Unmarried Sex...Grave Sin?

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I met my fiance 17 months ago. I divorced 13 yrs ago after a bad marriage of 24 yrs. My ex was Catholic, I was not. Fiance divorced a couple years ago after years of mental and physical abuse. I attended the local parish a few times with fiance. Liked the mass, liked the people, wanted to know more about the Catholic Church. Started RCIA last September. This brought us to the attention of the Pastor. He questioned us and our plans. His final words to the two of us together was not to get married outside the church or he would not let her have communion. Of course we were intimate. I love her very much and would marry her today. If she gets married she loses her opportunity to get social security from her ex’s account. Therefore she doesn’t want to ever get married, at this point. She gave us sex with me for Lent. Now half way through Lent she says that we can never be intimate again because it’s a sin. She doesn’t understand I don’t want to be in a lifetime relationship without intimatcy. I say that the church is more understanding than that and our intimacy is not a grave sin. Sure the Pastor would be thrilled if we got annulments and married in the church (and I am willing) but he never said don’t have sex. He never said don’t live together. Is she wrong or am I? WE are both 56 and neither can have kids nor should we.
 
I met my fiance 17 months ago. I divorced 13 yrs ago after a bad marriage of 24 yrs. My ex was Catholic, I was not. Fiance divorced a couple years ago after years of mental and physical abuse. I attended the local parish a few times with fiance. Liked the mass, liked the people, wanted to know more about the Catholic Church. Started RCIA last September. This brought us to the attention of the Pastor. He questioned us and our plans. His final words to the two of us together was not to get married outside the church or he would not let her have communion. Of course we were intimate. I love her very much and would marry her today. If she gets married she loses her opportunity to get social security from her ex’s account. Therefore she doesn’t want to ever get married, at this point. She gave us sex with me for Lent. Now half way through Lent she says that we can never be intimate again because it’s a sin. She doesn’t understand I don’t want to be in a lifetime relationship without intimatcy. I say that the church is more understanding than that and our intimacy is not a grave sin. Sure the Pastor would be thrilled if we got annulments and married in the church (and I am willing) but he never said don’t have sex. He never said don’t live together. Is she wrong or am I? WE are both 56 and neither can have kids nor should we.
Sin isn’t justifiable by convenience or laws. If it is not within a valid Catholic marriage, it is gravely sinful. No two ways around it.
 
she loses her opportunity to get social security from her ex’s account - red flag there, she’s willing to place money before God, and that is what it’s about.

Sex outside of the marriage is a mortal sin, no exceptions to the rule.
 
she loses her opportunity to get social security from her ex’s account - red flag there, she’s willing to place money before God, and that is what it’s about.

Sex outside of the marriage is a mortal sin, no exceptions to the rule.
Indeed, nothing should come before God. Especially not money.
 
Sorry buddy, it’s not understanding. Y’ ain’t married, y’ don’t do it. No if’s, no but’s, no coconuts
 
From the CAtechism of the Catholic Church:

2353 Fornication is carnal union between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman. It is gravely contrary to the dignity of persons and of human sexuality which is naturally ordered to the good of spouses and the generation and education of children. Moreover, it is a grave scandal when there is corruption of the young.

I hope your love for each other will make you decide to set things aright in the eyes of God.
 
GreatWhiteBear—

Sometimes it is difficult to accept all of the Church’s teachings, especially all at once! My advice to you would be prayer. This is what I have done every time I have run up against the wall of my own beliefs versus the Church teachings. I have literally thrown my hands up in the air and said “Lord, please align my thinking with Your Will” and remained open. Every time I have done this, in very short order, I have read something or talked to someone that clarified what I was having problems with and brought my thinking into line with the Church. Do not despair if it takes awhile, just be open. We are not called to perfection. We are called to get back up and try again no matter how many times we fall down out of love for Him.

RCIA is a wonderful journey, I’m on it myself (can’t wait for Easter Vigil!).

Take care

Joshua
 
I met my fiance 17 months ago. I divorced 13 yrs ago after a bad marriage of 24 yrs. My ex was Catholic, I was not. Fiance divorced a couple years ago after years of mental and physical abuse. I attended the local parish a few times with fiance. Liked the mass, liked the people, wanted to know more about the Catholic Church. Started RCIA last September. This brought us to the attention of the Pastor. He questioned us and our plans. His final words to the two of us together was not to get married outside the church or he would not let her have communion. Of course we were intimate. I love her very much and would marry her today. If she gets married she loses her opportunity to get social security from her ex’s account. Therefore she doesn’t want to ever get married, at this point. She gave us sex with me for Lent. Now half way through Lent she says that we can never be intimate again because it’s a sin. She doesn’t understand I don’t want to be in a lifetime relationship without intimatcy. I say that the church is more understanding than that and our intimacy is not a grave sin. Sure the Pastor would be thrilled if we got annulments and married in the church (and I am willing) but he never said don’t have sex. He never said don’t live together. Is she wrong or am I? WE are both 56 and neither can have kids nor should we.
sex before marriage is grave matter, and a mortal sin. Marriage is a Sacrament and sex is part of this and that’s why it’s important the marriage is first blessed by God and the Church. I think it’s likely that both of you can get annulments… and then you can get married and receive Communion in the Church. But it’s also important to live chastely and practice abstinence till then. If your fiance does not want to get married because of the social security, that’s really something to talk to her about… I guess it’s a choice that she would have to make.

