Unstructured Thread...

[wisdomseeker]

I have no idea what you are talking about.
St Peter was in Antioch first. Did you know that? Did you read the quotes I posted?

you stil did not answer my question.

 

[Mickey]

you stil did not answer my question.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I have no idea what you are talking about.
St Peter was in Antioch first. Did you know that? Did you read the quotes I posted?

lets see how peter was special:
first to be called by Jesus.
the only one to walk on the waters with Jesus
the first to know that Jesus was the son of the living God
the only one to always defend Jesus in all things
the only one to die on the cross like Jesus. upside down at his own request.
the one who came in defense of Paul.

do you need more?

 

[2ndGen]

There were five Patriarchates: Rome, Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem, and Constantinople. The Catholics have Rome and the Orthodox have the other four. One may ask, “who broke away from whom”?

 

[wisdomseeker]

i know you are.
how do you explain that the keys were given to all the apostles when only pete made the confession as you say?

 

[2ndGen]

Straw man. The Eastern Catholic Church (in communion with Rome has 23 sui juris Churches. You have also listed uncanonical/schismatic Churches of which Rome also has Her share.

That’s your answer?

“you did it too!”?

I’ll ask you again…“which” of the hundred or so Churches that call themselves “Orthodox” is The Orthodox Church?

Simple question.

 

[2ndGen]

I am not slamming. Why do you continue to be uncharitable.

 

[Mickey]

So when The Pope met with the Patriarch of Constantinople, he was only meeting with the leader of that particular group and that Patriarch didn’t represent the rest of the Orthodox Churches?

Correct. There is no supreme infallible pope in the Orthodox Church.

which is the one we would’ve had to have broken off from? )

Four hold the Holy Orthodox (which means correct) faith. And one went their own way.

I also knows that camels in The Bible spit at people.

Cute.

Of course The Apostles were leaders…they were “pastors” of the flock, but all “pastors” were under one Shephard…Peter. (John 21).

You mean Jesus Christ.

Think about it, if there wasn’t a head shephard post Christ and they were all leaders when Jesus commissioned them, then that means that they were equal leaders to Christ?

All were given equal authority by Jesus Christ–to bind and to loose. St Peter had the primacy of honour.

Again, you’d have us believe that Jesus’ Church never passed 300 Million Christians at best and that the 1.3 Billion Christians that act as “one” (the largest in The World) are “less” likely to be the result of Jesus’ work.

Numbers do not prove validity. The path is narrow.

There still isn’t any such thing as “The Roman Catholic Church”. It is still called The Catholic Church (as it was called since way back in 110 AD).

Nice try. St Ignatius uses the word “catholic” as meaning universal. The word is still in the Orthodox Creed (without the innovation of the Filioque of course).

Why have “Bishops” if you don’t believe in the need for any authoritative figure between you and God (which is the central argument for the Orthodox Church or at least, yours)?

The authority for the Holy Orthodox Church is Jesus Christ. Why do you not get this? The bishops guide the Church through Apostolic succession.

What can a “Bishop” do that you can’t do for yourself since you don’t believe in religious leaders?)

Please do not start your lack of charity again. You know quite well that the Holy Orthodox Church is guided by Her bishops through Apostolic succession with Christ as Her Head.

If I’m wrong, then He will because He knows my heart when I stated that.

Is this what you call “invincible ignorance”?

What set the tone for The Reformation (which by the way,failed to “reform” The Catholic Church) .

Oh contrare! Remember Trent?

was the errancy of a man…Martin Luther along with Kings who wanted to rape The Church of her possesions.

That’s it, blame it all on Martin.

It was Satan’s work that The “Reformers” sacked Rome, murdering 8,000 innoccent women and children by German Mercenaries that touched off wars between Chrisitans. None of that was “of God”. And that’s a “good case” for you?

Everything evil is Satan’s work.

As for Holy Orthodoxy never having to deal with schisms and divisions in their churches, why are there so many different Orthodox Churches now?

All canonical Orthodox Churches profess the same (true) faith.

Again, will the “real” Orthodox Church please stand up?

This silly little phrase does nothing for your case.

wayoflife.org/fbns/eastern.htm

Is this how you research the Holy Orthodox Church–from websites full of errors written by Western reformers? LOL!

*. *

 

[2ndGen]

He is meeting with the Patriarch of Constantinople, not the supreme infallible Pope of the Orthodox Church.

 

[Mickey]

i know you are.
how do you explain that the keys were given to all the apostles when only pete made the confession as you say?

Pete?

St Cyprian of Carthage

Certainly the other Apostles also were what Peter was, endued with an equal fellowship both of honour and power; but a commencement is made from unity, that the Church may be set before as one; which one Church, in the Song of Songs, doth the Holy Spirit design and name in the Person of our Lord: My dove, My spotless one, is but one; she is the only one of her mother, elect of her that bare her (Cant. 9:6) (A Library of the Fathers of the Holy Catholic Church (Oxford: Parker, 1844), Cyprian, On The Unity of the Church 3, p. 133).

