Unrealistic Expectations of a Priest?

[Twelve]

First, a big thank you to all who post here. I have learned so much from you during the many months I have been lurking and reading. This is my first ever post, religious or otherwise.

I was born and raised Catholic and have attended Mass my whole life. (Less faithfully during my younger years) It is difficult to write this post because I feel judgmental, critical and sinful in admitting my struggle. I’ll just spit it out and say that I do not like our priest at all. I do not like the way I feel during Mass, primarily because of him.

A little history. I have lived in the same community my whole life and attended the same parishes. It seems like once we get a good priest, they are taken in no time to the bigger diocese, typically Seattle. That leaves us, once again, with the retired priest of which I am speaking. During the years he has gone from parish to parish scolding and alienating parishioners for being late, for leaving early, for not returning names and addresses of those we know who have left the church, for loud babies, for putting nothing more than a “fiver” in the offering basket, for not going to confession often enough, and on and on.

Five minutes into his homily today a baby on the other side of the church let out a cry of protest. He stopped his talk to rudely bring attention to the Mother and the child. Inviting them to the vestibule where they can “scream their heads off”. I have no doubt she was mortified, as was I, and the rest of the parishioners for her. He went on to rant about needing to bring the word of God to the people, and those of us with children must ensure they not be a disruption to parishioners and why we, as adults, should not talk to or disrupt fellow parishioners. I assure you, our church is like most of the churches you all attend. The families with children sit in the very back, close to the door for a swift exit. We don’t allow our children to carry on rudely and you will find a host of mothers, fathers and babies out in the narthex when the need arises. I should also note that our church does not have a Nursery.

This is one example of so many. The church feels cold, the choir unmotivated, and the voices dull and lifeless in reply. I have talked with family members about this. They say I have an unrealistic expectation of what a priest should be. That he is a man who has been ordained to consecrate the Eucharist. He is not there to entertain me, offer a beautiful and moving homily, or make me feel warm and fuzzy.

I read in Karl Keating’s latest letter that we are losing scores of young adults to Mormonism. Two of my three sisters have left the faith for an evangelical faith offering acceptance and love. In order to save a “dying church” don’t we need to start loving and showering kindness upon those of us who remain faithful and loyal? Truly, I would not feel comfortable inviting new comers or friends to my church. What do I do? How do I work to better this parish? I want to be part of the solution. Here is a man who has dedicated his whole life to serving God and I am speaking this way of him. I am ashamed and vow to do better. Yet, Sunday comes again, he starts in on us again, and I am right back where I started, angry at him! Any suggestions? (Pfew…sorry for the length)

 

[kathielee]

First, a big thank you to all who post here. I have learned so much from you during the many months I have been lurking and reading. This is my first ever post, religious or otherwise.

I was born and raised Catholic and have attended Mass my whole life. (Less faithfully during my younger years) It is difficult to write this post because I feel judgmental, critical and sinful in admitting my struggle. I’ll just spit it out and say that I do not like our priest at all. I do not like the way I feel during Mass, primarily because of him.

A little history. I have lived in the same community my whole life and attended the same parishes. It seems like once we get a good priest, they are taken in no time to the bigger diocese, typically Seattle. That leaves us, once again, with the retired priest of which I am speaking. During the years he has gone from parish to parish scolding and alienating parishioners for being late, for leaving early, for not returning names and addresses of those we know who have left the church, for loud babies, for putting nothing more than a “fiver” in the offering basket, for not going to confession often enough, and on and on.

Five minutes into his homily today a baby on the other side of the church let out a cry of protest. He stopped his talk to rudely bring attention to the Mother and the child. Inviting them to the vestibule where they can “scream their heads off”. I have no doubt she was mortified, as was I, and the rest of the parishioners for her. He went on to rant about needing to bring the word of God to the people, and those of us with children must ensure they not be a disruption to parishioners and why we, as adults, should not talk to or disrupt fellow parishioners. I assure you, our church is like most of the churches you all attend. The families with children sit in the very back, close to the door for a swift exit. We don’t allow our children to carry on rudely and you will find a host of mothers, fathers and babies out in the narthex when the need arises. I should also note that our church does not have a Nursery.

This is one example of so many. The church feels cold, the choir unmotivated, and the voices dull and lifeless in reply. I have talked with family members about this. They say I have an unrealistic expectation of what a priest should be. That he is a man who has been ordained to consecrate the Eucharist. He is not there to entertain me, offer a beautiful and moving homily, or make me feel warm and fuzzy.