hope that helps… I know it might be difficult to hear. I agree with the above poster, definitely pray. God bless 🙂
 
I met my fiance 17 months ago. I divorced 13 yrs ago after a bad marriage of 24 yrs. My ex was Catholic, I was not. Fiance divorced a couple years ago after years of mental and physical abuse. I attended the local parish a few times with fiance. Liked the mass, liked the people, wanted to know more about the Catholic Church. Started RCIA last September. This brought us to the attention of the Pastor. He questioned us and our plans. His final words to the two of us together was not to get married outside the church or he would not let her have communion. Of course we were intimate. I love her very much and would marry her today. If she gets married she loses her opportunity to get social security from her ex’s account. Therefore she doesn’t want to ever get married, at this point. She gave us sex with me for Lent. Now half way through Lent she says that **we can never be intimate again because it’s a sin. ** She doesn’t understand I don’t want to be in a lifetime relationship without intimatcy. I say that the church is more understanding than that and our intimacy is not a grave sin. Sure the Pastor would be thrilled if we got annulments and married in the church (and I am willing) but he never said don’t have sex. He never said don’t live together. Is she wrong or am I? WE are both 56 and neither can have kids nor should we.
She is correct. Your priest cannot absolve you of that sin until he sees contrition and a resolve to correct your relationship, which means you either live as brother and sister, or get annulments and marry in the Church. Only if she has gone to Confession and you have stopped being intimate, and the priest is satisfied and has absolved her should she be receiving Communion. Otherwise, she should not be presenting herself for Communion. The same will be true of you
 
Neither of you are free to date (assuming both of your civilly divorced spouses are living).

Sex outside of a valid marriage is sin.

Coming back to Jesus in Confession is what you both need, then, to live a life of chastity according to your state in life - that includeds nixing romantic dating when you are not free to do so.

God is the only path to happiness.

Should you both someday be free to marry, then, you marry and get jobs and support yourselves - ex husband’s money would never be reason to sin.
 
I met my fiance 17 months ago. I divorced 13 yrs ago after a bad marriage of 24 yrs. My ex was Catholic, I was not. Fiance divorced a couple years ago after years of mental and physical abuse. I attended the local parish a few times with fiance. Liked the mass, liked the people, wanted to know more about the Catholic Church. Started RCIA last September. This brought us to the attention of the Pastor. He questioned us and our plans. His final words to the two of us together was not to get married outside the church or he would not let her have communion. Of course we were intimate. I love her very much and would marry her today. If she gets married she loses her opportunity to get social security from her ex’s account. Therefore she doesn’t want to ever get married, at this point. She gave us sex with me for Lent. Now half way through Lent she says that we can never be intimate again because it’s a sin. She doesn’t understand I don’t want to be in a lifetime relationship without intimatcy. I say that the church is more understanding than that and our intimacy is not a grave sin. Sure the Pastor would be thrilled if we got annulments and married in the church (and I am willing) but he never said don’t have sex. He never said don’t live together. Is she wrong or am I? WE are both 56 and neither can have kids nor should we.
According to the church it is a grave sin…I disagree though. You are going to have to make your own choices.
 
:rolleyes: duh.

Seems to me like the OP’s set up Money vs. Obedience.
Yes, in issues like this I would have to side against the church, but I’m not the best Catholic. So take that as you like. If you want to be a good Catholic, you should either get your marriages annulled and get married or you should not be intimate. If you don’t want to go through the hassle of doing that, you will be living in sin according to the Catholic church. That is the bottom line and it is up to you to figure out what you want to do.
 
This is really much less complicated than you make it out to be. Social Security benefits for widows is intended to be a safety net to prevent said widows from starving or being forced to marry for food rather than for love. The founders of it never expected people to come to consider it an entitlement and would have been horrified at the idea of someone refusing marriage to a beloved in order to keep the free money flow coming.

You and she are in love. The natural outcome for that is marriage. Do it. Surely, you can combine your incomes to achieve a total income that meets your needs? If she’s unwilling to do so, then she probably values the money more than you, move on.

