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Pattylt
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So what’s the connection with Chabads?
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strita
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First, i give lawyers credit for being smart and educated and reading the newspapers or other news sources.
Second, there are some lawyers in every specialty and federal law would be no exception. So, I expect that some attorneys (perhaps not the majority) would KNOW when the government was lagging behind.
Third, Perhaps I should have included public health officials and hospital people as not speaking out enough for preparedness for a pandemic.
In the last 10 years, there have been documentaries about the idea of not IF another pandemic would occur, but WHEN it might occur and WHAT FORM it might take. VonderTann, perhaps you are not familiar with emergency preparedness, even in general terms.
I posted this topic under MORAL THEOLOGY as a matter of…moral theology. I was hinting that people who so frequently describe themselves as professionals have moral obligations, perhaps even patriotic obligations, to help the society that they live in, people who study for years, or should I perhaps say “prepare” for what may lay ahead in their careers of public service?
YOU call it a “blame game.” So, YOU’RE saying that there is not and should never be any preparation for pandemics and that nobody should have any responsibility for such. Do you like when I put words in YOUR mouth?
Second, there are some lawyers in every specialty and federal law would be no exception. So, I expect that some attorneys (perhaps not the majority) would KNOW when the government was lagging behind.
Third, Perhaps I should have included public health officials and hospital people as not speaking out enough for preparedness for a pandemic.
In the last 10 years, there have been documentaries about the idea of not IF another pandemic would occur, but WHEN it might occur and WHAT FORM it might take. VonderTann, perhaps you are not familiar with emergency preparedness, even in general terms.
I posted this topic under MORAL THEOLOGY as a matter of…moral theology. I was hinting that people who so frequently describe themselves as professionals have moral obligations, perhaps even patriotic obligations, to help the society that they live in, people who study for years, or should I perhaps say “prepare” for what may lay ahead in their careers of public service?
YOU call it a “blame game.” So, YOU’RE saying that there is not and should never be any preparation for pandemics and that nobody should have any responsibility for such. Do you like when I put words in YOUR mouth?
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strita
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I didn’t see the bus. As we are seeing today (3/27/2020) the President has used legal authority to respond to the pandemic, much as Congress has used its authority to address the economic aspects of the crisis. The administration disbanded the position of pandemic coordinator (where was it?), on a top level government committee. If anybody threw the president under the bus it seems that he did it to himself.
He took the oath of office in 2017. Like Harry Truman said, the buck stops there.
He took the oath of office in 2017. Like Harry Truman said, the buck stops there.
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Elias
Guest
The president never said the virus was a hoax. Stop spreading this lie.
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strita
Guest
Elias,
please readthe following article. He said SOMETHING was a hoax and ABC says it was the coronavirus (Google still works)
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/ap-fact-check-trump-knew-virus-pandemic-6974167
please readthe following article. He said SOMETHING was a hoax and ABC says it was the coronavirus (Google still works)
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/ap-fact-check-trump-knew-virus-pandemic-6974167
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on_the_hill
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But hey, at least he’s pro-life, right? 
"Trump singled out the Democratic leaders of Washington and Michigan, noting that he had advised Pence not to call them as the healthcare crisis plagues their states and people fall sick and die.
“He calls all the governors,” Trump said. “I tell him, I mean, I’m a different type of person. I say Mike, don’t call the governor of Washington, you’re wasting your time with him. Don’t call the woman in Michigan.”
“If they don’t treat you right, I don’t call,” Trump said. "
"Trump singled out the Democratic leaders of Washington and Michigan, noting that he had advised Pence not to call them as the healthcare crisis plagues their states and people fall sick and die.
“He calls all the governors,” Trump said. “I tell him, I mean, I’m a different type of person. I say Mike, don’t call the governor of Washington, you’re wasting your time with him. Don’t call the woman in Michigan.”
“If they don’t treat you right, I don’t call,” Trump said. "
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Elias
Guest
Oh so you don’t even know if the man himself even said that the virus was a hoax, and yet you still push that lie?
Here is what you have been told by the media. A spliced up lie:
How about you hear it from the man himself in full context:
I know you wont sit through the whole hour but it starts at 3 minutes and 05 seconds. The hoax he is talking about is the left blaming him for the virus and literally politicizing a crisis for their own gain. He compares it to the Russia hoax that held the nation hostage for the last three years.
