Unstructured Thread...

[Isa_Almisry]

I know it. have you heard of the fights they been having in the church in Jerusalem? aparently they dont know how to share the same church. they have been stepping into each others boundaries. they have been going at. they actually been having physical fights.

Who’s they? The Latins are also there, fighting with the best of them. I know, I’ve been there a couple times.

The Crimean War started because Napolean demanded the Orthodox put a Latin silver star in the Church of the Nativity. So don’t open that can of worms.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Luke 1:55 - Mary says that He spoke to our “fathers,” to Abraham and to his posterity for ever.

Luke 1:73 - Zechariah says the oath which he swore to our “father” Abraham.

Luke 16:24,30 - Jesus, in His parable about the rich man, says our “father” Abraham.

John 4:12 - the Samaritan woman asks Jesus if He is greater than our “father” Jacob.

John 7:22 - Jesus refers to the “fathers” who gave the Jews the practice of circumcision.

John 8:56 - Jesus tells the Jews your “Father” Abraham rejoiced that he was to see my day.

Acts 3:13,25; 5:30 - Peter teaches that the God of our “fathers” glorified His servant Jesus and raised Him to life.

Acts 4:25 - Peter and John pray to God and refer to our “father” David.

Acts 7:11-12, 15,19,38,44-45,51-52 - Stephen refers to our “fathers” in the faith.

Acts 7:32 - Stephen calls God the God of our “fathers.”

Acts 13:17,32,36; 24:14; 26:6; 28:17,25 - Paul also refers to the God of our “fathers” in the faith.

Acts 22:3 - Paul says he was educated according to the strict law of our “fathers.”

Acts 22:14 - Ananias says the God of our “fathers.”

Rom. 4:1 - Paul calls Abraham our “forefather.”

Rom. 4:16-17 - Paul says that Abraham is the “father” of us all and the “father” of many nations.

Rom. 9:10 - Paul calls Isaac, a spiritual leader, our “forefather.”

1 Cor. 10:1 - Paul says that our “fathers” were all under the cloud, referring to the Old Testament spiritual leaders.

Gal. 1:14 - Paul says that he was zealous for the tradition of his “fathers.”

2 Tim. 1:3 - Paul thanks God whom he serves with a clear conscience as did his “fathers” in faith.

Heb. 1:1 - the author says God spoke of old to our “fathers.”

Heb. 3:9 - the Holy Spirit says that your “fathers” put me to the test.

Heb. 8:9 - God says not like the covenant that I made with their “fathers.”

James 2:21 - James says was not our “father” Abraham justified by works when he offered his son Isaac?

1 Peter 1:18 - Peter says you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your “fathers.”

2 Peter 3:4 - Peter says ever since the “fathers” fell asleep, all things have continued as they were from the beginning.

Top

III. Other Examples Where Jesus Uses the Word “Father” When Teaching
Matt. 15:4-5; 19:19 - Jesus uses “father” when He teaches God’s commandment to “Honor your father and your mother.”

Mark 7:10-12; Luke 18:20 - these are more examples of Jesus using “father” when teaching about honoring our fathers and mothers.

Eph. 6:2,4 - Paul also teaches to honor your “father” and mother, and says “fathers,” do not provoke your children.

Matt. 10:21; 35,37; Mark 13:12 - Jesus says “father” will deliver up his child in the last days.

Matt. 19:5; Mark 10:7,19 - Jesus says a man shall leave his “father” and mother and be joined to his wife. See also Eph. 5:31.

Matt. 19:29; Mark 10:29-30 - Jesus says whoever has left mother or “father” for His sake shall receive a hundredfold.

Matt. 21:31 - Jesus uses “father” when he teaches about the parable of the two sons and asks, "who did the will of his “father?”

Luke 6:23,26 - Jesus speaks about reward and punishment with reference to what their “fathers” did to the prophets.

Luke 11:11 - Jesus says what “father” among you will give his child a serpent when he asks for a fish.

Luke 11:47-48 - Jesus tells the lawyers they are witnesses to the deeds of their “fathers.”

Luke 14:26 - Jesus says we must leave our “fathers” and mothers and come to him, or we cannot be His disciple.

Luke 15:12,17-18,20-22,27-29 - Jesus repeatedly uses “father” when teaching about the prodigal son.

Luke 16:27 - Jesus uses “father” when teaching about the rich man in purgatory.

John 6:49,58 - Jesus says your “fathers” ate the manna in the wilderness and died.

Everytime you see the word “father” there, read it in Greek.
You’ll get papas. Or pope.

scripturecatholic.com/the_priesthood.html

Since I went all through the trouble above, why don’t YOU post the verses in Greek, boldfacing the word “papas” πάπας?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

(deep breath…)

Hay…Isa, do you like apples?