The problem here isn’t a “heartless god.” It is a failure to prioritize values in life.
 
This is really much less complicated than you make it out to be. Social Security benefits for widows is intended to be a safety net to prevent said widows from starving or being forced to marry for food rather than for love. The founders of it never expected people to come to consider it an entitlement and would have been horrified at the idea of someone refusing marriage to a beloved in order to keep the free money flow coming.

You and she are in love. The natural outcome for that is marriage. Do it. Surely, you can combine your incomes to achieve a total income that meets your needs? If she’s unwilling to do so, then she probably values the money more than you, move on.

The problem here isn’t a “heartless god.” It is a failure to prioritize values in life.
Well said.
 
Please don’t attack me on this…I’m willing to get an annulment and will begin the process probably as early as next week. And I’d love to be married to her.

As for her, she is deathly afraid of her ex and doesn’t want any contact with him or him knowing anything about her life. But to get an annulment, someone somehow is going to try to contact him. You’d think that the priest’s own knowledge of that marriage and the abuse would be good enough.

Several of you come across as condemning me. I didn’t ask to be condemned, simply for personal opinions. Thank you.
 
Please don’t attack me on this…I’m willing to get an annulment and will begin the process probably as early as next week. And I’d love to be married to her.

As for her, she is deathly afraid of her ex and doesn’t want any contact with him or him knowing anything about her life. But to get an annulment, someone somehow is going to try to contact him. You’d think that the priest’s own knowledge of that marriage and the abuse would be good enough.

Several of you come across as condemning me. I didn’t ask to be condemned, simply for personal opinions. Thank you.
The tribunal liason in the parish should be involved in the discussion and understand any potential personal safety concerns related to contacting the ex and determining how best to proceed.
 
Please don’t attack me on this…I’m willing to get an annulment and will begin the process probably as early as next week. And I’d love to be married to her.

As for her, she is deathly afraid of her ex and doesn’t want any contact with him or him knowing anything about her life. But to get an annulment, someone somehow is going to try to contact him. You’d think that the priest’s own knowledge of that marriage and the abuse would be good enough.

Several
of you come across as condemning me. I didn’t ask to be condemned, simply for personal opinions. Thank you.
I am not sure if I am one of the ‘several,’ but I’d like you to re-read your OP:

I met my fiance 17 months ago. I divorced 13 yrs ago after a bad marriage of 24 yrs. My ex was Catholic, I was not. Fiance divorced a couple years ago after years of mental and physical abuse. I attended the local parish a few times with fiance. Liked the mass, liked the people, wanted to know more about the Catholic Church. Started RCIA last September. This brought us to the attention of the Pastor. He questioned us and our plans. His final words to the two of us together was not to get married outside the church or he would not let her have communion.* Of course we were intimate.** I love her very much and would marry her today.** If she gets married she loses her opportunity to get social security from her ex’s account. Therefore she doesn’t want to ever get married, at this point. *She gave us sex with me for Lent. Now half way through Lent she says that we can never be intimate again because it’s a sin. She doesn’t understand I don’t want to be in a lifetime relationship without intimatcy. I say that the church is more understanding than that and our intimacy is not a grave sin. Sure the Pastor would be thrilled if we got annulments and married in the church (and I am willing) but he never said don’t have sex. He never said don’t live together. Is she wrong or am I? WE are both 56 and neither can have kids nor should we.

“*** Of course we were intimate.***” This comes across as though you had no problem with sex outside marriage, and almost as if you had no other choice - like waiting until you were married.

"* If she gets married she loses her opportunity to get social security from her ex’s account. Therefore she doesn’t want to ever get married, at this point. *" If her marriage were as abusive as you say, why would she want any ties to her ex-husband, including financial ones? This sounds like money is the reason for not wanting an annulment, not the past abuses.

Our intent, as I understand from re-reading posts here, is to see you both do what is best for both of you. It sounds to me like you need to have further discussions with your priest, and with each other. Your only choices really are to live as brother and sister, or get the annulments and get married in the Church before you have sex again. You, as do all of us, need to have priorities in order. Money, and sex("She doesn’t understand I don’t want to be in a lifetime relationship without intimacy."), should not be at the top of the list. Sorry, but your OP does read that way. I am not making a judgment. Love means wanting the best for one another, which is to go to Heaven.
**
"You’d think that the priest’s own knowledge of that marriage and the abuse would be good enough." He wants what is best for both of you. In the eyes of God and the Church, you are both still married. Intimacy with each other is adultery. Your priest cannot simply ignore that, no matter what. He wants you both to be in a state of grace.

Trust me, I understand a difficult past marriage. You are in my prayers.

God bless.
 
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