I read in Karl Keating’s latest letter that we are losing scores of young adults to Mormonism. Two of my three sisters have left the faith for an evangelical faith offering acceptance and love. In order to save a “dying church” don’t we need to start loving and showering kindness upon those of us who remain faithful and loyal? Truly, I would not feel comfortable inviting new comers or friends to my church. What do I do? How do I work to better this parish? I want to be part of the solution. Here is a man who has dedicated his whole life to serving God and I am speaking this way of him. I am ashamed and vow to do better. Yet, Sunday comes again, he starts in on us again, and I am right back where I started, angry at him! Any suggestions? (Pfew…sorry for the length)

Jesus spoke to St. Faustina about this very thing…we should not concern ourselves if the priest is good or bad…he is still God’s appointed one to bring us the Holy Eucharist…and nothing is more important than that.

I also understand how you feel. Just keep in mind that we are a country of plenty. There are other countries, such as in South America, that are lucky to receive the Holy Eucharist once a month.

Maybe this priest is getting dementia? Pray for him. Pray for all priests. If we do not pray daily for vocations of holy priests, we deserve what we get.

You are not bad for feeling this !!! Just remember that we go to Mass to give…we give our love to our beloved Jesus. And, He in all His Divine Mercy, gives us his body, blood, soul, and divinity in the Holy Eucharist.

Kathie

 

[Tietjen]

I’ll be honest. With the possible exception of the crying baby, I don’t find anything wrong with the Priest you have described. I wish more Priests would push the laity to go to Confession more often, be on time for Mass, not leave Mass after Holy Communion, etc. Does he address proper attire for Mass as well?

As for the situation with babies… It’s a tough one if the Church has no nursery. I believe however, that families should stay together at Mass, including infants to the extent that they will not cause others around them to be unable to stay focused on the Mass. I don’t believe that Father handled the situation correctly by embarrassing the poor mother in front of the congregation. Perhaps it could have been better handled after Mass and away from earshot of others.

 

[ALLGIRLS]

I don’t have a problem w/ a priest exhorting the parishioners to go to confession and remain for the entire mass, not leave right after communion. There is a pastoral way to do this, however, and it doesn’t involve yelling and belittling. I’m wondering how he treats people in the confessional? If he’s yelling at people during mass, if you confess the same sin twice in a row, does he berate and refuse to absolve you because “you’re obviously not sorry if you keep doing this” (I’ve heard of priests like this-they drive people away from confession, and eventually away from the Church). The situation w/ the child is completely unacceptable. Soon there will be no babies or toddlers making noise, b/c the parents will decide to stay home until the kids are old enough to sit quietly for an hour, or worse, go to the nearest evangelical church that has a nursery and welcomes young families w/ open arms. This guy kinda sounds like the Dr. Laura of priests: the message may be good and sound, but he really needs to work on the delivery if he wants to reach people (that’s my opinion of Dr. Laura, anyway ). Besides praying for him, have you tried an anonymous letter to him, and one (not necessarily anonymous) to the Bishop? It would be even better if you could get a number of other parishioners to contribute, so it doesn’t such sound like you have a personal issue w/ the priest. I also agree w/ what a previous poster stated that he may be suffering from dementia. And some older folks just get really cranky and short tempered as they age (NOT ALL OF THEM BY ANY MEANS, SO DON"T FLAME ME! My dh’s grandmas were both wonderful, sweet ladies until the day they died in their early 90’s. My own grandma, however, passed away last week at 101, and had been ill tempered and hated everybody-except babies and little kids-for at least 20 yrs).

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[rtconstant]

First, a big thank you to all who post here. I have learned so much from you during the many months I have been lurking and reading. This is my first ever post, religious or otherwise.

I was born and raised Catholic and have attended Mass my whole life. (Less faithfully during my younger years) It is difficult to write this post because I feel judgmental, critical and sinful in admitting my struggle. I’ll just spit it out and say that I do not like our priest at all. I do not like the way I feel during Mass, primarily because of him.

A little history. I have lived in the same community my whole life and attended the same parishes. It seems like once we get a good priest, they are taken in no time to the bigger diocese, typically Seattle. That leaves us, once again, with the retired priest of which I am speaking. During the years he has gone from parish to parish scolding and alienating parishioners for being late, for leaving early, for not returning names and addresses of those we know who have left the church, for loud babies, for putting nothing more than a “fiver” in the offering basket, for not going to confession often enough, and on and on.