Well how do you like them apples?

You should check out some of these on your list:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_synod

It has a lovely picture of some rotten apples.

I’d print a list of the Patriarchs of Antioch, Successors of St. Peter from Ignatius I to Ignatius IV, but Matthew 7:6.

Btw, you still haven’t told us if pope is in John 8:44.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Well, my girlfriend is Orthoodox, she just placed a call to a Greek Orthodox family member who’s very devout.

She told me that based on what has been said here, the persons who said these things are “not” Orthodox Christians, but probably members of one of the lesser Orthodox Churches that may or not be in communion with The Orhodox Church.

I also just find out that the Greeks and The Russians are “not” united (as it’s been so proclaimed here) and that they are in schism.

If that’s what your girlfriend is telling you, then who is SHE under?

I’m under Patriarch Ignatius IV of Antioch, Mickey I believe is under Metropolitan Herman of Washington. Both are in communion with each other, with Patriarch Alexei II of Moscow, and with Ecumenical Patriarch Barthalomew I.

And the Greeks and Russians have strained relations, like your church in America with Rome, but there’s no “schism.”

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Hello

A lot less than the 7 X 70 times Jesus requires us to forgive.

but exactly the number of times he denied is the exactly the number he is asked to declare his love for Christ. Or did you lose count?

There can only be “one” leader. How many Jesuses were there?

Correction “are there.” There is only one Jesus. I AM.

And all the Churches answered to Peter.

Oh, they seemed to lose interest in him after Acts 12.

Even Paul had to meet with Peter before he could go about his own ministry waiting 3 years “after” having been confronted by Christ, but not beginning “until” he conferred with Peter first.

Already answered.

I think you don’t know what “leader” means…allow me to define it for you:

Something in Aramaic or Greek please, per our previous post.

Now, how could Peter possibly take care of alllllll of Jesus’ lambs (martyrs) when he’d die within a hundred years? Common sense…He was referring to the lambs that He had right there and right then. The 10 remaining Apostles.

He was refering to the ones Peter was going to shephard. Besides that, have you gone Protestant on us, on what the saints do after falling asleep?

People just need to accept what’s written. Not what’s “not” written.

You mean like “pope”?

Demons confessed that Jesus was the Messiah too. Are they “rocks”?

Are you bringing Matthew 16:23 up again?

But only one Apostle was chosen to feed them.

See below, ex cathedra.

Now, where in The Bible does it state that Jesus picked any other Apostle besides Peter to tend His Sheep?

I already quoted St. Peter. If you won’t believe him, you won’t believe me.

1 Peter 5:2 **ποιμάνατε ** το εν υμιν ποιμνιον του θεου επισκοπουντες μη αναγκαστως αλλ εκουσιως μηδε αισχροκερδως αλλα προθυμως

 

[VARC]

Again, stating that something not existing in Christ’s time or using the number of years as a reference of something’s validity is pretty dangerous for the member of a 950 year old Church.
Pax.

You are asserting that the Orthodox church somehow was created in 1050. Prove it. What changes did the Orthodox make to warrant your accusation of starting a new church. Did they change the creed? Did they change the Apostolic practice of distributing both forms of the eucharist? Did they stop charismation(confirmation) of baptized infants? Did they stop using the Apostolic method of triple immersion baptism? No they did not. The Orthodox of 1050 professed the same creed and practiced the same sacramental practices of the Church in 350. You tell me who changed?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Isa Almisry;3269694:

Again question avoider…to whom did He give this authority to “first”?

(There’s that pesky Primacy issue again! Darn! I’m sure you’re kicking yourself for even bringing up the “first” issue as having any kind of relevance)

Matthew 16:18, the relevant verb is in the future:
και δωσω σοι τας κλεις της βασιλειας των ουρανων και ο εαν δησης επι της γης εσται δεδεμενον εν τοις ουρανοις και ο εαν λυσης επι της γης εσται λελυμενον εν τοις ουρανοις
ܐܬܠܠܟ
ܩܠܝܕܐ ܕܡܠܟܘܬܐ ܕܫܡܝܐ ܘܟܠ ܡܕܡ ܕܬܐܤܘܪ ܒܐܪܥܐ ܢܗܘܐ ܐܤܝܪ ܒܫܡܝܐ ܘܡܕܡ ܕܬܫܪܐ ܒܐܪܥܐ ܢܗܘܐ ܫܪܐ ܒܫܡܝܐ
Matthew 18:18, the relevant verbs is in the present.
αμην λεγω υμιν οσα εαν δησητε επι της γης εσται δεδεμενα εν τω ουρανω και οσα εαν λυσητε επι της γης εσται λελυμενα εν τω ουρανω
ܘܐܡܝܢܐܢܐ ܠܟܘܢ ܕܟܠ ܡܐ ܕܬܐܤܪܘܢ ܒܐܪܥܐ ܢܗܘܐ ܐܡܪ ܐܤܝܪ ܒܫܡܝܐ ܘܡܕܡ ܕܬܫܪܘܢ ܒܐܪܥܐ ܢܗܘܐ ܫܪܐ ܒܫܡܝܐ

I’ll ask you the same thing I asked you comrade…“Who are the lambs” if they are not the Apostles that were slain as lambs as Jesus was?

