Unmarried Catholic school teacher, fired after pregnancy, will pursue legal action [CC]

[christopher_r]

If they side with the woman, then it sets the legal precedent that signed contracts mean absolutely nothing. One step closer to pure, unadulterated insanity in the US if that happens.

the question will be “is it a valid contract”

not all contract terms are allowed by law

 

[christopher_r]

I wonder how many other teachers at that school should be fired for not living a “catholic lifestyle?” But, lucky for them, they get to hide their sins. This woman does the right thing after doing the wrong thing and she loses her job and her income.

we probably can’t fire everyone who sins and have the school remain open.

Take for example birth control methodology.

it is well established that most Catholics use birth control methods that the church disagrees with using. If the standard is following all Catholic rules, we will be short a lot of teachers.

 

[christopher_r]

Jim, the examples you provided involve a teacher breaking the law, which is different. Also it has to do with actions done IN school not in one’s private life. I’m not saying that it was wrong to fire her, I just wonder why forgiveness can’t be an option in the same way Jesus offered forgiveness to the woman caught in adultery? I do, however, understand the importance of teachers being exemplary role models for students. Unfortunately many teachers are breaking their contracts without anyone knowing about it.

If her contract requires her to uphold a Catholic lifestyle, how does it distinguish between sins worthy of getting her fired vs sins not worthy of getting her fired? How many Catholic school teachers attend weekly mass? If not, is that worthy of being fired over? I’ve worked in the Catholic school system and can assure you that many teachers don’t care to go to Sunday mass.

we should ask those who took up rocks to stone her if they were without sin.

i suspect that again the rocks would be dropped and the stoners would slink away.

 

[Sarabande]

we probably can’t fire everyone who sins and have the school remain open.

Take for example birth control methodology.

it is well established that most Catholics use birth control methods that the church disagrees with using. If the standard is following all Catholic rules, we will be short a lot of teachers.

True. That said, if a teacher was open about his/her use of birth control or promoted the use of birth control in the classroom, I think those examples would leave a school no choice but to let the teacher go.

I understand pollynova’s point in which most sins can be hidden where no one, but the sinner(s) themselves, can know about it. A pregnancy can’t be hidden. Even a man who got a girl pregnant outside of wedlock can still hide his situation if it is kept secret from those in charge about what happened. I can see how hypocritical it can appear when it seems that only people whose sin is difficult to hide is fired.

In this particular instance, though, after more information has come out, it is obvious that the pregnancy was planned since this teacher is in a lesbian relationship and more-than-likely did not become pregnant the natural way. It wasn’t an “accident”. It didn’t happen during a lapse in judgment where passions got the best of them. The articles don’t talk about the teacher being remorseful for her actions. I doubt she is remorseful as she is openly choosing to live with her lesbian partner and raise a child with her.

What she, us or anyone else thinks about that aspect of the story means nothing. What is important is the fact that she is openly going against Church teaching on a couple things - homosexual relations and IVF. If the teacher isn’t willing to give up her sexual relationship with her partner and is still teaching at a Catholic school where parents want their children to learn about their faith and beliefs in morality, what does that say about the school? This would be the same if the teacher was straight and refused to stop having a sexual relationship with her boyfriend even after it came to light. That would be a lot of scandal happening and not good for the school environment… most importantly, not good for the children.

I can see a difference in allowing her to stay if she was remorseful and chose to live her life according to the laws of the Church. It could be a wonderful teaching moment and moment of compassion. As it seems right now with the information we have, it is not the case.

 

[bioethics1985]

This is just an informational question. Are teachers really describing the details of their sexual relationships in the classroom? I had a teacher in elementary school who became pregnant and never wore a wedding ring. I never thought twice about it. Turns out she was married, but I knew so little about her personal life and had no desire to know honestly. She attended mass (husband wasn’t Catholic). At the older levels, I could see the questions, but even then, I didn’t know whether many of my teachers in high school were married, living by themselves, living with a roommate etc. unless they talked about it openly or chose to wear a ring (and a few didn’t, especially in science classes where labs were involved). I would never have asked because I can’t say I was super interested. Just wondering if teachers are actually discussing details other than maybe explaining they sinned and repented at the upper levels. My Mom spent her whole career as a speech therapist in public grade schools and has never reported that any friends discussed their personal sexual lives with students. She was honestly shocked that kids would know so much info about their teachers.

