Unloading The Unconscious

[Deus_tecum]

In some forms of quiet prayer it is said we pass through a process of unloading the unconscious. There can be physical symptoms in this regard. What I would like to know from anyone experienced in this type of prayer is the following:

1. Does unloading and corresponding symptoms only take place during the prayer period?
2. If the answer above is “No.”, can symptoms manifest physically for a longer period of time?
3. If the answer to #2 is “Yes.”, please explain what such a physical manifestation of unloading means, and how should one proceed.
   
   I’ve had 2 things come up as I became more earnest in practicing quiet prayer, and both of them are unusual for me. First was a soreness on one side in the neck near my throat when I swallowed, and an overall slight tension on that same side (not the heart attack symptom kind; please rule that out). Second is an outbreak of what appears to be mild hives. I have never had hives before.
   
   I would appreciate answers from those experienced in this matter. This thread should not become a debate about the type of prayer. Thanks in advance.

 

[Lady_Love]

I had a period of time where I listened to no radio, watched no t.v., and avoided people. During this time, I became aware of much of my unconscious thoughts and behaviors. I became like a silent observer. If I had any physical symptoms they were feeling as though my heart were breaking, stomach pains, and exhaustion. All I could do was breathe and repeat to myself a few things, “this too shall pass and God will never give you more than you can handle.” It lasted roughly two and a half years. I attended Mass every single day, it was just about the only thing I could accomplish in a day but I figured if I could attend Mass I had done something of infinite value, the rest was in God’s hands.

 

[RoseMary131]

In some forms of quiet prayer it is said we pass through a process of unloading the unconscious. There can be physical symptoms in this regard.

I’ve had 2 things come up as I became more earnest in practicing quiet prayer, and both of them are unusual for me. First was a soreness on one side in the neck near my throat when I swallowed, and an overall slight tension on that same side (not the heart attack symptom kind; please rule that out). Second is an outbreak of what appears to be mild hives. I have never had hives before.

I’ve never heard anything you are talking about. However, I would suggest you speak to a priest for those answers. I would advice you to see your doctor for your physical symptoms.

 

[Robert_Sock]

I’m not sure what is meant by ‘unloading the unconscious?’ From a psychological perspective, we must work though unconscious conflicts in order to be free from their evil effects.

 

[DBT]

The unloading of the unconscious is a term some modern writers use to roughly correlate to what St. John of the Cross describes as the passive nights. If I understand correctly, it tries to incorporate some aspects of psychology that was not very well defined in his time.

True passive trials are the fruit of infused contemplation … perhaps an extension or deeper form of what you describe as “quiet prayer.” And these trials are generally experienced during our “everyday life” and not so much at the time of prayer itself which, of course, is always marked by peace, quiet, delight etc (That is, when it’s truly infused). Further, the effects of these trials are interior and spiritual … not so much physical.

In the deep, interior silence of infused prayer, we are literally flooded with His light and presence. His touch in this prayer transforms us slowly over time to the deepest recesses of our soul … which, of course, includes our sub-conscious. The imperfections in our makeup that are hidden to us (and which must be removed for true union), I believe, “reside” in our sub-conscious. That’s why they are hidden to us.

And these imperfections, St. John of the Cross shows, must be pulled up by their very roots through God’s guiding hand. It is interesting to note that the final purification we undergo is that the “first movements” of our soul are purified of their natural imperfections. As St. John teaches, our instinctual response to situations is made pure … ie, the point before reason influences behavior. In other words, we never need to “correct” our words before we say them or our actions before we do them. We are properly ordered from the get-go. This, to me, is a clear sign the work infused prayer has on our sub-conscious.

That having been said, we are not “aware” of all this during the time of prayer … because if we were aware of these types of goings-on then our prayer truly wasn’t infused in the first place. Rather, we’d likely be engaging in some sort of meditative activity.

So we go about our daily lives and here we encounter our passively infused trials. In short, we find our little worlds rocked in ways large and small. Our opinions, preferences, notions, biases, hopes, dreams, likes, dislikes … all of these come under endless assault from the circumstances of the present moment. In short, our dealings with other people and the seemingly random circumstances of life. We are brought face-to-face with the realization we are not who we think we are.

All of this, of course, is meant to teach us docility to the Holy Spirit. And when we become docile … the trials abate.

Sorry for the rambling reply … hope something in here helps,
Dave

 

[DBT]

A (very) crude illustration …

St. Teresa shows that our soul is like an Interior Castle containing many, many rooms. And in the most interior room of all the King lives. Or as St. John of the Cross teaches, our soul has many centers … and in the deepest center of all lives the Indwelling Trinity.

Here, in this deepest center, we gaze upon (contemplate) the Divine Persons … though our view even there is obscured and veiled (dark night). You see, there is nothing but a thin pane of glass separating creature from Creator … but that pane is covered with all sorts of dirt and grime (imperfections). We are so close … yet so far away.