Five minutes into his homily today a baby on the other side of the church let out a cry of protest. He stopped his talk to rudely bring attention to the Mother and the child. Inviting them to the vestibule where they can “scream their heads off”. I have no doubt she was mortified, as was I, and the rest of the parishioners for her. He went on to rant about needing to bring the word of God to the people, and those of us with children must ensure they not be a disruption to parishioners and why we, as adults, should not talk to or disrupt fellow parishioners. I assure you, our church is like most of the churches you all attend. The families with children sit in the very back, close to the door for a swift exit. We don’t allow our children to carry on rudely and you will find a host of mothers, fathers and babies out in the narthex when the need arises. I should also note that our church does not have a Nursery.

This is one example of so many. The church feels cold, the choir unmotivated, and the voices dull and lifeless in reply. I have talked with family members about this. They say I have an unrealistic expectation of what a priest should be. That he is a man who has been ordained to consecrate the Eucharist. He is not there to entertain me, offer a beautiful and moving homily, or make me feel warm and fuzzy.

I read in Karl Keating’s latest letter that we are losing scores of young adults to Mormonism. Two of my three sisters have left the faith for an evangelical faith offering acceptance and love. In order to save a “dying church” don’t we need to start loving and showering kindness upon those of us who remain faithful and loyal? Truly, I would not feel comfortable inviting new comers or friends to my church. What do I do? How do I work to better this parish? I want to be part of the solution. Here is a man who has dedicated his whole life to serving God and I am speaking this way of him. I am ashamed and vow to do better. Yet, Sunday comes again, he starts in on us again, and I am right back where I started, angry at him! Any suggestions? (Pfew…sorry for the length)

Hmmm, to me the biggest tragedy here is that his personality and approach are cooling his message which from what you say sounds pretty good. He seems very devout and orthodox. Which is a treasure truly.

As others have said pray for him. You may not know what’s going on with him. If he’s older he may be in a lot of pain. He also may not realize how he’s coming across. Like in his mind he may have thought he was showing respect to everyone else by requesting the mother to move with her baby out to the vestibule. I completely agree he did that the wrong way but I’m just saying it is quiet possible he doesn’t realize how the congregation took it.

I don’t know what has happened up to this point but maybe take the approach of the Little Flower and no matter how surly he gets always approach him with warmth and kindness. Even if he never gets over some of these habits you’d be surprised by how that you can impact his life. I used to visit a shut in who could be very dour and severe but one week I went on vacation and my dad went to see him in my stead and all the guy talked about was how much he enjoyed my visits. I had become one of his closest friends and I never even knew it.

Maybe in this case you can gain joy out of ministering to a man who spent his life ministering to others?

Anyway, I hope everything works out.

 

[drafdog]

Next time he tries to publicly humiliate a mother for a baby’s outburst, maybe Mom should carry the infant up to the altar and sit down on the altar step next to Father. She should then tell him to carry on as she expects his soothing voice will soon lull the baby to sleep.

Matthew

 

[Tietjen]

Next time he tries to publicly humiliate a mother for a baby’s outburst, maybe Mom should carry the infant up to the altar and sit down on the altar step next to Father. She should then tell him to carry on as she expects his soothing voice will soon lull the baby to sleep.

Matthew

Amazing. Are you truly a Catholic, or simply one of those who claim the name yet are obviously so quick to pass a judgment against a Priest based off of ONE person’s opinion of the situation? Your advice to the OP… to willfully disrupt the mass. Nice, truly nice.

ALLGIRLS:

I’m wondering how he treats people in the confessional? If he’s yelling at people during mass, if you confess the same sin twice in a row, does he berate and refuse to absolve you because “you’re obviously not sorry if you keep doing this” (I’ve heard of priests like this-they drive people away from confession, and eventually away from the Church).

And why would you assume such a thing?

ALLGIRLS:

The situation w/ the child is completely unacceptable. Soon there will be no babies or toddlers making noise, b/c the parents will decide to stay home until the kids are old enough to sit quietly for an hour, or worse, go to the nearest evangelical church that has a nursery and welcomes young families w/ open arms.

That’s really kind of a big leap. Do you actually believe that all parents of young children will leave the parish and become Protestant? That type of thinking would also accept the possibility that all those sitting within earshot of a crying baby at Mass will leave the Church and become Protestant in order to avoid having to endure a crying baby at Mass.

Look, I am not suggesting that the Priest at the OP’s parish handled the situation of the crying baby in the best possible manner. However, I cannot vilify a clergy for attempting to make the Mass easier to hear for those laity who happen to be sitting near a crying baby. What strikes me as strange is why the mother or father did not excuse her/him self when the baby first began to cry so as not to disturb the Mass.

ALLGIRLS:

This guy kinda sounds like the Dr. Laura of priests: the message may be good and sound, but he really needs to work on the delivery if he wants to reach people (that’s my opinion of Dr. Laura, anyway ).