 

[Sarabande]

This is just an informational question. Are teachers really describing the details of their sexual relationships in the classroom? I had a teacher in elementary school who became pregnant and never wore a wedding ring. I never thought twice about it. Turns out she was married, but I knew so little about her personal life and had no desire to know honestly. She attended mass (husband wasn’t Catholic). At the older levels, I could see the questions, but even then, I didn’t know whether many of my teachers in high school were married, living by themselves, living with a roommate etc. unless they talked about it openly or chose to wear a ring (and a few didn’t, especially in science classes where labs were involved). I would never have asked because I can’t say I was super interested. Just wondering if teachers are actually discussing details other than maybe explaining they sinned and repented at the upper levels. My Mom spent her whole career as a speech therapist in public grade schools and has never reported that any friends discussed their personal sexual lives with students. She was honestly shocked that kids would know so much info about their teachers.

I think what happens is that many more kids are much more sophisticated in their knowledge of information than they were when I was a kid or when most adults were children. I was always one of those kids who heard adult conversations whether at school, at home or in the public. It was when adults thought they were not being heard. I was able to be engulfed in play or talk while still being able to pay attention to what the adults were saying across the way, in the playground or in the next room. As a child, my bedroom was directly above our kitchen. I had very good hearing and I knew all about what was happening within the family or other things. I knew all about the fights and problems within the family that my parents tried to shield from us. I never repeated it to other people as I wasn’t that kind of person, but that knowledge, as well as other experiences made me see humanity in a much different light from my peers. In fact, a part of me was dark and depressive because I thought humanity was hopeless. It was my faith in God and the Church that kept me strong and hopeful. (So you could see how much my heart broke and faith was shaken when the abuse scandals came out.)

The other problem is that I do think that parents speak more openly in front of their children about these things than people did in the past. And even when I was a child and a teen, whenever any kid found out something about a teacher, it spread throughout the school like wildfire. It could have been rumor and not even the truth, but it became known very quickly amongst the kids and it would make them respect the teachers even less.

 

[bioethics1985]

I see. My Mom says I was a super intense child who was very immersed in whatever I was doing at the moment. If I was engaged in an intense game of kickball, I was completely focused. In high school, my only goal was to maximize my AP credits and college acceptances. You’re right that gossip is a problem. Selfishly, I didn’t bother to care unless I thought they might be changing the AP program . I sort of had one focus which was probably why I never really questioned these happenings. Now, I’m much more sensitive and in the know, but not back then! Other kids, however, have very different personalities.

 

[Sarabande]

I see. My Mom says I was a super intense child who was very immersed in whatever I was doing at the moment. If I was engaged in an intense game of kickball, I was completely focused. In high school, my only goal was to maximize my AP credits and college acceptances. You’re right that gossip is a problem. Selfishly, I didn’t bother to care unless I thought they might be changing the AP program . I sort of had one focus which was probably why I never really questioned these happenings. Now, I’m much more sensitive and in the know, but not back then! Other kids, however, have very different personalities.

You know, I do think there are lots of kids like you as well and there isn’t anything wrong with that. My brother will joke about how our experiences with the same thing were so much different. He says all he cared about was how much fun or boring an activity would be and what kind of food he was going to get at his next meal and then he had this older sister who was constantly thinking about the implications of things if she engaged in a certain activity and was constantly worried about the welfare of society and the environment. I was a strange duck in a peer’s eyes. We were just two different personalities as children and nothing wrong with either.

 

[Elizium23]

we probably can’t fire everyone who sins and have the school remain open.

Take for example birth control methodology.

it is well established that most Catholics use birth control methods that the church disagrees with using. If the standard is following all Catholic rules, we will be short a lot of teachers.

Let’s use the standard set in Canon 915 for denial of Holy Communion. The person must obstinately persist in manifest grave sin. Now perhaps the bar isn’t quite so high for the contracts we are concerned about, but it isn’t as low as you say it is either. In order for a contract violation to occur, the teacher would have to make her sin publicly known in some way. Using contraception is generally a private sin between you, your partner, and your pharmacist. Even attempting IVF can be private until it becomes manifest in a pregnancy. There is no hiding a pregnancy and so that is the essential difference that matters when considering the employment contract. The standard is not merely about following “all Catholic rules”, it is about preventing the sin of scandal, and protecting the good name of the school and the Church from damage by people who think they can do whatever they want and get away with it and still keep their good job.

On a related note, I have a question for those who oppose the right of the school to fire sinners such as this: how do you feel about the right of Mozilla Firefox to force out Brendan Eich? He resigned on his own, but with activist outcry and boycotts impending he seemed to have little choice. Would you also argue in favor of him retaining his position?

