Unsure About Christian Defenses of Theism (Help)

[InSearchofTruth]

Hello,

I will try to make this as short as possible. I am a new member here and I hope that over the course of some time we can get as much done about our spiritual development as we can. I am at an interesting period in my life and I was hoping some helpful Christians could assist me. I am here to ask a question. But to first ask that question I want to ask it in context. Last night a great storm came to my city. This sort of thing has happened before and I am usually not concerned about it, but yesterday the meteorologist said that this storm was headed directly over my city and that there is a high chance of tornadoes. I began to get frightened whenever I could see how serious he was about this. Still, I did nothing. About thirty minutes later, as projected, a hard bout of rain came with hail following closely. It was the size of grape fruit. I still wasn’t very concerned. I was watching TV as the chaos went on around me, and then he said it. A tornado has been spotted less than five miles from my home. I was scared now. Outside, the rain was hard as ever. As I was watching, however, the TV went out and outside of the house, everything became deathly quiet. I reasoned that I must be in the eye of the storm. I was very scared by this time and I had taken it upon myself to sit in the closet. As the deathly quiet continued, I knew that this was the storm that could produce tornadoes that kill me. (I later learned that this same storm produced twenty two in a neighboring state)

I was in my closet, frightened. I was confronted with a reality that I may very well die soon. As the eye of the storm came over and everything was quiet, I gave up. I thought “I’m about to die…but what happens next?” I was afraid. I was taught, as an Atheist, that once you die, you just die and that’s it. “But what if the religions are right…am I headed to hell?” My family, who is more religious than I, told me that I should pray. And you know what? I did. I prayed to God that he would protect me and if I should die, he let me near him. I asked to be saved. I felt comforted from this mere act.

I, as an atheist, prayed to God. What atheist does that? The storm passed a few minutes later, leaving no damage to our house. Winds in a neighboring city destroyed much of the town.

I woke up today, confused. My whole world view was shaken. My family said that I should go to a church. (Secretly, I’ve always been biased towards the Catholics. Catholicism made much more sense than the rest)

So now I am at a cross roads. I am confronted with believing or not believing…and I feel like Pascal’s wager is playing a big part.

So, in this confusion, I have some questions to ask of theism.

How does one believe in a God when there is no testable, touchable, visionary, evidence of his existence?

How does one reconcile theism with the evidence of Abiogenesis, Evolution, and Big bang?

How does one believe in a God when there has been so many scientific revelations with evidence behind them?

I wouldn’t mind being a theist or even a Christian, but I have some serious issues here: I believe that there is very little testable evidence for his existence. I believe in Abiogenesis, Big bang, and Evolution. I also believe things need to be tested. This puts me at odds with much of theism…right?

I hope you guys understand.

Thanks.

 

[PrayHarder]

I wouldn’t mind being a theist or even a Christian, but I have some serious issues here: I believe that there is very little testable evidence for his existence. I believe in Abiogenesis, Big bang, and Evolution. I also believe things need to be tested. This puts me at odds with much of theism…right?

Good news, I believe in the Big Bang and evolution too (I’ve never heard of abiogenesis… I’ll have to look that one up). Guess what? Most Catholics believe in those and don’t believe that theology and science are incompatible. There could have been a big bang and there can be evolution AND there can be God. I don’t have all the research and explanation for it at my finger tips, but you should be able to do a quick search of either these boards or the web to find some good answers.

 

[InSearchofTruth]

Good news, I believe in the Big Bang and evolution too (I’ve never heard of abiogenesis… I’ll have to look that one up). Guess what? Most Catholics believe in those and don’t believe that theology and science are incompatible. There could have been a big bang and there can be evolution AND there can be God. I don’t have all the research and explanation for it at my finger tips, but you should be able to do a quick search of either these boards or the web to find some good answers.

Really? Really?

Wow. I knew the Catholic church was pretty all right with Evolution, but the big bang?

So you can agree with science and also be a great Catholic? That’s wonderful. Hopefully that position doesn’t change within the next few years.

 

[Deum_quaerens]

Praise, honour and glory be to God, through Christ Our Lord!

Please recall that God, not being quantifiably measurable nor qualitatively testable, is by very definition outside the scope of science.

I think that you will find the links in this post to be of great interest.

Like most Catholics, I believe in the Big Bang, the very occurrence whereof appears to me a most salient argument for the existence of God.

Like most Catholics, furthermore, I believe in evolution, and as you will read and hear in the above links, the fact that it can have brought about mankind despite the incomprehensible odds against a life-friendly Universe is a powerful reason to believe in God.

Be assured of my prayers, and may God bless you.

 

[Deum_quaerens]

I knew the Catholic church was pretty all right with Evolution, but the big bang?

The Big Bang theory was proposed by a Roman Catholic priest, Georges Lemaître.

Fred Hoyle, troubled by the philosophical implications of a beginning to the Universe, put forth, along with Thomas Gold and Hermann Bondi, the rival Steady State theory, which posited an eternal Universe (therefore precluding a Creator) and dominated among cosmologists until the discovery of cosmic microwave background radiation in 1965.