“This guy” IS a Priest! Sheesh, I suppose I am living in the wrong century or something. Today’s Churches are filled with so many who can and do show a lack of respect for the clergy and the mass. Now we are comparing what sounds like a devout clergy who MAY have made a mistake to a radio talk show hostess.

ALLGIRLS:

Besides praying for him, have you tried an anonymous letter to him, and one (not necessarily anonymous) to the Bishop?

How very brave. OR, here’s an idea, if the OP perceives a problem, perhaps she can simply make an appointment with Father and speak to him.

 

[blessedtoo]

Twelve,
That’s a very upsetting story about the crying baby. It made me think of the miracle of my parish and pastor. This Sunday, I sat behind a beautiful family of 9, with the tenth still sleeping in mama’s womb. I KNOW our pastor LOVES big families with lots of little children and he makes it known that they are loved and welcomed. As a result, we are seeing more families at each Mass.

I don’t think you are being unrealistic at all. It would disturb me terribly to see such a scene unfold from the pulpit. I’ve read enough threads on this forum to know that parents are already completely terrified of taking their young ones to Mass because of the probability of misbehavior. As a pre-VAT II youngster myself, I remember clearly the admonishments from the priests in my childhood parish and how humiliating it was for the young parents. As other posters have suggested, prayers for this priest seem to be in order.

 

[NotWorthy]

Our priest praises the cries of children and simply raises his voice above them (well, most of the time). He loves the sound of young people in the Church and feels that families should go to church together.

 

[ALLGIRLS]

Amazing. Are you truly a Catholic, or simply one of those who claim the name yet are obviously so quick to pass a judgment against a Priest based off of ONE person’s opinion of the situation? Your advice to the OP… to willfully disrupt the mass. Nice, truly nice.

And why would you assume such a thing?

**Because of the countless stories I’ve heard of priests scolding people in the confessional. Granted, that’s not an excuse to leave the Church, I personally would simply find another confessor, but it’s still not acceptable. Jesus said to “sin no more”, but He didn’t make people feel like scum in the process, and it’s the mercy of Christ we’re supposed to be getting when we confess to a priest. **

That’s really kind of a big leap. Do you actually believe that all parents of young children will leave the parish and become Protestant? That type of thinking would also accept the possibility that all those sitting within earshot of a crying baby at Mass will leave the Church and become Protestant in order to avoid having to endure a crying baby at Mass.

Not all of them by any means. It certainly wouldn’t deter those strong in their faith, but many people aren’t strong in their faith. Imagine being yelled at during mass b/c your baby was crying. Later in the week (while you’re still stinging from the rebuke), your Protestant neighbor relates what a wonderful time she and her kids had at church that weekend. For someone not knowing or believing that the Catholic Church is the One True Church, and the mass is heaven on earth, their faith could easily be shaken. I know some people think the Church is better off without Catholics like that, but imo, so long as someone is going to mass, there is a possibility they can be reached and properly catechized.

Look, I am not suggesting that the Priest at the OP’s parish handled the situation of the crying baby in the best possible manner. However, I cannot vilify a clergy for attempting to make the Mass easier to hear for those laity who happen to be sitting near a crying baby. What strikes me as strange is why the mother or father did not excuse her/him self when the baby first began to cry so as not to disturb the Mass.

**And at my church this Sunday we had a visiting priest from a much smaller, older parish. He said the one sound he doesn’t hear at his church is babies and small children (our parish is huge and full of young and growing families), and how much he loved hearing all the cries and squeals, and that this is the way babies and small kids praise God. Do you really expect parents to jump up and leave as soon as their kids make a sound? Maybe the mom was trying to get the pacifier to sooth the baby, or changing positions so she could rock him to sleep. The op didn’t say the baby was crying for an extended period of time. If every mom or dad jumped up and left every time their kid made a sound, that would be MUCH more disruptive than a few seconds of crying. And if someone really can’t stand the sound of a baby, then they shouldn’t sit by them. OR more parishes need to take the protestant approach and hire full time child care workers for every mass. As it stands, we baptize our babies, making them members of the Church, so they have just as much right to be at mass as anyone else. **

“This guy” IS a Priest! Sheesh, I suppose I am living in the wrong century or something. Today’s Churches are filled with so many who can and do show a lack of respect for the clergy and the mass. Now we are comparing what sounds like a devout clergy who MAY have made a mistake to a radio talk show hostess.