You’ve been answered a number of times. Maybe you will listen to St. Paul. Galatians 2:7.

I might continue your tedious post later, but I am beginning to question your grasp of English, let alone any Bibical languages.

 

[wisdomseeker]

You are asserting that the Orthodox church somehow was created in 1050. Prove it. What changes did the Orthodox make to warrant your accusation of starting a new church. Did they change the creed? Did they change the Apostolic practice of distributing both forms of the eucharist? Did they stop charismation(confirmation) of baptized infants? Did they stop using the Apostolic method of triple immersion baptism? No they did not. The Orthodox of 1050 professed the same creed and practiced the same sacramental practices of the Church in 350. You tell me who changed?

Is it not the Orthodoxy churches like the Anglican churches they all are under the power of the government in the country they are? while the Roman Churche stand alone under the Power of Jesus alone? whose church is Jesus the head?

 

[2ndGen]

You are asserting that the Orthodox church somehow was created in 1050. Prove it. What changes did the Orthodox make to warrant your accusation of starting a new church. Did they change the creed? Did they change the Apostolic practice of distributing both forms of the eucharist? Did they stop charismation(confirmation) of baptized infants? Did they stop using the Apostolic method of triple immersion baptism? No they did not. The Orthodox of 1050 professed the same creed and practiced the same sacramental practices of the Church in 350. You tell me who changed?

There was no “Orthodox Church” before they left us.

They were Catholic Churches, but once they left us, they changed their name to Orthodox Churches.

As for their doctrines, creeds, etc…their famous for their not evolving spiritually. For them, revelation just stopped…as if God stopped talking to their religious leaders. Their growth of religious understanding ceased. Nothing else was revealed to them. I don’t know when this happened, but I’m assuming it was after their rejection of The Church. And thus, their Churches stopped growing as well.

Even in The Bible, there were issues that weren’t fully resolved or understood when Jesus was around and weren’t confirmed until “after” Jesus left The Church physically. In fact, the very Bible didn’t exist in Jesus time as a collection of books or even as written Scripture. “That” in itself is a “change” from how Jesus taught. Jesus never quoted from The Catholic Letters of The New Testament…so are they “not” to be included in The Bible?

If Christianity was like what The Orthodox Church claims to be, if we were to “really” become orthodox in what the word really means, we’d have no Bible and no doctrines. We would have to be as The Apostles and Jesus were “while” Jesus was around.

Therefore, the argument that their “orthodox” Christians (small c) is not entirely true. They use Catholic Bibles and Catholic Saints and Catholic Sacraments.

Unless you can show me where The Orthodox Church existed as it does today “before” they left universal Christianity?

And I am not saying this to you offensively. I’m just pointing out the very real truths that the claims that The Orthodox Church has never changed from original Christianity is not true and that they never existed before they left The Church as they exist today. That alone is change. Maybe they could say that they didn’t change since 1054 AD and I’ll accept that, but Christianity has always grown and evolved and has always been revealed new things by The Holy Spirit.

Jesus never said “Grow up until a certain point and stop growing after that.”

In fact, He did say that things would be revealed to His followers as The Holy Spirit came unto them. This is “changing” from when they were with Him to when they were without Him.

As far as I’m concerned, The Orthodox Church can worship however they want to worship. But when it comes to their understanding that spiritual growth is not correct for the followers of Christ, they’re wrong as far as Christianity goes.

That’s not a Catholic Christian view exclusively, that’s a Biblical view.

And this is why Orthodox Christians don’t have any gripes with Catholics. They didn’t go off to make their own Churches…they just separated their Churches from The Universal Body of Christ.

They changed when they left the universal Church. They “stopped” believing in The Office of The Pope.

Believe me, I’m the first one to state that The Orthodox Church ceased to receive continual revelation and ceased to grow spiritually. They are still worshipping as if the world stopped in 1054.

And that’s cool…for them.

For Christianity, we are part of a living organism that grows as do all “bodies”.