 

[cephas777]

In answer to the question about salaries: Yes, when I started teaching at this same school 23 years ago my starting salary was $10,400.00 per year. After 23 years, I am now making around $27,000.00 per year. It’s true!!!

See, I struggle with that first position. As I find it hard to argue that what it amounts to isn’t just a discriminatory termination for pregnancy outside of marriage. If we say it truly was for premarital sex, that argument could only reasonably be supported if there were a near equal number of terminations for men as well, in addition to woman who were not pregnant. That’s certainly not the case though.

If we argue that’s because the others are hard to prove, or that it’s the apparent visible nature of the transgression. Than it completely becomes a matter of being pregnant outside of marriage, and not about premarital sex. Which could really be argued as a highly sexist and discriminatory practice.

What’s more though is that our country is generally ranked near dead last in the world, alongside such bastions of caring as Sierra Leone and Burma for the rights of pregnant woman and new mothers. While it may technically be illegal to not hire her for a new position based on her being pregnant, the practice is rampant with statistical evidence. Additionally, when her child comes due, as she would not qualify for FMLA due to having not worked for the aforementioned company for the pats year - it will be completely legal for a new company which did hire her, to terminate her employment upon delivering the child.

Shouldn’t fret? Do you believe she’ll be able to afford Cobra? She’ll have to fall on government medical assistance, if possible. Might as well say goodbye to any savings.

If you truly believe that she’ll be able to earn 2.5-3x her salary by teaching elsewhere, that implies unimaginable self-sacrifice and benevolence from her towards the school! Which is rewarded by personal devastation, under the pretense of punishing a statistically significant common practice both outside and even within the church.

That’s not even touching on the long drawn out practice of finding employment in another public or private school. A process which can often take six months to a year. A process which will likely cause her to uproot and move to where ever there is an open position, losing any social-family-church structure she’ll likely need to assist her as a single - parent.

As to the salary statements, you may be shocked but I can’t even see how that statement is plausible. New public school teachers frequently make ghastly low wages, even less than $30k a year in some cases. So are you saying some parochial schools have professional full time teacher salaries of $10-20k a year? Yet we’re going to hold them to a level of accountability, which we don’t hold parishioners or even arguably priests too? This just makes no sense to me, please explain what I’m missing. I’m just not grasping this issue apparently. Thank you.

 

[cephas777]

First of all, I teach at the Catholic High School here.

I see a lot of rock throwing here. I think everyone first of all has to remember that we are all sinners and not one of us if perfect. Mary was sinless and Jesus.

Every Bible quote can have another quote from the Bible used against it.

The fact of the matter is: do you people know the WHOLE story? More than likely not. I didn’t read every post here before having to write my reply to such silly posts as I have seen. We are all created by God. We are all sinners. We best keep that in mind when we start judging. We must love the sinner but hate the sin.

In regards to this teacher: Yes, she violated her contract. However, she could have been put on maternity leave until the end of the school year or until she had her baby (which she did. It’s a boy). Since all of us are on yearly contracts, then her contract could have just not been renewed. There would have been no scandal. None of you would have known about this either. BUT, as it were, some people have to play God and have to put the “hammer” down because they have “authority.” Read between the lines here!!!
That would have been the more prudent and more Christian way of handling this from an employer view point.

She did not sleep around. There are other ways of becoming pregnant. Again, read between the lines. Yes, those other ways are forbidden by the Church.

The conversation about this should really be stopped.

I hope and pray that we are forgiving of others, are compassionate, treat people justly and with mercy at all times and love all people with the love of God. It doesn’t mean we allow sin or turn a blind eye. Let it be known that within this same school there have been others who have had adulterous relationships and there was no reprimand. Let it also be known that there have been repercussions for teachers who teach Church teaching on divorce and remarriage, the ACT of homosexuality, etc. etc.

So, until we know the WHOLE story, we should be very very careful passing judgments!!

 

[cephas777]

Excuse me. So since she is not Catholic, is a lesbian, and is living with another woman (I haven’t spied in her windows to know if she is actively engaged in a homosexual lifestyle), it makes it even more right to ill treat her? Let’s love with the love of Jesus. Love sinner and hate the sin. Let’s pray for one another. Compassion!!! Are you already condemning this woman to hell? I hope not!!

Contrite? Would a contrite person sue the school?

We know that she is not Catholic, that she is a lesbian, that she is in a same-sex union with her lesbian lover. The early news stories on this omitted mentioning that. We know that this was not a crisis pregnancy but a planned manufacturing of a baby that will grow up without a father.