**When did I say he WASN’T a priest? Sheesh. I just stated, by my reading of the op, that his delivery was off, which is the exact problem I have w/ Dr. Laura. I didn’t say he WAS Dr. Laura, or he was any less a priest b/c of it. I don’t see how that is showing a lack of respect. I didn’t suggest that the op go tell the priest that he’s acting like Dr. Laura. And how can saying his attitude is lacking be any more disrespectful than yelling at woman b/c her baby is crying? Or don’t mothers deserve the same level of respect? You know, without mother’s, there wouldn’t be any priests. Yes, there are bad mothers, and yes, there are bad priests. I didn’t even say this one was bad, but he obviously has some problems, or the op wouldn’t be here. **

How very brave. OR, here’s an idea, if the OP perceives a problem, perhaps she can simply make an appointment with Father and speak to him.

**First of all, why are you assuming the op is a woman? The screenname, Twelve, doesn’t hint either way. Traditional grammer rules dictate that if gender is unknown or in a hypothetical situation, the masculine pronoun he should be used. Secondly, if the op “perceives” a problem? You’re acting like this is all in his head. This has apparently been going on for many years. I suggested an anonymous, group letter, so the priest can’t single anyone out for humiliation during mass, which apparently he like to do.

And I totally missed the part about him yelling at people for not giving enough in the collection basket. I’m the first to admit that Catholics as a whole don’t tithe enough, it’s one of my personal pet peeves, but, that’s ultimately between the parishioner and God, the priest doesn’t know anyone’s personal financial situation, and to berate the congregation over tithing is highly inappropriate IMO. **

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[toaslan]

Friend Twelve, and all, hello!

Here is a little perspective.

Our little parish in the mountains has always had a priest in residence, albeit often a “retired” priest. There is daily Mass, three Sunday Masses, Saturday Confessions, and a bustling Religious Ed program.

Our busy but old priest is now diagnosed with a lung disorder which will eventually pull him down. He says Mass now supported by his portable oxygen tank–you hear the puffing of the regulator.

We don’t know how much longer he can hang in here. His understanding is that there will be no priest to replace him, one reason he continues.

The parish has always known itself lucky to have him, especially as he is gentle and orthodox.

Now there are things in the works for “communion services” and “Sunday services in the absence of a priest.”

Now, Twelve, do you feel more concerned about forgiving and forgetting your sometimes difficult priest’s faults? At least you have a priest.

All a priest does is irrelevant except giving the sacraments. That is what he is for. The sermons don’t matter (unless they are heretical). His personality doesn’t matter. The Real Presence matters. Forgiveness of sins matters. As long as he is providing those miracles, the rest of it is irrelevant.

Concentrate on the positive side of your situation.

Also I suggest telling him fully and sincerely how very grateful, how unconditionally grateful for him you are. He probably doesn’t hear that, maybe ever? Maybe he needs some love from his parish!

 

[Claire_from_DE]

An earlier poster suggested sending an anonymous letter to the priest and a letter to the bishop as well. I suggest sending a signed letter to the priest. Write everything you want to get out, then keep it for several days and edit it. Look at it again. What is your goal? To vent your feelings or to encourage the priest to make some changes? Edit some more. Do you tell him what you appreciate about him as well as what you would like to see changed? Now edit it down to one page. Have you told him how his actions or words make you feel? Does the letter show that you assume he has good motivations for what he does? If you finally send the letter, do it on Sunday so he has time to simmer down before the next Sunday.

I did this once. The pastor seemed to disapprove of everything about the parish. We never knew if he was going to rail at us during a sermon for something totally unexpected like dirty altar server cassocks. Women would be in tears after speaking to him. Some people went to other parishes, some just left. Several letters were sent to the bishop, which just made the pastor more angry.

I edited my letter from four pages to one. I was amazed at his positive response, especially as I had yelled at him during a meeting in front of everybody. Several weeks later, he actually apologized to me. A couple years later, I apologized to him.(It takes some of us longer to recognize when we have been wrong.)

This priest was a perfectionist and was hard on himself as well as others. His homilies, when he wasn’t yelling at us, were challenging and orthodox. Some of the altar servers were very fond of him because he had been kind to them. I think he was shy. When he heard confessions he removed the chair so we couldn’t go face to face. But he was kind in confession, which I hadn’t expected. When he finally left the parish, almost everybody was sorry to see him go.

Maybe your priest needs some friends in the church, some families with children to invite him to dinner, some other men he can talk to, a woman to bring him a casserole from time to time, a couple teenagers to wash his car? If he gets to know the people it could change his attitude.

 

[Tietjen]

Because of the countless stories I’ve heard of priests scolding people in the confessional. Granted, that’s not an excuse to leave the Church, I personally would simply find another confessor, but it’s still not acceptable. Jesus said to “sin no more”, but He didn’t make people feel like scum in the process, and it’s the mercy of Christ we’re supposed to be getting when we confess to a priest.