 

[wisdomseeker]

2ndGen;3269887:

Matthew 16:18, the relevant verb is in the future:
και δωσω

σοι τας κλεις της βασιλειας των ουρανων και ο εαν δησης επι της γης εσται δεδεμενον εν τοις ουρανοις και ο εαν λυσης επι της γης εσται λελυμενον εν τοις ουρανοις
ܐܬܠܠܟ
ܩܠܝܕܐ ܕܡܠܟܘܬܐ ܕܫܡܝܐ ܘܟܠ ܡܕܡ ܕܬܐܤܘܪ ܒܐܪܥܐ ܢܗܘܐ ܐܤܝܪ ܒܫܡܝܐ ܘܡܕܡ ܕܬܫܪܐ ܒܐܪܥܐ ܢܗܘܐ ܫܪܐ ܒܫܡܝܐ
Matthew 18:18, the relevant verbs is in the present.
αμην λεγω υμιν οσα εαν δησητε επι της γης εσται δεδεμενα εν τω ουρανω και οσα εαν λυσητε επι της γης εσται λελυμενα εν τω ουρανω
ܘܐܡܝܢܐܢܐ ܠܟܘܢ ܕܟܠ ܡܐ ܕܬܐܤܪܘܢ ܒܐܪܥܐ ܢܗܘܐ ܐܡܪ ܐܤܝܪ ܒܫܡܝܐ ܘܡܕܡ ܕܬܫܪܘܢ ܒܐܪܥܐ ܢܗܘܐ ܫܪܐ ܒܫܡܝܐ

You’ve been answered a number of times. Maybe you will listen to St. Paul. Galatians 2:7.

I might continue your tedious post later, but I am beginning to question your grasp of English, let alone any Bibical languages.

You people can deny the primacy of Peter all you want it does not matter. if Jesus commanded Peter to lead his sheep, doesn’t that make him a leader? if you your boss for a while leaves the company your work for it and he tells you i want you to take care of things around here for me while i am gone. what you gonna do? did he not leave you in charge?

 

[2ndGen]

2ndGen;3269887:

Matthew 16:18, the relevant verb is in the future:
και δωσω

σοι τας κλεις της βασιλειας των ουρανων και ο εαν δησης επι της γης εσται δεδεμενον εν τοις ουρανοις και ο εαν λυσης επι της γης εσται λελυμενον εν τοις ουρανοις
ܐܬܠܠܟ
ܩܠܝܕܐ ܕܡܠܟܘܬܐ ܕܫܡܝܐ ܘܟܠ ܡܕܡ ܕܬܐܤܘܪ ܒܐܪܥܐ ܢܗܘܐ ܐܤܝܪ ܒܫܡܝܐ ܘܡܕܡ ܕܬܫܪܐ ܒܐܪܥܐ ܢܗܘܐ ܫܪܐ ܒܫܡܝܐ
Matthew 18:18, the relevant verbs is in the present.
αμην λεγω υμιν οσα εαν δησητε επι της γης εσται δεδεμενα εν τω ουρανω και οσα εαν λυσητε επι της γης εσται λελυμενα εν τω ουρανω
ܘܐܡܝܢܐܢܐ ܠܟܘܢ ܕܟܠ ܡܐ ܕܬܐܤܪܘܢ ܒܐܪܥܐ ܢܗܘܐ ܐܡܪ ܐܤܝܪ ܒܫܡܝܐ ܘܡܕܡ ܕܬܫܪܘܢ ܒܐܪܥܐ ܢܗܘܐ ܫܪܐ ܒܫܡܝܐ

You’ve been answered a number of times. Maybe you will listen to St. Paul. Galatians 2:7.

I might continue your tedious post later, but I am beginning to question your grasp of English, let alone any Bibical languages.


Wow. So much “work” while I slept like a baby!

Funny thing is, most of the quotes you attributed to me are not my words!



“verbs?”

Where is the mention of The Apostles being given The Keys of The Kingdom of Heaven?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but again the question was to whom did Peter say that He “would” give The Keys of The Kingdom of Heaven to “first”?

How could you be so fluent in Greek (and I’m assuming that rest is Arabic or Aramaic), yet have such a poor command of The English Language?

Let me try this as if you’re in Kindergarten:

To
who
did
Jesus
say
He
would
give
The
Keys
of
The
Kingdom
of
Heaven
to
first?

Oh, wait, just in case you don’t understand what “first” means:

first
–adjective

1. being before all others with respect to time, order, rank, importance, etc., used as the ordinal number of one: the first edition; the first vice president.
2. Music. highest or chief among several voices or instruments of the same class: first alto; first horn.
3. Automotive. low (def. 31).
4. (often initial capital letter) being a member of the household or an intimate acquaintance of the president of the U.S. or of the governor of a state: the First Lady; Checkers, the first dog.
   –adverb
5. before all others or anything else in time, order, rank, etc.
6. before some other thing, event, etc.: If you’re going, phone first.
7. for the first time: She first visited Atlanta in 1980.
8. in preference to something else; rather; sooner: I’d die first.
9. in the first place; firstly.
   –noun 10. the person or thing that is first in time, order, rank, etc.
10. the beginning.
11. the first part; first member of a series.
12. Music. a. the voice or instrument that takes the highest or chief part in its class, esp. in an orchestra or chorus.
    b. a leader of a part or group of performers.
13. Automotive. low gear; first gear: She shifted into first and drove off.
14. the winning position or rank in a race or other competition. 16. Baseball. first base.
15. Usually, firsts. Commerce. a. a product or goods of the first or highest quality.
    b. goods produced according to specifications, without visible flaws. Compare second1 (def. 23), third (def. 12).
16. British University. a. first-class honors. Compare class (def. 18).
    b. a person who has won such honors.
    —Idioms
17. first and last, everything considered; above all else; altogether: First and last, it is important to know oneself.
18. first off, Informal. at the outset; immediately: He wanted to know first off why he hadn’t been notified.
19. first thing, before anything else; at once; promptly: I’ll call you first thing when I arrive.

I didn’t ask you whether or not Jesus appointed the other Apostles to positions of authorty in The Church (in fact, Catholic Doctrine relies on that).

The question is, who did Jesus choose/tell “first”?

First?

Why can’t you just answer the question as it is written?

Wait, maybe this is simple enough for you…list these Chapters in their chronological order:

Matthew 15
Matthew 19
Matthew 17
Matthew 18
Matthew 16

From top to bottom, arrange them in the order that they appear in The Bible, the top reference being the “first” with the last refernce being the “last” of this particular list.

And…Go!

:coffeeread:

Other questions you didn’t answer:

Did Jesus give The Keys of The Kingdom of Heaven to Peter’s confession? A group of words? (which in reality weren’t Peter’s words, but God’s words revealed to Peter)

Was Jesus calling Peter’s confession a person when He referred to them as “you” when He said “to you I will give The Keys of The Kingdom of Heaven”?

Do you believe that the sheep and lamb are the same group and if so, whey did Jesus separate them? (since you said that the lambs are the sheep)

You do understand that the sheep and lamb thing being the same completely put Peter in charge of The Apostles too if they are both one in the same and this clearly sets Peter apart from the lambs/sheep combination, right?

New question?
When you say that you’re “under” a Patriarch, how is that since Orthodox Christians supposedly “don’t” beleive in having religious authorities over them?

 

[wisdomseeker]

Isa Almisry;3270576:

Wow. So much “work” while I slept like a baby!

Funny thing is, most of the quotes you attributed to me are not my words!



“verbs?”

Where is the mention of The Apostles being given The Keys of The Kingdom of Heaven?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but again the question was to whom did Peter say that He “would” give The Keys of The Kingdom of Heaven to “first”?

How could you be so fluent in Greek (and I’m assuming that rest is Arabic or Aramaic), yet have such a poor command of The English Language?

Let me try this as if you’re in Kindergarten:

To
who
did
Jesus
say
He
would
give
The
Keys
of
The
Kingdom
of
Heaven
to
first?

Oh, wait, just in case you don’t understand what “first” means:

first

–adjective

1. being before all others with respect to time, order, rank, importance, etc., used as the ordinal number of one: the first edition; the first vice president.
2. Music. highest or chief among several voices or instruments of the same class: first alto; first horn.
3. Automotive. low (def. 31).
4. (often initial capital letter) being a member of the household or an intimate acquaintance of the president of the U.S. or of the governor of a state: the First Lady; Checkers, the first dog.
   –adverb
5. before all others or anything else in time, order, rank, etc.
6. before some other thing, event, etc.: If you’re going, phone first.
7. for the first time: She first visited Atlanta in 1980.
8. in preference to something else; rather; sooner: I’d die first.
9. in the first place; firstly.
   –noun 10. the person or thing that is first in time, order, rank, etc.
10. the beginning.
11. the first part; first member of a series.
12. Music. a. the voice or instrument that takes the highest or chief part in its class, esp. in an orchestra or chorus.
    b. a leader of a part or group of performers.
13. Automotive. low gear; first gear: She shifted into first and drove off.
14. the winning position or rank in a race or other competition. 16. Baseball. first base.
15. Usually, firsts. Commerce. a. a product or goods of the first or highest quality.
    b. goods produced according to specifications, without visible flaws. Compare second1 (def. 23), third (def. 12).
16. British University. a. first-class honors. Compare class (def. 18).
    b. a person who has won such honors.
    —Idioms
17. first and last, everything considered; above all else; altogether: First and last, it is important to know oneself.
18. first off, Informal. at the outset; immediately: He wanted to know first off why he hadn’t been notified.
19. first thing, before anything else; at once; promptly: I’ll call you first thing when I arrive.

I didn’t ask you whether or not Jesus appointed the other Apostles to positions of authorty in The Church (in fact, Catholic Doctrine relies on that).