In silent prayer, Christ gently and lovingly polishes that pane of glass (purgative way) … though we are completely unaware of His action and initiative (the nature of the infused). Slowly, over time, bits and pieces of that crud break off and bubbles up from the inner room to the outer rooms (the imperfections of the sub-conscious now enter our conscious mind).

And there we are forced to deal with it. And the “dealing with it” is the stuff of passive trials (dark night of the soul).

But what is exceedingly difficult (and dark) at first becomes progressively easier over time as more and more grime is removed and the Light shines more fully through (illuminative way). Then, one happy day, our soul is finally and completely polished … and we realize we’ve been transformed in ways large and small. We no longer act upon our own power; rather He acts in us and through us. Our power is the very Light itself (unitive way).

In short, we are now the “new man.”

Dave

 

[Deus_tecum]

In silent prayer, Christ gently and lovingly polishes that pane of glass (purgative way) … though we are completely unaware of His action and initiative (the nature of the infused). Slowly, over time, bits and pieces of that crud break off and bubbles up from the inner room to the outer rooms (the imperfections of the sub-conscious now enter our conscious mind).
Dave

Thanks for your comments. They were very enlightening. I want to focus on the above paragraph as it seems closest to answering my questions. It does seem possible that bits and pieces that break off could come closer to the surface and manifest in physical symptoms prior to coming fully into consciousness.

 

[DBT]

Thanks for your comments. They were very enlightening. I want to focus on the above paragraph as it seems closest to answering my questions. It does seem possible that bits and pieces that break off could come closer to the surface and manifest in physical symptoms prior to coming fully into consciousness.

I recognize the way I presented my posts was different than what you probably read from Fr. Keating etc. He writes that this “unloading” is a phenomena that is part of prayer itself … one the “4 stages” I think he calls it. It is important to keep in mind that what he speaks of is best seen in the light of acquired contemplation … something far different than the infused contemplation of which I speak.

So whatever “rest” one might experience in quiet prayer (which is not the prayer of quiet) is a purely natural rest (ie, not supernatural). And whatever unexpected flow of thoughts (whether from the unconscious or not) that might come at that time is a natural result too. Perhaps what he speaks of has a soothing psychological effect … but it’s not the purgative transformation that the Saints speak of.

The important thing to keep in mind is that contemplation isn’t about experience (and Father is describing experience) … it’s about “no” experience. And that is why we don’t see the Saints and Doctors talk about the kinds of things Father does as happening at the time of prayer itself. Which is compounded by the physical aspects you mention … something really sounds amiss there.

To use St. Teresa’s analogy, we enter our cocoon (in silent prayer) as an ugly little silkworm … we emerge (perhaps years later) as a beautiful butterfly. God works on us in the depths of interior silence … but we are unaware of it. And our transformation comes about through our daily encounter with the circumstances of life. That is where we give our “yes” of consent to being molded into His likeness. To think that we are transformed through the simple release of “charged thoughts” at the time of prayer tends toward quietism, imo.

Blessings to you,
Dave

 

[Deus_tecum]

I recognize the way I presented my posts was different than what you probably read from Fr. Keating etc. He writes that this “unloading” is a phenomena that is part of prayer itself … one the “4 stages” I think he calls it. It is important to keep in mind that what he speaks of is best seen in the light of acquired contemplation … something far different than the infused contemplation of which I speak.

So whatever “rest” one might experience in quiet prayer (which is not the prayer of quiet) is a purely natural rest (ie, not supernatural). And whatever unexpected flow of thoughts (whether from the unconscious or not) that might come at that time is a natural result too. Perhaps what he speaks of has a soothing psychological effect … but it’s not the purgative transformation that the Saints speak of.

The important thing to keep in mind is that contemplation isn’t about experience (and Father is describing experience) … it’s about “no” experience. And that is why we don’t see the Saints and Doctors talk about the kinds of things Father does as happening at the time of prayer itself. Which is compounded by the physical aspects you mention … something really sounds amiss there.

To use St. Teresa’s analogy, we enter our cocoon (in silent prayer) as an ugly little silkworm … we emerge (perhaps years later) as a beautiful butterfly. God works on us in the depths of interior silence … but we are unaware of it. And our transformation comes about through our daily encounter with the circumstances of life. That is where we give our “yes” of consent to being molded into His likeness. To think that we are transformed through the simple release of “charged thoughts” at the time of prayer tends toward quietism, imo.

Blessings to you,
Dave

What stage are you in, if I may be so bold?

 

[DBT]

What stage are you in, if I may be so bold?

Honestly, I don’t know any Carmelites who analyze themselves that way. And if they did, they’d never share it

As the saying goes, it doesn’t matter where you’re at so long as you’re on the journey.

 

[Deus_tecum]

Honestly, I don’t know any Carmelites who analyze themselves that way. And if they did, they’d never share it

As the saying goes, it doesn’t matter where you’re at so long as you’re on the journey.

Interesting! It made sense after I gave it some thought, because it would be a prideful assertion of self and therefore counterproductive.

 

[TerryJT]

This is a fantastic thread! Very enlightening.

Thanks, gentlemen.