“Countless stories” huh? Well, I would suggest that perhaps those “countless stories” are the exception and probably very rare. I have been to confession all over the world and have yet to encounter one of these “countless stories.”

Not all of them by any means. It certainly wouldn’t deter those strong in their faith, but many people aren’t strong in their faith. Imagine being yelled at during mass b/c your baby was crying.

I already said that perhaps Father could have handled the situation better, such as approaching the parents after Mass and in private. I will not use the situation to beat up on the Priest or suggest to the OP that SHE or HE should go and write anonymous letters to him and the Bishop. So many today seem to look for lessons to criticize the Church and Her clergy, and you want to use a crying baby to do so?

And at my church this Sunday we had a visiting priest from a much smaller, older parish. He said the one sound he doesn’t hear at his church is babies and small children (our parish is huge and full of young and growing families), and how much he loved hearing all the cries and squeals, and that this is the way babies and small kids praise God.

Praise God, then at least I know that there will be one less anonymous letter being sent to a Bishop concerning mean-spirited Priests.

Do you really expect parents to jump up and leave as soon as their kids make a sound?

No, I expect that parents should attempt to keep their children with them in Mass up until the point that the child becomes a distraction to those around them or the Mass in general. Then I believe that the parent should, out of respect for the Mass and those sitting around them, quietly take the child to an area where others will not be distracted. This is called being respectful of others. It’s really not that big of a deal and has been going on for centuries.

And if someone really can’t stand the sound of a baby, then they shouldn’t sit by them.

Are you suggesting that if a couple with their infant sit’s next to someone who would prefer not to be distracted during Mass, that he/she should get up and go find another pew to sit in?

OR more parishes need to take the protestant approach and hire full time child care workers for every mass. As it stands, we baptize our babies, making them members of the Church, so they have just as much right to be at mass as anyone else.

Yes, indeed they do. And I am not finding babies guilty for their crying. However, I am suggesting that perhaps those sitting in close proximity to a crying baby might find themselves distracted by the crying and that the parents of the baby, should attempt to lessen the distraction. I personally love babies. I’ve raised 3 children and I cannot wait for grandchildren. However, I also love the Mass and I expect that those sitting around me also love the Mass. Therefore, if, in the future, I am at Mass with one of my grandchild(ren), and he/she/they begin to fuss, I will quietly excuse myself so as not to cause others to become distracted from the Mass. I won’t feel my rights or my grandchild(ren) “rights” are being violated.

When did I say he WASN’T a priest? Sheesh. I just stated, by my reading of the op, that his delivery was off, which is the exact problem I have w/ Dr. Laura.

You compared Father to Dr. Laura. If we are to discuss the clergy then perhaps we should avoid comparing said clergy to talk show hosts, milkshakes, and/or automobiles. Apples should be compared to apples and oranges to oranges.

And how can saying his attitude is lacking be any more disrespectful than yelling at woman b/c her baby is crying? Or don’t mothers deserve the same level of respect?

And how pray tell do you know Father “yelled” at the woman? I ask this question, not to suggest that the OP was lying, but rather to suggest that what is perceived as “yelling” to some may not actually be yelling at all. I work in law enforcement and know very well that different people see things differently based on their personal experiences, the specific incident, prejudices, and beliefs. For example, in this situation you feel for the mother mentioned in this thread. I read this thread and though I can feel for the mother, I feel more protective of the Priest. You and I are reading the same posts, but we bring our individual feelings, experiences, etc. as we read these posts. Thus, we come to different conclusions. I am suggesting that perhaps what the OP perceived as yelling may have simply been a request made from the pulpit and not actually an angry ill-tempered priest foaming at the mouth and wishing ill of all little children. We have only the OP’s interpretation of the situation and I for one will NOT speak ill of the clergy based on the opinion of one witness.
{{{ CONTINUED BELOW }}}

 

[Tietjen]

{{{ CONTINUED FROM ABOVE }}}

You know, without mother’s, there wouldn’t be any priests. Yes, there are bad mothers, and yes, there are bad priests. I didn’t even say this one was bad, but he obviously has some problems, or the op wouldn’t be here.

Unless the OP was mistaken, or the OP has a personal problem with this particular Priest. I’m not saying that she does, I wouldn’t assume that. And I would ask that you not assume that the Priest does based off of only one person’s word.

First of all, why are you assuming the op is a woman? The screenname, Twelve, doesn’t hint either way. Traditional grammer rules dictate that if gender is unknown or in a hypothetical situation, the masculine pronoun he should be used.