 

[dzheremi]

Hello,

I will try to make this as short as possible. I am a new member here and I hope that over the course of some time we can get as much done about our spiritual development as we can. I am at an interesting period in my life and I was hoping some helpful Christians could assist me. I am here to ask a question. But to first ask that question I want to ask it in context. Last night a great storm came to my city. This sort of thing has happened before and I am usually not concerned about it, but yesterday the meteorologist said that this storm was headed directly over my city and that there is a high chance of tornadoes. I began to get frightened whenever I could see how serious he was about this. Still, I did nothing. About thirty minutes later, as projected, a hard bout of rain came with hail following closely. It was the size of grape fruit. I still wasn’t very concerned. I was watching TV as the chaos went on around me, and then he said it. A tornado has been spotted less than five miles from my home. I was scared now. Outside, the rain was hard as ever. As I was watching, however, the TV went out and outside of the house, everything became deathly quiet. I reasoned that I must be in the eye of the storm. I was very scared by this time and I had taken it upon myself to sit in the closet. As the deathly quiet continued, I knew that this was the storm that could produce tornadoes that kill me. (I later learned that this same storm produced twenty two in a neighboring state)

I was in my closet, frightened. I was confronted with a reality that I may very well die soon. As the eye of the storm came over and everything was quiet, I gave up. I thought “I’m about to die…but what happens next?” I was afraid. I was taught, as an Atheist, that once you die, you just die and that’s it. “But what if the religions are right…am I headed to hell?” My family, who is more religious than I, told me that I should pray. And you know what? I did. I prayed to God that he would protect me and if I should die, he let me near him. I asked to be saved. I felt comforted from this mere act.

I, as an atheist, prayed to God. What atheist does that? The storm passed a few minutes later, leaving no damage to our house. Winds in a neighboring city destroyed much of the town.

I woke up today, confused. My whole world view was shaken. My family said that I should go to a church. (Secretly, I’ve always been biased towards the Catholics. Catholicism made much more sense than the rest)

So now I am at a cross roads. I am confronted with believing or not believing…and I feel like Pascal’s wager is playing a big part.

So, in this confusion, I have some questions to ask of theism.

How does one believe in a God when there is no testable, touchable, visionary, evidence of his existence?

How does one reconcile theism with the evidence of Abiogenesis, Evolution, and Big bang?

How does one believe in a God when there has been so many scientific revelations with evidence behind them?

I wouldn’t mind being a theist or even a Christian, but I have some serious issues here: I believe that there is very little testable evidence for his existence. I believe in Abiogenesis, Big bang, and Evolution. I also believe things need to be tested. This puts me at odds with much of theism…right?

I hope you guys understand.

Thanks.

That is an amazing story. Thank God that you are safe.

As to your questions…these are the eternal questions of this life, and each one of them could not be answered to anyones’ satisfaction even with a million years in which to answer them. How can we believe in God with so much scientific evidence out there? (presumably that “disproves” or at least casts great doubt in your mind about the reality of God)

It’s an interesting question, a valid question…and an unanswerable question. For me, it seems that the older I get the less comforted I am by any claims of scientific or philosophical validity in answer to spiritual questions. You could, for instance, if given enough time, probably come up with a purely “scientific” reason why you survived the storm when so much around you did not. But what then? Would this quiet your soul? Perhaps it would, but you would still be left with the much bigger question to answer for yourself as to why you were so disquieted by the idea that God should play such a direct role in your life, completely against what your “rational” (scientific) brain tells you can/should/does happen. Which part of your experience has primacy over you: What you were able to reason away after the fact, or what you were so mystified by during the experience, and remained mystified by afterwards for at least long enough to post of your experience on this board, before your rational brain kicked in to bring you back to the secular world, where things don’t exist unless men in white lab coats tell you that they do?

I can’t answer any of your questions, but these are some of things I would think seriously about if I were you. It is not as easy as saying “Well, you can believe in God and the Big Bang because _____”. Man’s experience of God is always greater than anything science could ever explain, so we take from science what is faith-affirming (e.g., what does not contradict faith), and leave the rest.

 

[ParkerD]

Dear In Search of Truth,
What an experience you had! I appreciate you having shared it, and shared your questions. You will notice that some of the people who visit this website are from different religions. I hope you will feel OK about my sending you this short message.

You received an answer to your sincere prayer. I think that should lead you in a direction of understanding. The Bible talks about humankind needing to learn to have faith. One of the reasons I believe this is true (besides the many personal answers to prayers I’ve received, and the comforting witness from God that He lives and that He loves us) is that we need to learn to have faith to learn how God functions in the universe. He doesn’t force or cooerce, or try to overwhelm us with His superior knowledge. He lets us learn at our own pace, sometimes with difficult experiences, but always with infinite patience and love on His part. He could reveal Himself to everyone if He wanted to, but that would take away our opportunity to learn through living by faith.