So please, do your own research before you push lies by people with agendas.
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VonDerTann
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So, now it’s “hospital people” (your phrase) who are responsible for an alleged lack of preparedness (which doesn’t exist because the USA was better prepared than any other nation).
Who is that? Doctors (whose job is treat patients, not scream for preparations?) Administrators? Do you know what jobs they do? The nurses’ unions? Did you even know there are nurses’ unions?
The (counterproductive) blame games continue.
I don’t know what you mean by lawyers who have a “specialty” in federal law. “Federal law” fills libraries. Exactly what “federal law” was violated, that lawyers were supposed to see in the newspapers, you’ve not specified.
I’ve never liked the argument “you don’t understand X.” What I see when I read that as “I don’t like what you’re saying but I can’t really explain why.”
With utmost respect, you’re doing what you’ve been doing, which is trying to 1) decide who to accuse of failure to have the US prepared 2) for a pandemic that arose from an animal virus that no one foresaw jumping to humans; 3) and you’ve not even demonstrated a lack of the preparedness at all, the same unpreparedness you’re trying to blame on lawyers and health care workers.
I’m sorry, dialogue seems fruitless at this point. It appears you lack detailed knowledge of the legal and healthcare industries and are just trying to find someone to blame for an alleged lack of preparation that didn’t exist in the first place. I think you totally misunderstand what lawyers and health care workers really do, and given that reality, I must respectfully disagree with everything you’ve written on this topic.
Who is that? Doctors (whose job is treat patients, not scream for preparations?) Administrators? Do you know what jobs they do? The nurses’ unions? Did you even know there are nurses’ unions?
The (counterproductive) blame games continue.
I don’t know what you mean by lawyers who have a “specialty” in federal law. “Federal law” fills libraries. Exactly what “federal law” was violated, that lawyers were supposed to see in the newspapers, you’ve not specified.
I’ve never liked the argument “you don’t understand X.” What I see when I read that as “I don’t like what you’re saying but I can’t really explain why.”
With utmost respect, you’re doing what you’ve been doing, which is trying to 1) decide who to accuse of failure to have the US prepared 2) for a pandemic that arose from an animal virus that no one foresaw jumping to humans; 3) and you’ve not even demonstrated a lack of the preparedness at all, the same unpreparedness you’re trying to blame on lawyers and health care workers.
I’m sorry, dialogue seems fruitless at this point. It appears you lack detailed knowledge of the legal and healthcare industries and are just trying to find someone to blame for an alleged lack of preparation that didn’t exist in the first place. I think you totally misunderstand what lawyers and health care workers really do, and given that reality, I must respectfully disagree with everything you’ve written on this topic.
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VonDerTann
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One further point about the alleged lack of preparedness: the USA has the best healthcare system in the world, bar none. The USA’s medical schools are the best in the world; the USA is invariably where the world’s rich, for whom cost is no option; come when they need medical care. This is not a fault of the health care system.
Rather, the alleged “lack of preparedness” can really IMHO rather be distilled or paraphrased as “no healthcare system in the world can handle everyone getting ill with a horrible illness at the exact same time.” No nation has enough hospital beds; ventilators; whatever else, to handle exactly that (when it occurs).
Trying to blame entire groups like lawyers; miscellaneous health care workers; whoever, for the above reality really is indefensible at any level.
Rather, the alleged “lack of preparedness” can really IMHO rather be distilled or paraphrased as “no healthcare system in the world can handle everyone getting ill with a horrible illness at the exact same time.” No nation has enough hospital beds; ventilators; whatever else, to handle exactly that (when it occurs).
Trying to blame entire groups like lawyers; miscellaneous health care workers; whoever, for the above reality really is indefensible at any level.
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Dovekin
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While I would love to see the president thrown under the bus over this, that is NOT what I am trying to do with this note. This is meant to suggest what federal government could do, not just what Trump did not do.
President’s have what is called a Bully Pulpit. It enables them to address the whole country to call everyone to a common purpose. If there are “people who won’t listen” it is because Trump is inept at this part of hid job. He has consistently distorted facts to burnish his political image. Conspiracy theories about “the Deep State” have undercut the Federal workers who coordinate healthcare.
This has contributed to this particular disaster. He has said ‘only 15 people would be affected and then it would disappear.’ ‘We will reopen the country for Easter.’ The people who listened to these things from his pulpit are not people who won’t listen. They have heard the wrong message. Sometimes they hear the right message. And they are as confused as Trump sounds so they ignore it all.