LOL - Proper grammar also dictates the use quotes around the word “he” in your last sentence and grammar is spelled g-r-a-m-m-a-r. This is how it should have been written:

Traditional grammar rules dictate that if gender is unknown or in a hypothetical situation, the masculine pronoun “he” should be used.

However, I think it more important to discuss topics rather than criticize grammar.

Oh by the way, I assumed the OP to be female for sexist reasons. Few males I know of would come to these forums and complain about this type of stuff. More than likely, if a male has a problem with someone (even a Priest) he will address that problem with the individual albeit respectfully of course. If what I have just said offends anyone, please forgive me. That was not my intent. I am simply answering honestly with the life experiences I mentioned above.

Secondly, if the op “perceives” a problem? You’re acting like this is all in his head.

I am acting as though that is a possibility. You, on the other hand, seem to immediately take in every word as though it came from the Gospel of John; even to the point of seemingly finding a Priest guilty based solely on the testimony of someone you have never even met. Don’t you see a problem with that… even a little bit?

This has apparently been going on for many years. I suggested an anonymous, group letter, so the priest can’t single anyone out for humiliation during mass, which apparently he like to do.

“Like” should have an “s” at the end. Anonymous letters are for those afraid of the truth. If you or the OP feels wronged, then stand up and say so. Don’t simply hide behind anonymity throwing out accusations.

And I totally missed the part about him yelling at people for not giving enough in the collection basket. I’m the first to admit that Catholics as a whole don’t tithe enough, it’s one of my personal pet peeves, but, that’s ultimately between the parishioner and God, the priest doesn’t know anyone’s personal financial situation, and to berate the congregation over tithing is highly inappropriate IMO.

Agreed, if actual berating is taking place. How many Priests have you seen berate the laity before passing the collection basket? I don’t mean a simple remark such as, “please remember the Bishop’s fund.” I’m talking about actual berating.

Finally, to the OP. Please do not feel that I am attacking you simply because I defend the clergy. I do not know you. I do not know the Priest that you spoke of. I have heard your side of the issue, but there is no one to present any other perspectives. Therefore, I cannot simply side with you over a Priest based solely on hearsay. I respect the Church and her clergy too much to do that. God bless you.

 

[snhs]

**First of all, why are you assuming the op is a woman? The screenname, Twelve, doesn’t hint either way. Traditional grammer rules dictate that if gender is unknown or in a hypothetical situation, the masculine pronoun he should be used. Secondly, if the op “perceives” a problem? You’re acting like this is all in his head. This has apparently been going on for many years. I suggested an anonymous, group letter, so the priest can’t single anyone out for humiliation during mass, which apparently he like to do.

And I totally missed the part about him yelling at people for not giving enough in the collection basket. I’m the first to admit that Catholics as a whole don’t tithe enough, it’s one of my personal pet peeves, but, that’s ultimately between the parishioner and God, the priest doesn’t know anyone’s personal financial situation, and to berate the congregation over tithing is highly inappropriate IMO. **

In Christ,

Ellen

It is however acceptable to draw inferences from the topic and style of writing as to the gender involved. Had he used ‘he’ then doubtless he’d have been criticised for that by someone else.

I don’t think he ever suggested it was all in the OP’s head what he did suggest was that it is one persons view on a Priest. This gives a very biased view which is only giving a partial take on the whole story. He also appeared to suggest that certain replies here may be in danger of being uncharitable towards the Priest and I’m inclined to agree with him.

If it is putting the financial stability of the Parish in jeopardy then it is a legitimate thing for the Priest to speak about. The OP mentioned the lack of a nursery, maybe if the Parish had the kind of funds the Priest is seeking they would be able to finance one. Equally if he didn’t advocate funding then he would probably be criticised for not being proactive enough. The Priest has significant responsibility for the financial well being of the Parish and as distasteful as it is that such appeals are deemed necessary he is right to be making them if the situation dictates.

An anonymous letter, while it may be comforting for the OP, would, in my view, be very disrespectful to the Priest who has probably spent the majority of his life serving the Church and parishioners. Someone who is continuing to serve that Church despite having passed retirement age. I’m not sure that I’d want to be coping with Parish politics and complaints when I could quite easily call the Bishop and leave. The only thing keeping him in the Parish is the fact God called him to serve him as a Priest, he’s probably more aware than anyone that he’s not worthy of that but he and all of those other Priests who have retired and continue to work to fill gaps deserve our thanks and prayers.

If the OP deems it necessary then a signed letter or ideally a conversation is the best way of dealing with it initially.