The early Christian concept, best expressed in the third century by Cyprian of Carthage, according to which the ‘see of Peter’ belongs, in each local church, to the bishop, remains the longstanding and obvious pattern for the Byzantines. Gregory of Nyssa, for example, can write that Jesus ‘through Peter gave to the bishops the keys of heavenly honors.’ Pseudo–Dionysius when he mentions the ‘hierarchs’—i.e., the bishops of the early Church—refers immediately to the image of Peter…Peter succession is seen wherever the right faith is preserved, and, as such, it cannot be localized geographically or monopolized by a single church or individual
(John Meyendorff, Byzantine Theology (New York: Fordham University, 1974), p. 98).

 

[Mickey]

I’ll ask you again…“which” of the hundred or so Churches that call themselves “Orthodox” is The Orthodox Church?

I answered it. All canonical Orthodox Churches are “The Holy Orthodox Church”. I will not answer it again.

 

[Mickey]

And this has anything to do with how we saved your hides how?

LOL! That’s a good one!

Yes or no…after The Orthodox broke off from us, “who” did they call to come rescue them from the Muslims?

I’m sure you do not want to use the 4th crusade as a defense for Roman Catholicism. I believe JPII already apologized for that.

Without us, where would the Orthodox be today?

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif

I talk about good that we did to save you and you point out the warts on your heroes faces?

As you said, it was the work of Satan. But I was happy when JPII apologized.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Pete?

St Cyprian of Carthage

Certainly the other Apostles also were what Peter was, endued with an equal fellowship both of honour and power; but a commencement is made from unity, that the Church may be set before as one; which one Church, in the Song of Songs, doth the Holy Spirit design and name in the Person of our Lord: My dove, My spotless one, is but one; she is the only one of her mother, elect of her that bare her (Cant. 9:6) (A Library of the Fathers of the Holy Catholic Church (Oxford: Parker, 1844), Cyprian, On The Unity of the Church 3, p. 133).

The early Christian concept, best expressed in the third century by Cyprian of Carthage, according to which the ‘see of Peter’ belongs, in each local church, to the bishop, remains the longstanding and obvious pattern for the Byzantines. Gregory of Nyssa, for example, can write that Jesus ‘through Peter gave to the bishops the keys of heavenly honors.’ Pseudo–Dionysius when he mentions the ‘hierarchs’—i.e., the bishops of the early Church—refers immediately to the image of Peter…Peter succession is seen wherever the right faith is preserved, and, as such, it cannot be localized geographically or monopolized by a single church or individual
(John Meyendorff, Byzantine Theology (New York: Fordham University, 1974), p. 98).

Mickey, Mickey, my beloved brother.
pay attention. what you are showing me is the writings of your church.
the quotes i gave you were quotes from the fathers of the Church way before the schism.

'the Pope is the successor to Peter, St. Thomas Aquinas says, “The real character of rank heresy consists in lack of submission to the divine teaching authority in the head of the Church.”

 

[Mickey]

So then there isn’t “one” Orthodox Church, but many different Orthodox Church"es"

This has been answered. Now you are being purposefully rude.

I’m glad that you admit that your leaders teach in error.

Yet another ignorant statement.

How can one follow a man that they don’t believe is guided by The Holy Spirit and that teaches wrongly?

More ignorance.

Whatever happened to the The Holy Spirit guiding the Church into all truth?

It continues in the Holy Orthodox Church.

Well, maybe not the Orthodox Church because they don’t believe that The Holy Spirit

If you are finished with all of your rude, ignorant, and uncharitable statements, perhaps you can respond to my questions about purgatory. Otherwise I must shake the dust from my sandals and leave this place. Your bitterness is not edifying.

 

[Mickey]

Mickey, Mickey, my beloved brother.
pay attention. what you are showing me is the writings of your church.
the quotes i gave you were quotes from the fathers of the Church way before the schism.

'the Pope is the successor to Peter, St. Thomas Aquinas says, “The real character of rank heresy consists in lack of submission to the divine teaching authority in the head of the Church.”

St Cyprian is a Saint in your Church also. If I had the time, I’d post dozens more–pre-schism.

Did you know that St Thomas Aquinas denied the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception?

 

[wisdomseeker]

St Cyprian is a Saint in your Church also. If I had the time, I’d post dozens more–pre-schism.

Did you know that St Thomas Aquinas denied the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception?

do you believe on the immaculate conception?

 

[Mickey]

do you believe on the immaculate conception?

It is an innovation. There was no such doctrine when the Churches were one.

 

[wisdomseeker]

LOL! That’s a good one!
I’m sure you do not want to use the 4th crusade as a defense for Roman Catholicism. I believe JPII already apologized for that.

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif

As you said, it was the work of Satan. But I was happy when JPII apologized.

me too.
it takes a true church to do such a thing. when so many has done so much evil to our Church no one has ever apologized for anything and i dont expect them to.

 

[2ndGen]

Correct. There is no supreme infallible pope in the Orthodox Church.

 

[2ndGen]

I answered it. All canonical Orthodox Churches are “The Holy Orthodox Church”. I will not answer it again.

Which is The “Canonical” Church?

You’re refusing to name “one” Church.

Why?

You haven’t answered my question.

My question was “which one”… one, uno, 1.

Name that Church.

In the immortal words of Highlander…“There can be only one!”

Pick one.

Heck, close your eyes and throw a dart at a map and choose the closest one.

Which one of the hundreds of Orthodox Churches is the one that was founded in 1054?