This is what the Federal government should be doing, leading the people to fight in a common cause. Not stepping in to do everything, but uniting people so all will oppose the virus together. It seems like this will have to be done without the President and his wimpy pulpit.
On another issue, Germany seems to have been better prepared than we were.
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PennyinCanada
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In Canada people aren’t listening, and on facebook they are saying ‘if you’re scared, fine, stay home, but for me, mind your own business’. And I can say truthfully ‘Trump isn’t my president’.
The human heart is corrupt and we have issue with anyone telling us what to do. It is very apparent in people in general long before a virus showed up.
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VonDerTann
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People overstate the “bully pulpit” thing.
All a “bully pulpit” is, is a way to ENCOURAGE people. Here’s the issues with that:
All a “bully pulpit” is, is a way to ENCOURAGE people. Here’s the issues with that:
- Who reports on Trump? The media.
The media collectives HATES Trump. What he says, they distort and lie about. The reason the media hates trump using twitter is because he bypasses them. - Trump’s daily briefings are well-attended and insightful - despite the insipid “gotcha” questions from the media. These are in stark contrast to the underattended “briefings” by senile Joe Biden, who called the virus the “Luhan” virus a day or 2 ago.
- Trump is 100% correct in his bully pulpit message that we need to get the nation back to work. We can argue over when, but the whole panicked “stay in the house and lose your civil liberties!” Is most certainly not the answer.
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Dovekin
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I do not Know. They have 53k cases with 400 dead while we have 106k with 1800 dead. .8% mortality seems better than 1.8%, though obviously both are better than Italy’s 10.8%. The numbers are not really directly comparable, but they give you a sense of how prepared the countries were.
As to the rest, you make my point about how poorly Trump has used his pulpit. Last week’s “Everybody celebrating Easter” does not quite fit with this week’s “Quarantine NYC & NJ.” There is no consistency and so people do whatever they want. This does not have much to do with the media presentations; he just lacks a firm position, and has lost his bully pulpit as a result. People who agree with him are always left defending last week’s position instead of facing the problems.
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VonDerTann
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If you don’t know how Germany was better prepared than the US, you have NO BUSINESS saying that is the case.
The mortality rate is different: that’s what you’ve got.
That could be accounted for by slower testing; maybe being 2 days behind the US (the death rate will thus grow); they’re dealing with a different strain/mutated virus; any of these factors and others could account for a different mortality rate.
Sheesh, if you don’t know, don’t act like you do then say, “uhhh…I dunno!” when pushed.
This situation changes minute to minute, hence the varied response. Trump does many things, but failing to take a “firm position” isn’t one; he’s been about the firmest US president in the last 50.
I’m done with this. Bye.
The mortality rate is different: that’s what you’ve got.
That could be accounted for by slower testing; maybe being 2 days behind the US (the death rate will thus grow); they’re dealing with a different strain/mutated virus; any of these factors and others could account for a different mortality rate.
Sheesh, if you don’t know, don’t act like you do then say, “uhhh…I dunno!” when pushed.
This situation changes minute to minute, hence the varied response. Trump does many things, but failing to take a “firm position” isn’t one; he’s been about the firmest US president in the last 50.
I’m done with this. Bye.
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esieffe
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As I said in another thread, we have had a strategic oil reserve for years, hopefully after this, we will have a strategic medical reserve.
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meltzerboy2
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Don’t forget the unpreparedness of the educational system. I had to learn how to teach my college classes online in about 3 days. And good luck to the poor NYC educators in grades K - 12 who are also required to teach their students online.
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Lara
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I’m not convinced about additional hand washing as a solution to Covid. Of course, you need to wash hands before you eat, when you handle food, and after you use the loo. But during the day, when you touch keypads, rails, other people’s stuff, (presuming they wash after they use the loo), etc., it’s not a problem til you touch your eyes. I’m not sure about your nose. Say you touch the bottom of your nose. Not much goes back up the nose. As for the mouth, most germs would be swallowed and attacked by the acid in your stomach.
Another problem if you wash your hands too frequently, is you get cuts all over your hands, especially in dry weather. I think germs go in those cuts very quickly. That pathway is worse than touching the mouth, if you ask me.
I think there is a genetic component to germs. My family’s germs I always catch.
