Unnerving Our Father (hand holding) experience

[neophyte]

As a refugee from the Protestant Deformation, I greatly value the gift of the oportunity to submit to the rightful authority of Christ’s Church. I’ve had quite enough of running after some shmo’s innovations… including holding hands during the Our Father. It’s a liturgical act that is not called for in the rubrics, that seems to connote an erroneous theological idea, and that, as far as I can tell, is discouraged. Our unity exists through Christ, not from one to another.

If the Church enacts a change that mandates it, or allows the Bishop to do so and he does, then I’ll happily comply.

 

[maryjk]

With respect, why?

Since when are we supposed to either hold hands with no one, or hold with everyone?

Like I said, I don’t hold hands. Please keep that in mind.

And if someone shook hands with someone standing next to me, then REFUSED to shake hands with me, it might just give me pause. I just might be offended.

And keep in mind, he didn’t fold his hands and close his eyes, he refused…I wonder how he did that.

 

[sacred_words]

Don’t feel bad. I don’t hold hands with people either.

 

[clem456]

that seems to connote an erroneous theological idea…

Our unity exists through Christ, not from one to another.

This actually might be a good discussion starter. Wish I had the time.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

I think many here have lost the original post’s point.

He held hands with his mother, but refused to hold hands with the “older woman” next to him.

Sorry, but the problem isn’t hand holding, but how to hold hands only with those that you want to.

He upset the woman next to him. No kidding. Sorry, I don’t hold hands, but if someone shook hands with someone next to me, but refused to shake hands with me, I might just be a bit offended.

Agreed. I think if you are going to hold hands with the person on one side of you, you need to hold hands with the person on the other side if they offer you their hand. Otherwise, you appear rude. If your hands are folded and you’re holding no one’s hand, that is a different story.

 

[roveau]

Attended mass at a parish I usually do not frequent. During the Our Father the hand holding extending across the center aisle. My mom was sitting nearest the aisle and felt compelled to clutch the person’s hand across the aisle. I normally do not hold hands but couldn’t refuse my mom’s grasp. An older woman to my left moved close to me yet I refused her hand. Of course I got a stern look… Here’s the twist I didn’t expect- once the prayer was over everyone stood in place… I asked the lady to move over so my mom could get out of the aisle. She refused. Was somewhat flustered but eventually everyone went back to their spots after the sign of peace…told the woman that we dont hold hands in my parish. She looked at me like I was some type of alien… Anyway, just my story of yet another frustrating Our Father experience. Wish there would be a pronouncement on this issue so uniformity ensues

Some times it is better to go with the flow to keep the peace, as much as it may be against your own preference.

You obviously ticked-off the older woman who saw you hold hands with another woman (as it happened, your mother) during the Pater Noster. It was the custom in her church and you refused her hand… and then asked a favour of her! Even Catholics can get cranky, as this woman was.

There is a pronouncement on it, in effect, it is permissible to hold hands during the Pater Noster, and it is permissible not to hold hands. As you discovered there are consequences in your decision to refuse a lady her hand in her parish church.

 

[Seeker1961]

I think many here have lost the original post’s point.

He held hands with his mother, but refused to hold hands with the “older woman” next to him.

Sorry, but the problem isn’t hand holding, but how to hold hands only with those that you want to.

He upset the woman next to him. No kidding. Sorry, I don’t hold hands, but if someone shook hands with someone next to me, but refused to shake hands with me, I might just be a bit offended.

I think we’ve run around it a little-but the general point of those who say “no” is that we don’t care if you choose to hold hands with family and friends. We just don’t want to be forced to join you and we don’t want to deal with your comments about our lack of Christianity when we don’t .

Neither choice is morally superior.

 

[wondrousgnat]

I don’t reach out to hold hands. But if someone reaches to me then it is OK. To me I do not think of it as a big deal and I have no desire to offend good people during mass.

I am a little more positive when I see families hand holding.

 

[Daizies]

I think we’ve run around it a little-but the general point of those who say “no” is that we don’t care if you choose to hold hands with family and friends. We just don’t want to be forced to join you and we don’t want to deal with your comments about our lack of Christianity when we don’t .

Neither choice is morally superior.

 

[Pitcharan]

[edited]

Good grief…why is it SO important that we hold hands with everyone? Hold hands with your family and friends, nobody cares. Just don’t force others to do it or tell them how “unchristian” they are for not doing it.

To be expected to observe a community practice does not amount to ‘forcing’.

 

[Seeker1961]

Surely, why not? But if you find it disgusting to hold another’s hand, then it is due to lack of love.

To be expected to observe a community practice does not amount to ‘forcing’.

Wow…so now I don’t hold hands because I find it “disgusting”. Boy, I’m unchristian and I hate people because I don’t like holding hands at the Our Father.

Looking so far down your nose at others could cause you to walk into an open manhole. Better watch your step.

 

[maryjk]

I think we’ve run around it a little-but the general point of those who say “no” is that we don’t care if you choose to hold hands with family and friends. We just don’t want to be forced to join you and we don’t want to deal with your comments about our lack of Christianity when we don’t .

Neither choice is morally superior.

I would love to have been a fly on the wall when he refused. I, in effect, refuse every time I am at Mass. I fold my hands and close my eyes. Anyone sitting next to me, that wanted to hold hands would have to pull my hands apart or tap me to have me open my eyes.

I have never received a dirty look from anyone.

So, OP, how did you refuse? Did you say anything? Just give a look? Shake your head no? What?

 

[cshoremom]

But if you find it disgusting to hold another’s hand, then it is due to lack of love.

