Unstructured Thread...

[2ndGen]

yes. they were true faith when they were in communion with the chair of Peter. not anymore. by their claims they also consider themselves the police, the ones in charge to make sure that the christian faith is not corrupted by the roman church. ignoring the supremacy of the chair of peter.

Again, when you toss tradition, history and the authority instituted by Christ and replace it with the authority of men,
you can pretty much say anything without requiring any evidence, then refuse any evidence produced to you.

I love being Catholic!

I never have to wonder or stutter when asked to prove my faith!

 

[fbl9]

regarding post 351 by Isa Almisry stating the church changed the day we celebrate our Lord’s baptism from some day other than Jan6. i haven’t been around for that long a time but i never ever remember celebrating the Lord’s baptism on another day than Jan6…funny i didn’t know Alexandira was a church i am in communion with the Pope of the catholic church.

 

[2ndGen]

regarding post 351 by Isa Almisry stating the church changed the day we celebrate our Lord’s baptism from some day other than Jan6. i haven’t been around for that long a time but i never ever remember celebrating the Lord’s baptism on another day than Jan6…funny i didn’t know Alexandira was a church i am in communion with the Pope of the catholic church.

Imagine that…breaking communion and schisming because God continually reveals relative knowledge to His Church.

 

[2ndGen]

Oh yeah…

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Go Giants!

 

[VARC]

Of course not…that is the base of their religion.

They try to hijack our name,
our Bible,
our Traditions,
and even our Creed.



Imagine that, a religion that didn’t exist until the 11th century proclaiming to be the “true” faith.

A “religion that didn’t exist”? I have alraedy proven that the Roman church broke away from the Catholic Church when the Creed was altered. Your assertions are fallacious.

 

[VARC]

the first, being first in rank, chief, prime minister, chief, in charge, the highest- ranking Bishop, first in importance, principal, main one.

need more?

Okay wisdom back to you. I’ll dispute that Peter was “in charge” in the sense that the pope of Rome is in charge. The rest of your titles are open to interpretation. You may present your eveidence that Peter was “in charge”.

 

[2ndGen]

yes. they were true faith when they were in communion with the chair of Peter. not anymore. by their claims they also consider themselves the police, the ones in charge to make sure that the christian faith is not corrupted by the roman church. ignoring the supremacy of the chair of peter. they choose to ignore the facts. i never any president of any country go to the patriarchs for important advice but i have seen them going to the POPE.

I “appreciate” this picture.

 

[wisdomseeker]

“Vatican Council II recognized in its “Decree on the Catholic Eastern Churches,” “The holy Catholic Church, which is the Mystical Body of Christ, is made up of the faithful who are organically united in the Holy Spirit by the same faith, the same sacraments and the same government. They combine into different groups, which are held together by their hierarchy, and so form particular churches or rites. Between those churches there is such a wonderful bond of union that this variety in the Universal Church, so far from diminishing its unity, rather serves to emphasize it. For the Catholic Church wishes the traditions of each particular Church or Rite to remain whole and entire, and it likewise wishes to adapt its own way of life to the needs of different times and places” (No. 2). Although these Eastern Rites differ from the Western or Latin Rite in “rite” and liturgy, ecclesiastical discipline and Canon Law and spiritual traditions, they are fully part of the Roman Catholic Church under the leadership and pastoral care of the pope, the successor of St. Peter.”

Fr. Saunders

 

[wisdomseeker]

During the fifth century, the barbarian invasions crippled the western Roman Empire. Rome itself declined in stature. Even though the pope was still the bishop of Rome, the great early Church councils were all convoked in cities of the east — Nicea, Constantinople, Ephesus and Chalcedon. A rivalry over power, authority, and prestige developed between the pope, bishop of Rome, and the patriarch of Constantinople. In the mind of the patriarch, since Rome had declined in stature and since Constantinople was now the viable capital of the Roman Empire (or what was left of it), he thought he should be recognized as the head of the Church — in a sense, “New Rome” should be the home of the pope. From the pope’s perspective, he was the successor of St. Peter, bishop of Rome, who held the keys of the Kingdom. Theological issues also became subject to debate, especially the adding of the filioque clause to the Creed, i.e. that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. To make a long story short, the mounting tensions finally exploded in 1054 when both the patriarch and the pope issued bulls of excommunication against each other.

The problem with that is that the patriarch has no authority over the pope; therefore, he cannot excommunicate the pope.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Since Constantine had made Constantinople the capital of the Roman Empire in the East and called it “New Rome,” the Council of Chalcedon (451) eventually elevated it as a patriarchate with jurisdiction over the territories of Asia Minor and Thrace. The New Order of the Patriarchs then became in descending order Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem. Keep in mind that the patriarchs are considered equal in rank even though they may have a precedence of honor. Moreover, just to underscore an important point, even though the bishop of Rome is a patriarch, as pope he has supreme authority and governance over the whole Church.

 

[VARC]

I “appreciate” this picture.

How about this picture…

deceptioninthechurch.com/popekiss.html

 

[wisdomseeker]

As the Church hierarchy became more stable, the position of Patriarch was recognized. A Patriarch had the highest ecclesiastical dignity after the Pope and had jurisdiction over a particular territory. The term Patriarch comes from the Greek word for the leaders of the twelve tribes of Israel. Strictly speaking, “by the term ‘Eastern Patriarch’ is meant the bishop who has jurisdiction over all the bishops, metropolitans (archbishops) not excepted, clergy and people of his own territory or rite, according to the rules of canon law and without prejudice to the primacy of the Roman Pontiff” (“Decree on the Eastern Churches,” No. 7). Therefore, the patriarch is the father and head of his patriarchate.

