually have been called to make a retreat, and a long one at that. I have mentioned to my Spiritual Director as well as a good Priest friend of mine, who lives out of state, the thought of a 21 day retreat. No outside world. They both thought it would be a good idea, but I admit it scares me.

Then again, it could also be good preparation for what may lie ahead.

Thanks again.
 
Wow. I am touched deeply by what you have so eloquently written. I read your response the day that you posted it, but wished to let it sink in and re-read it before responding. Everything you stated is very correct, and it does help to know that someone understands. One clarification is that I do not feel abandoned by the Lord, unless I go to that dark place where I allow the world to overwhelm me. In fact, I have felt an even greater presence and consolation than ever most of the time.

In the past, I have always reached out to Jesus, and occasionally to Mary when it seemed Jesus was asleep in the boat. However in the past couple of weeks, I have heard the Father remind me that he chose me before the world began, as he has all of us. I also began watching videos from thewildgooseisloose.com, which was recommended by my spiritual director. I have been through several segments now, and it has brought me much closer to the Holy Spirit. I am not sure if you’ve ever practiced allowing your own spirit to go docile so that the Holy Spirit can be before your own spirit, but it’s pretty amazing. So, our Lord does bless me quite often with great consolation.

What happened when I originally posted this thread was two-fold. First, I had an event that drastically pulled me, heart and mind, back into the worldly life. When I went to adoration I realized how worldly that event was. Then, toward the end of that adoration hour was when I just knew that my life at that parish was over. That realization is what sent me reeling to the point of writing my initial post. In truth, my exit from my parish was originally my own choice, after discussion with my pastor. You see, I am completely in love with and totally devoted to Christ’s Holy Church, and I also love that parish as my own family. My past sins which have come to haunt my present, may cause shame and embarrassment for the parish that I love. Having no wish for that to happen, I chose to back away with the advice of my pastor.

That was now over three months ago. Since then, I was struck by this article catholicnewsagency.com/news/jesus-closeness-to-sinners-isnt-a-scandal-its-an-example-pope-says-50215/ in which Pope Francis spoke about the meaning of the Good Shepard. After that is when I met with my new spiritual director who expressed concern about having a lack of community in my life. I think I allowed these things to influence me into feeling bad that my parish family had not reached out to comfort or console me.

Now, I am facing the fact and coming to accept that the vast majority of the world, including a great number of the faithful, and even local parts of the church itself respond in fear rather than faith. Faith versus fear really is the theme of my life, for myself, and now I see also in the world around me. I am learning, by God’s grace and mercy, to choose faith over fear more and more. It allows me to even be a person of great joy in spite of my situation! Now perhaps the lesson is to understand that others often choose fear over faith.

You asked why I believe that I cannot return to my parish. First of all, there is still the possibility of scandal in the future, and I do not wish to put them through that. (In fact, this is also currently preventing me from getting close in any other parish. I continue to be a Catholic nomad, popping into daily and Sunday Mass at various parishes.) In addition, the pastor has told me even if I did come back, it would have to be in a minimum capacity: sacraments, bible study classes and the like. I would not be invited into any leadership roles. I am sure many who read this would understand what I mean when I explain that I have never been that sort of church goer in my life. If I am in, I am all in. I NEED to give myself completely; it is just the way God made me.

I have my next spiritual direction meeting on Thursday this week. I will ask the good Abbot his thoughts. It’s been a month since I saw him, and perhaps he will think differently with what’s happened since.

Again, thank you for your thoughts and your prayers. I have added you to my prayer list as well.

God bless you,

Mark
 
truthquester said:
It sounds to me like you have a little bit of depression and you are caught up in what you think is “supposed to” happen and it’s sometimes a little hard to face when we find our peers will not pick us up like we expect. I too have experienced moments of despair but in spite of all that, God still picked me up, dusted me off and never gave up on me, even when I gave up on myself so from one who has been there, don’t give up on Him. What He will do will amaze you., He laid down His life for us and He didn’t stop there. He still hearing and answering prayers and is always with us especially in our darkest hours.

I had to rely on Him completely and forget about all of the others and my world changed completely. All I want to do is dance and sing most days, He loves us so much that our human minds cannot even begin to comprehend, we are not citizens of this world and we should not follow its ways because it always leads to misery. We are citizens of heaven and let His grace be sufficient. (that means don’t look to the others to lift you up, let Him do it)

Do not give up on Him my friend, He knows what you require before you even know it yourself and if the Lord is quiet it is because He knows that’s what you need. Like a butterfly that is breaking out of it’s cacoon, keep the faith and you will have more than enough strength to break through and soar before you know it. He Loves you and that is a guarantee. Don’t be afraid to tell Him how you feel. Praying for you. 🙂
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Amen and thank you! By the grace of God, I am again in that place of trust in Him. You are absolutely correct, and it is what I (and everyone else) must focus on. It is possible to not just hope for His Kingdom, but to actually LIVE for that Kingdom in this world.

As I have re-read this thread, the two themes that shine forth are obvious and perfectly aligned. The choice is to either live for this world and act in fear, or live for His Kingdom and act in faith.

Many thanks,

Mark
 
So happy for you, 👍 suffering is an important part of life as it strengthens our character and allows us to see our need for His strength. Pray for me too my friend as sometimes I allow myself to give into despair as well. We all go through it from time to time and growth is never without pain.
 
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