Whether evolution and the Big Bang and amniogenesis are true methods God used to create the universe and to form man and woman, are questions I could give my opinion about, but it would just be an opinion since I wasn’t there and the Bible isn’t clear as to how God made the earth and formed Adam and Eve. (Amniogenesis is still far from being proven.)

I suggest you spend some quiet time reading the New Testament, starting perhaps with the account of Christ’s birth in Luke 2, then Matthew 5-7, then John 1-5, then finish the Book of Matthew and the Book of John. Pray for God to give you understanding and peace. I promise that you will feel a sense of peace about what you read, and begin to feel that Christ really did come to the earth as our Savior. His wisdom about how to live life happily through peaceful, loving relationships is truly greater inspiration than a mortal man could give to the world. Further, if you pray about whether Jesus lives and loves you, you will feel a peaceful calm assurance that He does.

May God bless you in your search.

 

[InSearchofTruth]

Thanks, ParkerD.

I was afraid. It was the first time I had actually been in the face of death and realized it. I realized that I needed to pick sides on believing and I really wondered if atheism would ultimately help after I die.

 

[ParkerD]

Thanks, ParkerD.

I was afraid. It was the first time I had actually been in the face of death and realized it. I realized that I needed to pick sides on believing and I really wondered if atheism would ultimately help after I die.

In Search of Truth,
I suppose you realize that you have been given a rare opportunity to re-evaluate your life as you felt that perhaps death is not the end of being. (I assure you that it’s not.) You have the opportunity to study the Biblical side of the question with a heart that no longer says “death must be the end, or else life after death could be proven.”

It’s important to understand that God will not prove His existence or the existence of life after death to mortals, but that if we have faith in Christ we will have sensory feelings–a calm assurance, or a powerful sense of inspiration that enlightens our mind–that confirm to us that He lives and loves us personally. A person then needs to build on that beginning of faith, just like we nurture all good things in life to build them into something that can really make a difference in our life.

May you continue to feel an urgency to build on this beginning, so that it can indeed make a difference in your life. This is a significant weekend (Easter) to start that process. Peace to you in doing so.

 

[AirLiner]

So, in this confusion, I have some questions to ask of theism.

How does one believe in a God when there is no testable, touchable, visionary, evidence of his existence?

How does one reconcile theism with the evidence of Abiogenesis, Evolution, and Big bang?

How does one believe in a God when there has been so many scientific revelations with evidence behind them?

There is something very important you should know. There is a lot of strong evidence for the existence of God. You are thinking that Catholicism is a fideistic religion or a religion that seperates faith and reason. Fideism is condemned in the Bible itself; you can use reason to prove that God exists (Romans 1:20). If you study Catholicism and its history you will learn that an extraordinary amount of emphasis is placed on philosophy and reason. If you enter the Catholic Church thinking that its a fideist religion than you are setting up a weak basis for your new beliefs.

Extraordinary philosophical works have been written supporting Theism and Catholicism. The best examples would have to be the writings of St. Thomas of Aquinas. I highly suggest you read them. You must remember Theism is a very sound idea and backed up by solid reasoning and evidence.

Abiogenesis does not contradict the existence of God. Where does the Bible state that it couldn’t have happened? Even St. Augustine who lived in the 4th and 5th centuries proposed that Genesis was an allegory. As new discoveries were made we realized that the allegory idea was supported by science. It is also worth knowing that the theories for abiogenesis aren’t even that good. There’s more than 10, probably because the evidence has been destroyed. So it may or may have not happened. Maybe God directly created life or guided the process. Either way it has nothing against Theism.

As for the Big Bang, it doesn’t even explain how the universe came to be. Through observations that the universe is expanding, scientists came to the conclusion that during the first moments of the universe a tiny infinitely dense “cosmic egg” expanded rapidly thus producing the universe. However as to how that matter got here in the first place…well that’s known as the Cosmological Argument. Beware, there is alot of atheistic sophistry out there trying to prove how the universe came out of nothing. I don’t want to refute all of it right now, but trust me its all nonsense.

It doesn’t matter how many scientific revelations revelations there have been. Each of them merely brings us closer to understanding God’s creation.

You also mentioned that you believe things need to be tested. This does NOT put you at odds with Theism. Heres a quote from a college sponsored website about evolution to clear up any misconceptions about science and testing.

The misconception here is that science is limited to controlled experiments that are conducted in laboratories by people in white lab coats. Actually, much of science is accomplished by gathering evidence from the real world and inferring how things work.

evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/misconceps/IIFnotscience.shtml
This is how Theism works. Through observations, reasonable inferences are made leading to the fact that God exists.

Tragically these days people have a stereotype of religion. That its all fideistic and is in opposition or exists independent of reason. However that is completely false when it comes to Catholicism. I cannot emphasise enough that **everything in Roman Catholicism is supported by good, solid reasonable arguments. **