The question is, who did Jesus choose/tell “first”?

First?

Why can’t you just answer the question as it is written?

Wait, maybe this is simple enough for you…list these Chapters in their chronological order:

Matthew 15
Matthew 19
Matthew 17
Matthew 18
Matthew 16

From top to bottom, arrange them in the order that they appear in The Bible, the top reference being the “first” with the last refernce being the “last” of this particular list.

And…Go!

:coffeeread:

Other questions you didn’t answer:

Did Jesus give The Keys of The Kingdom of Heaven to Peter’s confession? A group of words? (which in reality weren’t Peter’s words, but God’s words revealed to Peter)

Was Jesus calling Peter’s confession a person when He referred to them as “you” when He said “to you I will give The Keys of The Kingdom of Heaven”?

Do you believe that the sheep and lamb are the same group and if so, whey did Jesus separate them? (since you said that the lambs are the sheep)

You do understand that the sheep and lamb thing being the same completely put Peter in charge of The Apostles too if they are both one in the same and this clearly sets Peter apart from the lambs/sheep combination, right?

New question?
When you say that you’re “under” a Patriarch, how is that since Orthodox Christians supposedly “don’t” beleive in having religious authorities over them?

one more question: who had a vision Jesus saying do not reject the unclean animals for I have made them clean. was it James? was it Andrew? was it John? wait a minute, could be Peter? oh uaw! why Peter?

 

[2ndGen]

2ndGen;3271529:

one more question: who had a vision Jesus saying do not reject the unclean animals for I have made them clean. was it James? was it Andrew? was it John? wait a minute, could be Peter? oh uaw! why Peter?

Here are all the times that Peter comes “first” among The Apostles:

(Just The Gospels alone!)

Matt. to Rev. - Peter is mentioned 155 times and the rest of apostles combined are only mentioned 130 times. Peter is also always listed first except in 1 Cor. 3:22 and Gal. 2:9 (which are obvious exceptions to the rule).

Matt. 10:2; Mark 1:36; 3:16; Luke 6:14-16; Acts 1:3; 2:37; 5:29 - these are some of many examples where Peter is mentioned first among the apostles.

Matt. 14:28-29 - only Peter has the faith to walk on water. No other man in Scripture is said to have the faith to walk on water. This faith ultimately did not fail.

Matt. 16:16, Mark 8:29; John 6:69 - Peter is first among the apostles to confess the divinity of Christ.

Matt. 16:17 - Peter alone is told he has received divine knowledge by a special revelation from God the Father.

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus builds the Church only on Peter, the rock, with the other apostles as the foundation and Jesus as the Head.

Matt. 16:19 - only Peter receives the keys, which represent authority over the Church and facilitate dynastic succession to his authority.

Matt. 17:24-25 - the tax collector approaches Peter for Jesus’ tax. Peter is the spokesman for Jesus. He is the Vicar of Christ.

Matt. 17:26-27 - Jesus pays the half-shekel tax with one shekel, for both Jesus and Peter. Peter is Christ’s representative on earth.

Matt. 18:21 - in the presence of the disciples, Peter asks Jesus about the rule of forgiveness. One of many examples where Peter takes a leadership role among the apostles in understanding Jesus’ teachings.

Matt. 19:27 - Peter speaks on behalf of the apostles by telling Jesus that they have left everything to follow Him.

Mark 10:28 - here also, Peter speaks on behalf of the disciples by declaring that they have left everything to follow Him.

Mark 11:21 - Peter speaks on behalf of the disciples in remembering Jesus’ curse on the fig tree.

Mark 14:37 - at Gethsemane, Jesus asks Peter, and no one else, why he was asleep. Peter is accountable to Jesus for his actions on behalf of the apostles because he has been appointed by Jesus as their leader.

Mark 16:7 - Peter is specified by an angel as the leader of the apostles as the angel confirms the resurrection of Christ.

Luke 5:3 – Jesus teaches from Peter’s boat which is metaphor for the Church. Jesus guides Peter and the Church into all truth.

Luke 5:4,10 - Jesus instructs Peter to let down the nets for a catch, and the miraculous catch follows. Peter, the Pope, is the “fisher of men.”

Luke 7:40-50- Jesus addresses Peter regarding the rule of forgiveness and Peter answers on behalf of the disciples. Jesus also singles Peter out and judges his conduct vis-à-vis the conduct of the woman who anointed Him.

Luke 8:45 - when Jesus asked who touched His garment, it is Peter who answers on behalf of the disciples.

Luke 8:51; 9:28; 22:8; Acts 1:13; 3:1,3,11; 4:13,19; 8:14 - Peter is always mentioned before John, the disciple whom Jesus loved.

Luke 9:28;33 - Peter is mentioned first as going to mountain of transfiguration and the only one to speak at the transfiguration.