.

I am one who prefers not to hold hands…I will do it when it’s expected…but I do not find it “disgusting”, nor am I lacking love for anyone…( I am super-cautious because I seem to get every germ around…I have kids, I am a nurse and I work in a school…just protecting myself and everyone around me)

I do not think any of the above posters said that they found hand holding “disgusting”…

Your blanket statement is judgmental, don’t you think? Do you know what is actually in our hearts??? “A lack of love” is a strong statement.)I love…I probably love more than the average person.

 

[clem456]

I would love to have been a fly on the wall when he refused. I, in effect, refuse every time I am at Mass. I fold my hands and close my eyes. Anyone sitting next to me, that wanted to hold hands would have to pull my hands apart or tap me to have me open my eyes.

I have never received a dirty look from anyone.

So, OP, how did you refuse? Did you say anything? Just give a look? Shake your head no? What?

Not speaking for the OP, but I merely begin to pray. My standard posture (can’t believe we’re discussing this) is hands on the pew or folded across my chest. If someone is down the pew a ways, I don’t journey down there unless they are lookin my way with their hand out, then I will move. It’s always a good experience though, never regret it. My wife and kids always join hands and my mother will take our hands but not anyone else’s. Maybe I;m disturbing her peace!! If one of my card playing buddies is next to me, we ain’t joining hands…too familiar, sad but true. Can’t say I’ve ever been assaulted by hand joiners at Mass.

 

[Pitcharan]

… We just don’t want to be forced to join you and we don’t want to deal with your comments about our lack of Christianity when we don’t .

Neither choice is morally superior.

I do not see any comments about your lack of Christianity. Which comment are referring to?

 

[1AugustSon7]

This actually might be a good discussion starter. Wish I had the time.

Agreed.

The Reality of this Sacrament.

The “reality of” [or “*effect” or “grace proper to”] this sacrament is the “unity of the mystical body,” which is brought about by our being united (in communion with) Christ our Head and, consequently, with the other members of His Mystical Body, whether they be presently here on earth, suffering in purgatory or triumphant in heaven. Without union with Christ there is no communion. The Blessed Sacrament also strengthens our bond not only i) with Christ our Head Himself, but also ii) with [all] the other members of His Mystical Body. So there is a dual aspect that literally and absolutely hinges on Christ. It is through union with Christ that we are enabled to call God “Father” as well as “Our” Father.

 

[Seeker1961]

I do not see any comments about your lack of Christianity. Which comment are referring to?

Well. It’s gone now…but there was a pretty blatant one on the last page…

There are still a couple about our lack of focus on Jesus, or our lack of love for others because we don’t feel like holding hands with everyone at the Our Father is a requirement for us.

 

[clem456]

Agreed.

The “reality of” [or "*effect

" or “grace proper to”] this sacrament is the “unity of the mystical body,” which is brought about by our being united (in communion with) Christ our Head and, consequently, with the other members of His Mystical Body, whether they be presently here on earth, suffering in purgatory or triumphant in heaven. Without union with Christ there is no communion. The Blessed Sacrament also strengthens our bond not only i) with Christ our Head Himself, but also ii) with [all] the other members of His Mystical Body. So there is a dual aspect that literally and absolutely hinges on Christ. It is through union with Christ that we are enabled to call God “Father” as well as “Our” Father.

Thanks for that.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

[edited]

To be expected to observe a community practice does not amount to ‘forcing’.

Actually, it does.

First, and I can’t emphasize this enough, it is not ‘mandated.’

What certain individuals (no matter how many or how few) at St McFeeley’s do at any part of the Mass (Let’s all rise for the mandated conga line for bringing up the gifts! It’s our COMMUNITY PRACTICE! etc) does not now or ever mean that any person who does not choose to do that practice should be told that he or she MUST do so.

Only the Church has the ‘right’ to enforce a posture. The Church may permit variations but unless the CHURCH has stated, "it is the policy of the Catholic Church’ (or the BISHOP has stated, “it is the policy of our diocese”, no one need ‘do’ whatever is being stated as a practice.

Look at CITH and COTT. If St McFeeley’s ‘majority’ receive in the hand, but somebody wants to receive on the tongue, are you going to tell him that he HAS to receive in the hand because it’s community practice? If so, no less a person that Pope Benedict would say you were wrong.

Yes, it is ‘forcing’ to say, "our parish does this non mandated gesture as a community sign so you have to do it too’.
Or "if you hold your mother’s hand, you have to hold anybody else’s hand.

I am still appalled beyond BELIEF that our culture even in Church has gone so far in the direction of worrying about the APPEARANCE instead of about the actual ACTION–and only for ONE point of view!

I also notice that while much is made of how a person who does NOT ‘shake’ or hold ‘appears to be rude’, the ‘thrusting’ and intimidation (verbal and physical) against those who do not wish to hold never seemst to be seen as a rude action toward the non holders. One definitely gets the impression that everybody KNOWS that hand-holders are the only ones full of love and joy, and only THEIR feelings matter. Non holders must submit because our feelings and ‘comfort’ and reasons do not matter at all. . .

 

[pnewton]

Yes, it is ‘forcing’ to say, "our parish does this non mandated gesture as a community sign so you have to do it too’.
Or "if you hold your mother’s hand, you have to hold anybody else’s hand.

I think I may agree with you on this. I usually see this as a non-issue, but to post or announce that this is going to be done does bring it more into the realm of adding a gesturt to the Mass, as opposed to a gesture occurring at a Mass. A small difference, but a difference.