The Diocese of Helena was right to fire Shaela Evenson

 

[GraceSofia]

I see a lot of rock throwing here.
… I didn’t read every post here before having to write my reply to such silly posts as I have seen.

In regards to this teacher: Yes, she violated her contract. However, she could have been put on maternity leave until the end of the school year or until she had her baby (which she did. It’s a boy). Since all of us are on yearly contracts, then her contract could have just not been renewed. There would have been no scandal.

She was fired January 10th and the baby was born March 7. Given those dates, your idea is not workable. Why should she have a paid leave for more than half the school year when she broke her contract? If the baby were to have been due in August, then, yes, she probably could have finished the school year and not been rehired.

The conversation about this should really be stopped.

Well, the thread had died 5 days ago until you resurrected it.

Excuse me. So since she is not Catholic, is a lesbian, and is living with another woman (I haven’t spied in her windows to know if she is actively engaged in a homosexual lifestyle), it makes it even more right to ill treat her?

Whoah there. You are adding your own words and ideas. Another poster asked if she were contrite and others have wondered if she just got carried away one night, etc, etc. I responded as I did because I am not sure contrition and repentance in the Catholic meaning come into play when dealing with non-Catholics. The fact that she is a lesbian means that it wasn’t just a one-time sin (so to speak) but an ongoing same-sex relationship with a planned manufacturing of the baby. That’s why it was pertinent to the discussion, which you admitted you had not read completely.

Are you already condemning this woman to hell? I hope not!!

No. We were discussing the right of the school to fire her when she broke her contract.

 

[cephas777]

She was fired January 10th and the baby was born March 7. Given those dates, your idea is not workable. Why should she have a paid leave for more than half the school year when she broke her contract? If the baby were to have been due in August, then, yes, she probably could have finished the school year and not been rehired.

Well, the thread had died 5 days ago until you resurrected it.

Whoah there. You are adding your own words and ideas. Another poster asked if she were contrite and others have wondered if she just got carried away one night, etc, etc. I responded as I did because I am not sure contrition and repentance in the Catholic meaning come into play when dealing with non-Catholics. The fact that she is a lesbian means that it wasn’t just a one-time sin (so to speak) but an ongoing same-sex relationship with a planned manufacturing of the baby. That’s why it was pertinent to the discussion, which you admitted you had not read completely.

No. We were discussing the right of the school to fire her when she broke her contract.

In regards to her being placed on maternity leave: It would have been more prudent regardless of when the baby was due to do this to avoid the scandal that has resulted and possibly to avoid paying out more money if a law suit is won by her. The woman in Ohio who won a similar case was awarded a lot more money than what her salary was. So, one could reasonably conclude prudently that if Shaela wins her lawsuit, she would get more money than her salary. The most important thing here would have been to avoid scandal. Doesn’t matter who is right or wrong basically. Avoid scandal and possibly paying out more money than a salary’s worth.

Not all homosexuals practice their homosexuality just as not all heterosexuals practice their sexuality. So we can’t conclude anything from the mere fact that she is lesbian.
Yes, in vitro had to have been planned. Not debating any of that because it speaks for itself.

“The letter of the law kills, but the spirit gives life.” If we want to talk about the “right of the school to fire her,” then we could also talk about the “right” of God to punish us all right now for the sins that all of us have committed. Just because some entity has a “right” doesn’t always mean that that “right” has to be exercised. Many times God Himself has chosen not to exercise His “right.” Magnanimity should always be practiced until such time as it can’t. In this case, magnanimity could have been practiced and should have been practiced. One day God’s magnanimity will turn to Justice for the sake of the innocent, but until such time, we, if we seek to be God-like, should practice the same magnanimity that God does. Mercy can and does go a long way in others becoming repentant and contrite of heart.
We are all sinners and hopefully we all think that our sins against He who created us are the worst sins there are because they offend He who is Love and all Powerful and IS. He loves us so much that He shows us Mercy and allows us to seek forgiveness. We also must love ourselves and others with His love even our enemies; even those we perceive to be sinners.
Yes, if we break our contract then we should expect nothing less than to not have our contracts renewed. But how that comes about is what we need to think about. We should not seek to “destroy” another in the rendering of this “right.” LOVE and showing magnanimity is the KEY!!
I don’t seek to “argue” in any way, shape, or form. I just want others to love and to act accordingly.
I hope and pray that this is understood. Above all we should pray for everyone involved and ask God to help them (if we truly care about mercy, truth, justice, and LOVE.)
God Bless us all!!