 

[snhs]

It is however acceptable to draw inferences from the topic and style of writing as to the gender involved. Had he used ‘he’ then doubtless he’d have been criticised for that by someone else.

I don’t think he ever suggested it was all in the OP’s head what he did suggest was that it is one persons view on a Priest. This gives a very biased view which is only giving a partial take on the whole story. He also appeared to suggest that certain people may be being uncharitable towards the Priest and I’m inclined to agree with him.

If it is putting the financial stability of the Parish in jeopardy then it is a legitimate thing for the Priest to speak about. The OP mentioned the lack of a nursery, maybe if the Parish had the kind of funds the Priest is seeking they would be able to finance one. Equally if he didn’t advocate funding then he would probably be criticised for not being proactive enough. The Priest has significant responsibility for the financial well being of the Parish and as distasteful as it is that such appeals are deemed necessary he is right to be making them if the situation dictates.

An anonymous letter, while it may be comforting for the OP, would, in my view, be very disrespectful to the Priest who has probably spent the majority of his life serving the Church and parishioners. Someone who is continuing to serve the Church despite having passed retirement age. I’m not sure that I’d want to be coping with Parish politics and complaints when I could quite easily call the Bishop and leave. The only thing keeping him in the Parish is the fact God called him to serve him as a Priest, he’s probably more aware than anyone that he’s not worthy of that but he and all of those other Priests who have retired and continue to work to fill gaps deserve our thanks and prayers.

If the OP deems it necessary then a signed letter or ideally a conversation is the best way of dealing with it initially.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Our former pastor once had a situation where he had just started his homily, and a baby sitting near the front, began to cry. He tried to speak over the crying baby, to no avail. Finally, he just looked at the mother and said, “I’m not going to win here,” meaning, he wasn’t going to succeed in speaking louder than the baby was screaming. The mother took the hint and got up and went to the vestibule.

What else was he suppose to do. Stop the homely and have everyone wait for the baby to settle down?

Some parents are brain dead when it comes to how distracting their toddlers can be. When my children were at an age where they were too difficult to settle down through a Mass, my wife and myself merely agreed that we would go to separate Masses. Trust me, it doesn’t harm the children to have them not attend Mass, when they’re two years old. It was only a year or two before the children were old enough to handle it.

I think parents need to respect their priest and their fellow parishioners, who are trying to attend Mass. Also, most parents I see with disruptive toddlers, get very little if anything out of the Mass themselves. I wonder, why bother?

Its ironic that at our town meeting, it is the by-law of the town, that children under the age of 12, are not allowed at the meeting. People fully accept this. Yet, they get bent out of shape, if a priest ask that they move to the crying room or to the vestibule, until the child settles down.

Jim

 

[drafdog]

Tietjen,
I’m just a professional grandfather who knows that a deep baritone voice is soothing to infants. I hold the little one in my arms and speak softly and comfortingly and soon the baby is asleep. I’ve been able to do this since I was a teen. My daughters think I’m a magic grandpa.

Matthew

 

[PaixGioiaAmor]

It sounds like you can - and probably should - get out of this parish. I’m sure many others have and many will follow. Come back when they get a priest who is actually pastoral.

And for all those saying that we can’t judge a priest by the acount of one person when we weren’t there: I’ll remember that the next time someone posts that their priest divided up the gospel between him and a lay person. When everyone screams “Write the bishop!”, I’ll remind you that we weren’t there and this was the acount of only one person.

 

[catharina]

Tietjen, Your responses were magnificently charitable. There are many of traditional ethnic cultures who would be horrifed to hear people criticizing a much older person. (The Chinese and the Hispanic come to mind.)

It’s perfectly clear to me that many are quite willing to bash priests today - and I don’t mean the OP who seems to be hoping to cope with a situation that is a great struggle for him.

I’m very far from perfect. In my parish, one of the permanent deacons gives the homily at the last Mass on Sundays. Once I figured out the timing (of assignments), I’ve never returned to the last Mass on Sundays. This poor man, married and of very comfortable means, will likely never be able to present an idea or theme that nourishes me in my faith or for my work. No problem for me, since I’m able to choose from among three other Masses scheduled for Sunday and another evening Mass on Saturday.

At other times in my life, I’ve been at Mass where the priest seemed truly troubled and was often irritated with servers and/or those in attendance. Still - he was the PRIEST. Would I rather have done without him? NOPE. No way at all!

The priest shortage of today means that many priests, especially older ones, are over-worked and, in too many cases, LONELY.

OP, pray for him - and offer a kind word now and then. If he is older as you’ve said, then it’s almost certain that he has some health issues that can bother him a little or a lot. REACH OUT.