Luke 12:41 - Peter seeks clarification of a parable on behalf on the disciples. This is part of Peter’s formation as the chief shepherd of the flock after Jesus ascended into heaven.

Luke 22:31-32 - Jesus prays for Peter alone, that his faith may not fail, and charges him to strengthen the rest of the apostles.

Luke 24:12, John 20:4-6 - John arrived at the tomb first but stopped and waited for Peter. Peter then arrived and entered the tomb first.

Luke 24:34 - the two disciples distinguish Peter even though they both had seen the risen Jesus the previous hour. See Luke 24:33.

John 6:68 - after the disciples leave, Peter is the first to speak and confess his belief in Christ after the Eucharistic discourse.

John 13:6-9 - Peter speaks out to the Lord in front of the apostles concerning the washing of feet.

John 13:36; 21:18 - Jesus predicts Peter’s death. Peter was martyred at Rome in 67 A.D. Several hundred years of papal successors were also martyred.

John 21:2-3,11 - Peter leads the fishing and his net does not break. The boat (the “barque of Peter”) is a metaphor for the Church.

John 21:7 - only Peter got out of the boat and ran to the shore to meet Jesus. Peter is the earthly shepherd leading us to God.

John 21:15 - in front of the apostles, Jesus asks Peter if he loves Jesus “more than these,” which refers to the other apostles. Peter is the head of the apostolic see.

John 21:15-17 - Jesus charges Peter to “feed my lambs,” “tend my sheep,” “feed my sheep.” Sheep means all people, even the apostles.

 

[wisdomseeker]

wisdomseeker;3271564:

Here are all the times that Peter comes “first” among The Apostles:

(Just The Gospels alone!)

Matt. to Rev. - Peter is mentioned 155 times and the rest of apostles combined are only mentioned 130 times. Peter is also always listed first except in 1 Cor. 3:22 and Gal. 2:9 (which are obvious exceptions to the rule).

Matt. 10:2; Mark 1:36; 3:16; Luke 6:14-16; Acts 1:3; 2:37; 5:29 - these are some of many examples where Peter is mentioned first among the apostles.

Matt. 14:28-29 - only Peter has the faith to walk on water. No other man in Scripture is said to have the faith to walk on water. This faith ultimately did not fail.

Matt. 16:16, Mark 8:29; John 6:69 - Peter is first among the apostles to confess the divinity of Christ.

Matt. 16:17 - Peter alone is told he has received divine knowledge by a special revelation from God the Father.

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus builds the Church only on Peter, the rock, with the other apostles as the foundation and Jesus as the Head.

Matt. 16:19 - only Peter receives the keys, which represent authority over the Church and facilitate dynastic succession to his authority.

Matt. 17:24-25 - the tax collector approaches Peter for Jesus’ tax. Peter is the spokesman for Jesus. He is the Vicar of Christ.

Matt. 17:26-27 - Jesus pays the half-shekel tax with one shekel, for both Jesus and Peter. Peter is Christ’s representative on earth.

Matt. 18:21 - in the presence of the disciples, Peter asks Jesus about the rule of forgiveness. One of many examples where Peter takes a leadership role among the apostles in understanding Jesus’ teachings.

Matt. 19:27 - Peter speaks on behalf of the apostles by telling Jesus that they have left everything to follow Him.

Mark 10:28 - here also, Peter speaks on behalf of the disciples by declaring that they have left everything to follow Him.

Mark 11:21 - Peter speaks on behalf of the disciples in remembering Jesus’ curse on the fig tree.

Mark 14:37 - at Gethsemane, Jesus asks Peter, and no one else, why he was asleep. Peter is accountable to Jesus for his actions on behalf of the apostles because he has been appointed by Jesus as their leader.

Mark 16:7 - Peter is specified by an angel as the leader of the apostles as the angel confirms the resurrection of Christ.

Luke 5:3 – Jesus teaches from Peter’s boat which is metaphor for the Church. Jesus guides Peter and the Church into all truth.

Luke 5:4,10 - Jesus instructs Peter to let down the nets for a catch, and the miraculous catch follows. Peter, the Pope, is the “fisher of men.”

Luke 7:40-50- Jesus addresses Peter regarding the rule of forgiveness and Peter answers on behalf of the disciples. Jesus also singles Peter out and judges his conduct vis-à-vis the conduct of the woman who anointed Him.

Luke 8:45 - when Jesus asked who touched His garment, it is Peter who answers on behalf of the disciples.

Luke 8:51; 9:28; 22:8; Acts 1:13; 3:1,3,11; 4:13,19; 8:14 - Peter is always mentioned before John, the disciple whom Jesus loved.

Luke 9:28;33 - Peter is mentioned first as going to mountain of transfiguration and the only one to speak at the transfiguration.