 

[VARC]

Since Constantine had made Constantinople the capital of the Roman Empire in the East and called it “New Rome,” the Council of Chalcedon (451) eventually elevated it as a patriarchate with jurisdiction over the territories of Asia Minor and Thrace. The New Order of the Patriarchs then became in descending order Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem. Keep in mind that the patriarchs are considered equal in rank even though they may have a precedence of honor. Moreover, just to underscore an important point, even though the bishop of Rome is a patriarch, as pope he has supreme authority and governance over the whole Church.

Not according to the Church of the Fathers, the Orthodox Catholic Church. I submit Canon VI of the Council of Ephesus

The Bishop of Alexandria shall have jurisdiction over Egypt, Libya, and Pentapolis. As also the Roman bishop over those subject to Rome. So, too, the Bishop of Antioch and the rest over those who are under them. If any be a bishop contrary to the judgment of the Metropolitan, let him be no bishop. Provided it be in accordance with the canons by the suffrage of the majority, if three object, their objection shall be of no force.

The bishop of Alexandria has jurisdiction over Egypt and Libya. Rome does not. Rome has her own jurisdiction over an unspecified territory but, according to this canon, whatever authority Rome wields in its territory, Alexandria wields in Egypt This debunks the myth of universal papal jurisdiction in the Church.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Attempts were made to reunite these Orthodox Churches with the Roman Catholic Church. At the Council of Florence (1438-45) which both Emperor John VIII and Patriarch Joseph II of Constantinople attended, the theological questions were debated. The Eastern Orthodox Churches agreed to accept the teaching that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, even though they were not required to add this phrase to the Creed. While the agreement was signed and the Churches officially reunited, a large segment of the regular clergy disdained this action. Moreover, when the Moslems conquered Constantinople in 1453, Sultan Mohammed II appointed Gennadios II as patriarch of Constantinople, who in turn repudiated the decrees of the Council of Florence. Once again, the two Churches were officially in schism. The domination of Islam over the territory of the East made future reunification virtually impossible.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

the first, being first in rank, chief, prime minister, chief, in charge, the highest- ranking Bishop, first in importance, principal, main one.

need more?

Yes, minus infallibility and universal jurisdiction, would that be primacy to you? All the things you list don’t require either.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Yes, minus infallibility and universal jurisdiction, would that be primacy to you? All the things you list don’t require either.

do you read what you right?
no wonder. i can blame you. i understand.
infallibility has nothing to do with this. infallible means when the pope speaks from the chair of Peter in the matter of faith and morals he is protected from err because the Holy Spirit protects the faith of the Church. as a matter fact i believe the last time the pope spoke from the chair of Peter was maybe 1950s.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Of course not…that is the base of their religion.

They try to hijack our name,
our Bible,
our Traditions,
and even our Creed.



Imagine that, a religion that didn’t exist until the 11th century proclaiming to be the “true” faith.

I see you dumped St. Augustine for Optatus. Was it VARC correction of the words you were putting in Augustine’s mouth?

He’s interesting. Makes much of the “chair” and the line of bishops in Rome and then lists an INCORRECT line of bishops in Rome after your quote. So the chair is important, but not getting the correct person who sat in it.

newadvent.org/cathen/11262b.htm

I discussed him at length here already.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I see you dumped St. Augustine for Optatus. Was it VARC correction of the words you were putting in Augustine’s mouth?

He’s interesting. Makes much of the “chair” and the line of bishops in Rome and then lists an INCORRECT line of bishops in Rome after your quote. So the chair is important, but not getting the correct person who sat in it.

newadvent.org/cathen/11262b.htm

I discussed him at length here already.

i heard someone saying how dangerous it is for anyone to be out of the CC for they are in danger of being subjects to all kinds of false teachings impairing their understand of the Divine.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

regarding post 351 by Isa Almisry stating the church changed the day we celebrate our Lord’s baptism from some day other than Jan6. i haven’t been around for that long a time but i never ever remember celebrating the Lord’s baptism on another day than Jan6…funny i didn’t know Alexandira was a church i am in communion with the Pope of the catholic church.

Unless your Orthodox Catholic, you’re not. As shown earlier up the thread. The one is Alexandria is the patriarch who first was given the title.

As for Epiphany, 3 Kings has obscrured the Baptism. But:

As its name suggests, the Epiphany had its origin in the Eastern Church. There exists indeed a homily of Hippolytus [Rome, 2nd cent., saint and anti-pope!] to which (in one manuscript only) is affixed the lemma ieis ta hagia theophaneia [not epiphaneia: Kellner]; it is throughout addressed to one about to be baptized, and deals only with the Sacrament of Baptism.
newadvent.org/cathen/05504c.htm

 

[wisdomseeker]

How about this picture…

deceptioninthechurch.com/popekiss.html

I understand your position on this. So Jesus was criticized for eating with sinners. for having a woman drying his feet with her hair. Jesus was condenmened by Jews for pretty everything He did an said. to affirm we know everything about God is blasphemous. we dont know the mind of God. we dont know exactly how God works. as a matter fact we know very little about God. for God does what he will.