I think scientists should focus more on people’s immune systems than on germs. Clearly some young people are only minimally affected by COVID while others are totally affected to scary proportions.
Another problem if you wash your hands too frequently, is you get cuts all over your hands, especially in dry weather. I think germs go in those cuts very quickly. That pathway is worse than touching the mouth, if you ask me.
I think there is a genetic component to germs. My family’s germs I always catch.
I think scientists should focus more on people’s immune systems than on germs. Clearly some young people are only minimally affected by COVID while others are totally affected to scary proportions.
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graciew
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If your hands get cuts, you may need a different kind of soap.
I had that problem once and it happened to be glycerine soap that caused that allergic reaction.
Yet we need to wash our hands with soap as recommended.
Eyes, nose and mouth , those are the doors to this virus. Try an avoid touching your face , it will end up being a good habit also
I had that problem once and it happened to be glycerine soap that caused that allergic reaction.
Yet we need to wash our hands with soap as recommended.
Eyes, nose and mouth , those are the doors to this virus. Try an avoid touching your face , it will end up being a good habit also
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VonDerTann
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With all due respect your entire post is factually inaccurate - so much so I reread your post to see if you were trolling. You’ve managed to cram like 20 inaccuracies into like 5 sentences.
First off, if what you were saying was accurate (that there’s no problem unless you touch your face, and “stomach acids would kill germs”) no one would get colds and no one would ever get the sorts of noroviruses that attack the GI tract and cause diahrrea (because the stomach juices would kill the germs, which doesn’t happen). For that matter your GI tract is loaded with bacteria as it is: that’s why people take probiotics. It just happens to be “good” bacteria, which helps digestion. Some
Antibiotics cause diarrhea because they kill the good gut bacteria along with the bad bugs when you’re sick.
You don’t get sick from your skin cracking when you wash too much.
That’s just not the way things work.
Most viruses that cause the common cold (i.e. Rhinoviruses) are aerosolized, i.e. Spread by things like sneezes and coughing in the air. Are you REALLY suggesting that it’s perfectly safe to be sneezed on by a sick person so long as you don’t touch your eyes? No one thinks that (certainly no doctors).
The scary latest research is that covid 19 is aerosolized as well.
You don’t catch your family’s germs because you’re genetically similar to them. You catch their colds because you’re in close proximity to them. If you were correct husbands and wives would never make each other sick because they’re genetically different. That’s not the case.
Hand washing is the single biggest defense you have to avoid getting covid or any other seasonal illness.
First off, if what you were saying was accurate (that there’s no problem unless you touch your face, and “stomach acids would kill germs”) no one would get colds and no one would ever get the sorts of noroviruses that attack the GI tract and cause diahrrea (because the stomach juices would kill the germs, which doesn’t happen). For that matter your GI tract is loaded with bacteria as it is: that’s why people take probiotics. It just happens to be “good” bacteria, which helps digestion. Some
Antibiotics cause diarrhea because they kill the good gut bacteria along with the bad bugs when you’re sick.
You don’t get sick from your skin cracking when you wash too much.
That’s just not the way things work.
Most viruses that cause the common cold (i.e. Rhinoviruses) are aerosolized, i.e. Spread by things like sneezes and coughing in the air. Are you REALLY suggesting that it’s perfectly safe to be sneezed on by a sick person so long as you don’t touch your eyes? No one thinks that (certainly no doctors).
The scary latest research is that covid 19 is aerosolized as well.
You don’t catch your family’s germs because you’re genetically similar to them. You catch their colds because you’re in close proximity to them. If you were correct husbands and wives would never make each other sick because they’re genetically different. That’s not the case.
Hand washing is the single biggest defense you have to avoid getting covid or any other seasonal illness.
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graciew
Guest
It definitely is.
We are in lock down, not allowed to travel even to the next town unless specifically authorized due to the nature of the job or real emergency.
We are allowed to go buy food or medicine or stuff to repair a damage in the house, to the closest store,leaving the house as little as possible. For now.
As I do the shopping , having to pick stuff up, get our credit card and so on, it is then that we also have to be mindful this virus survives on surfaces. And it is for this purpose that being mindful about not touching our faces is of extreme importance. We can wear glasses , or something or nothing but take it slowly, and be very present in our here and now as we do so. It is another way to stay safe. Then some gel until we can wash our hands as soon as possible
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