Luke 12:41 - Peter seeks clarification of a parable on behalf on the disciples. This is part of Peter’s formation as the chief shepherd of the flock after Jesus ascended into heaven.

Luke 22:31-32 - Jesus prays for Peter alone, that his faith may not fail, and charges him to strengthen the rest of the apostles.

Luke 24:12, John 20:4-6 - John arrived at the tomb first but stopped and waited for Peter. Peter then arrived and entered the tomb first.

Luke 24:34 - the two disciples distinguish Peter even though they both had seen the risen Jesus the previous hour. See Luke 24:33.

John 6:68 - after the disciples leave, Peter is the first to speak and confess his belief in Christ after the Eucharistic discourse.

John 13:6-9 - Peter speaks out to the Lord in front of the apostles concerning the washing of feet.

John 13:36; 21:18 - Jesus predicts Peter’s death. Peter was martyred at Rome in 67 A.D. Several hundred years of papal successors were also martyred.

John 21:2-3,11 - Peter leads the fishing and his net does not break. The boat (the “barque of Peter”) is a metaphor for the Church.

John 21:7 - only Peter got out of the boat and ran to the shore to meet Jesus. Peter is the earthly shepherd leading us to God.

John 21:15 - in front of the apostles, Jesus asks Peter if he loves Jesus “more than these,” which refers to the other apostles. Peter is the head of the apostolic see.

John 21:15-17 - Jesus charges Peter to “feed my lambs,” “tend my sheep,” “feed my sheep.” Sheep means all people, even the apostles.

Also, faith and reason tells me that Jesus knew exactly what people would do to his church, so He left us a sign so we would know exactly where His Church would be. He left us the Pope, so where this Pope is, we also would be with him, all his sheeps.

 

[2ndGen]

2ndGen;3271595:

Also, faith and reason tells me that Jesus knew exactly what people would do to his church, so He left us a sign so we would know exactly where His Church would be. He left us the Pope, so where this Pope is, we also would be with him, all his sheeps.

On top of all of that,
how many Jesuses were there to lead The Church?

Only one.

Why would He leave us different leaders then after He left to lead us in different directions?

There can only be one shephard of The Flock (not many different shephards). Some would insist that Jesus is The One Shephard…but since there are so many flocks (churches), which is the one He’s the Shephard of?

Can one Shephard be the pastor of different flocks that contradict “how” they beleive in Him?



Gosh I love being Catholic!

I don’t have to ponder none of that nor is my Church built upon “protesting” or “breaking off from” any other church!

Debating with non-Catholic Christians really makes me more Catholic!

Whether is with the anti-Catholics or with those non-Catholic Christians who don’t see us an “not” Christians, but who recognize our place in history even if they don’t beleive as we believe, I love exchanging ideas and beliefs.

 

[wisdomseeker]

wisdomseeker;3271624:

On top of all of that,
how many Jesuses were there to lead The Church?

Only one.

Why would He leave us different leaders then after He left to lead us in different directions?

There can only be one shephard of The Flock (not many different shephards). Some would insist that Jesus is The One Shephard…but since there are so many flocks (churches), which is the one

He’s the Shephard of?

Can one Shephard be the pastor of different flocks that contradict “how” they beleive in Him?



Gosh I love being Catholic!

I don’t have to ponder none of that nor is my Church built upon “protesting” or “breaking off from” any other church!

Debating with non-Catholic Christians really makes me more Catholic!

Whether is with the anti-Catholics or with those non-Catholic Christians who don’t see us an “not” Christians, but who recognize our place in history even if they don’t beleive as we believe, I love exchanging ideas and beliefs.

Yes, and we do know what happens when there are to many chiefs.
The concept of bedience in this new world has been long gone in the name of freedom. Some people no longer understand the position of authority. God takes both very seriously. and people fail to see that.

 

[2ndGen]

2ndGen;3271676:

Yes, and we do know what happens when there are to many chiefs.
The concept of bedience in this new world has been long gone in the name of freedom. Some people no longer understand the position of authority. God takes both very seriously. and people fail to see that.

The only thing worse than too many chiefs is no cheif at all.

 

[wisdomseeker]

wisdomseeker;3271739:

The only thing worse than too many chiefs is no cheif at all.

“Rome has spoken; the case is closed”
(Saint Augustine, Sermon 131:10)

And its citizens answer: AMEM! AMEN! AMEN!

 

[wisdomseeker]

wisdomseeker;3271739:

The only thing worse than too many chiefs is no cheif at all.

check out the forum of sola scripture.

 

[2ndGen]

2ndGen;3271760:

“Rome has spoken; the case is closed”
(Saint Augustine, Sermon 131:10)

And its citizens answer: AMEM! AMEN! AMEN!